Gordon Hayward 2020: I'm standing here in pieces and you're having delusions of grandeur!

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lexrageorge

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Leaving for the birth of his child does not mean he would miss 3-4 weeks. He returned to the bubble to do some serious work with the training staff, which seems unlikely if he was planning to return for only a handful of games.
 

DGreenwood

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When I saw this first video of Gordon on Friday I thought he looked pretty fluid in his movements and was hopeful he'd be back early in the series (game 3 was my guess).
View: https://twitter.com/JeffZillgitt/status/1304573736981598211?s=20


But when I saw this second video my heart sank a bit. His movement looks much more mechanical and I'm afraid he may not be as close as we were hoping.
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1304574362406858752?s=20

I just wanted to share in case, like me, others had seen the first video but not the second. Hopefully the second video was when he first started shooting and the first was after he'd loosened up and was feeling better.
 
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DJnVa

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Agreed. The current starting five is firing on all cylinders while Hayward hasn't played in a month and he isn't 100%. Hayward's role should be clear, it's to supplement what the team has been doing through the first two rounds and make them deeper. This is an easy decision and Hayward should have no problem understanding that.
It all depends on how the series stands when he's ready. If Heat are up 2-0 and Smart is 4-16 from three, then maybe they try something different. If Celtics are up 2-0 then you keep rolling.
 

DGreenwood

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I've been thinking about this a lot for some reason. I agree that Game 3 is probably the earliest we'll see him, but I think a lot depends on how the series is going. If we're struggling I think we'll see him as soon as he can play. If things are going well I could see them giving him more time with an eye toward having the best GH possible late in the series and/or in the finals.
 
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NomarsFool

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I've been thinking about this a lot for some reason. I agree that Game 3 is probably the earliest we'll see him, but I think a lot depends on how the series is going. If we're struggling I think we'll see him as soon as he can play. If things are going well I could see them giving him more time with an eye toward having the best GH possible late in the series and/or in the finals.
In an alternative universe where the Celtics fall behind 3-0, he's definitely going to play in Game 4. But, that's not going to happen here, so when we are up 3-1 maybe we'll see him come in to help close it out :)
 

Double Down Trent

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How long does it usually take a player to get back into rhythm after an injury like that? Seems like a tough assignment to jump right into the middle of an ECF series. Ecstatic to get him back but wonder how helpful he'll be in the initial couple games.
 

NomarsFool

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I think even getting him into a game for 10 minutes at a time would be helpful both to winning that game, and also getting him back in game shape. We definitely need him for the Finals!
 

oumbi

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How long does it usually take a player to get back into rhythm after an injury like that? Seems like a tough assignment to jump right into the middle of an ECF series. Ecstatic to get him back but wonder how helpful he'll be in the initial couple games.
Do you think a Gordon Hayward coming back from a month off due to the ankle injury after playing in 52 games this season with the team will be no better, or worse, than 10 to 15 minutes of Ojeleye?
 

lovegtm

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For the few who haven't seen/heard, Robyn posted on IG that Hayward will be in the bubble for the duration.
 

NomarsFool

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I was so nervous clicking on this thread expecting to see "Ankle not responding well and will miss tonight"
 

128

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Hayward became a father again today.

Now win tonight.
Gotta admit, I feel for the guy, even if he's incredibly well-paid. Let's say the C's win this series and the Finals go seven games. That's, what, almost a month without seeing/holding his son?
 

luckiestman

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Gotta admit, I feel for the guy, even if he's incredibly well-paid. Let's say the C's win this series and the Finals go seven games. That's, what, almost a month without seeing/holding his son?
Can’t the family clear the bubble protocol?
 

128

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No truth to the rumor he named his son “Frontrim” in honor of his performance tonight
14 points (on 4-for-9 shooting), 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 turnover, plus-8 in 30 minutes.

On the list of the Celtics' many problems in Game 5, Hayward is near the bottom.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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14 points (on 4-for-9 shooting), 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 turnover, plus-8 in 30 minutes.

On the list of the Celtics' many problems in Game 5, Hayward is near the bottom.
I posted at halftime. In the 1H he was horrific front rimming every open look.
 

dhellers

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14 points (on 4-for-9 shooting), 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 turnover, plus-8 in 30 minutes.

On the list of the Celtics' many problems in Game 5, Hayward is near the bottom.
But is he a strength, or just someone who can eat minutes. I am not convinced he can make an impact when it matters.
 

