Aaron Hernandez: Had Advanced CTE - NEP Sued

dcmissle

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Last night, perhaps as he was preparing to kill himself, I was reading this terrific piece about AH by Ian O'Connor. The title is ironic:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19180241/the-trial-aaron-hernandez-just-getting-started-nfl-jose-baez-2017

Though written through a legal lens, it asks the obvious and troubling questions. What if his dad had not died when he did? What if AH had been drafted by a team far removed from Bristol?

One always should remember the murder victim, Odin Lloyd, and the alleged victims in the recent case. And this is not at all to excuse his behavior -- many others overcome even more troubled childhoods. But for one day, I find myself thinking about the sad what-ifs.

Assuming health (which is assuming a lot, granted), AH probably was going to the Hall of Fame. Even we probably did not fully appreciate the scope of his amazing talent.

The human tragedy overwhelms everything else, but from the narrow on field standpoint, AH may represent the biggest waste of talent since Len Bias (which is not, of course, to put the two in anywhere near the same category beyond that narrow perspective).
 

DJnVa

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Just heard on ESPN radio, the team is still planning on going ahead with plans to meet President Trump today. What a circus that will be. It was already going to be a strange experience but now it is a tragedy.
What's the tragedy?
 

bsj

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Last night, perhaps as he was preparing to kill himself, I was reading this terrific piece about AH by Ian O'Connor. The title is ironic:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19180241/the-trial-aaron-hernandez-just-getting-started-nfl-jose-baez-2017

Though written through a legal lens, it asks the obvious and troubling questions. What if his dad had not died when he did? What if AH had been drafted by a team far removed from Bristol?

One always should remember the murder victim, Odin Lloyd, and the alleged victims in the recent case. And this is not at all to excuse his behavior -- many others overcome even more troubled childhoods. But for one day, I find myself thinking about the sad what-ifs.

Assuming health (which is assuming a lot, granted), AH probably was going to the Hall of Fame. Even we probably did not fully appreciate the scope of his amazing talent.

The human tragedy overwhelms everything else, but from the narrow on field standpoint, AH may represent the biggest waste of talent since Len Bias (which is not, of course, to put the two in anywhere near the same category beyond that narrow perspective).
And Jose Baez actually tweeted a link to that story last night...

The whole thing, from start to finish, has been a tragedy. This is just the end.
 

amh03

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Any thoughts on whether CTE could have had something to do with this? He must have suffered from concussions before, right?
 

Unin10D

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I know this has been said before, but what a colossal waste, not just of AH's talents but of the lives of everyone around him
 

bsj

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Any thoughts on whether CTE could have had something to do with this? He must have suffered from concussions before, right?
If they find CTE in the brain of a guy who played in the NFL only 3 years, it could be a game changer.

That said, I think he was just a damaged individual.
 

Unin10D

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Any thoughts on whether CTE could have had something to do with this? He must have suffered from concussions before, right?
I'm sure as more research is published, CTE will be better understood, but I think Hernandez was a psychopathic murderer, nothing more. The amount of violence befallen on those around him is staggering.

OJ, sure, you have someone who had personality change towards more violence and aggression later in his life, but AH seems to have come pre-wired for this
 

fairlee76

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This is where I am at too. I was shocked when I heard the news this morning. From everything you read about the guy, getting life in prison was almost a badge of honor for him. He's a lifelong gangsta/thug who just happened to be really good at football.
Or maybe he got bored with prison life in the same way he apparently got bored with being an NFL superstar and decided to murder people. Who the hell knows. One thing I am learning in my middle age is that trying to apply rationality to sociopaths is an exercise in futility.

Also, the fact that Gerry Callahan is still on the air tells you a lot about how effed up we are. Such a POS but, apparently, he gets ratings.
 

fairlee76

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If they find CTE in the brain of a guy who played in the NFL only 3 years, it could be a game changer.

That said, I think he was just a damaged individual.
Chris Henry says hello. Finding CTE in a guy who "only" played 3 years would not be breaking new ground.
 

amh03

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Timing is certainly interesting...didn't Hernandez despise Kraft? Think the choice of timing was meant to pull coverage from the Patriots' visit to the White House today?
 

H78

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I don't know why but seeing this thread this morning legitimately shocked me.
 

richgedman'sghost

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I probably should not have used the word "tragedy" in describing the Aaron Hernandez suicide. I was referring more to the situation in general in which Hernandez was convicted of one killing and accused of two more. It was tragic for all the families of Hernandez's victims and also his daughter who now won't have her father. What a waste of talent..
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Last night, perhaps as he was preparing to kill himself, I was reading this terrific piece about AH by Ian O'Connor. The title is ironic:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19180241/the-trial-aaron-hernandez-just-getting-started-nfl-jose-baez-2017

Though written through a legal lens, it asks the obvious and troubling questions. What if his dad had not died when he did? What if AH had been drafted by a team far removed from Bristol?

