Sanu had a great game at Baltimore, got hurt, and hasn't been the same in the 2 games post-injury. Progress of 3 of Brady's more important targets have all been hampered by ankle problems(Harry, LaCosse in preseason and Sanu now).
Didn't they draft a big WR in the first round?I haven't charted the game, but it looked like he got a lot more reps at X than he had in previous weeks, and he wasn't any more effective than Dorsett.
The offense has five WR and I would argue all of them should be slot receivers and not outside guys. They don't need an AJ Green but a 2014 Brandon LaFell would be huge.
The chicken or the egg?But as it stands, we're 4 1/2 games in and he has 135 yards. He's going to finish this season with maybe 600 yards combined between two teams.
I know Harry had that terrible play last week, but that should've-been-TD against KC was exactly what everyone had been hoping for from him this year: a tough, physical play, running over people on his way to the end zone. I know it's cold comfort but there is more talent on this offense than people realize -- it's just that injuries have really accentuated the OL problems. If Harry, Dorsett and Sanu (all of whom are hurt) can get separation, this is a different offense. Which makes me wonder whether some of the low snap counts means Bill and Josh are holding guys like Sanu and Harry back a bit in anticipation of the playoffs.Didn't they draft a big WR in the first round?
The team is lacking in WR talent, but Harry only saw two snaps yesterday, and on one scored a terrific touchdown...for this pathetic offense, Josh needs to find a way to get him on the field.
My guess is that Harry is really struggling with the offense and the sight adjustments necessary at the WR position, which is very important if a defense is going to be blitzing constantly and so everything is going to be about changing and breaking off routes correctly to give TB 12 a chance.I know Harry had that terrible play last week, but that should've-been-TD against KC was exactly what everyone had been hoping for from him this year: a tough, physical play, running over people on his way to the end zone. I know it's cold comfort but there is more talent on this offense than people realize -- it's just that injuries have really accentuated the OL problems. If Harry, Dorsett and Sanu (all of whom are hurt) can get separation, this is a different offense. Which makes me wonder whether some of the low snap counts means Bill and Josh are holding guys like Sanu and Harry back a bit in anticipation of the playoffs.
Harry has physical tools, but it remains an open question as to whether he's figured out enough to effectively utilize them. He obviously hasn't shown enough in practice to earn the trust of the coaching staff. Given that the coaching staff has worked successfully with WR's in the past, I doubt McDaniels has suddenly forgotten how to work in a guy like Harry.Then they need to find ways to utilize Harry. Simplify the offense if necessary. Even if he can only run, say, five patterns, then use him for that. This is what good coaches do - they make the best use of the talent they have available. Yes, it appears that they simply cannot do everything they want to do on offense. That much is obvious. So ok, figure out something ELSE. Harry clearly has *talent*. How to make the best use of it? What does he do best? It seems like he's really good at: (1) fighting for contested passes (despite the pick last week by Houston), and (2) running after the catch.
So simplify things so you get more out of those two things. Run him in crossing routes. Run back shoulder fades. Throw some jump balls to him. Maybe even run some end arounds with him. He's got plenty of speed and size and can be hard to bring down. Hell, maybe even use him in the Patterson role that worked well in the past.
You can't draft a guy then not put him in a position to succeed.
I sympathize with everything you're saying in theory. I'd love for Harry to grow into a bigger role. Heck, its the only dream you can really construct about this offense getting better.Then they need to find ways to utilize Harry. Simplify the offense if necessary. Even if he can only run, say, five patterns, then use him for that. This is what good coaches do - they make the best use of the talent they have available. Yes, it appears that they simply cannot do everything they want to do on offense. That much is obvious. So ok, figure out something ELSE. Harry clearly has *talent*. How to make the best use of it? What does he do best? It seems like he's really good at: (1) fighting for contested passes (despite the pick last week by Houston), and (2) running after the catch.
So simplify things so you get more out of those two things. Run him in crossing routes. Run back shoulder fades. Throw some jump balls to him. Maybe even run some end arounds with him. He's got plenty of speed and size and can be hard to bring down. Hell, maybe even use him in the Patterson role that worked well in the past.
You can't draft a guy then not put him in a position to succeed.
Yes, but he really struggled against press in college and isn't a great route-runner or separator. I (and many others) thought / think his best role is big slot.Didn't they draft a big WR in the first round?
