Anthony Davis: No Loyalty

RedOctober3829

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The Lakers were not going to give the Pelicans the six to eight draft picks they wanted for Davis, the person said, knowing that the four first-round picks and second-round picks were more than the Lakers would offer.

Late Monday night, the Lakers changed their offer at the request of the Pelicans, two people said.

The Lakers had agreed to send their entire young core of Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart and Ivica Zubac to the Pelicans, as well as veteran guard Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, the people said.

The Lakers were also winning to also send the Pelicans two first-round draft picks.

And the Lakers were willing to give the Pelicans the salary-cap relief they wanted by taking back Solomon Hill, who has another year left on his deal after this season for $12.7 million.

The Lakers had made several changes to their proposals for the Pelicans, taking out a package that had included Rajon Rondo, Michael Beasley and Lance Stephenson, the person said.

“They wanted more and more and more,” said one person. “There was no more to give. They had cap-relief with Hill being in the deal. But the more they wanted the more it because outrageous and unrealistic.”

One person said the Pelicans are hopeful that if Davis isn’t traded by the NBA’s Thursday noon (Pacific Time) deadline, that he’ll want to stay and play for the Pelicans going forward.

“But that’s not going to happen,” the person said. “AD is not changing his mind.”
 

Ed Hillel

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Here

The Lakers are still glad to engage with the Pelicans on an Anthony Davis trade, but no longer want to bid against themselves, league sources tell ESPN. Lakers are waiting for Pelicans to make a counter-proposal.
“Against themselves.”

Ok, Magic! Just wait until the summer, you’ll have pleeenty of competition to bid against.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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The Lakers were not going to give the Pelicans the six to eight draft picks they wanted for Davis, the person said, knowing that the four first-round picks and second-round picks were more than the Lakers would offer.

Late Monday night, the Lakers changed their offer at the request of the Pelicans, two people said.

The Lakers had agreed to send their entire young core of Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart and Ivica Zubac to the Pelicans, as well as veteran guard Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, the people said.

The Lakers were also winning to also send the Pelicans two first-round draft picks.

And the Lakers were willing to give the Pelicans the salary-cap relief they wanted by taking back Solomon Hill, who has another year left on his deal after this season for $12.7 million.

The Lakers had made several changes to their proposals for the Pelicans, taking out a package that had included Rajon Rondo, Michael Beasley and Lance Stephenson, the person said.

“They wanted more and more and more,” said one person. “There was no more to give. They had cap-relief with Hill being in the deal. But the more they wanted the more it because outrageous and unrealistic.”

One person said the Pelicans are hopeful that if Davis isn’t traded by the NBA’s Thursday noon (Pacific Time) deadline, that he’ll want to stay and play for the Pelicans going forward.

“But that’s not going to happen,” the person said. “AD is not changing his mind.”
If Magic wants to completely push all his chips into the middle to lose in the quarterfinals, while ruining the future, knock himself out.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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Is Lonzo unmovable at this point? Even if a team thought he had potential aren’t they going to ask for a steep premium to bring the circus to town?
 

InstaFace

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oh, four dimes for a dollar isn't a good trade? here are some more pennies we'll add to it. that's "improved", right? why won't you take it?!
 

lovegtm

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Is Lonzo unmovable at this point? Even if a team thought he had potential aren’t they going to ask for a steep premium to bring the circus to town?
Seems pretty clear that's the case, if those latest Pel reports have any validity.

It's almost as if the Lakers could have factored this in at the time of the draft...
 

PedroKsBambino

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Pretty clear the Pelicans counter-offer will be roughly "thanks, how about you use that set of assets to acquire Tatum, Ben Simmons, Ayton, etc. and then we'll have something to discuss?"
 

Kliq

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This is the logical move for New Orleans. The only way to move Davis would be to ensure that the Lakers were offering up a deal so big that they could guarantee no other team could beat it this summer. So they asked for the house and LA is balking at it; so New Orleans can hold on to Davis until the summer and get the best deal for him.
 

DJnVa

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Do the Lakers play NO again this year? Because I bet Lebron drops 50+ on them.

Sit and spin Lakers.
 

Kliq

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Or Fox.

Or had taken Hield or Murray over Ingram.

Imagine if they kept D'Angelo Russell.

Whiff. Whiff. Whiff.
Simmons mentioned this in his article today, but recently the Lakers and the Knicks have fucked up so badly they both had to send away top four picks (Russell and Porzingis) so they could get off some terrible contracts they handed out, and those are allegedly the two franchises that all of these star players want to go to.
 

