The Nation's Tears: Volume II

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streeter88

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They beat the Steelers in 2001 as seeming upstarts that had no business coming into their house and beating them in the AFCCG on their own turf. Then they did it again, in a season the Steelers went 15-1, in 2004 and fucking embarrassed them.

That season also marked the 'dynasty' talk, which Steeler fans don't like hearing be ascribed to anyone other than their own franchise. Steeler fans I know also hate the Cowboys and 49ers for similar reasons, but before NE they were the royalty of the AFC and their status has taken a ding. My most ardent Steeler friend relented after our most recent drubbing of them and the new ring and finally admitted how amazing Brady and the franchise are, but he still had to add 'call me when you get six'. It's almost entirely about status for most Steeler fans I know.
Just to remind myself, I went back and read the recap from nfl.com archives, and it describes that exact mindset as a result of the 2001 and 2004 losses.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060116203921/http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20050123_NE@PIT

And this link also describes that the 2004 Steelers believed the Patriots were taping the Steelers defensive signals during the regular season loss as well. So there were two heartbreaking losses, and the suggestion of cheating.
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/7/8/941076/the-12-most-heartbreaking-playoff
 

Kliq

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Steelers fans are also imo the douchiest of all fans for a number of reasons, but mainly because there seems to be this overwhelming feeling that simply being the PITTSBURGH STEELERS makes them automatically tougher and grittier than any other team. I remember before the AFCCG arguing with co-workers about how the Pats were going to blow out the Steelers and people were actually making the case that the Steelers had a chance because "their defense is really good and physical" even though their defense was piss poor.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Steelers fans are also imo the douchiest of all fans for a number of reasons, but mainly because there seems to be this overwhelming feeling that simply being the PITTSBURGH STEELERS makes them automatically tougher and grittier than any other team. I remember before the AFCCG arguing with co-workers about how the Pats were going to blow out the Steelers and people were actually making the case that the Steelers had a chance because "their defense is really good and physical" even though their defense was piss poor.
I don't particularly find Steelers fans douchey, but ymmv. They carry an air of royalty but they at least somewhat have earned it. I find most Cowboy fans douchey, and obviously the NY franchises. Redskins, but maybe that's because I lived in DC so long.

Probably also worth noting that many fanbases find us douchey, both out of jealousy and for the reasons you just noted. The genius of BB rubs a lot of people the wrong way and there's also a lot of seasons where we can look back and say we overrated a particular unit based on reputation. Earlier on it was defense, the last decade moreso offense.

Last years Pitt D was far from piss poor, their scheme on that game sucked and we were a bad matchup they couldn't adjust to. While I understand your point - that some kind of default 'toughness and grit' is part and parcel with a Steelers team - I think that's kind of ingrained with the city and carries over to the team. Blue collar is what they hang their hat on.
 

streeter88

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Edit: I have just asked the same question from ~11 posts above. Sorry Moondog80...

But it really isn't obvious between the Steelers and the Colts who dislikes the Pats more. I think the Ravens are less venomous due to fewer "wrongs".

Colts fans would have to hate the Pats as much as the Steelers fans do - if perhaps for different reasons.
 
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Bowhemian

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denver and seattle are the only 2 teams that couild beat u at least 4 out of 10 times
You mean right now, as in this year's teams? OK I will give you Seattle, as they seem to give the Pats trouble. But I am not so sure about Denver with Trevor Semian at QB.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I don't base this on extensive research but:
Steelers fans.
They hated us even before TB12 for the playoff losses in the 90's.
Steelers fans hate the Ravens more.

It's a no-brained for Jets fans. The envy that New York fans can bring, knowing what a dynasty feels like with their beloved yankees, is second to none.
 

pedro1918

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They beat the Steelers in 2001 as seeming upstarts that had no business coming into their house and beating them in the AFCCG on their own turf.
The Friday before that game, one of my Steeler-fan friends and I drove several hours to a funeral. Needless to say we talked about the game. I will never forget the dismissive attitude he had of the Patriots. I quote "I have no fear of the Patriots. They don't even belong here."

I don't think we spoke for about a month. He couldn't handle it.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Regardless of the fact that their teams have generally not been great or even very good during the BB/TB era, the answer is Jets, Bills and Dolphin fans. Owning the division for 17 years and beating each of those teams at least once a year, and usually twice, will leave a mark.
 