Gordon has done zilch since he's left New England, so I cannot really blame them for that one. It's clear from the reports that he really didn't want to be here anymore.Yes, but he really struggled against press in college and isn't a great route-runner or separator. I (and many others) thought / think his best role is big slot.
I don't understand how they've handled Harry at all. He was back at practice when they IR'd him, so it doesn't seem like he needed six weeks off. Did they think they could ramp him up quickly? Did they think they wouldn't need him? If the former, clearly they were wrong. If the latter, why waive Josh Gordon? I don't get it.
Now Harry has a hip injury, though he did speak with the media after the game, which usually means it's not serious.
"Zilch" is six catches for 81 yards, which is more than Sanu, Harry, or Dorsett have in the last four games, and that's while integrating with a new team and playing only 30-something percent of snaps. He'd be the Patriots' best X still by a mile.Gordon has done zilch since he's left New England, so I cannot really blame them for that one. It's clear from the reports that he really didn't want to be here anymore.
Maybe coaching is the issue. While it isn't the first time that we have seen new receivers have difficulty masting the Pats offense, the Pats do have a new WR coach this season. Maybe it isn't just the players that are struggling.Harry has physical tools, but it remains an open question as to whether he's figured out enough to effectively utilize them. He obviously hasn't shown enough in practice to earn the trust of the coaching staff. Given that the coaching staff has worked successfully with WR's in the past, I doubt McDaniels has suddenly forgotten how to work in a guy like Harry.
Maybe he'll improve; he's a rookie having played all of 4 games so far. It took Malcolm Mitchell nearly 2/3'rds of a season to become an effective piece of the offense.
Hopefully we'll see more of Harry for the reasons you cited, but the reasons we haven't almost certainly are due to Harry's learning curve as opposed to the coaching staff's mistakes.
And he was in Brady’s circle of trust, which basically right now consists of Edelman and occasionally Dorsett."Zilch" is six catches for 81 yards, which is more than Sanu, Harry, or Dorsett have in the last four games, and that's while integrating with a new team and playing only 30-something percent of snaps. He'd be the Patriots' best X still by a mile.
It would help guys like Meyers move into Brady's circle of trust if he catches the third down pass that goes RIGHT through his hands and would have resulted in a first down, or if he had caught the touchdown pass that went through and hit the ground. You want more passes, rook? Make those catches please.And he was in Brady’s circle of trust, which basically right now consists of Edelman and occasionally Dorsett.
Absolutely. He was making real steady progress the last few weeks but yesterday was a setback. I give him partial credit for at least getting in position to make a play but, man, have to make those.It would help guys like Meyers move into Brady's circle of trust if he catches the third down pass that goes RIGHT through his hands and would have resulted in a first down, or if he had caught the touchdown pass that went through and hit the ground. You want more passes, rook? Make those catches please.
Thanks for posting this. You obviously can’t make every read correctly but I would bet that video review isn’t as kind to Brady this year on these types of things. Hard to blame him, really.The Circle of Trust was one of the points Kurt Warner was making on NFLN on Sunday morning. He showed plays where those outside the circle actually had been open, but that Brady either didn't look their way, or just decided to throw somewhere else.
Giardi points out Meyers was open here ... but that after the drops, Brady decided not to go to him
View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1204070142042198016
Orlovsky on the same play, saying he doesn't blame Brady for not going there
View: https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1204077893103628291
And that's really the issue: It is harder to blame him for this kind of thing this year, but in a season where their margin for error has become so thin, everything ... included justifiable reluctance ... becomes magnified.Thanks for posting this. You obviously can’t make every read correctly but I would bet that video review isn’t as kind to Brady this year on these types of things. Hard to blame him, really.
Yeah, Meyers is open, but after Brady has decided to throw to Julian because he has 300 lbs of DL in his face.The Circle of Trust was one of the points Kurt Warner was making on NFLN on Sunday morning. He showed plays where those outside the circle actually had been open, but that Brady either didn't look their way, or just decided to throw somewhere else.
Giardi points out Meyers was open here ... but that after the drops, Brady decided not to go to him
View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1204070142042198016
Orlovsky on the same play, saying he doesn't blame Brady for not going there
View: https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1204077893103628291
I think this is it. It's easy to look at the TV view and see an open guy but Brady's got split-seconds and dudes in his face. When he's got time, he's going through progressions. But his first look is always going to be to Edelman when he's single-covered, because of course it is. If he thinks it's there, he's going to throw it, especially when there's a jailbreak blitz.Yeah, Meyers is open, but after Brady has decided to throw to Julian because he has 300 lbs of DL in his face.
