Conference Realignment Thread

SoxScout

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Syracuse University and the University of Pittsburgh, two bedrock members of the Big East Conference, are engaged in talks about joining the Atlantic Coast Conference, according to a source with direct knowledge of the talks.

No one from Pittsburgh, Syracuse or the A.C.C. denied the conversations were taking place. Officials from all three entities declined to comment on the matter.

The person with knowledge of the talks declined to speculate on a timetable or the seriousness of the discussions. But in this delicate time for conferences and their futures, the discussions between the 12-team A.C.C. and two Big East members are significant.

The discussions show how the trend toward 16-team super conferences that has concerned many college athletics officials appears to be inching closer to reality. If Syracuse and Pittsburgh switch, the move would be difficult for the Big East to overcome. They are two of the conference’s most important programs. Syracuse is a founding member, and Pittsburgh joined the league in 1982, three years after it formed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/sports/ncaafootball/syracuse-and-pitt-in-talks-with-acc.html?_r=1&ref=sports
 

DJnVa

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ESPN now reporting the same thing. No link it was on the their college football show.
 

DukeSox

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damn it hurts how right I am.

and how lame the big east is
 

RedOctober3829

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I've thought all along that Syracuse would try to jump to the Big East, so it isn't a surprise to me. Pitt is attractive to the Big Ten and ACC as well. The big keys are whether Texas and Oklahoma officially jump ship to the Pac-12 because that will set everything else in motion. Eventually, I think you'll see Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, and UConn going to the ACC.
 

Jinhocho

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The Big Ten and SEC would immediately lock in schools to get to 16.....SEC likely Va Tech/Missouri/Clemson or Fla St.......Big Ten...thats a bit tougher.
Its commong thinking across the south that the Virginia governor and legislature will never ever let VA Tech and VA be split up...Big Ten is interested in Maryland...
 

Jinhocho

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Just heard long discussion on this on NC sports talk radio, with a reporter who covers the ACC.

Syracuse and Pitt have submitted apps. Wouldnt have gotten to this point if it wasnt a done deal. Real interest in ACC in surviving and thriving. Texas has "reached out to the ACC," but nothing settled yet. ACC will be at 16 teams before all is said and done. Been wanting to act quickly and decisively before others poach their team. Increasing the buyout for teams to leave to 20million is thought to address risk of folks leaving. Big East and ACC had some kind of talks about the changing college landscape. Expected to be some anger from Big East given history, the strong tradition of the leaving schools in Big East, and the Pitt AD (think it was AD) who has been playing a leading role in the whole conference realignment process. Term used on the radio was belief he was like a "fox in the henhouse" during these discussion. That was the gist of it.
 

RedOctober3829

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Just heard long discussion on this on NC sports talk radio, with a reporter who covers the ACC.

Syracuse and Pitt have submitted apps. Wouldnt have gotten to this point if it wasnt a done deal. Real interest in ACC in surviving and thriving. Texas has "reached out to the ACC," but nothing settled yet. ACC will be at 16 teams before all is said and done. Been wanting to act quickly and decisively before others poach their team. Increasing the buyout for teams to leave to 20million is thought to address risk of folks leaving. Big East and ACC had some kind of talks about the changing college landscape. Expected to be some anger from Big East given history, the strong tradition of the leaving schools in Big East, and the Pitt AD (think it was AD) who has been playing a leading role in the whole conference realignment process. Term used on the radio was belief he was like a "fox in the henhouse" during these discussion. That was the gist of it.
IIRC, it was the Pitt chancellor Mark Nordenberg who was quoted. He was instrumental in keeping the Big East together after the ACC added that middling Catholic school in Boston among others.
 

Hendu's Gait

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So is Providence doomed to join the A-10 eventually, or could Big East B-ball survive?
Gtown, Nova, St. John's (and maybe Marquette-not sure if geography has become annoying for them) have some real work ahead of them, for sure. If you can convince Louisville and Cincy to go independent in football, and keep Notre Dame, Providence can be your eighth team to form a very decent bball conference, still probably a top-4. With Seton Hall as your ND safety school.

It does look like WVA, Uconn and Rutgers, certainly 1 of the 3, will make moves somewhere, too.
 