Hoya81

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I live in Eagles country and most fans (including my wife) have what can best be described as a burning hatred of the Pats for SB 39. Most of it is just bitterness that it was the best shot that the Reid-era Eagles, a colorful bunch that had several awful playoff losses and near-misses, had at winning the SB. It intensified somewhat after the big ESPN Spygate article from Wickersham and Van Natta where several unnamed Eagles alleged that BB had somehow stolen Philly's super secret gameplan.
 

paintcharge

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Regardless of the fact that their teams have generally not been great or even very good during the BB/TB era, the answer is Jets, Bills and Dolphin fans. Owning the division for 17 years and beating each of those teams at least once a year, and usually twice, will leave a mark.
I've lived in Bills country for the whole BB/Brady era. They, both the team and the fans treat Pats-Bills games like the Super Bowl.
 

simplyeric

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Steelers fans are also imo the douchiest of all fans for a number of reasons, but mainly because there seems to be this overwhelming feeling that simply being the PITTSBURGH STEELERS makes them automatically tougher and grittier than any other team. I remember before the AFCCG arguing with co-workers about how the Pats were going to blow out the Steelers and people were actually making the case that the Steelers had a chance because "their defense is really good and physical" even though their defense was piss poor.
I also got a kick out of how they tried to make it a moral issue too. I heard a lot of shade about how Brady dumped his baby-momma Bridget Moynahan in favor of Gisele, and how that made him bad person and the Steelers and Big Ben were better than that.

aaaahhhhahahahah. Yeah there you go, hang you hat on what a great upstanding citizen Ben Roethlisberger is. GJGE guys.

A couple of my Steelers-fan friends basically gave up on football because of that. They just decided they didn't want to root for Ben. They haven't completely shunned it, but I was surprised by the difference.
 

Granite Sox

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... But it really isn't obvious between the Steelers and the Colts who dislikes the Pats more. I think the Ravens are less venomous due to fewer "wrongs".

Colts fans would have to hate the Pats as much as the Steelers fans do - if perhaps for different reasons.
Having lived in Indianapolis from 2003-2016 (peak Patriots and peak Manning/Dungy/Polian Colts) I can say with great conviction that nothing turns a nice (if not naïve) Hoosier into a raging maniac like the NEP. Whether knowledgeable about football or just general Manning fanboys, these people go absolutely insane at the mere mention of the Patriots. Illogical and misinformed, they are literally incapable of rational thought when discussing the "rivalry".

I live in NH now, and have several Steelers friends (including my next door neighbor) who hate the Pats, but at this point it's because the Pats are now encroaching on their position at the top of the historical NFL heap. That and because they know Tomlin is not up to the task of taking down the Pats.
 

kenneycb

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Steelers fans hate the Ravens more.

It's a no-brained for Jets fans. The envy that New York fans can bring, knowing what a dynasty feels like with their beloved yankees, is second to none.
Well the bigger issue for them is the Mets/Jets fandom connection. So they only know what a dynasty feels like from afar. Which I love.
 

moondog80

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Turning it around, I hate the Steelers most. Unless it's a situation where the Pats would benefit otherwise, I happily root for the Ravens/Broncos/Colts against them.
 

j-man

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You mean right now, as in this year's teams? OK I will give you Seattle, as they seem to give the Pats trouble. But I am not so sure about Denver with Trevor Semian at QB.
yes even with Semian some forget had he not threw that int at the start of the 2nd q in 16 u score your only TD of that game off that pick had dever kept it 9-3 or 16-10 pats late i think that team wouild had found a win to win that game late now that plob is the denver homer in me but the Def played great that game had the den def not gagged aga KC @ den or layed a egg at SD at least we wouild made the playoffs
 

j-man

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Turning it around, I hate the Steelers most. Unless it's a situation where the Pats would benefit otherwise, I happily root for the Ravens/Broncos/Colts against them.
my dad is a steelers fan he can be smug about his team beating pitt in 11 might had been like a sb win to me

my uncle is also a pitt fan but very realtic about his team

do i hate the pats no i do not my dad jokes with me and sayes i am a fan of them

am i jealous maybe a littie but mostly at bill i like brady a lot and mr kraft i like kraft because he cares about make-a-wish bill just rubs me as joyless no fun i am sure he is a great guy but maybe part of the reason for this is bill parcellis is my fav coach of all time
 

Ed Hillel

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yes even with Semian some forget had he not threw that int at the start of the 2nd q in 16 u score your only TD of that game off that pick had dever kept it 9-3 or 16-10 pats late i think that team wouild had found a win to win that game late now that plob is the denver homer in me but the Def played great that game had the den def not gagged aga KC @ den or layed a egg at SD at least we wouild made the playoffs
Sure, but Pats have added 3 complete studs to their roster who didn't play in that game (Gronk, Cooks, Gilmore) and Denver hasn't gotten any better.

