I agree with this. I don't get D'Angelo Russell being a Lakers target, Lebron isn't on the young players train.
I think Jimmy Butler might be the target here,
Sign Rondo for the room exception instead of KCP and you've got your starting five.
72 Suburbs in Search of a City: Anthony Davis to Los Angeles Lakers
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
I think Jimmy Butler might be the target here,
Sign Rondo for the room exception instead of KCP and you've got your starting five.
Am I missing something? LeBron, Davis, Kuzma, Deng, and nine roster charges works out to roughly $79 million, where are they getting the rest of the money for a max slot? (Unless we’re discussing someone like Russell or Brogdon.)
My understanding is that they'll use the $32MM in cap space first then finalize the trade for AD. It's an order of operations thing since they'll only need to send out $21.7MM+ to get AD now that he's waived his trade kicker.
They can't do that, though. AD trade is final - otherwise Pels couldn't have traded #4.
It's agreed upon, but not finalized. They won't finalize the deal until July 6th. That gives the Lakers four days to figure out how to use that space.
Is Atlanta agreeing to let Hunter skip the summer league? Or are they risking him getting injured playing for the Lakers? And what are they getting for that sacrifice? Because the only way to make this work is for the deal to take place July 30th after LA signs Hunter. Otherwise they don’t have the salaries necessary to reach $21.7 million.
They need to to $21,594,415 in total salary. Here are the outgoing salaries:
Lonzo ($8.72)
Ingram ($7.27)
Hart ($1.93)
Wagner ($2.06)
Bonga ($1.42)
Jones ($199k)
They are guaranteeing a portion of Jones's contract to get to the $21.6 number that they need. They'll finalize the deal on July 6th after they use their existing cap space.
To be clear, you're saying that there are tons of competent veteran players who are willing to play for the minimum when they could be paid much more by other teams because ...Lakers? I find that hard to believe. At this time last year, joining the Warriors supposedly assured you a ring. The Warriors ended up with a horrific bench that they had to fill in with guys from the Mexican league. I guess we'll see.
Maybe I am mis-reading, but there is no 4 day window. No one can be signed until July 6, and at that time they will have their 32 million to spend however they see fit, and in whatever time frame it takes. At least that is my understanding
They can negotiate with free agents starting July 1. Once July 6th hits they have to have an agreement in place with any free agents because that's when they'll have to finalize the deal with New Orleans. Once that trade is completed the max slot will be gone. In other words four (five?) days to work everything out.
No I don't think there are tons of competent vets willing to do it. They need to find between 4 and 7, do I think they'll find 4? Absolutely . Will they get 7 ? tougher call
Did the lack of a strong bench doom the Warriors or was it season ending injuries to Durant and Klay? Without injuries the Warriors are likely just fine. It’s a stars league and you can find plenty of role playing veterans just as LeBron teams have done in the past. The problem is when the Quinn Cook’s are forced to play 25-30 mpg instead of 10-12.
No doubt about it, If the Lakers make the playoffs, and one of LBJ, AD, or #3 is out injured, they are going to lose
Yeah, if the Lakers end up with LBJ, AD and Kyrie/Kawhi I really don't think the fact that their #8 guy might be marginally worse than another team's is going to significantly affect their chances.
At that point it isn’t even about talent it is more about fit.....since the talent disparity is so small. They can pick and choose their bench while still having the mid season buyouts to even fill a hole.
In fairness, the Raptors just won it all playing effectively a two-man bench in the Finals: Ibaka and VanVleet (with spot minutes here and there for Norman Powell).
The Warriors "Mexican league" bench was headlined by two very good players in Iguodala and Looney (or Cousins and Looney if you consider Andre a starter) followed by Livingston, Cook, Bogut, Jerebko, and McKinnie, all of whom stepped up at one point or another during the playoffs. Not great, but possibly deeper than Toronto's bench post Gasol trade. They got burned when literally everyone in the front 7 except Draymond and Steph suffered either serious or devastating injuries — but then, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition. They were a Steph jumper away from forcing a Game 7 even with all the injuries. Give them just awful injury luck as opposed to ridiculously awful luck and they probably pull off the three-peat.