DJnVa

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So is Providence doomed to join the A-10 eventually, or could Big East B-ball survive?
If the Big East is to survive they are going to have to pull in some A-10 and CAA teams. But that might have to be basketball only...or at least, exclude football, because the CAA isn't breaking up their FCS football league.
 

Jinhocho

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I am assuming the ACC is holding out two spots for Texas and whoever they want to bring but UConn seems to make a lot of sense for the ACC now. BC Cuse Maryland Uconn make a nice NE crew...I am assuming BC wants no part of UConnn in the ACC?
 

Zososoxfan

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The Pitt and Cuse news confirms what I thought that the days of the Bigeast as we know it are numbered.

The biggest chips left on the table appear to be Rutgers, WVA, USF, and UConn in the Bigeast, and obviously OU (and OKSU if it's really a pair deal) and UT in the the Big12. This should come as no surprise, but how the Big12ers go will determine how things go.

I'm surprised that there's so much talk of UT to the ACC. While the FSU, Miami, and VTech matchups would be fun, I feel any of the other 3 major conferences would be better fits.

I know the Big10 wants to expand east (ideally to capture the lucrative northeast and/or midatlantic market), but I wouldn't mind seeing a West/South expansion as well (the big10 would still have to add 4 to be a 16-team conference) by adding Mizzou and ideally some or all of the big boys. In other words, best case scenario in a hypothetical for the B10 in which the academic component doesn't matter as much (and if you're talking about adding OU, it shouldn't), would be to add OU, OKSU, UT, and ND. Since it's entirely possible and perhaps even likely that none of those 4 join, it's a real possibility that Rutgers, WVA, Mizzou, and some other team make up the final 4 programs to join the B10. It obviously makes a lot of geographic sense for WVA to join the ACC, but the B10 has a lot to offer schools, so that should hold a lot of sway.

As a side note, the 4 x 16 conference alignment has its problems, but if it gets the ncaa closer to a playoff, which I think it does, I'm all for it.
 

Jinhocho

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The Pitt and Cuse news confirms what I thought that the days of the Bigeast as we know it are numbered.

The biggest chips left on the table appear to be Rutgers, WVA, USF, and UConn in the Bigeast, and obviously OU (and OKSU if it's really a pair deal) and UT in the the Big12. This should come as no surprise, but how the Big12ers go will determine how things go.

I'm surprised that there's so much talk of UT to the ACC. While the FSU, Miami, and VTech matchups would be fun, I feel any of the other 3 major conferences would be better fits.

I know the Big10 wants to expand east (ideally to capture the lucrative northeast and/or midatlantic market), but I wouldn't mind seeing a West/South expansion as well (the big10 would still have to add 4 to be a 16-team conference) by adding Mizzou and ideally some or all of the big boys. In other words, best case scenario in a hypothetical for the B10 in which the academic component doesn't matter as much (and if you're talking about adding OU, it shouldn't), would be to add OU, OKSU, UT, and ND. Since it's entirely possible and perhaps even likely that none of those 4 join, it's a real possibility that Rutgers, WVA, Mizzou, and some other team make up the final 4 programs to join the B10. It obviously makes a lot of geographic sense for WVA to join the ACC, but the B10 has a lot to offer schools, so that should hold a lot of sway.

As a side note, the 4 x 16 conference alignment has its problems, but if it gets the ncaa closer to a playoff, which I think it does, I'm all for it.

Rumble I heard on the radio coming from an interview on 99 the fan in raleigh w the horns beat writer in austin is that:

1) Huge concern for Texas is their TV deal. If they go to the PAC-10 they basically dont get to keep the revenue as the pac 10 is one of if not the most restrictive conference in that regard.
2) ACC and Texas are both on ESPN and ESPN has been doing a lot behind the scenes in this whole realignment debate.
3) ACC deal gets redone automatically if they add 2 or more than 2 (cant remember) more teams. Thinking is if Texas comes in the they redo the deal and can kind of grandfather Texas into it w the Longhorn Network. It would buy them 12 years or so.
4) Thinking was it would be Texas +1 coming in if it happened. No idea who the +1 is at this point.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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I'm surprised that there's so much talk of UT to the ACC. While the FSU, Miami, and VTech matchups would be fun, I feel any of the other 3 major conferences would be better fits.
The more I hear about what is allegedly going on with realignment, the less I know.