Though probably a 40% chance Gronk is done by the time they play again...
 

Reverend

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am i jealous maybe a littie but mostly at bill i like brady a lot and mr kraft i like kraft because he cares about make-a-wish bill just rubs me as joyless no fun i am sure he is a great guy but maybe part of the reason for this is bill parcellis is my fav coach of all time
 

j-man

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Sure, but Pats have added 3 complete studs to their roster who didn't play in that game (Gronk, Cooks, Gilmore) and Denver hasn't gotten any better.

Though probably a 40% chance Gronk is done by the time they play again...
G Bolies is haveing a great camp we traded for barabee and added Leary from dallas Mckenie is doing well at PR D Peko souhld help on run def we had no B Marshall ILB last year in the 2nd haif Ray and booker will be back by week 3 10 wins is probable esp with tanneyhill getting hurt and if denver is 6-3 or better it should be a great game


anyway as pats fans 19-0 can happen as i only see 2 hard reg season games @ den and vs oak if me or gunfitgher dont beat u then u are looking at 18-0 and a date with SEA or GB in sb 52

and if u do go 19-0 i wouild love to see the look on suhla and m morris face
 

Seels

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Turning it around, I hate the Steelers most. Unless it's a situation where the Pats would benefit otherwise, I happily root for the Ravens/Broncos/Colts against them.
Yup. Worst fans in sports, dirtiest players in recent memory. Always amazed me Hines Ward never took shit for being dirty. Everyone knows Harrison but Hines was just as dirty. One of the best parts about being a Pats fan is making that fan base who is high and mighty with 30 other franchises completely miserable. I love how defeated they are about their chances v Tom Brady ever.

The Tim Tebow game is probably my favorite non-Pats memory in the last 10 years.
 

Kliq

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Yup. Worst fans in sports, dirtiest players in recent memory. Always amazed me Hines Ward never took shit for being dirty. Everyone knows Harrison but Hines was just as dirty. One of the best parts about being a Pats fan is making that fan base who is high and mighty with 30 other franchises completely miserable. I love how defeated they are about their chances v Tom Brady ever.

The Tim Tebow game is probably my favorite non-Pats memory in the last 10 years.
I do love how the "vaunted" Steeler D somehow always gets roasted by the Patriots. Losing to Tebow because LeBeau just had to let Polamalu gamble is an all-time highlight.
 

Rook05

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The SI.com homepage pic of the Hall of Fame is fantastic. LDT is the only one wearing shorts, and he doesn't look happy.

Edit: Can't get the stupid file to load
 
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BaseballJones

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Just to remind myself, I went back and read the recap from nfl.com archives, and it describes that exact mindset as a result of the 2001 and 2004 losses.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060116203921/http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20050123_NE@PIT

And this link also describes that the 2004 Steelers believed the Patriots were taping the Steelers defensive signals during the regular season loss as well. So there were two heartbreaking losses, and the suggestion of cheating.
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/7/8/941076/the-12-most-heartbreaking-playoff
To be fair, the Patriots almost certainly WERE taping the Steelers' defensive signals in 2004. It was going on for years before 2007, right?
 

Ed Hillel

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To be fair, the Patriots almost certainly WERE taping the Steelers' defensive signals in 2004. It was going on for years before 2007, right?
Yes, and it was legal then. I think you can also infer from Cower's reaction to Spygate that there's a high probability the Steelers had their own cameras pointing back.
 

BaseballJones

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Yes, and it was legal then. I think you can also infer from Cower's reaction to Spygate that there's a high probability the Steelers had their own cameras pointing back.
Yeah no doubt. It wasn't like it wasn't well-known throughout the league. I mean, we read reports that opposing coaches were caught on Pats' film staring at, smiling at, and waving at their cameras.

That article was from 2008, and it referenced events four years prior, or...2004. The same year we're now talking about here with Pittsburgh.
 

JimBoSox9

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Also for posterity's sake in between '01 and '04 there was the season-opener AFCCG rematch in 2002. PIT went in there talking big about proving the best team lost last year, and a big win would have given them some amount of credibility consider themselves the class of the AFC still. The Pats stomped on them to the tune of 30-14, and it cemented Pit's position as leading haterade drinkers.
 