On topic, I'm not too concerned about the new Lakers' bench depth (from their perspective). They'll find guys. Which isn't to say I think they're overwhelming title favorites or anything. I think they're probably serious contenders (depending on what happens with that last $32M) but once you factor in question marks regarding chemistry, age, new coaching, potential defensive and spacing issues, level of competition, etc., I'd be surprised if they're better than a 10-15% shot against the field in real terms. (Though Vegas will probably give them significantly better odds than that due to its proximity to LA and slobbering Laker fans).
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Right. I remember this being an "issue" with the 2007-8 Celtics as well that ended up not being an issue at all - the contracts of the Big 3 alone basically brought them to the cap, but they were able to fill out the rest of the roster with a couple of young players (Rondo/Perk), split up the MLE among Posey and a few others, and then the rest were minimum guys like Powe (and I think Eddie House took the minimum or close to it to join the team).
The last time the Celtics won a title, they were plucking guys out of retirement to fill the bench. Even borderline NBA players look good when you put them around multiple Hall of Famers.
I'm worried zero about the Lakers' bench depth. No one is going to have a chance to expose it until the conference finals, if at all.
I'm worried zero about the Lakers' bench depth. No one is going to have a chance to expose it until the conference finals, if at all.
The last time the Celtics won a title, they had Rondo, Tony Allen, Perkins, Posey, Eddie House, etc... They had a real roster on the team, in addition to plucking guys out of retirement.
I remain skeptical that this Lakers team is going to be some juggernaut. If they add Kyrie, it looks like on pace to be a mid 50s win team, which would make them on par with several other teams. Adding Kawhi would change that calculus however.
I remain skeptical that this Lakers team is going to be some juggernaut. If they add Kyrie, it looks like on pace to be a mid 50s win team, which would make them on par with several other teams. Adding Kawhi would change that calculus however.
I think they'll be a contender, but not a runaway favorite. The bench stuff will matter a lot more in the regular season than the playoffs. I think they'll piece together 7 or 8 guys by then and AD, Lebron and Free Agent X can play 40 minutes a night.
Lebron runs this league. Guys of the 2008 Tony Allen, Perkins, Eddie House ilk will be tripping over themselves to be on the cool team in LA for the minimum.
Eddie House has just been waived by his 6th team in like 3 years when he found a home on the Celtics. They will be scary with a 3rd max guy if the fit is right and pieces around them. Add Kyrie as that guy and the Lakers become overwhelming favorites.
The only risks I see for that team involve injury or a sudden decline for Lebron in his age "35" (cough 37 cough) season.
I love how someone made the comparison with that Lakers fan on the right and the douche Yankee fan.In fairness, the Raptors just won it all playing effectively a two-man bench in the Finals: Ibaka and VanVleet (with spot minutes here and there for Norman Powell).
The Warriors "Mexican league" bench was headlined by two very good players in Iguodala and Looney (or Cousins and Looney if you consider Andre a starter) followed by Livingston, Cook, Bogut, Jerebko, and McKinnie, all of whom stepped up at one point or another during the playoffs. Not great, but possibly deeper than Toronto's bench post Gasol trade. They got burned when literally everyone in the front 7 except Draymond and Steph suffered either serious or devastating injuries — but then, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition. They were a Steph jumper away from forcing a Game 7 even with all the injuries. Give them just awful injury luck as opposed to ridiculously awful luck and they probably pull off the three-peat.
On topic, I'm not too concerned about the new Lakers' bench depth (from their perspective). They'll find guys. Which isn't to say I think they're overwhelming title favorites or anything. I think they're probably serious contenders (depending on what happens with that last $32M) but once you factor in question marks regarding chemistry, age, new coaching, potential defensive and spacing issues, level of competition, etc., I'd be surprised if they're better than a 10-15% shot against the field in real terms. (Though Vegas will probably give them significantly better odds than that due to its proximity to LA and slobbering Laker fans).
Uhh, he is.And I thought Davis was going to free agency according to Rich Paul...
