Bill Parcells, @BigSey93 and @CoachVrabel50 are your 2020 @Patriots Hall of Fame finalists!
View: https://twitter.com/TheHall/status/1252628662693826562
View: https://twitter.com/TheHall/status/1252628662693826562
Raymond Berry had a better winning % (.552), more wins (48), more playoff wins (3), and the same number of AFC Championships (1). No one is arguing that he should be in the Pats HoF.Would anyone who votes for Parcells offer a defense?
As stated, he was 32-32 overall, even with a Super Bowl trip. And even though his departure led to Belichick being hired, it was truly ugly.
I get the "re-sestablished franchise credibility" angle, but is that alone enough to merit a vote over the long-deserving Seymour, or even Vrabel?
I am not sure I ever hated any sports figure more than Tuna at the end...however,...the team was literally out the door at the end of 1992, and outside of the posters on this board, there were few others in NE that cared. He gave the team credibility from the first day of his press conference, established a winning culture, and built and drafted a SB team. Not sure there is BB if there is no Tuna.Would anyone who votes for Parcells offer a defense?
As stated, he was 32-32 overall, even with a Super Bowl trip. And even though his departure led to Belichick being hired, it was truly ugly.
I get the "re-sestablished franchise credibility" angle, but is that alone enough to merit a vote over the long-deserving Seymour, or even Vrabel?
He's got 7 votes in the poll. I was hoping those posters would offer their reasoningNo one is arguing that he should be in the Pats HoF.
Yeah, the departure sucked and may have cost the team that Super Bowl, but I honestly believe that without Parcells, they would have been the St. Louis PatriotsI am not sure I ever hated any sports figure more than Tuna at the end...however,...the team was literally out the door at the end of 1992, and outside of the posters on this board, there were few others in NE that cared. He gave the team credibility from the first day of his press conference, established a winning culture, and built and drafted a SB team. Not sure there is BB if there is no Tuna.
I'll take the bait as one of the 7.He's got 7 votes in the poll. I was hoping those posters would offer their reasoning
So, you're saying he's Dan Duquette.Wow, the Parcells hate is strong. No, the win-loss record isn’t stellar, but his drafting and team building contributed to Super Bowls even after he left, not just the ‘96 team. He helped build a championship core and culture that far lasted his tenure here.
I would accept the argument that Parcells brought an air of respectability and was an important culture change in New England, but I don't buy the idea that his presence kept then from becoming the St. Louis Stallions. Kraft bought the parking lot operating rights and then the stadium with the intention of owning the team and used the stadium lease to block not only the move the St. Louis, but also KIam's attempts to move the team to Jacksonville. I won't deny that Parcells made the purchase of the Patriots more attractive, but it's a stretch that he saved them from moving to St. Louis.Yeah, the departure sucked and may have cost the team that Super Bowl, but I honestly believe that without Parcells, they would have been the St. Louis Patriots
Bringing in Adam Vinatieri, Lawyer Milloy, Troy Brown, Willie McGinest, Ted Johnson, Ty Law, and Tedy Bruschi forgive a lot of sins, IMO.Wow, the Parcells hate is strong. No, the win-loss record isn’t stellar, but his drafting and team building contributed to Super Bowls even after he left, not just the ‘96 team. He helped build a championship core and culture that far lasted his tenure here.
Except Tuna famously wasn’t doing the grocery shopping. Hard to give him credit for the drafting.Bringing in Adam Vinatieri, Lawyer Milloy, Troy Brown, Willie McGinest, Ted Johnson, Ty Law, and Tedy Bruschi forgive a lot of sins, IMO.
Other than the Terry Glenn pick, Parcells had quite a bit of input into who was drafted. That was why he got so upset when Glenn was picked, as it was a real sea change in how the Pats had operated until that point. He essentially decided to draft Bledsoe over Mirer, and also rejected the various trade offers the Pats received for the Bledsoe pick as well.Except Tuna famously wasn’t doing the grocery shopping. Hard to give him credit for the drafting.
Would the Patriots have made the Super Bowl without Glenn? Would Duane Clemmons or Tony Brackens (the two most often cited targets for Parcells with the pick) put them over the edge? Imagine if Parcells does make the #6 pick a defensive player, what is the domino effect? If Parcells goes for a DE/LB/Edge with #6 does he draft Lawyer Malloy in the 2nd round or Bruschi in the 3rd or does he go WR in the second? How does that effect the BB Patriots dynasty? Pretty much anything that comes out of Parcells's mouth about that draft is revisionist history.Other than the Terry Glenn pick, Parcells had quite a bit of input into who was drafted. That was why he got so upset when Glenn was picked, as it was a real sea change in how the Pats had operated until that point. He essentially decided to draft Bledsoe over Mirer, and also rejected the various trade offers the Pats received for the Bledsoe pick as well.
I'll say this. The 1995 and 1996 drafts set up the Patriots. Law, Ted Johnson, Curtis Martin in 1995. Glenn, Milloy and Bruschi in 1996. These were all in the first 3 rounds. Pretty impressive to hit on all 6 of your draft picks in the first 3 rounds in a two year span. How many teams can say that has happened?Would the Patriots have made the Super Bowl without Glenn? Would Duane Clemmons or Tony Brackens (the two most often cited targets for Parcells with the pick) put them over the edge? Imagine if Parcells does make the #6 pick a defensive player, what is the domino effect? If Parcells goes for a DE/LB/Edge with #6 does he draft Lawyer Malloy in the 2nd round or Bruschi in the 3rd or does he go WR in the second? How does that effect the BB Patriots dynasty? Pretty much anything that comes out of Parcells's mouth about that draft is revisionist history.