BigSoxFan

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Also for posterity's sake in between '01 and '04 there was the season-opener AFCCG rematch in 2002. PIT went in there talking big about proving the best team lost last year, and a big win would have given them some amount of credibility consider themselves the class of the AFC still. The Pats stomped on them to the tune of 30-14, and it cemented Pit's position as leading haterade drinkers.
And, as we unfortunately found out, that 2002 team wasn't even that good.
 

BuellMiller

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I lived in Pittsburgh for about 10 years, starting in the summer of 2002, moving there from MA. People weren't too happy with my SB36 Champions gear, but I didn't take too much grief. (But I wasn't stupid, either. I went to a local bar to watch the opening game in 2002 since I hadn't gotten cable yet. Made sure to only cheer on the inside with each Kordell Stewart brainfart or when Brady kept rattling off pass after pass). I didn't develop the hatred for Steelers fans until a few years later though. Well, I can actually remember the exact date, Oct 16, 2004. I went to a sports bar in the Strip with some fellow Red Sox fans to watch Game 3. After wearing Pedro and Manny jerseys in the first two games with no luck, I decided to mix it up with a Brady jersey. A few innings into the game, a yinzer watching the game (and cheering on the Yankees, no less) noticed my jersey and proceeded to berate me with a string of the two different f-bombs, and asked how someone could dare wear a Tom Brady jersey to a pittsburgh bar. The Halloween game might have stung more if you know, October 20th and 27th hadn't just happened. The 2005 AFC Championship game was so much sweeter that way, though. F'ing steelers fans. (Yeah, I know there are going to be jagoffs like this guys anywhere you go, and it's probably not fair to generalize them all, but I don't care).
 

sheamonu

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The best part about being a Patriots fan is that you can just not give a shit about what other fan bases think. Dallas wants to be "America's Team"? Good for you. Pittsburgh wants to revel in their "legacy"? Knock yourself out. The Bills want to treat each game with us like a war? Wonderful - go piss in Niagra Falls. The Jets fans want to replay Joe Namath raising a finger as he exits Super Bowl III on an endless loop? I raise a finger to you my friends, albeit a somewhat different digit.

All of 'em can just feck off. All I know is that I sat on those goddamn freezing bleachers for years seriously contemplating things like whether Hugh Millen was the answer or if we were better off going 2-14 or 1-15. I don't care if anyone north of Caribou, south of Tiverton or west of Pittsfield like this team. They are ours. The Sox are the team with the extended nation - and I'm fine with that. The Celtics are the Celtics, the Bruins are "original 6" material - but the Pats are ours.

The biggest mistake the media has made about the era since "Spygate" is to mistake the Patriot's fan's response to these alleged "scandals" as defensiveness. In truth it is incredulity. I mean - you used to literally have to wade through oceans of urine to watch this team play. Do you honestly think I care if you're worried about how much air might be in the football?

Yes, the best thing about being a Pat's fan is that we are untouchable, that all this outrage on the part of other fan bases is in truth amusing and ultimately theoretical. We are not arrogant, we are immune. We earned that immunity through years of disease. Remember when our coach negotiated his exit on the eve of a crucial playoff game? Remember when our coach negotiated his exit on the eve of a crucial playoff game? Wait - did I say that twice? You bet your ass I did. Go through that and then tell me how I should be ashamed because the current coach using a strange (but legal) formation is "not in the spirit of the game".

I don't want to be America's team. I don't want to be the gritty Steelers or the nasty Raiders. I want more rings because some of my fingers are lonely.
 

NortheasternPJ

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The best part about being a Patriots fan is that you can just not give a shit about what other fan bases think. Dallas wants to be "America's Team"? Good for you. Pittsburgh wants to revel in their "legacy"? Knock yourself out. The Bills want to treat each game with us like a war? Wonderful - go piss in Niagra Falls. The Jets fans want to replay Joe Namath raising a finger as he exits Super Bowl III on an endless loop? I raise a finger to you my friends, albeit a somewhat different digit.

All of 'em can just feck off. All I know is that I sat on those goddamn freezing bleachers for years seriously contemplating things like whether Hugh Millen was the answer or if we were better off going 2-14 or 1-15. I don't care if anyone north of Caribou, south of Tiverton or west of Pittsfield like this team. They are ours. The Sox are the team with the extended nation - and I'm fine with that. The Celtics are the Celtics, the Bruins are "original 6" material - but the Pats are ours.