One always should remember the murder victim, Odin Lloyd, and the alleged victims in the recent case. And this is not at all to excuse his behavior -- many others overcome even more troubled childhoods. But for one day, I find myself thinking about the sad what-ifs.

Assuming health (which is assuming a lot, granted), AH probably was going to the Hall of Fame. Even we probably did not fully appreciate the scope of his amazing talent.

The human tragedy overwhelms everything else, but from the narrow on field standpoint, AH may represent the biggest waste of talent since Len Bias (which is not, of course, to put the two in anywhere near the same category beyond that narrow perspective).
Dude never made a Pro Bowl in three seasons and he was probably going to the hall of fame?
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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The 2012 murders happened before he signed his contract extension, that's why they would've had the chance to get back the guaranteed money that accelerated onto their cap when they released him. The 2013 murder happened after the contract was signed.
My understanding is that the contract had a clause that was something along the lines of it being void if he had any knowledge of legal issues that would cause him to be unable to play for periods of the contract - I don't know why the gun charge from the 2012 case (that carries a 4-5 year sentence?) wouldn't satisfy that clause. I don't think there was anything specific to murder.
 

H78

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Maybe it was important for him to be cleared in the double homicide but he knew he wasn't going to get cleared for Lloyd?

Just crazy, crazy stuff.
 

Hoya81

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Any thoughts on whether CTE could have had something to do with this? He must have suffered from concussions before, right?
IANAD, but I suppose it's possible. He had at least one official concussion during the 2011 playoffs.
 

moondog80

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"Probably" is too strong.

He had the talent to make it. Would have been interesting to see where it took him. But he chose another path.
He had one year with 910 yards and two with less than 600. Was only 23 in his last season so there was lots of time for improvement but he was going to have to pick up the pace considerably. I would have said no at the time.
 

dcmissle

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Dude never made a Pro Bowl in three seasons and he was probably going to the hall of fame?
The Pro Bowl is the be and end all? Consider his competition.

Beyond that, over 38 games in three seasons, I believe he had 178 receptions for almost 2000 yards and 18 TDs.

The key here, as noted above, is that he was 23 years old when he played his last football. He did not play 4 seasons before his death, and if he were playing today, he would be entering his prime at age 28 this November.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Dean of Mass School of law, Michael Coyne, is on 98.5 now saying that the Hernandez Estate may be able to go after the Pats bonuses and his NFL Pension since he's technically not guilty and didn't violate the contract.

He's not sure if it'll work but the argument can be made.
 

kelpapa

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If they find CTE in the brain of a guy who played in the NFL only 3 years, it could be a game changer.

That said, I think he was just a damaged individual.
He only played three years in the pros, but he played high school and left college after his junior year. He could have been concussed numerous times throughout his life. That said, it sounds like he was always a gangbanger.
 

H78

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Dean of Mass School of law, Michael Coyne, is on 98.5 now saying that the Hernandez Estate may be able to go after the Pats bonuses and his NFL Pension since he's technically not guilty and didn't violate the contract.

He's not sure if it'll work but the argument can be made.
But...he was found guilty of killing Lloyd.
 

Stitch01

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The Pro Bowl is the be and end all? Consider his competition.

Beyond that, over 38 games in three seasons, I believe he had 178 receptions for almost 2000 yards and 18 TDs.

The key here, as noted above, is that he was 23 years old when he played his last football. He did not play 4 seasons before his death, and if he were playing today, he would be entering his prime at age 28 this November.
Probable HOF seems a bit strong. The advanced metrics you talked about in the RB thread always looked at Hernandez as a bit overrated, he was never a real two way TE, and he was going to be in the shadow of Gronk.

He was certainly a unique player though. The whole thing is senseless and tragic.

Dean of Mass School of law, Michael Coyne, is on 98.5 now saying that the Hernandez Estate may be able to go after the Pats bonuses and his NFL Pension since he's technically not guilty and didn't violate the contract.

He's not sure if it'll work but the argument can be made
.

Maybe sheds some light on the timing if Hernandez thought this was true
 

Stitch01

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nm already covered

Kinda have to respect the dedication if he makes the Pats pay him the rest of his bonuses by killing himself.
 

H78

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It was in the appeals process so, I think, technically, he is some sort of limbo. Not technically still guilty?
I think you're still guilty through the appeals process if you were found guilty in your original case. Though I'm no legal expert, so I could be totally wrong.
 

H78

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By law, that conviction (as well as the firearm conviction in the double homicide) will be abated and the indictments all dismissed.
Wow.

Alas, the brilliance that is the American legal system.
 

Doug Beerabelli

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If the convictions on the Lloyd case are vacated, does this remove any res judicata type implications from the criminal case on any future civil cases? Or just the convictions themselves? If there's no res judicata value to the conviction, then one would think this would make any civil suits against his estate harder to prove, and perhaps would save some $ for his estate/daughter etc.

