2019 Trade Deadline

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Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Restock the system?

Vazquez is 26
Chavis is 23
Bogaerts is 26
Devers is 22
Benintendi is 24
JBJ is 29
Mookie is 26

That is your catcher, 1B/2B, shortstop, third baseman and entire starting outfielder under 30-years-old. How much younger would you like the Red Sox to get? ERod is 26, Sale is 30 (and signed through 2025) and Price is 33 (and signed through 2022), so their front three look pretty good. Martinez is 31 and may bolt after this year, but IDK, I'd say that is 50-50.

The point being, the Red Sox have talent. A lot of it is very young. Restocking the system would be foolish because good players will be stuck in the minors due to better players, who are still young, playing in the majors. Prospects turn to suspects very quickly.

I guess that the Red Sox could trade anyone of those guys and restock their farm system for fourth and fifth starters to go with bullpen arms, but that seems kind of bananas, don't you think? The Red Sox pretty much blew up their team four seasons ago and aside from ERod, didn't really get much. You want them to do it again? Why? Because they're underachieving this year?

In the last 10 or 15 years, we've all kind of convinced ourselves (in every sport, not just baseball) that the future is where it's at. "Blow it up and build for the future!" "Trade all the veterans and find some kids who can play!" It's bullshit thinking. Right now, the Boston Red Sox are presently in their future. Despite the down season, their window is still open. Dave Dombrowski completely screwed up this offseason by not building a good bullpen, you don't compound that folly by trading away a building block. You either a. ride this season and do better in the offseason or b. trade the prospects you have to fix it. Trading one of the above (maybe not Chavis) just to "restock the system" especially when their is a log jam of young talent in front of them is dumb.
We need more of this post here.
Rational thinking.
What are the chances that we'll get the return in talent that we have currently- which is built to compete for the next 2-3 years at least.
Locking up Betts long term and JDM for another 4 years with the money coming off the payroll from Porcello and Sandoval... add in all the small deals to Moreland, Pearce, Nunez, etc.... along with a very likely raising of the 2nd tax threshold and the Sox should have room to add a major bullpen piece. Who will replace Porcello (along with being the Always Needed 6th starter) in the rotation will be a question that'll be the most difficult to answer.
 

Plympton91

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Yep. Bullpen was terrific until the stress of overuse starting taking its toll.
Again, that’s the trend in the whole game. The Red Sox starters are right at average in terms of quality starts and average innings per start. And that includes the conscious decision to use Velasquez as an “opener” instead of a traditional starter.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Again, that’s the trend in the whole game. The Red Sox starters are right at average in terms of quality starts and average innings per start. And that includes the conscious decision to use Velasquez as an “opener” instead of a traditional starter.
And average in terms of quality starts and innings per start is okay for the team with the highest paid rotation in the league? They've also allowed more runs per game than the average (and nearly every team ahead of them in the standings is much better in this regard). Sooooo, should the pen be blamed for games in which the team is already behind when they enter?
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Heard the end of buster Olney on espn Ny. He mentioned the possibility that the Sox could explore a JD trade with the expectation of re-signing him after he opts out.
This is the move to make. Would be like the Chapman trade. Sign him in the offseason.
 

Plympton91

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And average in terms of quality starts and innings per start is okay for the team with the highest paid rotation in the league? They've also allowed more runs per game than the average (and nearly every team ahead of them in the standings is much better in this regard). Sooooo, should the pen be blamed for games in which the team is already behind when they enter?
Maybe. It’s all connected. Perhaps the starting pitchers would do better if they had a stronger pen behind them.

And even if the starters are a problem, and there’s no such thing as team synergy, that doesn’t mean a stronger pen isn’t better for the team.

And if the Red Sox invested $100 million in a starting rotation at a time when the whole game is moving toward openers and away from starting pitchers going more than twice around the order, that just makes the decision to give $17 million a year to an oft injured and oft inconsistent when he’s not injured starting pitcher even worse.
 

keninten

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It`s fun to speculate on what the Sox should do in the off season. Planning ahead is good but it`s not like they can just automatically can get what they want. You can`t just get on Amazon and order what you want. Don`t get me wrong I love the speculating but I think DD will go for what his best option is whether it is a good starter or a couple BP arms. He still has a limit on the budget and hopefully leave room for midseason deals. The only reason I bring this up because sometimes posters seem to make it very simplistic on how to fix things.
 

