Byerie Irving? Do you want Kyrie back?

What are your thoughts on Kyrie?

  • I want him back on max deal no matter what

    Votes: 60 19.5%
  • I want him back on max deal ONLY if AD is also coming

    Votes: 85 27.6%
  • I’m done with him and don’t want him back under any circumstances

    Votes: 109 35.4%
  • Not sure - I want to see how the playoffs go first

    Votes: 54 17.5%

  • Total voters
    308
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DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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Based on one of those links saying Ainge knew exactly what he was getting and rolled the dice that Irving would mature, perhaps Ainge always accepted that this was a potential outcome--that he would not mature. The plan A is still AD, and Ainge took a gamble that Irving would work out, but if he didn't it didn't cost him any of the potential ammunition he would need to get AD.

I've said this before, but the movie character Kyrie Irving plays, Uncle Drew, would HATE the player/leader Kyrie Irving is.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26702069/kyrie-irving-failed-leadership-tells-story-celtics-failed-season

Details the blow up after the Orlando game in more detail than I've seen before. The knives are indeed out.
And this is by Jackie Mac, ostensibly a reporter that Irving trusts. And she wrote this:

There are plenty of reasons to explain why this season was so hard, and why these Celtics were so disappointing. At the root of all of them, though, is Irving -- and, more specifically, his leadership through words and actions on and off the court.
He's gone.
 

Red Averages

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Apr 20, 2003
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Regardless of what happened this year, given how he is being perceived would he want to come back at this point (even if say a month ago he did want to)? Vs. choosing his own path for another team, maybe with Durant? Feels like if he's staying, they need to shift the narrative fairly quickly (weeks).
 
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geoduck no quahog

not particularly consistent
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I'm not a pure basketball fan. The NBA has become indecipherable to me...a league of star teams and a league of lottery teams. In short, the Celtics became extremely unlikable (like many other teams that try to fill their roster with hired guns). But even with that (we're never going back to Bird, McHale, Parrish) how easy was it to pull for the Kevin Garnett Celtics - even though he was an acquisition, he was contagiously likable. I think of the Nate Robinson team and how easy it was to pull for them. Then there's Kyrie who is loved when he makes shots and despised when that platform disappears. Simply put, he's not the face of the Celtics but only a star who can help them win.

The get-off-the-lawn part of me wants to see a team built around the homegrown guys and secondary acquisitions. Is it choice between a Tatum-Brown-Smart-Rozier core, with Horford/Hayward as the hired guns versus a Kyrie-led team with the homegrown guys gone? Basketball is getting harder and harder for me to relate to as the league became a starfucker sport. Laundry only goes so far.
 

Big John

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The NBA has become less about actual basketball and more about merchandising and other forms of ancillary revenue, including gambling revenue. The star maker machinery has taken over. Once annointed as a "star." a player gets overpaid and coddled by the league (including the officials) no matter how well or poorly he plays.
 

mostman

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Marcus Smart on the idea Kyrie’s leadership helped take down the Celtics: “Bullshit. That’s bullshit.”
I love Smart. He's basically protecting the house here. Even if he knows that internally its all bad news. Good for him.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I love Smart. He's basically protecting the house here. Even if he knows that internally its all bad news. Good for him.
Its also an accurate response to a silly question. The people blaming Kyrie for the Celtics falling short are hot-taking, projecting their biases and willfully ignoring the ample evidence that the roster was flawed in terms of composition/roles.

Irving is an imperfect player and a complicated person. But his leadership or lack thereof didn't "help take down the Celtics". As HRB and others have noted, the lack of a clear hierarchy of roles, another consistent scorer and players playing for their next contracts are the main culprits.
 

Tony C

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Yup, confirmed. I'm a dumbass. For a second I was wondering if Willie Cauley Stein was going by Bill and why that was relevant.
count me in the "what is CBS?" camp...overuse of initials is rampant.
 

mcpickl

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Jul 23, 2007
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But from whom? Maybe Durant decides he does not want to play in NY. Or maybe Kyrie doesn't want to play in LA. He's only getting a max deal from Boston or one of the teams with enough cap space. It's a constrained market, especially now that there is no financial incentive in a sign-and-trade.
You're theorizing Kyrie might not get offered a max deal from anybody?

