Is it for prospects mainly or either Buehler or Bellinger coming too? I like Joc more than most, especially for defense at Fenway, but would still be disappointed if no star is coming back. But less so with Joc than Myers.
(Price + Betts, right?)
Sox talking Mookie trade with Dodgers, Padres - News & Discussion
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(Price + Betts, right?)
If Price is not traded now, the Red Sox will almost assuredly remain above the luxury tax threshold. That means that every player on the team not making the minimum will be subject to trade rumors until the deadline. I'd rather get under the threshold now and include Price or Eovaldi in a Dodgers trade, should it occur.
Oh certainly. Is anyone doubting that?
If we have to trade Betts, at least one of Price/Eovaldi/Sale have to go too
There is zero possible way Cody Bellinger will be traded. He was the NL MVP last year and has 4 more years of arbitration.
Not sure if my sarcasm meter is broken, but there is absolutely no chance in hell that the dodgers are trading Bellinger or Buehler. I think Verdugo is even wish casting at this point. I think we are looking at a Ruiz/Pollack/Gonsolin package at best with maybe a lottery ticket. Of course this depends heavily on the Price (with cash) inclusion.
I suppose it could be possible if the dodgers could make a stipulation Betts would have to sign a long term contract. But even then the Sox still arent giving up anything more. So yeah, I must be drunk cause that still wont be enough.
Agreed. And I'd like to see one of them go, in that order, with no subsidy (although I'd be ok with them taking a lower $, bad contract but usable piece back, like Pollock for Price).
would it be better to add Price and take back lesser prospects or to not include Price and hope he shows promise this season so we can trade him at the deadline while paying less of his salary?
I want Verdegu, Ruiz, and Gonsolin and I doubt they would include Verdegu if they also have to take on Price’s contract
Verdugo + would be remarkable and keep the team this year very competitive. Verdugo would be plug n play in RF. He’s not Mookie but he can handle RF in Fenway and is a very productive bat with upside. 23 years old with 5 years of control.
He’s exactly the type of guy you want back when you trade a Mookie Betts.
He’s exactly the type of guy you want back when you trade a Mookie Betts.
How about this....
Sox give up:
Betts
Price
Benintendi
Barnes
Dodgers give up:
Verdugo
Ruiz
Gonsolin
Pollock
Kelly
Trade simulator validates it. The Sox lose four players totaling $65M, and take on five players totaling (including pre-arb salaries) about $22M.
What's in it for the Dodgers: They significantly upgrade their outfield while acquiring a veteran starter with playoff experience in exchange for a young one with a higher ceiling. And they swap an overpriced reliever for a cheaper and possibly better one.
What's in it for the Red Sox: They get under the limit with a wide enough margin to think about adding talent either before or during the season, while adding three young players, all either already in or close to the big leagues, all of whom have impact potential. They do this while arguably remaining able to field a competitive team for 2020.
Sox give up:
Betts
Price
Benintendi
Barnes
Dodgers give up:
Verdugo
Ruiz
Gonsolin
Pollock
Kelly
Trade simulator validates it. The Sox lose four players totaling $65M, and take on five players totaling (including pre-arb salaries) about $22M.
What's in it for the Dodgers: They significantly upgrade their outfield while acquiring a veteran starter with playoff experience in exchange for a young one with a higher ceiling. And they swap an overpriced reliever for a cheaper and possibly better one.
What's in it for the Red Sox: They get under the limit with a wide enough margin to think about adding talent either before or during the season, while adding three young players, all either already in or close to the big leagues, all of whom have impact potential. They do this while arguably remaining able to field a competitive team for 2020.
That would be one of the biggest blockbuster deals in recent MLB history, no?
I suppose. But it seems like it's going to take something big and multi-legged like that to make a deal work if the Sox want to use this to get under the limit while making it attractive enough to the Dodgers. If they're less concerned about the limit and just want to maximize the return for Mookie, a one-up swap for Verdugo could also work.
It's frustrating that the threshold is seemingly such a priority because a pretty valuable trade can be made by taking on Pollock's money, according to that trade simulator. They could walk away with Gonsolin, Ruiz, Jeter-Downs and Gray if they took on Pollock (i realize this is inexact) but they'd still be over the threshold if they take on Pollock. That would be a really nice return but I can't see them making a deal without getting them under the number. I hope I'm wrong.
They don't have to get under all in one transaction, but the more major league ready, cost-controlled pieces they add, the easier it will be for them to send away players who are making money in other transactions, & I'm sure Bloom is looking at it as a larger puzzle.
I put Mookie for Gonsolin, Jeter-Downs, Ruiz, Gray and Pollock in the trade simulator and it's within 4 points. It really gives you a sense of how much big contracts weigh down value. It's a fun tool to give you some context but I have a hard time imagining they take on Pollock just to get a larger return. Hopefully I'm wrong and JM3 has a better feel for their motives.
Even with a better return it would be a waste to trade Mookie without ultimately resetting the cap this season to put yourself in a better position to make a strong offer next offseason. If the offer isn't good enough you still have the flexibility to allocate that money towards somebody better than Pollock.
Yeah, there's absolutely no reason to take on Pollock unless it's a get-under-the-limit trade, which means either Price or Eovaldi is also involved.
As long as we lose Price's salary too I can live with whatever happens.
The ridiculous contracts/extensions in the last decade such as Crawford, Gonzo, Panda, Hanley, Price, Eovaldi, even Dustin's extension, have really hamstrung arriving to here. We should have been in position to keep Mookie but our ghosts have come back to haunt us so it must happen.
We'll still hit well as a team with JD, X, Devers, etc., take this gift, and hopefully our new GM will be a lot smarter and look a few steps ahead when making decisions!