Myt1

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What rights does Davis have here? He is under contract to the New Orleans Pelicans.This goes back to precedent and the PA has never filed a grievance on one of its players being shut down in the past. Nuthingburger here imho.
He’s got what, a finger injury that’s pretty much recovered?

Is there precedent for a team shutting down a player who wasn’t actually injured anymore, because they wanted to maintain his trade value for the offseason?

I think that he’d have an argument that he’s being disciplined for something not subject to discipline under the CBA. Teams aren’t even allowed to rest healthy players for rest or tanking purposes, right?

I’m asking these questions seriously. This isn’t an area I follow particularly closely.
 
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RedOctober3829

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Lakers whined that Pelicans wouldn't return calls.
Lakers whined that Pelicans wanted too much.
Lakers whined that Pelicans aren't active in the process.

It's almost like the Pelicans didn't choose to start the trade process this week. Like someone else tried to start it?
 

Gash Prex

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This is all the game - now they wait and see if the Pelicans get nervous and come back with a lower request and if not, they could still potentially move forward with the deal anyway.
 

OnWisc

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Love that Laker fans are apoplectic over how unreasonable the Pelicans are being by not accepting a trade offer that just about every Laker fan would be ecstatic to see Magic pull off.
 

Cesar Crespo

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This is all the game - now they wait and see if the Pelicans get nervous and come back with a lower request and if not, they could still potentially move forward with the deal anyway.
There is no reason for them to make a deal right now other than to appease the Lakers. Waiting until summer is their best option.
 

moondog80

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I wonder what the tipping point was?

There is some cap on the number of picks a team can trade, right? If there is and it's 4 or less, I'm not sure it's possible for New Orleans to make an outrageous request, short of asking for LeBron.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I wonder what the tipping point was?

There is some cap on the number of picks they can trade, right? If there is and it's 4 or less, I'm not sure it's possible for them to make an outrageous request, short of asking for LeBron.
4 picks, rights to swap the other 3 years, Ingram+Ball+Kuzma+Zubac+salary relief. Maybe not outrageous but at some point you are crippling yourself to make any improvements going forward.
 

Captaincoop

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Well when you approach the owner of something and desperately try to buy it before it gets put on the open market, you don't come with 99% of the market price, you should expect to pay a premium.

(Let alone offer 75%, which is what the Lakers basically offered initially)
 

InstaFace

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Lakers pulled out.
Brad Turner‏Verified account @BA_Turner
Lakers pull out of Anthony Davis trade talks amid 'outrageous' requests by Pelicans
I very much want to know what those "outrageous" requests were.

Lebron required to go shark diving without a cage?
Jeannie Buss takes $10M in cash into a public square and ceremonially lights it on fire?
Retain Anthony Scaramucci as communications director?

I mean, c'mon Pelicans, if you're going to get humiliating, at least be creative about it.
 

moondog80

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4 picks, rights to swap the other 3 years, Ingram+Ball+Kuzma+Zubac+salary relief. Maybe not outrageous but at some point you are crippling yourself to make any improvements going forward.
I suppose that would do it, the pick-swap clause (aka 'Jayson Tatum'). I suspect it really didn't get that far, though.
 

Caspir

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I wonder what the tipping point was?

There is some cap on the number of picks a team can trade, right? If there is and it's 4 or less, I'm not sure it's possible for New Orleans to make an outrageous request, short of asking for LeBron.
*I think I've got this right, which means I almost certainly do not* Teams can't trade pics in back to back years unless you have another first rounder to spare. So if the Lakers have their own 2019, their own 2020 picks and nothing more, they could only trade one. If they also own another teams pick in either of those years, they can trade picks in consecutive years so long as they keep 1 for themselves. They could also just draft for NO and negate all of that.