He's going to get multiple offers for a max deal. You can lock in the Knicks 100% offering him one.
 

Imbricus

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Jan 26, 2017
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I think the real revelations will come in the private sit-down meeting that Ainge and Irving will surely have sooner than later.

If I'm Ainge, I listen really hard. If I get a contrite Kyrie, who realizes he made some mistakes and is willing to submerge his ego for the greater good of the team, that's a guy I'd want back. But if it's a Kyrie who starts making demands about he needs this kind of player and that kind of player on the roster, then I'd pat him on the back and wish him good luck in New York or wherever.
 

Big John

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Dec 9, 2016
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You're theorizing Kyrie might not get offered a max deal from anybody?

He's going to get multiple offers for a max deal. You can lock in the Knicks 100% offering him one.
Sure the Knicks will offer one. The Nets and Clips might but I doubt it. I don't see either of those franchises investing $150M in the point guard position when they have excellent young cost-controlled alternatives and strong backups too (Dinwiddie and Shamet). Certainly Kyrie isn't going anywhere other than Boston until the AD, Kawhi, KD and Klay situations play out and teams' cap holds are resolved.

That leaves the Lakers. So, is Kyrie willing to play with LeBron again? LOL. Atlanta is another team that could afford him. So the Hawks passed on Doncic to draft Trae Young and now they are going to pay $150M to replace him?

It's really the Celtics or the Knicks as far as I can see.
 
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Devizier

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Why is it LOL that he'd play with Lebron again? They publicly buried the hatchet this year, and both of them are looking for a superstar team-up.
I think it would be a suitable next act. Send the scrub package out for Kevin Love and you've got Cleveland 2 Electric Boogaloo.
 

IdiotKicker

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Why is it LOL that he'd play with Lebron again? They publicly buried the hatchet this year, and both of them are looking for a superstar team-up.
Couples that break up tend to forget why they broke up until they're back together.

As for my opinion, I hope Kyrie falls off the edge of the flat earth and lands in the hell that is the Knicks.
 

the moops

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If Kyrie was interested just about every team would/could make salary clearing moves in order to offer him the max. There are only so many unrestricted FAs that come available who deserve max offers .You do what you have to in order to get one of those players. In spite of the hot takes Kyrie is one of them
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
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You're theorizing Kyrie might not get offered a max deal from anybody?

He's going to get multiple offers for a max deal. You can lock in the Knicks 100% offering him one.
What is Kemba’s rep around the league?

Not inconceivable that Durant would prefer to team up with Kemba than Kyrie, and Kyrie can’t be LeBron’s first choice. Even if the Knicks and Lakers are out, there will be multiple teams willing to pay Kyrie the max, but I’m not convinced he’s going to write his ticket the way he thinks he will.
 

Big John

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Which "multiple teams?' Name them and explain why Kyrie would be a fit. And if they don't have the cap space, explain what they might plausibly do to get it.

It's at least 50% (and may be as high as 75%) that he's back in Boston for the extra money. He's just playing with the media-- and enjoying it. And if Kyrie is back, that's zero championships in the next 5 years, with or without AD.

Let me add that I hope all of you are right and I am wrong, i.e. that a vast market emerges for Kyrie and that another team lures him away, because I want no part of him.
 

sezwho

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Knicks and Nets.
Those are two good ones, though I don't necessarily see Kyrie reciprocating unless the chips all fall just right.

In any case, Kyrie is smart and self aware and 26 and hopefully finding his way. His first crack as leading man was unmistakably trash, but I think he can and will improve. Most voices on the topic appear to see his acknowledgement of his failures as a weakness, I do not.

This season didn't work, no sugar coating it, but if he is willing to resign long term you absolutely have to resign him. The financial alternative, barring some yet to be envisioned sign and trade, is too grim. Maybe that's the asset-humper in me (google tried three times to change this to asset-jumper for some reason...but I digress) but I think DA is the same.

If he doesn't resign, then put it in the hands of DA, CBS, Smart and the even younger kids. If Horford opts in, that's great too.