The ridiculous contracts/extensions in the last decade such as Crawford, Gonzo, Panda, Hanley, Price, Eovaldi, even Dustin's extension, have really hamstrung arriving to here. We should have been in position to keep Mookie but our ghosts have come back to haunt us so it must happen.
We'll still hit well as a team with JD, X, Devers, etc., take this gift, and hopefully our new GM will be a lot smarter and look a few steps ahead when making decisions!
Well if Pollock helped you get a better prospect too.... Pollock is obviously not remotely in Mookie's league, but he had 15 homers in just 308 ab last year, and put up a 108 ops+ (second year in a row he's done that). He's not a good fielder, and so him playing RF in Fenway isn't exactly appealing, but he's actually an above-average bat (112 ops+ for his career). He was worth 3.1 and 2.5 bWAR in 2017 and 2018, respectively. As a *player*, you definitely could do worse as a temporary Mookie replacement than Pollock.
The money though...yeah, he's earning $15m in 2020, $18m in 2021, and $13m in 2022, so they'd have to have that offset somehow.
At the same time that I totally hear where you're coming from, I would just point out that the "hamstrung" franchise we're talking about is one of only two that have won multiple titles in the past decade (and we're in a lot better shape than the other one). Most franchises' fans would gladly trade with us.
I don't think there's a magic formula for avoiding situations like this. They just have to be dealt with.
Maybe there is. Maybe Bloom brought some of that magic from Tampa with him.
If there's one thing Tampa has had to deal with, it's getting under the luxury tax threshold!
I like Verdugo a lot but I’m fine taking Pollock instead in some cases.
A package of something like:
- Pollock
- Gonsolin
- Gray
- Ruiz
- Lottery ticket (Luis Rodriguez? 17 year old top international signing).
Mookie is gone but that’s the type of high impact controllable pitching this organization desperately needs.
A package of something like:
- Pollock
- Gonsolin
- Gray
- Ruiz
- Lottery ticket (Luis Rodriguez? 17 year old top international signing).
Mookie is gone but that’s the type of high impact controllable pitching this organization desperately needs.
The Dodgers talk could make Preller make one final push.
For L.A., meanwhile, it makes sense. They need to get over the hump. A pair of WS losses* and the upset by the Nationals has got to have them thinking that a player of Mookie's stature could be the missing piece
For L.A., meanwhile, it makes sense. They need to get over the hump. A pair of WS losses* and the upset by the Nationals has got to have them thinking that a player of Mookie's stature could be the missing piece
Not exactly the luxury tax but they've had a salary threshold that have to stay under.
Your point regarding the Dodgers is what I've been saying for months now. They are desperate to finally win a World Series and getting Betts would seemingly put them in a much better position to do so. Betts/Price would add a MVP bat and needed depth to the rotation. The Red Sox should be holding the Dodgers over a barrel using their desperation to extract as much as possible.
If it makes more sense to take on Pollock & get more from the Dodgers, & they have a separate trade lined up with Price/Eovaldi where the overall return on the transactions is higher, there's no point in sending the pitcher to the Dodgers just because. That only makes sense if the Dodgers are also the highest bidder (lowest unbidder?) for those upside-down contracts.
This is where I am. I'd rather hold onto to Mookie if they can't staple Price and his contract to him, unless some team is willing to make a ridiculously overpay in terms of ML-ready and prospect talent coming back to the Sox.
Yeah, this is what I was wondering when I asked if burstnbloom was including Price or not. So next question, is it worth the same package to include Price and get rid of all/most of his money? I mean if getting under the threshold is the objective here, do you in effect almost use Price as a throw in. Perhaps try to enhance the package just a bit without being greedy to shed the dollars you're looking to shed.
I would explore a dump Price trade now to get under the limit and trade Mookie at the deadline (whether this can be achieved is another matter). If there is more competition for him in late July, when the buyer only has to carry $9 million of his money and the season's progress has more clarity, you may equal or potentially better the prospect return haul.
If they do get rid of Price and Betts and Sale's arm falls off again, who's the projected #1 pick in the draft this summer?
If they do get rid of Price and Betts and Sale's arm falls off again, who's the projected #1 pick in the draft this summer?
Pollock is actually an ok fielder, traditionally. He was just awful last year. I wonder why.
according to the trade simulator, Price has more negative value than Betts has positive value, so I'd be really surprised if they got anything close to that package.
Am I correct that both the Dodgers and the Padres would likely get a higher compensation draft pick for losing Betts to FA at the end of 2020 than the Red Sox would if no trade?
my preference would be to trade Betts just for prospects, which gets them under the cap, and keep Price, who if healthy at the deadline will have positive value.
they are making this too hard. Betts straight up for Verdugo or May if that’s possible.
Half baked theory. This has been agreed on for a bit and a week plus of rumors and chatter is to prep and soften the blow to the fan base. Everyone knows it’s coming now.
Friday before Super Bowl is a perfect time to dump news. So I'm expecting an announcement tomorrow.
The midway point is Eovaldi for Pollock (at Price the Dodgers are going to hold the line on prospects), and if that gets you Downs you do it. Boston doesn’t have a lot of real middle infield help in the system, and they really need someone now.
The problem is that because Price and Eovaldi both have negative value right now, it will be hard to line up a separate trade involving them that doesn't also involve Betts.
True, but there's also one thing Tampa Bay has not had to deal with: organizing a victory parade. They've won 1 division title and gotten to the WS (and lost) once in 20+ years. Their front office, recently including Bloom, have done an amazing job keeping them competitive under their fiscal constraints, but what their story tells us is that while spending like a drunken sailor is not a magic formula, neither is confining one's shopping to the bargain bin.
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