So the Lakers, who only have their own picks to barter with, could trade 2019, 2021, 2023, 2025. If I'm N.O., I don't even want a 2019 pick at this point, and I'm probably pushing things out past Lebron's career/contract before I want anything to convey. I don't know how far into the future you can go, and a 2029 draft pick for my 2019 superstar isn't exactly giving me the warm and fuzzies. Especially if I'm GM and now I have about 0 chance of ever seeing a 2029 season, or 2027, or 2025, or 2021 for that matter..
 

ifmanis5

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I love the 'competing against ourselves' bit. As if there were no other offers. The Suns just recently volunteered to be a third team. It's obvious posturing and frustration from LA that NOP is actually doing their due diligence here.
 

moondog80

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*I think I've got this right, which means I almost certainly do not* Teams can't trade pics in back to back years unless you have another first rounder to spare. So if the Lakers have their own 2019, their own 2020 picks and nothing more, they could only trade one. If they also own another teams pick in either of those years, they can trade picks in consecutive years so long as they keep 1 for themselves. They could also just draft for NO and negate all of that.

I thought there was some limit there -- they can't agree to do it every other year for the next 50 years. Or can they?
 

Big John

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This is the logical move for New Orleans. The only way to move Davis would be to ensure that the Lakers were offering up a deal so big that they could guarantee no other team could beat it this summer. So they asked for the house and LA is balking at it; so New Orleans can hold on to Davis until the summer and get the best deal for him.
The following four teams are the favorites to get Zion Williamson: Bulls, Cavs, Knicks and Suns.

Bulls offer Zion, Markkanen, Carter and filler.
Cavs really have nothing to offer. I doubt if a Zion/Love deal would tempt the Pelicans
Knicks offer Zion, Knox, DSJ and filler.
Suns offer Zion, Ayton, Jackson and filler. I wouldn't even include Booker.

Those three offers right there are competitive with anything the Celtics are likely to put together, never mind the Lakers pu pu platter. As fir picks, if the Memphis pick rolls over, that's probably the most attractive of them all.
 

OnWisc

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I wonder what the tipping point was?

There is some cap on the number of picks a team can trade, right? If there is and it's 4 or less, I'm not sure it's possible for New Orleans to make an outrageous request, short of asking for LeBron.
I think the tipping point was Magic not hearing anything from NO and rather than play the waiting game, he's trying to provoke a more immediate response. I read this more as "we're done bidding against ourselves for a few hours until I get anxious again and make another offer." This has not been a well-executed campaign on the Lakers part as of yet.

If Demps is serious about considering Laker assets, I suspect he could ask for the players already on the table, and the 2019, 2021, 2023 and 2025 firsts and then just make himself more or less unavailable for the next 24 hours until Magic accepts. Maybe toss back one player or the salary relief.

I do suspect we are approaching "AD might sit next year" territory by later this evening. I still think that's Klutch's trump card but they've assured AD that they won't play it if they don't need to, and that even if they do, it won't ever really come to that.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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I thought there was some limit there -- they can't agree to do it every other year for the next 50 years. Or can they?
You are correct. Teams cannot trade picks more than seven years out. So they could not do every other year for the next 10 years.

There is a quirk to the Stepien Rule that I am surprised no one has exploited yet. It applies only to "future" first round picks. Once a draft has passed, whether or not a team had a first rounder in that draft is irrelevant. In theory, the Lakers could trade their 2019 first rounder as part of an AD deal, and then sometime after the summer ship their 2020 first round pick to NO for NO's next two second rounders (as long as the lakers still had some first rounder in 2021).
 

queenb

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New Orleans NBC sports anchor/reporter Fletcher Mackel:
Many in Pelicans hierarchy really like Lonzo. I know many envision (d) he and Jrue as an excellent backcourt.

But I’m told LaVar has wrecked any chance of Lonzo being part of potential Lakers trade with NOLA.

Pelicans “want no part of the Ball circus.”
This is either very clever of the Pelicans to pretend they have higher-ups who actually like Lonzo or very stupid of them to say they don't want any part of the Ball circus. The Lakers have nothing and everyone knows it but if the Pelicans want Tatum, they have to pretend to be seriously considering Lonzo. He'd be either the most or second-most valuable piece in any Lakers trade. So that makes me feel good about keeping Tatum.

As for Brown, I think the sheer number of Celtics assets will force Danny to overpay, just because anything less than Tatum or Brown would make the Pelicans feel like they're getting fleeced, and they want a guy with pedigree, if only so they don't get dunked on in the press. But the truth is, if I'm New Orleans, I'd rather have Rozier, TimeLord, and the MEM pick than literally any combination of the Lakers assets.
 

ifmanis5

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NOP have been close to the vest about which direction they want, they may be trying to figure that out themselves. If the direction is Zion and/or high draft picks, then LA is out. Simple as that.
 

lovegtm

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The following four teams are the favorites to get Zion Williamson: Bulls, Cavs, Knicks and Suns.

