I was wondering this as well ie that this pick could be turned into help for the D before the trading deadline.
Jimmy G to 49ers for 2nd round pick
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
It depends what one thinks the role really is, right?
It's easy to believe Hoyer is more experienced at running an effective scout team, holding the clipboard for TB, and contributing useful thoughts in the QB prep sessions. Those things matter (well, the first and third do).
If the role is 'starting games against good NFL defenses' neither is great, but Kaep is clearly a better (less bad?) bet. But how much of the value do Pats think that is over the next 8 games?
It's easy to believe Hoyer is more experienced at running an effective scout team, holding the clipboard for TB, and contributing useful thoughts in the QB prep sessions. Those things matter (well, the first and third do).
If the role is 'starting games against good NFL defenses' neither is great, but Kaep is clearly a better (less bad?) bet. But how much of the value do Pats think that is over the next 8 games?
Around $5 million before adding a backup QB. Any trade tomorrow if for an impact guy will have to include a player off the roster.
Yup -- if they are going to try to bring someone in this year it needs to be a pretty cost controlled player, especially now that they also need to sign a veteran QB.
A good cost controlled player won't be cheap in terms of what they would have to give back.
Fucking night before Halloween
Is this BB's idea of putting a flaming bag of shit on the porch?
He couldn't have gotten a LB, edge rusher or some candy corn thrown in?
Is this BB's idea of putting a flaming bag of shit on the porch?
He couldn't have gotten a LB, edge rusher or some candy corn thrown in?
Kaepernick came out of nowhere and got the Niners to a Super Bowl because defensive coordinators didn't know how to defend the read option. The following year they learned to contain that and make him beat them with his arm. The guy would overthrow wide-open guys 10 yards downfield, and had no touch whatsoever. He's a sympathetic figure due to being blackballed over politics, but he just is not a good QB.
Kaep is almost certainly better at QB but Hoyer has played in NE and in similar systems and plays similarly(though obviously much worse than TB) while Kaep plays a totally different game.
Without all the other stuff I doubt Kaep would be who BB would pick, with it I'd be completely shocked.
Re: bankshot
If the 34th pick in next year’s draft for 8 games of a backup is flaming shit. I tend to think its valuable as this team is likely to draft an impact defender instead of this nonsense someone is trading them one tomorrow.
If the 34th pick in next year’s draft for 8 games of a backup is flaming shit. I tend to think its valuable as this team is likely to draft an impact defender instead of this nonsense someone is trading them one tomorrow.
How does Kirk Cousins feel about this? Wasn't SF considered his prime landing spot?
I like it. The SF second rounder is going to be lower in the round. SF gets to try out Jimmy. NE gets valuable asset.
Was NE ever going to franchise Jimmy G?
I like it. The SF second rounder is going to be lower in the round. SF gets to try out Jimmy. NE gets valuable asset.
Was NE ever going to franchise Jimmy G?
I don’t think anyone is disputing Hoyer is any better than a career back-up. He has proven in several places that he isn’t.
But he is more valuable as a back up in NE than Kap over the next 8 games. That too is indisputable.
The TB successor will not be on the roster this season.
Maybe but as was pointed out earlier the way Gilmore has looked this year may have convinced BB that he needs the tag for Butler.
Exactly. To get a pseudo-1st rd pick for someone who is making no impact on the current team is a steal. They know Brady is going to be there for the next 3 years so why spend the money on 2 QBs? It never made any sense to keep both. To get the 33rd or 34th pick for Jimmy is good value.
it's pretty self-evident that it's not "indisputable," given that many people are disputing it in this thread.
i have yet to see a single person make a case based on stats that kaep isn't the best guy available to any NFL team today. because there isn't one.
34th pick isn't bad but it provides no help this year, and say what you want about Jacoby B but his trade (with the trading of JG a distinct possibility) for a JAG WR, seems not well thought out.
We will never know whether in an ideal world they would have transition/franchise tagged JG. The people who said “never” seem more right than wrong. But when they said it on the eve of the draft this NEP team looked a lot more solid than it proved to be — especially on defense, and especially in the front 7. It is quite possible, maybe even likely, that B.B. decided JG was a luxury they could not afford given very significant needs that have to be addressed ASAP after this season ends.
QBR is probably not the stat you want to use to make that case for him--Kaepernick was 23rd in the league in QBR last year and 29th the year before that. 2013 was the only year he was in the top half of the league (though he was well within it, at 7th).
http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2016
http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2015
(Hoyer has been even worse by QBR)
For the next 8 games? They are talking through their ass. Kap has played no football this year, has no experience in the Pats offense, and they are not going to retool the offense in two months to suit Kap if TB goes down.
Common sense people.
23rd in the league perfectly supports my argument. it would mean he's better than quite a few starters, and nearly all backups. i'm not saying he's a pro-bowler. i'm saying he's the best guy available. who's better by QBR? or by any metric other than "held brady's jock 8 years ago"?
Jason La CanforaVerified account @JasonLaCanfora 14m14 minutes ago
For more thoughts after talking to GMs regarding Jimmy G trade - Pats will deal this pick by 4pm, most likely for a DL...
For more thoughts after talking to GMs regarding Jimmy G trade - Pats will deal this pick by 4pm, most likely for a DL...