NomarsFool

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I think so far he's shown that he can eliminate (or at least greatly reduce) a negative (Semi), but at this point we need him to be much more positive (some of that pre-ankle Hayward).
 

bigq

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But is he a strength, or just someone who can eat minutes. I am not convinced he can make an impact when it matters.
I see Ojeley as a minute eater. Hayward is a huge upgrade over Semi coming off the bench. Much better than just a minute eater.
 

128

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But is he a strength, or just someone who can eat minutes. I am not convinced he can make an impact when it matters.
If 14 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and only 1 turnover in 30 minutes is not more than "eating minutes," I'm not sure what to tell you. Would that Smart had been half as efficient in Game 4.
 

djbayko

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I see Ojeley as a minute eater. Hayward is a huge upgrade over Semi coming off the bench. Much better than just a minute eater.
Yeah, and he takes care of the ball which is generally a problem on this team. When he has the ball I’m never worried that he’s going to do something stupid with it.
 
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dhellers

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If 14 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and only 1 turnover in 30 minutes is not more than "eating minutes," I'm not sure what to tell you. Would that Smart had been half as efficient in Game 4.
Perhaps eating minutes is too harsh. But is he an impact player? In particular: he seems tentative; turning down shots he really should be taking.
I don't see much in the way of making defensive stops, pulling down rebounds in traffic, etc. Not that he is making egregious mistakes, but where is the impact?

I am thinking of Theis today, who was noticeable on the defensive end. Do you see much of that from GH.

As much as Smart can be frustrating, he can and does impose his will on a game. Which means making plays that are difficult and impactful.

GH did show some initiative and competence late in Friday's game, with his patented floaters etc. IF that GH can be consistent, then he is real threat.
I HOPE to see that. I think it could happen consistently if team energy is flowing (that is, if he isn't the one expected to lead the charge)
 

lovegtm

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Perhaps eating minutes is too harsh. But is he an impact player? In particular: he seems tentative; turning down shots he really should be taking.
I don't see much in the way of making defensive stops, pulling down rebounds in traffic, etc. Not that he is making egregious mistakes, but where is the impact?

I am thinking of Theis today, who was noticeable on the defensive end. Do you see much of that from GH.

As much as Smart can be frustrating, he can and does impose his will on a game. Which means making plays that are difficult and impactful.

GH did show some initiative and competence late in Friday's game, with his patented floaters etc. IF that GH can be consistent, then he is real threat.
I HOPE to see that. I think it could happen consistently if team energy is flowing (that is, if he isn't the one expected to lead the charge)
Hayward is much better than the best options after him, but he’s playing like a 15M/year Iggy-on-GSW type of guy. That’s fine, and may be enough, but he’s clearly limited post-injury.
 

128

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Hayward is much better than the best options after him, but he’s playing like a 15M/year Iggy-on-GSW type of guy. That’s fine, and may be enough, but he’s clearly limited post-injury.
No doubt, but at this point I'm just thankful to have him back and contributing on a modest scale. That was a tough injury he suffered.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Perhaps eating minutes is too harsh. But is he an impact player? In particular: he seems tentative; turning down shots he really should be taking.
I don't see much in the way of making defensive stops, pulling down rebounds in traffic, etc. Not that he is making egregious mistakes, but where is the impact?

I am thinking of Theis today, who was noticeable on the defensive end. Do you see much of that from GH.

As much as Smart can be frustrating, he can and does impose his will on a game. Which means making plays that are difficult and impactful.

GH did show some initiative and competence late in Friday's game, with his patented floaters etc. IF that GH can be consistent, then he is real threat.
I HOPE to see that. I think it could happen consistently if team energy is flowing (that is, if he isn't the one expected to lead the charge)
To my eye, GH has really helped to solidify the defense. Having another guy who can switch and defend has been key to getting stops. He can credibly guard everyone on MIA and that's important when MIA runs all of its window-dressing.

GH looks about 75% to me but really impacts the game for the Cs.
 

SteveF

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But is he an impact player?
Miami's shot quality (expected EFG% based on shot location, nearest defender, etc.) was .54 in game 1, .55 in game 2, .51 in game 3, .48 in game 4, and .50 game 5 according to pbpstats.com

The Celtics defense has been considerably better since Hayward has gotten back. Maybe it's just coincidence, but Miami has been getting much less out of their cutting the last three games.

Edit: Beaten by a chicken dinner! The shame...
 

benhogan

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To my eye, GH has really helped to solidify the defense. Having another guy who can switch and defend has been key to getting stops. He can credibly guard everyone on MIA and that's important when MIA runs all of its window-dressing.