But look how long it took!Hey, Duquette is in the Red Sox Hall of Fame.
Circling back on this as I missed it originally - I was referring to Raymond Berry, not ParcellsHe's got 7 votes in the poll. I was hoping those posters would offer their reasoning
Anyone still arguing for Parcells is doing so with their heart, not their head, and is basing it (from what I've seen) SOLELY on the notion that he made the Patriots relevant for the first time in the history of ever (which seems a bit revisionist history but whatever) and because he drafted a bunch of guys that would go on to become the foundation for the team that finally won it several seasons after his departure. That and his hiring may have prevented the team being relocated to Hartford.Buckley thinks Parcells was robbed. I didn't really read the whole article since I can't bring myself to reading him anymore. He's the worst part of the Boston Athletic site.
https://theathletic.com/1807057/2020/05/11/bill-parcells-patriots-hall-of-fame/
As has periodically been noted in this forum, the fact is Bill Parcells is a .500 coach with no playoff success without Bill Belichick next to him.Anyone still arguing for Parcells is doing so with their heart, not their head, and is basing it (from what I've seen) SOLELY on the notion that he made the Patriots relevant for the first time in the history of ever (which seems a bit revisionist history but whatever) and because he drafted a bunch of guys that would go on to become the foundation for the team that finally won it several seasons after his departure. That and his hiring may have prevented the team being relocated to Hartford.
That is literally all I see in his defense. "He made people pay attention to us" is not now nor has it ever been, as far as I've seen, a major criteria for any Hall of Fame candidate, nor is "drafted well" or "stopped the owner from moving the team." What usually counts is results, especially championships. Going .500 across four seasons and quitting on the team the week of the organization's single most important game (since 1985, where they were basically a speed bump for one of the best teams of all time) over a personnel issue with the owner of the team who also signed his paychecks should not EVER get anyone into any Hall of Fame.
I know guys like Buckley like to cling to the concept of "we were nothing, he made us something" because it allows them to hearken back to when Boston sports (outside of the Celtics, at least for a brief period) was mostly the subject of derision and maybe the Parcells hire did represent, in some way, a seachange of respectability, but even if you want to credit him for the team that won the first Super Bowl under Belichick (which would be extreme but not completely ludicrous), he had no hand in the coaching of the team the season that they won, the decisions made that may have contributed to winning games (e.g. going with the third-string QB instead of the second-string after Bledsoe's injury), or anything that the team did to win that trophy outside of identifying talent and drafting it. But there's no reason to keep looking for that old chip on the shoulder of Boston sports fans as something to point to as a reason to consider someone like Bill Parcells being worthy of the Patriots Hall of Fame. And just because he's a Hall of Fame coach in his career does not mean he gets rubber-stamped in. John Smoltz is in the Hall of Fame but I doubt he'll ever go into the Red Sox Hall of Fame and the reason is basically the same: he didn't do enough while here for it to truly rate.
Matt Light retired a year earlier than Seymour, and there was a bit of backlog when Light was first eligible: McGinest, Faulk, Raymond Clayborn (long overdue) all got in before Light or Seymour. Rodney Harrison snuck in between them. Light was with the Pats for longer (granted, that wasn't Seymour's fault), so I wouldn't call the order of induction a travesty.That Seymour wasn't in earlier is ridiculous. He was THE player other teams prepared for more than anyone else on that D. Matt Light getting in before Seymour was a travesty. Glad he's finally going to be wearing the red jacket. (To be clear, I'm glad Light's in, too, just didn't agree with the order.)
Seymour was a three-time First-Team All-Pro. He has better credentials than any of the other players you mention.Matt Light retired a year earlier than Seymour, and there was a bit of backlog when Light was first eligible: McGinest, Faulk, Raymond Clayborn (long overdue) all got in before Light or Seymour. Rodney Harrison snuck in between them. Light was with the Pats for longer (granted, that wasn't Seymour's fault), so I wouldn't call the order of induction a travesty.
I never claimed they were better, nor did I imply they were better. Please point out where I did in my post.Seymour was a three-time First-Team All-Pro. He has better credentials than any of the other players you mention.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I just think it's dumb that a player like Richard Seymour queues up behind a backlog like he was just some guy and not one of the four or five transcendent players of the dynasty. Sure, put Mike Vrabel in the backlog; Vrabel was a very good player for a long time but not really ever one of the two or three best players on the defense. Seymour should be a backlog-jumper.I never claimed they were better, nor did I imply they were better. Please point out where I did in my post.
Seymour and Light won three Lombardis, too. Faulk over them is dumb.Seymour wasn't even eligible when McGinest was inducted. And while Seymour may have better credentials than Clayborn, Clayborn's induction was long overdue and that is a consideration. Faulk over Seymour or Light is an interesting one, but he played 161 games as a Patriot and won 3 Lombardi's here. The Pats HoF is not simply the football version of the WAR Hall of Fame, nor should we want it to be.
I think some years they have a slot reserved for old time players that have gone unrecognized.Is the Patriots HOF a "one person per year" thing?
If so, I think Parcells eventually makes it, once the key players of the BB dynasty are all in. There will be nostalgia, lots of talk about franchise credibility, and people will be more energized by him (with time healing all wounds) than by inducting some non-star journeyman.
Right - I think if Parcells gets in it will not be via the annual vote, because there is soon going to be a huge backlog of players. It's already building up.I think some years they have a slot reserved for old time players that have gone unrecognized.
Then there's the contributor section. I believe Kraft could appoint Parcells as a contributor like he did with Gil Santos.
Off the top of my head, some deserving players from this era (in no particular order):Right - I think if Parcells gets in it will not be via the annual vote, because there is soon going to be a huge backlog of players. It's already building up.