Hoyer will be an 8 game backup and emergency starter in worst case scenario’s. He’ll be here because he’s the quickest to get up to speed on our system for the remainder of this year. Not because he projects to be QB1 in 2020.
we've seen what hoyer can do in an offense he knows, getting first team reps, in the playoffs. it's non-competitive.
there is at least a possibility that kaepernick is competitive. it could be a complete bust, but if brady goes down for the season, OF COURSE they re-tool the offense for whoever is their QB if it gives them the best chance to win. running the same system with hoyer gives them zero chance. zero.
I'll buy that he's better than most of the backups and a few starters, but that's a far different claim from saying that he's better than "half the starters in the league".
That makes sense. Other GM’s will know who Cesario has been calling about the last few days. So if we’ve shown great interest in a few players but didn’t have what they wanted to complete a trade, this gets us the asset to complete trade with another team. Gonna be an interesting Halloween.
Where is this narrative that Kaep is a great QB coming from?
2015-16 Hoyer was a better QB than 2015-16 Kaep in every stat except rushing yards.
Hoyer was much more accurate, threw for more yards per game, higher average YPA and more TDs, fewer INTs.
Hoyer sucked this year but he has an abysmal cast around him.
Hoyer is fine as a backup.
2015-16 Hoyer was a better QB than 2015-16 Kaep in every stat except rushing yards.
Hoyer was much more accurate, threw for more yards per game, higher average YPA and more TDs, fewer INTs.
Hoyer sucked this year but he has an abysmal cast around him.
Hoyer is fine as a backup.
The Kaep talk is insane to me - and that's without considering the distraction. Hoyer is a former backup in this system. Kaep's been on the sidelines, has no knowledge of the system and his playing style is ill-suited for this system. If we've learned anything over the years a fit for the system pretty much trumps everything except generational talent. The Pats have proven they can take B level players and get Grade A production because said player fits the system .
Its like no one has seen Hoyer play since he left NE.
I look forward to BB trading this #2 for another special teams linebacker.
Because it wasn't available. I gotta think that they didn't just say yes to the first call.
BB will want someone who is cheap (they need an impact player at the deadline) and who can step in quickly.
If TB gets hurt for an extended amount of time, it’s game over anyway.
In other words, Kap does have a higher ceiling, but it’s about the floor...and the price.
There is no realistic possibility. They’d be throwing Kap a big fat playbook he has never seen before and, assuming he digested that, they don’t have enough snaps in practice to get him up to speed. You don’t see moves like this in week 8. Kap would make sense only if you are prepared to move forward with him next season.
I’ve got a silent bet with myself that it will be for a player I’ve never heard of.
well, his 2016 rating would be 14th in the league today. now, granted, it's fair to say he'd project worse than that being thrust in with little prep, so i'm not really saying this to split hair between whether he's better than half the starters in the league or merely a third... just pointing out that he's much, much better than anyone else out there.
Exactly this. Doesn’t matter who the back up is, if Brady goes down the season is over regardless.
So story from ESPN is that the Pats have tried since the spring to sign Jimmy G and when it became clear they couldn’t, they traded him - makes sense to me. Don’t see the problem with the deal if Jimmy G wouldn’t sign - no way they would franchise him, would cripple your team.
I agree with a poster upthread that the value of having Jimmy for half a season and a #2 trumps no Jimmy and a #1. We rode the Jimmy G train as long as possible but it's apparent that BB believes Brady has at least another season of high level player after this (and probably 2 given how well he's playing along with his training, diet, smarts).
Given how likely that the SF pick will be at the top of the 2nd, it wouldn't surprise me if BB dangles the Pats' #1 instead. He saves salary and cap if he does so. I'd be thrilled if the pick is moved for an impact defensive player this season. If it's not, might BB go back to the strategy of trading a #2 for a future #1?
Given how likely that the SF pick will be at the top of the 2nd, it wouldn't surprise me if BB dangles the Pats' #1 instead. He saves salary and cap if he does so. I'd be thrilled if the pick is moved for an impact defensive player this season. If it's not, might BB go back to the strategy of trading a #2 for a future #1?
Hold the fort. One post from Rapsheet doesn't "prove" anything right or wrong. It's not a surprise when various sources contradict each other, but we have no reason to declare one of them as "proof" than the others are wrong.
Who cares? The job of the backup QB for the Patriots is to play for the scout team, contribute at QB meetings, and at most be familiar enough with the offense to play passable football in the event Tom has to miss a game or two. If Brady goes down with a season ending injury, the backup is irrelevant as far as this team going anywhere in the playoffs (if we are really deciding between Hoyer and Kapernick).
If we couldn't predict the team we follow religiously would deal their backup QB, there's little chance we'll know what DLs are available.
Kaepernicks fumble stats alone are disqualifying. The cold hard facts is the he was an absolutely terrible QB after teams figured out the Read option. He does not have the accuracy or seemingly the awareness to play QB in a system that does not rely on that type of gimmick.
I don’t know why that is hard for people to accept. We’ve seen Kap trying to throw the football. It’s not pretty.
There is not a football based argument for him being on the Patriots this season.
I don’t know why that is hard for people to accept. We’ve seen Kap trying to throw the football. It’s not pretty.
There is not a football based argument for him being on the Patriots this season.
With the state of QB play in this league this is demonstrably false with Jimmy G back there.
Kidding aside, it seems like there are very few DL that are available, good enough to be worth a 33 pick, and will fit under the cap.
Trevathan would be a good fit for this team, but I think 33 would be an overpay.
Trevathan would be a good fit for this team, but I think 33 would be an overpay.