The one thing I am reasonably confident of is that Texas has multiple discussions going on right now, and that for the Texas admin, the most important consideration is how the Longhorn Network fits into the next conference they join. I believe that Powers and Dodds believe that the LHN is a transformative power in college athletics, and that they will use all of their negotiating resources and leverage to try to keep the LHN in its current format. For the moment, that would seem to rule out the PAC, and perhaps the B1G, but not the ACC, which is why I think all these latest rumors have Texas leaning that way. But there are so many interest groups here that no one except the principals really know what's going on. And since Chip Brown reported Texas to the ACC, I am kind of discounting that.

The Texas and OU regents meet on Monday (separately) to consider their respective universities' positions with regard to conference alignment. We may or may not know more after that.

I wonder if you can bet on this. The odds of any one outcome have to be pretty colossal. Could be like winning the lottery.
 

ethangl

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And since Chip Brown reported Texas to the ACC, I am kind of discounting that.
Chip is now reporting the ACC thing is off.

The Ath Dept is very selective in what they leak to him. He is on the outside looking in. So if he gets word about the ACC, in all likelihood we are using them as a stalking horse to put pressure on another conference.
 

StuckOnYouk

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I still have to think the ACC would take UConn if they go to 16, no? Geographically they fit as much if not more than Pitt and Cuse, they just won the basketball championship, appeared in a BCS bowl and jumped up to 58th in the newest USN&WR college rankings, tying them with Pitt and ahead of Cuse (62).

And in the past few years they were in hot water with the NCAA's over the Nate Miles case. That also would tie them into some of the ACC institutions and their misgivings right now.
 

bsj

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The team that really played their hand too early in all of this? TCU.
I wonder if they negotiated an "out" clause that allows them to walk away from this move if the Big East landscape changes...you would think they would have been silly not to have thought something like this was possible...
 

ethangl

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I wonder if they negotiated an "out" clause that allows them to walk away from this move if the Big East landscape changes...you would think they would have been silly not to have thought something like this was possible...
Walk away to go..... where?
 

StuckOnYouk

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I am assuming the ACC is holding out two spots for Texas and whoever they want to bring but UConn seems to make a lot of sense for the ACC now. BC Cuse Maryland Uconn make a nice NE crew...I am assuming BC wants no part of UConnn in the ACC?
If the ACC goes all the way to 16, and they look to expand up through the Northeast, they could take UConn and Rutgers, maybe do a north and south division, something like this.

North
BC
UConn
Cuse
Pitt
Rutgers
Maryland
Virginia
Va Tech

South
Clemson
Fl State
Wake
Duke
UNC
Gtech
NC State
Miami
 

berniecarbo1

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I still have to think the ACC would take UConn if they go to 16, no? Geographically they fit as much if not more than Pitt and Cuse, they just won the basketball championship, appeared in a BCS bowl and jumped up to 58th in the newest USN&WR college rankings, tying them with Pitt and ahead of Cuse (62).

And in the past few years they were in hot water with the NCAA's over the Nate Miles case. That also would tie them into some of the ACC institutions and their misgivings right now.
It would fit. They are an Eastern school, have a student population of around 10,000 or more, are in the Top 100 of the US News and World Report rankings ( a much bigger deal than many might think) obviously have a huge hoops upside, a legit D1 football program (and football drives the bus, let's not forget that) and a football stadium capacity of more than 35,000. That is the "minimum requirements" to join the ACC, if not in writing then clearly by the profile of their schools.

The major hurdle for UConn is BC. There is still huge bad blood in the upper administration of BC towards UConn, as we all know. Fr. Leahy has a lot of cache in the ACC, more than many think. The ACC can literally pick any of the football playing BE schools to add to the conference. It should be noted that Pitt and Syracuse both fit the minimum requiremnts as well. They add Pitt and Syracuse, you now have 14 schools in the ACC and the BE is screwed. It would be hard to justify them keeping their BCS designation over the MWC for example on a going forward basis.