Bulls offer Zion, Markkanen, Carter and filler.
Cavs really have nothing to offer. I doubt if a Zion/Love deal would tempt the Pelicans
Knicks offer Zion, Knox, DSJ and filler.
Suns offer Zion, Ayton, Jackson and filler. I wouldn't even include Booker.

Those three offers right there are competitive with anything the Celtics are likely to put together, never mind the Lakers pu pu platter. As fir picks, if the Memphis pick rolls over, that's probably the most attractive of them all.
A Zion+anything offer tempts the Pelicans, but the problem is that AD won't re-sign with any those except the Knicks. All those other teams will do better to just keep Zion for themselves and start building. The Bulls and Suns, in particular, would have really intriguing cores all lined up age-wise.
 

Big John

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A Zion+anything offer tempts the Pelicans, but the problem is that AD won't re-sign with any those except the Knicks. All those other teams will do better to just keep Zion for themselves and start building.
Well, AD says he won't resign in Boston either. So maybe the Celtics will do better to keep Tatum for themselves and continue contending. That's my view, anyway.
 

PedroKsBambino

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NOLA doesn't need to posture with Celtics, I don't believe. The alternative to Celts trading for Davis in July is other trades, or simply Davis reaching free agency and signing in LA. Celts have plenty of incentive to make a deal here regardless of what NOLA says publicly about any of this.
 

Big John

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Could Davis change his mind about Boston? Sure. But I think it's against the odds. Klutch is saying what Davis wants them to say.
 

cheech13

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Knowing what we know now, what does Boston have to offer this summer to beat the Lakers best offer? The Celtics have the best individual piece in Tatum, but that alone isn't going to be enough. Does their offer also include Brown? Some combination of the extra picks (LAC/Mem/Sac)? Hayward? Lots of different ways to construct a palatable deal for both sides, but the cost is going to be outrageous. There's also the chance the Knicks win the lottery and Zion is probably the one piece that trumps Tatum.

Very impressed with how the Pelicans have handled this. They basically forced LAL to play their entire hand and can now wait until the summer to bring in other suitors. I guess the only potential downside risk would be Kryie bolting and Tatum getting pulled off the table. But even then I think they could still get all or most of what LAL is willing to offer.
 
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cheech13

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Could Davis change his mind about Boston? Sure. But I think it's against the odds. Klutch is saying what Davis wants them to say.
Boston isn't on Davis' list because they can't trade for him today. He doesn't want this to linger into the summer; he wants out of New Orleans now. If this thing drags out and Boston ultimately acquires him I think you'll see him change his stance on signing with the Celtics long-term.
 

DJnVa

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NOLA doesn't need to posture with Celtics, I don't believe. The alternative to Celts trading for Davis in July is other trades, or simply Davis reaching free agency and signing in LA. Celts have plenty of incentive to make a deal here regardless of what NOLA says publicly about any of this.
I wonder if the Pels and Celtics already have the parameters of a deal--I say this because if he doesn't get dealt this week, and we get to the summer, and the Celtics/Pels don't consummate a deal, the Lakers could say "Hey---sorry you couldn't work it would with Boston, here's our revised downward deal."
 

Big John

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Boston isn't on Davis' list because they can't trade for him today. He doesn't want this to linger into the summer; he wants out of New Orleans now. If this thing drags out and Boston ultimately acquires him I think you'll see him change his stance on signing with the Celtics long-term.
I'm sure that's Ainge's hope as well. But once the playoffs begin, lottery teams and eliminated teams are free to trade, and when the lottery takes place on May 14, we'll know who has the No. 1 pick. So the Lakers are just the first suitor that Ainge has to fend off before July 1.
 

OnWisc

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I wonder if the Pels and Celtics already have the parameters of a deal--I say this because if he doesn't get dealt this week, and we get to the summer, and the Celtics/Pels don't consummate a deal, the Lakers could say "Hey---sorry you couldn't work it would with Boston, here's our revised downward deal."
Come this summer, I think there's a counterweight there where the Lakers can only walk back their offer so much before they risk AD getting annoyed that they are nickel and diming and becoming more open to sticking around elsewhere.

If LA revises their offer meaningfully downward, then someone will beat it for a year of AD and the chance he sticks around. If LA revises their offer marginally downward, I think all NO would have to do is pause and whatever is on the table today would be their again in its entirety.