DeadlySplitter

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just because the game is trending towards openers / not exposing starters to 3rd time through the order doesn't mean having five quality starters isn't the best way to win, Plympton.
 

In my lifetime

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And if the Red Sox invested $100 million in a starting rotation at a time when the whole game is moving toward openers and away from starting pitchers going more than twice around the order, that just makes the decision to give $17 million a year to an oft injured and oft inconsistent when he’s not injured starting pitcher even worse.
There is the point that going contra to whatever everyone is doing is cost-effective. Paying 7-15 million/year for 1 inning every other game is not necessarily more cost effective (and cost effectiveness is definitely an issue with the RS tight against what looks to be their budget) than paying 20 million for 6 innings every 5 games.
 

DadOfFenway

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Heard the end of buster Olney on espn Ny. He mentioned the possibility that the Sox could explore a JD trade with the expectation of re-signing him after he opts out.
Not a bad idea... if going to sell - agreement in place with JD - we send you to ______ and then opt out and come on back... win/win as long as he sticks to his word (oh Boras that is...)
 

bosockboy

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I think we need to scrap the idea they could sell. They are 1 game out of a playoff spot, and ostensibly playing better this week. It’s fun to wishcast stuff but there isn’t a realistic scenario they are going to move pieces out in a playoff race. During their last 3 title years they more or less ran away with the division, so IMHO it will be fun fighting for the WC as it’s been a bit since we’ve had a tight playoff race.
 

bluefenderstrat

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Maybe. It’s all connected. Perhaps the starting pitchers would do better if they had a stronger pen behind them.

And even if the starters are a problem, and there’s no such thing as team synergy, that doesn’t mean a stronger pen isn’t better for the team.

And if the Red Sox invested $100 million in a starting rotation at a time when the whole game is moving toward openers and away from starting pitchers going more than twice around the order, that just makes the decision to give $17 million a year to an oft injured and oft inconsistent when he’s not injured starting pitcher even worse.
I guess you have to do things the way every other team does it. I mean, that's just logic. (Edit: my apologies for replying to Plympton's standard trolling.)
 

j44thor

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All this talk about trading JD is ridiculous. What message do you send to the rest of the team when you ship off someone like JD. I'm sure Price, Sale et all would be completely fine with the team selling off a major piece despite being right in the playoff hunt because they can get someone that might help in 2-4 years.

This isn't MLB the Show.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I think we need to scrap the idea they could sell. They are 1 game out of a playoff spot, and ostensibly playing better this week. It’s fun to wishcast stuff but there isn’t a realistic scenario they are going to move pieces out in a playoff race. During their last 3 title years they more or less ran away with the division, so IMHO it will be fun fighting for the WC as it’s been a bit since we’ve had a tight playoff race.
They have 6 games left until the deadline.

They could be 4 games out. They could be 16 games out.

It's ok to have 2 plans. One for Buying, one for Selling.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Not a bad idea... if going to sell - agreement in place with JD - we send you to ______ and then opt out and come on back... win/win as long as he sticks to his word (oh Boras that is...)
Depends what we re-sign him for and whether you think he's in decline or not. I think re-signing him could be a complete disaster if you are expecting 2017-2018 levels of performance. He's going to be 32 and should be a DH already.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Depends what we re-sign him for and whether you think he's in decline or not. I think re-signing him could be a complete disaster if you are expecting 2017-2018 levels of performance. He's going to be 32 and should be a DH already.
And, what incentive does he have to accept this wink and a smile? Money, only money. So whatever you get for trading him had better be worth the extra you're going to have to pay him.
Bottom line, they aren't going to trade JD, or should they.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Through the lens of winning the division. I just don’t believe they would punt the wildcard.
Good point.

They could be 7 out of the WC, or 5 games ahead of the 3rd place contender by the trading deadline.