No Morris though. I was a lonely voice saying Marcus the Gunner could redeem the second half of this season by showing up in the playoffs at both ends, and he did. That said, I need consistant effort and ball movement though the year to train the young ones, and he represents neither.
 

jose melendez

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If you resign him to a max deal, what are the rules regarding trading him? I've hated the Kyrie experiment, but if you can resign him and trade for AD, I think you absolutely do it. If Kyrie continues to be a dick, trade him.

That said, I'm pretty sure he's gone.
 

the moops

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It would be a far shorter list to name the teams that wouldn't want Kyrie if he expresses interest in them. Because I think that list of teams is exactly zero
 

Big John

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If you resign him to a max deal, what are the rules regarding trading him?
I believe the answer us three months after signing, or December 15, whichever is later. Kyrie is not eligible for a no trade clause.

I don't believe the Nets will have interest. That's just NY media trash talk. The Nets will match offers on Russell and move on from there. Russell's cap hold is $21.1M, and a max offer would start at $27M-- still substantially less than what they would have to pay Kyrie.
 

lexrageorge

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I believe the answer us three months after signing, or December 15, whichever is later. Kyrie is not eligible for a no trade clause.

I don't believe the Nets will have interest. That's just NY media trash talk. The Nets will match offers on Russell and move on from there. Russell's cap hold is $21.1M, and a max offer would start at $27M-- still substantially less than what they would have to pay Kyrie.
If they sign him to a super max, I believe it is a one year trading restriction.

If it's just the max, it may be 1/15, as the Celtics would be using Bird rights to fit him in under the cap. There's probably a whole bunch of other permutations that affect the date as well.

Regardless, there will be enough teams with interest for Kyrie to get the max. His agent is good enough to make that happen.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think the real revelations will come in the private sit-down meeting that Ainge and Irving will surely have sooner than later.

If I'm Ainge, I listen really hard. If I get a contrite Kyrie, who realizes he made some mistakes and is willing to submerge his ego for the greater good of the team, that's a guy I'd want back. But if it's a Kyrie who starts making demands about he needs this kind of player and that kind of player on the roster, then I'd pat him on the back and wish him good luck in New York or wherever.
Wouldn't you agree that both Kyrie and Ainge both recognize the need for the same type of player(s) on this cluster of a roster? The only reason I can envision for Ainge not to make moves this winter was to let the chips fall into place for a Davis deal. To his credit, one thing Kyrie has repeated throughout the season was his need to be a better leader.....whether he properly executes this growth is another question.

I disagree with those who feel like Kyrie had his belongings already packed and couldn't get out of Boston fast enough following this Bucks series. To me it sounds like mostly media-hyped stuff to get clicks and people are buying into it like its gospel. Kyrie would be leaving a ton of money on the table and likely leaving an opportunity to partner with AD while cashing in "assets" for actual productive role players to fit around them.
 

nighthob

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Thanks to circumstances I didn’t really have the time/energy to read the last CBA, so that happens to me all the time these days. Hopefully by the time of the next one my schedule will be a little lighter and I can get back to devoting more time than is healthy to this stuff.
 

Big John

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The change from 12/15 to 1/15 to trade a free agent resigned using the Bird exception is in Coon's FAQ #101. No need to read the CBA. I just missed it, in part because the of #93 (misleadingly) says that the BYC rules now only apply to sign-and-trades.
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
Stephen A Smith on ESPN 98.7 FM in NYC: "It has been told to me that it is a 90-95% assurance that Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant are coming to New York. Some in Irving's camp are pushing him to the Nets, but I've been told it's almost a done deal that Kyrie and KD are coming to the Garden."
 

NYCSox

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Stephen A Smith on ESPN 98.7 FM in NYC: "It has been told to me that it is a 90-95% assurance that Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant are coming to New York. Some in Irving's camp are pushing him to the Nets, but I've been told it's almost a done deal that Kyrie and KD are coming to the Garden."
Says the guy (SAS) who is wrong just about everything.
 