Don't be surprised if the ACC not only grabs Pitt and the 'Cuse, but also goes after TCU. They fit the mold too, #97 in the USNW, 9500 students, Texas market, has an on campus stadium that will have a capacity of 40,000 in 2012 with plans to boost it to 50,000 over the next few years...and it is the Rose Bowl champion.

UConn better do something. If not the ACC, perhaps the B1G, or band with the remainder of the BE football schools and merge with the Big XII for the other superconference. They could be the Kansas of the East...great hoops, state school, legit D1 football.

It will all be interesting.
 

ethangl

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I dont know. But the Big East without Syracuse and Pitt is a sinking ship...its suddenly a far inferior option than a dying Big 12 for them...
The Big 12 is not an option. Either A) it continues to exist because OU and UT have stayed -- and there would be no interest in adding TCU, or B) it's a memory.

To respond to Sea Bass, I actually disagree -- TCU didn't overplay their hand, they just never had one in the first place.
 

gopats84

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ACC going to 16 teams could really shake things up, not only with poaching the Big East but affecting the next move of the SEC. Lost in the shuffle is where the SEC is going to get its 14th team to add with Texas A&M. The assumption all along is it would target one of the ACC teams to keep the east/west alignment in balance. But if the ACC is solidfying its membership by expanding and increasing the buyout, that takes a lot of options off the table for the SEC. Really the only two pieces left on the board are Missouri and West Virginia, not sure either of them is a good fit. SEC can't rationally go with 13 team from a scheduling standpoint.

I wonder if the SEC can't find an acceptable 14th team if they reject A&M and stay at 12 teams. That could save the Big XII, which could go grab TCU and BYU to get back to 12.
 

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TCU didn't overplay their hand, they just never had one in the first place.
They played the only hand they had. No other conference was looking for a team at the time (B1G already had its eyes on Neb and Col). For the time being, it got them into an AQ conference. Good for them. I would have thought they are, on balance, attractive enough to remain in an AQ conference, if they are smart about it. They bring a decent demographic (while they don't deliver the DFW market, they're in it and that's meaningful. As long as they can be convincing that they will remain competitive on the field, they should land on their feet.

I am convinced that this year's realignment is only a way station until 2014-2015 settles everything for a long time. TCU (along with anyone else kind of on the margin of this discussion) needs to remain very competitive until then and they should be fine.
 

bsj

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As a Syracuse fan, I have been clamoring for this move for years. I love it. I hope it comes to fruition. I love that we get to reengage BC in an annual game, and love that we can form a new rivalry with Maryland (a school I always felt we had a ton in common with).

i hope we are able to bring UConn over...the rivalry with UConn is the one I am going to miss...I also really hope we leave Rutgers behind.

BC probably is going to lobby against UConn joining...and I think that Syracuse is going to make the same case against Rutgers.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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Regardless of what happens with the SEC, A&M is not going back to the Big 12.
This is kind of the icing on the cake. I know some kind of realignment is coming (yes, I am that insightful), so it amuses me that A&M won't be able to make their move (at least officially) until Texas decides what to do. The aggy boards are on fire.
 

bsj

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ESPN reporting Baylor and Iowa State have reached out to the Big East about joining.

TCU AD is "concerned".

Ya think?

What a weird conference that would be.
 

SoxScout

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orangebloods says cuse and pitt will be made official tomorrow.
 

SoxScout

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If they ever go to 4 super conferences, will the whole system be blown up and made regional, or is it basically build what you can with the best schools you can now, then there will just be tweaking?
 

StuckOnYouk

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orangebloods says cuse and pitt will be made official tomorrow.
Pitt celebrating moving from one mediocre football conference to another mediocre football conference by having a meltdown and losing to Iowa. Gave up 21 pts in the 4th qtr.

Goodbye fuckers.
 

Captaincoop

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Pitt is celebrating the fact that their football program will remain relevant, unlike UConn. This move can't be painted as anything but awesome for Pitt and Cuse.
 