It's ok to have 2 plans. One for Buying and One for Selling If they lose the next 6 games, I would hope they would be selling. If they win the next 6 games, I wouldn't mind if they bought something
 

chawson

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Agreed. It makes no sense to sell as long as the wildcard is a realistic scenario -- and it makes no sense to buy if that looks like the only realistic scenario. Which makes it overwhelmingly likely that they'll stand pat.
I think they’re in for a competent middle reliever at the very least. Someone with a solid slider than can replace the weapon that Walden was in April and May. Romo or Dyson maybe, or someone even less of a name.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Agreed. It makes no sense to sell as long as the wildcard is a realistic scenario -- and it makes no sense to buy if that looks like the only realistic scenario. Which makes it overwhelmingly likely that they'll stand pat.
I agree... and it's going to be a moot point since the Sox are going to be in the thick of it.... but how far out of the WC does a team have to be to "sell"? For me.... if the Sox get the WC... they're dangerous and can win the whole thing. I don't see a team like the Angels or the Twins doing that. So at the deadline, IMO, it's 4 games out of the WC on July 30th, for those teams. For the Sox, Indians, Rays and A's, it's 6 games.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think they’re in for a competent middle reliever at the very least. Someone with a solid slider than can replace the weapon that Walden was in April and May. Romo or Dyson maybe, or someone even less of a name.
Why not Walden? I don't know why people are convinced he's turned into a pumpkin and wasn't just going through a bad stretch that all bullpen arms do. He's actually been really good in his last 4 outings.
 

DanoooME

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I don't think he'll get traded. But just for discussion purposes: what do people think he'd bring back in a trade? What will teams pay for the right to pay him ~$25 million for next year and then watch him bolt out the door? Recent comparisons I guess would be what Arizona got for Goldschmidt - two players who've been pretty good but weren't super highly-regarded - and what Atlanta got for Heyward - a young pitcher coming off a disappointing season who picked a convenient time (from Atlanta's perspective) for a career season before totally imploding.
Fangraphs has an article about this very subject.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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Joel Sherman

The Astros have been the team most aggressively pursuing Noah Syndergaard, but the Mets’ current stance is that only the Braves and Padres and their stacked systems are ideally positioned to obtain the righty.
 

jon abbey

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I have a whole thread mocking them, but it's so Metsian that they don't mind moving Syndergaard WITHIN THEIR OWN DIVISION (he is under contract through 2021) but they are too scared to trade with the Yankees IN THE OTHER LEAGUE because they're worried about it coming back to bite them.
 

jon abbey

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I'd be happy if he stayed in the NL... but this is ridiculous! The Astros have a ton of young talent that they could part with that would improve the Mets long term. Oh those Mets!
Right, but pretty much everyone has their top couple of prospects off limits, and the Astros don't have a whole lot behind that right now (meaning behind Tucker/Whitley). The Padres are completely loaded top to bottom in the minors, the Braves have tons of young pitching they could bundle, and the Rays would also be a good match.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I have a whole thread mocking them, but it's so Metsian that they don't mind moving Syndergaard WITHIN THEIR OWN DIVISION (he is under contract through 2021) but they are too scared to trade with the Yankees IN THE OTHER LEAGUE because they're worried about it coming back to bite them.
Metsesque is the correct word here. From the old French.
While cleaning his rifle, Buford pulled a total metseque move.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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What would the Yankees need to offer the Mess to make them deal? Would Garcia, Frazier, J.Montgomery work? Maybe add another good lower minors prospect?
 

jon abbey

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What would the Yankees need to offer the Mess to make them deal? Would Garcia, Frazier, J.Montgomery work?
The totally serious answer to this question is Gleyber Torres, and even then I don't think the Mets would have the balls to pull the trigger (and Cashman wouldn't offer him anyway, to be clear).
 