Maybe that's why he was a UDfa.It would help guys like Meyers move into Brady's circle of trust if he catches the third down pass that goes RIGHT through his hands and would have resulted in a first down, or if he had caught the touchdown pass that went through and hit the ground. You want more passes, rook? Make those catches please.
They just needed a first down there and I am pretty sure he gets that given where he was with relation to the first down line.Meyers is open there, but I think it's far from sure he scores even in the (sadly, unlikely) event he makes the catch. There's a DB easily in range of closing on him before he gets to the goal line.
Jules had great leverage, and was amply open if Brady had time to drill a low pass... but the pass rush meant he had to loft it, and, giving credit where due, the DB made a good play.
Meyers didn't need to score. They just needed a first down. Then spike, and they have just about a minute to get the touchdown.Meyers is open there, but I think it's far from sure he scores even in the (sadly, unlikely) event he makes the catch. There's a DB easily in range of closing on him before he gets to the goal line.
Jules had great leverage, and was amply open if Brady had time to drill a low pass... but the pass rush meant he had to loft it, and, giving credit where due, the DB made a good play.
I don't blame him at all for going to Edelman given the other receivers. But its indicative of a larger problem, in that the hot read in this situation - (1) jailbreak blitz, with one more rusher than they block and (2) coverage in which Meyers' guy is playing off coverage and going under Edelman's route - really should be Meyers (or whoever is running that route). Edelman's route is slower developing so at best you're going to be delivering a tough ball with a guy in your face.I think this is it. It's easy to look at the TV view and see an open guy but Brady's got split-seconds and dudes in his face. When he's got time, he's going through progressions. But his first look is always going to be to Edelman when he's single-covered, because of course it is. If he thinks it's there, he's going to throw it, especially when there's a jailbreak blitz.
They just needed a first down there and I am pretty sure he gets that given where he was with relation to the first down line.
Watch that sequence in slow motion between seconds 4 and 6 (using the posted video). By the time Meyers is starting to appear open, the KC rush is already closing in on Brady and the ball is leaving his hands. The ball is in the air towards a breaking Edelman when Meyers truly looks open. This wasn't a matter of Brady not "trusting" Meyers, it was a matter of Meyers not getting separation in time to help, given how atrocious our OL played.Meyers didn't need to score. They just needed a first down. Then spike, and they have just about a minute to get the touchdown.
Yeah, shit moves fast, and this isn’t seven on seven football in shorts. The human brain doesn’t make and then act on decisions as instantaneously as people think, either.Watch that sequence in slow motion between seconds 4 and 6 (using the posted video). By the time Meyers is starting to appear open, the KC rush is already closing in on Brady and the ball is leaving his hands. The ball is in the air towards a breaking Edelman when Meyers truly looks open. This wasn't a matter of Brady not "trusting" Meyers, it was a matter of Meyers not getting separation in time to help, given how atrocious our OL played.
Nah. Its an obvious throw to the WR running Myers' route if you don't have a strong preference for throwing to the other guy. At four seconds into the clip, Tom clearly sees the DB on Myers back off and prepare to go under the other route. Right there he should be diagnosing the coverage and preparing to let it go very quickly to the crosser under normal circumstances. By five or six seconds into the clip, Myers has cut and the DB covering him is nowhere near. Tom should be throwing or getting ready to throw at that point. Instead, he is backpeddling to give himself time to loft one to Jules.Watch that sequence in slow motion between seconds 4 and 6 (using the posted video). By the time Meyers is starting to appear open, the KC rush is already closing in on Brady and the ball is leaving his hands. The ball is in the air towards a breaking Edelman when Meyers truly looks open. This wasn't a matter of Brady not "trusting" Meyers, it was a matter of Meyers not getting separation in time to help, given how atrocious our OL played.
Meyer's guy isn't in position to break under Edelman's route because Edelman is breaking his route to the outside. And there's wide open space to the outside. And at the point when Brady releases the pass, the DB has his back to the ball. I think if Brady had to do it over again, he puts this ball a little more to the outside.I don't blame him at all for going to Edelman given the other receivers. But its indicative of a larger problem, in that the hot read in this situation - (1) jailbreak blitz, with one more rusher than they block and (2) coverage in which Meyers' guy is playing off coverage and going under Edelman's route - really should be Meyers (or whoever is running that route). Edelman's route is slower developing so at best you're going to be delivering a tough ball with a guy in your face.