He won't be signing an extension before then and will become a free agent, like Paul said. Are you working under a different definition?
What's the over/under on numbers of games missed between Kyrie, LeBron and AD if that team comes to fruition?
This is where I'm at. The Bucks, Raptors (assuming they keep Kawhi), Jazz, and Rockets seem roughly on par with the Lakers, with the Nuggets and a few other teams a tier below. Maybe 20-25% to win.
Consider the source alert, but the Warriors with a late-season Klay return; a bit of progression from Looney in his age 23 season; some savvy MLE and vet min signings; and, say, a 50% chance of an 80% Durant come playoff time might have a non-zero chance, too.
Absolutely. The Warriors are going to be a team you don't want to sleep on come playoff time.
Fair on the Warriors. I had written them off, but obviously if Klay and Durant make it back by the playoffs, they're extremely live.
At least 50 for load management alone. It’s all prep for the postseason. Either way, it will be interesting to see what that roster looks like come training camp.
Lol, okay Karnak. Lotto numbers, plz.
Fwiw, ESPN’s full panel of hoops pundits (some obviously more plugged in than others) put their heads together and came up with 40% GS, 30% NYK, 30% BKN, which is a faux-scientific way of saying “after a full season of obsessing and babbling about this 24/7 ... we have no freaking clue.”
Edit: if you take that 40% KD shot and multiply it by a 40% chance of him healing as fast as Rudy Gay, that’s still a non-zero chance for GS.
Even if Durant stays, I just can't imagine him coming back next season. In a vacuum, sure he might be ready to play by April, but after everything that went down I would be pretty shocked if he got dropped into a playoff push at 80%.
I guess he will have his long term money locked up, but seems like a full year off and then easing back into the 2020-2021 season would make more sense. I assume the main goal is to maximize the chance of seeing peak Durant again for any team that signs him long term, so I expect an abundance of cation.
I guess he will have his long term money locked up, but seems like a full year off and then easing back into the 2020-2021 season would make more sense. I assume the main goal is to maximize the chance of seeing peak Durant again for any team that signs him long term, so I expect an abundance of cation.
Yeah, that’s all totally fair. I guess I’m just saying that any convo that includes the Jazz and Rockets should also include the five-time defending Western Conference champs, KD or no KD (assuming/hoping Klay returns in decent form in February or March, as Andre keeps predicting he will).
Anyway, I'm not objective, so carry on with the Laker talk. Sorry for the hijack.
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For those assuming quality role players will flock to the Lakers for the minimum, I wouldn't bank on it. Guys who are in their prime and good want to be paid. Look at the first Heat team. They signed Miller for 5 million, which at the time was real money (Lebron was making 14.5) They already had Chalmers, Joel Anthony and Haslem. The vets who signed for the minimum were either mostly or totally washed: Bibby, Dampier, Big Z, Jamaal Magloire, Carlos Arroyo.
Bibby played real minutes for that team and had the PER of a fringe rotation player. The following year most of those guys were gone and the Heat added Norris Cole through the draft and Batttier with the mid-level and won a title.
The Lakers are in even tougher spot then the Cavs in 2010. Instead of Chalmers, Anthony and Haslem they have one guy - Kuzma - who happens to play the same position as the other two guys on the roster. They don't have picks to either add young talent in the draft, or flip for vets like the Lebron Cavs did. And most importantly, they don't have time. The Heat could look at 2010 as a challenging year in terms of filling out the roster. But they knew that had they a window of several years to add complementary pieces with FA exceptions and through the draft. Lebron was 26 and in his prime, as were Bosh and Wade.
You are forgetting that this team still has a $32m slot to fill. If it’s say, Kyrie or Kawhi, you have Kuzma, and you have the exception (Rondo or DeAndre?). Then you can fill the rest with vet mins like Korver-types and others off the scrap heap who won’t be asked to do much other than defend, knock down a shot now and then, and otherwise stay out of the way.
The other option is to spread that $32m over 2-3 players, likely three, to build a strong supporting cast. How would LeBron and AD look with Kuzma, Danny Green, Seth Curry, DeAndre, Rondo, and Korver?