BigSoxFan

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Right, but pretty much everyone has their top couple of prospects off limits, and the Astros don't have a whole lot behind that right now (meaning behind Tucker/Whitley). The Padres are completely loaded top to bottom in the minors, the Braves have tons of young pitching they could bundle, and the Rays would also be a good match.
Would Tucker really be off limits for Syndergaard? I could see the Astros caving on him now that Yordan looks to be a future star and Marisnick is serviceable as 4th OF.
 

chawson

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I have a whole thread mocking them, but it's so Metsian that they don't mind moving Syndergaard WITHIN THEIR OWN DIVISION (he is under contract through 2021) but they are too scared to trade with the Yankees IN THE OTHER LEAGUE because they're worried about it coming back to bite them.
It makes some rational sense. Syndergaard’s a popular player and the Yankees have a good shot at a deep playoff run. They could argue that some younger fans might get see a direct path out of the futility and defect to the Bronx.

Or that Cashman’s leading with Frazier and Brodie knows he’s already got a historically bad defensive team.
 

jon abbey

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It makes some rational sense. Syndergaard’s a popular player and the Yankees have a good shot at a deep playoff run. They could argue that some younger fans might get see a direct path out of the futility and defect to the Bronx.

Or that Cashman’s leading with Frazier and Brodie knows he’s already got a historically bad defensive team.
I agree about the Clint part but Cashman would be leading with Deivi Garcia here. Also it’s not just this deal, the Wilpons vetoed an agreed upon deal for Jay Bruce to go to the Yankees in 2017 and got much less for him from Cleveland right after that.
 

Murderer's Crow

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Even if the Yankees offered something like Frazier, Deivi, and Montgomery or Andujar...I'm not sure the Mets pull the trigger. Like Jon said, they're gonna want a sure thing and I think only Gleyber checks that box for them.
 

patoaflac

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I really don’t understand the 246 limit. Luxury tax for a rich franchise ain’t a problem. Draft punishment could be a problem in the future, but draft selections in baseball do not guarantee anything. If you have a team with Mookie, Devers, Xander, JD and guys like Vazquez and Chavis, all of them peaking at the right time, plus Sale, E-Rod and Price, pitching much better since June, you go for it. With the present team I like the Sox chances in a short series (Eovaldi will be great in October again), and if they add a good right handed bat and another good pitcher, they would be the favorites. By the way it ain’t my money so do it.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I really don’t understand the 246 limit. Luxury tax for a rich franchise ain’t a problem. Draft punishment could be a problem in the future, but draft selections in baseball do not guarantee anything. If you have a team with Mookie, Devers, Xander, JD and guys like Vazquez and Chavis, all of them peaking at the right time, plus Sale, E-Rod and Price, pitching much better since June, you go for it. With the present team I like the Sox chances in a short series (Eovaldi will be great in October again), and if they add a good right handed bat and another good pitcher, they would be the favorites. By the way it ain’t my money so do it.
The team as it is presently constructed is very dangerous if it gets into the playoffs. Big IF. But they have the best offense in the league. 2 of the best starters with a very good 3rd. The bullpen is clearly the Achilles heal--- but this was the exact same situation as last year. We had 2 good relievers- Barnes and Kimbrel. Don't even try slipping in Kelly.... he was written off by everyone here! But the bullpen is starting to look highly competitive... Eovaldi and Darwinzon look like they're the reinforcements that Brazier was last season. Add in Barnes, along with Porcello and that bullpen is a strength. Have Cora do what he did last year having Price and Sale available and I'm not worried... but the rest of the league most definitely should be.
 

brandonchristensen

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I remember trading Lester to Oakland and then resigning him to finish his career in Boston.

We should definitely do that with JDM.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I remember trading Lester to Oakland and then resigning him to finish his career in Boston.

We should definitely do that with JDM.
To be fair, the Lester trade followed him turning down an offer that John Henry (I believe) has since admitted was a lowball one that hurt negotiations a lot. Also, Lester ended up signing with the Cubs, in part, because the guy who drafted him was the head honcho of their baseball ops. JDM is not technically on an expiring deal and Ed Wade isn't working for any MLB clubs right now and hasn't since being a special consultant for Philadelphia two seasons ago.

The Chapman comp is a better one in this case.
 

chawson

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The Sox are a half game out of the Wild Card and the Rays just lost their ace. They’re not trading J.D. Martinez.
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
Market is heating up on Edwin Diaz of the Mets. Yankees, Dodgers, White Sox, and Brewers among teams pursuing him per Andy Martino of SNY.

Jim Bowden says the Red Sox are in on him too.
 
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