The biggest mistake the media has made about the era since "Spygate" is to mistake the Patriot's fan's response to these alleged "scandals" as defensiveness. In truth it is incredulity. I mean - you used to literally have to wade through oceans of urine to watch this team play. Do you honestly think I care if you're worried about how much air might be in the football?

Yes, the best thing about being a Pat's fan is that we are untouchable, that all this outrage on the part of other fan bases is in truth amusing and ultimately theoretical. We are not arrogant, we are immune. We earned that immunity through years of disease. Remember when our coach negotiated his exit on the eve of a crucial playoff game? Remember when our coach negotiated his exit on the eve of a crucial playoff game? Wait - did I say that twice? You bet your ass I did. Go through that and then tell me how I should be ashamed because the current coach using a strange (but legal) formation is "not in the spirit of the game".

I don't want to be America's team. I don't want to be the gritty Steelers or the nasty Raiders. I want more rings because some of my fingers are lonely.
Is it bad that i read this in my head as Ray Lewis in an unfinished garage?
 

54thMA

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I want to frame that and put it on my office wall
I just did.

Been a fan since 1968, had season tickets for close to 10 years in section 320, what a shithole that old stadium was. In the winter when everyone had heavy jackets on, if you got out of your seat to go take a piss, you'd have to shoehorn yourself back into your seat as it would literally disappear and they weren't even seats, they were numbers on a aluminum bench.

I remember a game vs the Buccaneers in December, the whole parking lot was a sheet of ice, there had to be 17,000 people in the stands, but myself and my season ticket holder friends were there like a pack of morons, we were fans, it is what it is. At one game we hung a "Marc Wilson fan club" sign up in the corner of the stadium that was completely empty, Shank wrote about it in his column the next day.

We all flew down to Miami in 1986 to see the AFCCG vs the Dolphins, we parked in some guys back yard, there was cat shit everywhere, into the guys yard pulls a big RV and out comes Frank and the rest of Mosi's Mooses, I still can't believe that.

I could give two shits about what any fan of any team thinks of the Patriots, these past 17 years have been phenomenal and like all good things, it's going to end someday and badly at that, so just enjoy the shit out of it now and ignore the noise.
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Leaving in a bit to the studio :)

Captaincoop

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I remember having that same internal debate about Hugh Millen. Sad times when you think having Hugh Millen as your starting QB might be a positive development.

I also thought Scott Lockwood might be the real deal at halfback.
 

Seels

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The best part about being a Patriots fan is that you can just not give a shit about what other fan bases think. Dallas wants to be "America's Team"? Good for you. Pittsburgh wants to revel in their "legacy"? Knock yourself out. The Bills want to treat each game with us like a war? Wonderful - go piss in Niagra Falls. The Jets fans want to replay Joe Namath raising a finger as he exits Super Bowl III on an endless loop? I raise a finger to you my friends, albeit a somewhat different digit.

All of 'em can just feck off. All I know is that I sat on those goddamn freezing bleachers for years seriously contemplating things like whether Hugh Millen was the answer or if we were better off going 2-14 or 1-15. I don't care if anyone north of Caribou, south of Tiverton or west of Pittsfield like this team. They are ours. The Sox are the team with the extended nation - and I'm fine with that. The Celtics are the Celtics, the Bruins are "original 6" material - but the Pats are ours.

The biggest mistake the media has made about the era since "Spygate" is to mistake the Patriot's fan's response to these alleged "scandals" as defensiveness. In truth it is incredulity. I mean - you used to literally have to wade through oceans of urine to watch this team play. Do you honestly think I care if you're worried about how much air might be in the football?

Yes, the best thing about being a Pat's fan is that we are untouchable, that all this outrage on the part of other fan bases is in truth amusing and ultimately theoretical. We are not arrogant, we are immune. We earned that immunity through years of disease. Remember when our coach negotiated his exit on the eve of a crucial playoff game? Remember when our coach negotiated his exit on the eve of a crucial playoff game? Wait - did I say that twice? You bet your ass I did. Go through that and then tell me how I should be ashamed because the current coach using a strange (but legal) formation is "not in the spirit of the game".

I don't want to be America's team. I don't want to be the gritty Steelers or the nasty Raiders. I want more rings because some of my fingers are lonely.
This is the best post in the history of these forums. Amen.
 
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