JCizzle

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Wouldn't you agree that both Kyrie and Ainge both recognize the need for the same type of player(s) on this cluster of a roster? The only reason I can envision for Ainge not to make moves this winter was to let the chips fall into place for a Davis deal. To his credit, one thing Kyrie has repeated throughout the season was his need to be a better leader.....whether he properly executes this growth is another question.

I disagree with those who feel like Kyrie had his belongings already packed and couldn't get out of Boston fast enough following this Bucks series. To me it sounds like mostly media-hyped stuff to get clicks and people are buying into it like its gospel. Kyrie would be leaving a ton of money on the table and likely leaving an opportunity to partner with AD while cashing in "assets" for actual productive role players to fit around them.
I totally agree with this. The only hole in this (rational) logic is that Kyrie is weird as hell.
 
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Jimbodandy

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What pisses me off is that none of this had to happen this way. Hayward and Kyrie arrive together, Horford and Smart are already in place, Jaylen and Tatum are both unknowns, and everyone knows their role. Then Hayward breaks his fucking leg, and Kyrie needs to be the team leader. Kudos to him for wanting the job and trying to do it, but he doesn't really know how. That type of leadership is just not there. Maybe it's his personality, or maybe he just isn't ready. And meanwhile the kids and Rozier had a nice run in last year's playoffs, so they start thinking strongly that they don't need someone to tell them how to do shit. So he's barking at the kids in the way that an ineffective boss barks at his/her direct reports. And they get frustrated and tune him out, and he retreats further.

Awful armchair psychology, I know, but I'll go to my grave believing that this chemistry problem started when Hayward broke his leg. Kyrie-Hayward-Horford leading this team, with the kids following, would have prevented the bullshit since.
 

DJnVa

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Stephen A Smith on ESPN 98.7 FM in NYC: "It has been told to me that it is a 90-95% assurance that Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant are coming to New York. Some in Irving's camp are pushing him to the Nets, but I've been told it's almost a done deal that Kyrie and KD are coming to the Garden."
I mean, maybe, but I doubt anyone is leaking to people that would leak to SAS.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Its entirely possible that Irving and Durant have a grand plan (though what happens if KD really did tear his achilles?) but the thing to note is that there are a lot of parties that have vested interest in spinning this whole situation. This includes other organizations, Celtics players and their respective inner circles and the media who cannot get enough earballs, eyeballs and clicks.

Even with the playoffs ongoing, we are officially in silly season. Human meme Stephen A Smith is highly unlikely to be the reporter who breaks a story like this.
 

benhogan

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Its entirely possible that Irving and Durant have a grand plan (though what happens if KD really did tear his achilles?) but the thing to note is that there are a lot of parties that have vested interest in spinning this whole situation. This includes other organizations, Celtics players and their respective inner circles and the media who cannot get enough earballs, eyeballs and clicks.

Even with the playoffs ongoing, we are officially in silly season. Human meme Stephen A Smith is highly unlikely to be the reporter who breaks a story like this.
100% agree with this. SAS has made a small fortune getting loud and making sh!t up

Kyrie probably hasn't made up his mind on anything at this point. The draft lottery, how GSW finish, if Durant is seriously injured or changes his mind, if AD gets dealt, if the Celtics deal any of the guys that chafed with KI; will all factor into Kyrie's decision.

also, Irving will be leaving lots of money on the table to go play under James Dolan, w/a dreadful roster, for an HC that has never won.
 

mcpickl

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Which "multiple teams?' Name them and explain why Kyrie would be a fit. And if they don't have the cap space, explain what they might plausibly do to get it.

It's at least 50% (and may be as high as 75%) that he's back in Boston for the extra money. He's just playing with the media-- and enjoying it. And if Kyrie is back, that's zero championships in the next 5 years, with or without AD.

Let me add that I hope all of you are right and I am wrong, i.e. that a vast market emerges for Kyrie and that another team lures him away, because I want no part of him.
For possible "multiple teams", I'd go

Celtics
Knicks

good news, we're already at "multiple teams" with two near locks

Nets
Lakers
Pacers
Bulls
Suns
Magic


Maybe all of those teams won't offer Kyrie a max deal, but "multiple teams" surely will. I'd guess a half dozen teams minimum.
 
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