StuckOnYouk

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Pitt is celebrating the fact that their football program will remain relevant, unlike UConn. This move can't be painted as anything but awesome for Pitt and Cuse.
It's a great move, yes. But it's ironic that as football "Drives the bus", the ACC is ending the Big East by taking two football schools that are so-so at best.
But UConn has to get their shit together and do something, no doubt
 

Senator Donut

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I'd have more to say if I had a full keyboard in front of me, but let me just point out what an incredible failure of leadership by John Marinatto and the Big East. They got the deal they wanted from ESPN and walked away from it. Meanwhile, the ACC got assurances from its membership by increasing the buyout to $20 million. I'm disgusted by the "leadership" exhibited by our conference.
 
It's a great move, yes. But it's ironic that as football "Drives the bus", the ACC is ending the Big East by taking two football schools that are so-so at best.
But UConn has to get their shit together and do something, no doubt
I have to believe that UConn is doing something or other behind the scenes. Herbst is no dummy and she previously administered the University System of Georgia. She had to have some experience with this realignment BS, both with the SEC and ACC through UGA and Gatech.
 

mauf

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I still have to think the ACC would take UConn if they go to 16, no? Geographically they fit as much if not more than Pitt and Cuse, they just won the basketball championship, appeared in a BCS bowl and jumped up to 58th in the newest USN&WR college rankings, tying them with Pitt and ahead of Cuse (62).
UConn will be fine because they dominate a midsize TV market, not because they're seen as academically on par with Pitt and 'Cuse.

Academics are important, but no one metric (AAU affiliation, USN&WR ratings, etc.) tells the whole story. Pittsburgh's world-class medical school and impressive endowment make it easily the most attractive of these three schools from an academic standpoint. UConn's paltry endowment and New England location (the public schools here are widely considered shit in academic circles, with the possible exception of UVM) make it less attractive than its US News ranking suggests. Syracuse falls somewhere in between.

Edit: Oh yeah, Pitt is AAU -- not surprising, considering the reputation Pittsburgh enjoyed 50 years ago (when it was a private university).
 

Senator Donut

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UConn will be fine because they dominate a midsize TV market, not because they're seen as academically on par with Pitt and 'Cuse.

Academics are important, but no one metric (AAU affiliation, USN&WR ratings, etc.) tells the whole story. Pittsburgh's world-class medical school and impressive endowment make it easily the most attractive of these three schools from an academic standpoint. UConn's paltry endowment and New England location (the public schools here are widely considered shit in academic circles, with the possible exception of UVM) make it less attractive than its US News ranking suggests. Syracuse falls somewhere in between.
I used to think academics meant something until the Big Ten invited a school ranked lower than every one of its members and the only school outside the AAU. Academics is only relevant with regards to schools like Boise State.
 

mauf

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It's a great move, yes. But it's ironic that as football "Drives the bus", the ACC is ending the Big East by taking two football schools that are so-so at best.
But UConn has to get their shit together and do something, no doubt
Your view is too short. Pittsburgh and Syracuse each have a long tradition of big-time football -- probably more so than any other Big East schools.

I think that's driving the bus here -- it's certainly not TV money, and while Pitt is strong academically, Syracuse isn't dramatically better than UConn, and it's probably not better than Rutgers at all.
 

gtg807y

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I talked to a friend in the administration at the GT game today and he said he thinks a vote on Syracuse and Pitt already happened, and that they actually expected the news to break yesterday. Unsurprisingly, he was skeptical of any "Texas to the ACC" talk.

Gonna be one heck of a basketball conference.

Edit: if Chip Brown says Texas to the ACC still has some life, I'll believe it. I'd be fine with it, adding a baseball heavyweight to balance out the other new additions' mediocrity in that sport. And maybe the ACC title game at the Jerrahdome. Hell, every ACC tournament at the Jerrahdome.
 

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A huge deal is being made about UT and the LHN (as it should), but if ND thinks it needs to get into a conference, that could change things drastically as well. For instance, let's say OU and OKSU go Pac10, UT goes ACC, and the bigeast implodes, ND +1 could move fairly seamlessly to the B10 (likely with Mizzou, or one of the better Bigeast programs). That also leaves the rest of the Bigeast to go ACC and SEC.