If things fall right for the Lakers they are eithe going to have 3 of the best 5 players in the game with Kuzma and a couple quality veterans or a solid Top-7 with LeBron and AD on top. The way some are talking here you’d think their 5th-9th men being all Undrafted FA which should be far from the case.
EDIT: You can replace Noel for the DeAndre slot as he’s a Klutch guy who opted out the day of the AD signing. The more I think about it you may want to swap MaMo for a wing too if they split the $32m three ways cuz it’s all about Klutch! (So does KCP return too?)
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I don't think the team in bold is very good, but that has a lot to do with the specific players at issue (e.g., I think Rondo is an undrafted FA quality player). If Pelinka does a good job assembling the rest of the roster, then the team will be good. If he doesn't, then the team will struggle.
I agree it's possible to fill out the back end of the roster with capable players given the cap space however.
Mario Chalmers, Joel Anthony, and Udonis Haslem are the kind of fringe players you can always find for the vet minimum. Starting with three max guys and Kuzma already puts the Lakers ahead of where that Heat team was, and the Heat made the Finals that year and could have won a title.
I know it was mentioned up thread, but I'm recalling Bob Ryan's take after the Celtics obtained Allen and Garnett: "Maybe they'll even make the playoffs"*. Rondo was completely unproven, and Perkins hadn't exactly impressed anyone other than just being a big body. Tony Allen was a defensive reserve. Leon Powe had played all of 23 games and 700 minutes in his career. And, of course, I shouldn't forget Scalabrine.
If they land Kawhi, they will be clear favorites. If they land any of the other max guys that have been bandied about, or if they decide to divvy up the max slot, they will still be in the mix as one of the leading 4-5 contenders (GSW [assuming Klay returns], Toronto if Kawhi stays, Clippers if Kawhi joins them with another UFA, Bucks, and possibly one of the other WC teams noted above would be the others). And Vegas is going to Vegas anyway, so I don't account for their odds all that much.
I'm still not sold on Pelinka's GM-ing abilities. I doubt very much he would have much success elsewhere. And I think the risks of a LeBron decline in 2-3 years time are very real, at which point the draft picks they gave up to land Davis could hurt them. But Pelinka probably doesn't care that much about that right now, which is fine if you're running the Lakers.
* In Bob Ryan's defense, he owned up to his prediction and would laugh about it as the Celtics went on to contention.
If they land Kawhi, they will be clear favorites. If they land any of the other max guys that have been bandied about, or if they decide to divvy up the max slot, they will still be in the mix as one of the leading 4-5 contenders (GSW [assuming Klay returns], Toronto if Kawhi stays, Clippers if Kawhi joins them with another UFA, Bucks, and possibly one of the other WC teams noted above would be the others). And Vegas is going to Vegas anyway, so I don't account for their odds all that much.
I'm still not sold on Pelinka's GM-ing abilities. I doubt very much he would have much success elsewhere. And I think the risks of a LeBron decline in 2-3 years time are very real, at which point the draft picks they gave up to land Davis could hurt them. But Pelinka probably doesn't care that much about that right now, which is fine if you're running the Lakers.
* In Bob Ryan's defense, he owned up to his prediction and would laugh about it as the Celtics went on to contention.
Other than having age 26 LeBron instead of age 35 LeBron, sure!
(Also disagree with that team being ahead of this Lakers' team otherwise, but we'll have to wait and see what Pelinka does here).
To be clear, I am not arguing against use the space on a single max necessarily. If that FA is Kahwi, then it is a no brainer. If its Kyrie, Kemba or Butler closer call. My point was more that if they go that route, I would not be terribly sanguine about having a functional roster. They will have the Room exception and vet minimums to find 5 rotation players (2 starters and bench players 7-9).
I think your example of Korver is useful. You identified the criteria as guys who don't have to do anything other than "defend, known down a shot and otherwise stay out of the way." Guys who can defend and shoot are at premium in the league. You can find guys off the scrap heap who can do one or the other, but probably not both. Korver's days as a passable defender are well in the rear view.