I think this is too far. Brady famously missed wide-open Gronk on the final two-point play in the 2015 AFCCG. Is Gronk not in the "Circle of Trust?" Sometimes quarterbacks miss open guys, or for whatever reason they don't think they can fit the throw in. Maybe he did decide he wouldn't throw to Meyers no matter what. But I wouldn't assume that.Hypothetically, if Danny Amendola circa 2014-2016 was running Meyer's route, I am 100% sure that's where the ball goes without a second thought from TB.
Obviously we're not inside TB12's head and I was being a bit hyperbolic in my post.Meyer's guy isn't in position to break under Edelman's route because Edelman is breaking his route to the outside. And there's wide open space to the outside. And at the point when Brady releases the pass, the DB has his back to the ball. I think if Brady had to do it over again, he puts this ball a little more to the outside.
I think this is too far. Brady famously missed wide-open Gronk on the final two-point play in the 2015 AFCCG. Is Gronk not in the "Circle of Trust?" Sometimes quarterbacks miss open guys, or for whatever reason they don't think they can fit the throw in. Maybe he did decide he wouldn't throw to Meyers no matter what. But I wouldn't assume that.
He gets the first down IF he catches it. After watching him yesterday, that is anything but certain. He had a bad day.They just needed a first down there and I am pretty sure he gets that given where he was with relation to the first down line.
I doubt he catches it and actually think that play is probably intercepted. The defender is right there. Those are the exact kind of plays that this offense hasn't been able to pull off all year that only look good in still frames.They just needed a first down there and I am pretty sure he gets that given where he was with relation to the first down line.
Watching again and I think it would be close. He's right at the line when he makes his cut, he comes back for the ball and it could be close. I think he likely gets its but not a sure thing.He gets the first down IF he catches it. After watching him yesterday, that is anything but certain. He had a bad day.
A catch short of the goal line would be fine. They would have had first-and-goal with a timeout and a minute left. Still, the likelihood of an INT or knockdown or incompletion was probably higher if the throw is to Myers.I doubt he catches it and actually think that play is probably intercepted. The defender is right there. Those are the exact kind of plays that this offense hasn't been able to pull off all year that only look good in still frames.
Edelman was definitely the call - it just didn't work.
I've now watched this 20 or so times. Edelman is as open as Edelman is ever going to get. Myers is at absolute best a completion still short of the goal line.
Except one would assume Boger would mark the ball a yard shy of where it was caught, and no challenges...A catch short of the goal line would be fine. They would have had first-and-goal with a timeout and a minute left. Still, the likelihood of an INT or knockdown or incompletion was probably higher if the throw is to Myers.
Let’s hope he redeems himself in the playoffs.Sanu had 2 receptions for 13 yards on 7 targets.
So we're now at, 6 games, 20 receptions, 148 yards, one touchdown.
He also had the fumble that was brought back because of penalties, and quite a few passes he should have caught.
ugh.
What's the name of the podcast?For anybody still interested, Mascho has a nice segment in his most recent podcast where he breaks down the final play and a bunch of other offensive plays from the Chiefs game.
A repeated theme involves Brady not going to the first read when its open but its a WR/TE that he might not fully trust. Mark looks at the final play, the third down play on the previous drive when Brady didn't throw to Myers in the flat near the goal line, as well as a play where he didn't pull the trigger on a throw to LaCosse down the seam.
There are a bunch of other plays that highlight our dumpster fire of an OL, particularly Ferentz and Wynn. His podcast is always great but I thought this was a particularly good listen (you may want to fast forward through the first segment on Deflategate II though unless you really want to hear more about it).
For me it's on the Pats Pulpit feed episodes titled the Scho Show.What's the name of the podcast?
You’re relatively new here, yeah?For me it's on the Pats Pulpit feed episodes titled the Scho Show.
I know who he is but searching for both his real name and sosh handle with "podcast" didn't generate any hits for me, nor did I see it on Inside the Pylon, so... I've been around, just missed this one for whatever reason.You’re relatively new here, yeah?
Do you know who Scho is or no? I can’t tell.
Either way, though, yeah: He’s great. His passion for the game is, one might say, positively medieval.