On a related note, is there any chance that ND goes to the ACC instead of the B10 if they go the conference route? Also, how do UT's actions affect ND's?
 

gtg807y

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A huge deal is being made about UT and the LHN (as it should), but if ND thinks it needs to get into a conference, that could change things drastically as well. For instance, let's say OU and OKSU go Pac10, UT goes ACC, and the bigeast implodes, ND +1 could move fairly seamlessly to the B10 (likely with Mizzou, or one of the better Bigeast programs). That also leaves the rest of the Bigeast to go ACC and SEC.

On a related note, is there any chance that ND goes to the ACC instead of the B10 if they go the conference route? Also, how do UT's actions affect ND's?
I definitely think there's a chance, if the ACC needs #16. They always say they want to play a national schedule, but look who they play now - BC, Maryland, Wake, they've played FSU (relatively) recently. ND can have an 8-game ACC schedule that includes the teams they currently play anyway, with room for USC, Michigan, etc. And if the ACC is fine letting Texas keep their LHN, presumably they'd be fine with ND having their own NBC deal, at least for its duration.
 

ethangl

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A huge deal is being made about UT and the LHN (as it should), but if ND thinks it needs to get into a conference, that could change things drastically as well.  For instance, let's say OU and OKSU go Pac10, UT goes ACC, and the bigeast implodes, ND +1 could move fairly seamlessly to the B10 (likely with Mizzou, or one of the better Bigeast programs).  That also leaves the rest of the Bigeast to go ACC and SEC.

On a related note, is there any chance that ND goes to the ACC instead of the B10 if they go the conference route?  Also, how do UT's actions affect ND's?
I think it's entirely conceivable that both UT and ND join the ACC in every sport except Football, maintaining financial independence but also developing a strong informal association with a conference that now looks like it has some legs. They'd play each other every year, and another 3-4 games against ACC teams every year.
 

mauf

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I think it's entirely conceivable that both UT and ND join the ACC in every sport except Football, maintaining financial independence but also developing a strong informal association with a conference that now looks like it has some legs. They'd play each other every year, and another 3-4 games against ACC teams every year.
I think Notre Dame will either remain independent or join the Big 10. I don't see the alums buying into ND playing football against the likes of Duke, or academically being in the same conference as Clemson and Florida State.

If the ACC adds Rutgers and UConn, which together with Syracuse would make them the dominant player in NYC (at least for football), that might make the economic case compelling enough for the administration to buck the alumni, but even then, I'm skeptical.
 

ethangl

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I think Notre Dame will either remain independent or join the Big 10. I don't see the alums buying into ND playing football against the likes of Duke
The Duke team that just beat the other ACC team that ND plays every year? Okay. To clarify, I should have said that I could see UT playing 3-4 ACC games in that arrangement -- I don't know or care if ND would schedule any other ACC programs besides BC.

or academically being in the same conference as Clemson and Florida State.
Which is somehow worse than Nebraska, Iowa, or Michigan State? Or WVU and Lousiville, who they obviously were fine with? Okay. The numbers will tell you that Clemson and FSU are both more selective than a bunch of Big 10 schools. Let's not pretend that a conference with UVA, Duke, UNC, Wake Forest, Maryland, Georgia Tech, BC, Miami and potentially Texas doesn't more than hold its own against a bunch of land grant schools in the midwest. Sheesh.
 

SumnerH

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If the ACC goes all the way to 16, and they look to expand up through the Northeast, they could take UConn and Rutgers, maybe do a north and south division, something like this.

North
BC
UConn
Cuse
Pitt
Rutgers
Maryland
Virginia
Va Tech

South
Clemson
Fl State
Wake
Duke
UNC
Gtech
NC State
Miami
Swap UVA and Maryland with FSU and Miami, and call the divisions the ACC and the Big East (I guess technically you gotta ditch FSU for Georgetown or someone).

I don't think you go to 16 just for the sake of it if it means taking a Rutgers kind of program, though--if that's what you're looking at, you leave a slot open until the bitter end in hopes of getting a Texas/Notre Dame/etc. Obviously if UT is serious about joining now you jump on it, but I'm skeptical.