GH looks about 75% to me but really impacts the game for the Cs.
Agreed. postgame GH noticeably limped off the court into the locker room/Disney studios?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Miami's shot quality (expected EFG% based on shot location, nearest defender, etc.) was .54 in game 1, .55 in game 2, .51 in game 3, .48 in game 4, and .50 game 5 according to pbpstats.com

The Celtics defense has been considerably better since Hayward has gotten back. Maybe it's just coincidence, but Miami has been getting much less out of their cutting the last three games.

Edit: Beaten by a chicken dinner! The shame...
Interesting website, thanks for posting.

Here's a stat. BOS's 2P FGA attempts through 5 games = 46, 44, 59, 42, 55. Guess which ones they won?
 

NomarsFool

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I agree that I think the defense has improved with Hayward on the court. I feel like players get past him less frequently than Grant, and he plays taller than Semi because of his ability to actually leave the ground.

His shooting wasn’t great. If you look at the box score it looks okay, but I feel like he had a few layups to pad the stats but his open jumpers were mostly misses.

We still need him to be better. Right now we’ve been getting amazing games from Tatum and Brown but we can’t expect that every single night.
 

slamminsammya

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I agree that I think the defense has improved with Hayward on the court. I feel like players get past him less frequently than Grant, and he plays taller than Semi because of his ability to actually leave the ground.

His shooting wasn’t great. If you look at the box score it looks okay, but I feel like he had a few layups to pad the stats but his open jumpers were mostly misses.

We still need him to be better. Right now we’ve been getting amazing games from Tatum and Brown but we can’t expect that every single night.
Because it annoys me to no end, it's worth reminding everyone Semi has a fantastic vertical leap and yet never leaves his feet. He is in fact historically bad at blocking shots.

Hayward may not be 100 pct but he knows what to do with the ball which is so valuable in the playoffs.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Miami's shot quality (expected EFG% based on shot location, nearest defender, etc.) was .54 in game 1, .55 in game 2, .51 in game 3, .48 in game 4, and .50 game 5 according to pbpstats.com

The Celtics defense has been considerably better since Hayward has gotten back. Maybe it's just coincidence, but Miami has been getting much less out of their cutting the last three games.

Edit: Beaten by a chicken dinner! The shame...
I don’t think this is coincidence at all as you need 5 switchable defenders against this Miami offense. When Hayward’s defensive versatility isn’t on the floor the Heat actively seek out the mismatches that Wanamaker presents inside and Semi on the perimeter similar to how they seek out Kemba and Theis on switches. Limiting the options the Heat have is evident in these past couple of games.
 

Eddie Jurak

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It was interesting that when Kemba got in foul trouble early the Celtics actually ran a PG-free lineup for a few minutes. Grant, Hayward, Theis, Tatum, Brown for the last 2 minutes of the first quarter before Wanamaker came in at the start of the second. Each team scored 5 points during that stretch.
 

Cesar Crespo

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We are talking about JB from 10-16 in his thread, but in Utah GH shot .423 from that range with a distribution of .105.
Since joining the Celtics, he's .490 from that range with a distribution of .154. Shot 60.0% from that range in the playoffs last year and is currently at 50% this year. Not sure if that includes last night.

Of course he's shooting better everywhere else on the court too besides 3.
With C's With Utah
0-3": .703 .638
3-10": .484 .381
10-16": .490 .423
16-3p: .434 .399
3p: .357 .368
 

Saints Rest

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We are talking about JB from 10-16 in his thread, but in Utah GH shot .423 from that range with a distribution of .105.
Since joining the Celtics, he's .490 from that range with a distribution of .154. Shot 60.0% from that range in the playoffs last year and is currently at 50% this year. Not sure if that includes last night.

Of course he's shooting better everywhere else on the court too besides 3.
With C's With Utah
0-3": .703 .638
3-10": .484 .381
10-16": .490 .423
16-3p: .434 .399
3p: .357 .368
It must help being the 3rd or 4th option on a team, rather than first.
 

InstaFace

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I thought in Game 3 that Hayward was very aggressive and much more willing to take a shot or drive to the basket, even to take a foul. He looked a lot more tentative in Game 4, and somewhere in between last night. He may need a little Stuart Smalley motivation up there, because a GH with a killer instinct is an enormous problem for Miami since they're already consumed with not getting shredded by the rest of the Best 5, and they just don't have the bodies to handle Hayward playing with the second unit.

Also, Hayward had a few possessions guarding Bam Adebayo in the post last night, and to my eyes did a credible job despite giving up 2 inches and 30 pounds. Not that you'd want that to become a regular thing, but the fact that he was up for the challenge is itself encouraging.
 
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