His dealh also cuts back on any claim by estate for seeking reimbursement for his costs of keeping him in jail, assuming the state can lay such a claim in MA.

Haven't dealt with res judicata since the bar exam 20+ years ago, so I'll plead temporal ignorance if I'm off on this. LOL. And italics are fun, so there.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Dean of Mass School of law, Michael Coyne, is on 98.5 now saying that the Hernandez Estate may be able to go after the Pats bonuses and his NFL Pension since he's technically not guilty and didn't violate the contract.

He's not sure if it'll work but the argument can be made.
I do not know about the pension, that gets into some other issues I'm not at all knowledgeable about.

I think it is the above is not at all likely for the bonuses. Others here with more knowledge than Michael Coyne might share a different perspective, but I think the underlying facts here continue to be difficult ones for Hernandez to argue did not affect his ongoing availability at the time of signing, and the remaining bonus money at issue is premised on that. The 'not guilty' verdict moves the question from 'no-brainer' to 'at least some gray' but I suspect his estate wouldn't succeed and is unlikely to try.
 

dcmissle

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Probable HOF seems a bit strong. The advanced metrics you talked about in the RB thread always looked at Hernandez as a bit overrated, he was never a real two way TE, and he was going to be in the shadow of Gronk.

He was certainly a unique player though. The whole thing is senseless and tragic.

Dean of Mass School of law, Michael Coyne, is on 98.5 now saying that the Hernandez Estate may be able to go after the Pats bonuses and his NFL Pension since he's technically not guilty and didn't violate the contract.

He's not sure if it'll work but the argument can be made
.

Maybe sheds some light on the timing if Hernandez thought this was true
This hit me like a ton of bricks last night from the O'Connor piece. I know it's narrow and self serving in a fanboy sort of way, but it also points to the sadness of this waste:

"At 20, Hernandez was the NFL's youngest player in 2010. Didn't matter. He was precisely the versatile weapon Belichick thought he would be over his first two seasons, when he accounted for 124 receptions and 13 touchdowns. The tight end was good for 61 yards rushing -- yes, rushing -- in a January 2012 playoff rout of the Broncos, and he caught a touchdown pass in the Super Bowl XLVI loss to the New York Giants. Hernandez had combined with Gronkowski to form a devastating one-two that created matchups out of a defensive coordinator's worst nightmare. "Hernandez revolutionized their offense," said one rival personnel man. "They had the no-huddle concept that destroyed everybody. You could never line up in the right defense."

It seemed Hernandez's role was expanding by the week. "Every time we had him do something," [Floyd] Reese told ESPN.com, "it was shocking how well he did it. Near the end of his career we were playing him as a running back, and we would turn around and give him the ball and it was shocking how well he ran it. He could do anything you wanted him to do. ... Each time we used him, we expected to see him fail at something. ... And I'm not sure we ever found that."


(emphasis added)
 

Average Reds

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Dean of Mass School of law, Michael Coyne, is on 98.5 now saying that the Hernandez Estate may be able to go after the Pats bonuses and his NFL Pension since he's technically not guilty and didn't violate the contract.

He's not sure if it'll work but the argument can be made.
I'm not a lawyer, but this strikes me as an academic legal theorist getting his name in the papers. Will never happen.
 

Average Reds

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By law, that conviction (as well as the firearm conviction in the double homicide) will be abated and the indictments all dismissed.
Got a link for that?

Hernandez is not under indictment. He was convicted. I have never heard of convictions being vacated upon the death of the prisoner. Only indictments being dismissed.
 

Koufax

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This is a ridiculous concept. Convictions aren't vacated up death.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Got a link for that?

Hernandez is not under indictment. He was convicted. I have never heard of convictions being vacated upon the death of the prisoner. Only indictments being dismissed.
Others may refine my wording on this, but conceptually I think it is well-settled law that if someone dies while they are still on direct appeal the convications are vacated. The legal theory is that you have a constitutional right to participate in your own defense (which includes the appeal), and if you die you are unable to do so. Given the choice between a 'conviction' where someone is not able to fully support their own defense and vacating the conviction, our system has chosen the latter.

I believe (but have not checked) that Hernandez was still on direct appeal for the Odin Lloyd murder

Someone will have a cleaner description, I am sure...
 

Average Reds

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Others may refine my wording on this, but conceptually I think it is well-settled law that if someone dies while they are still on direct appeal the convications are vacated. The legal theory is that you have a constitutional right to participate in your own defense (which includes the appeal), and if you die you are unable to do so. Given the choice between a 'conviction' where someone is not able to fully support their own defense and vacating the conviction, our system has chosen the latter.

Someone will have a cleaner description, I am sure...
I have heard of indictments being dismissed. I have never heard of convictions being vacated because the convicted criminal killed themselves before the appeals process played out.

If true, it would be a logically absurd result and I am not inclined to believe it without definitive citation.

Edit: If true, then a con artist could run a ponzi scheme, steal tens/hundreds millions and then, if found guilty, kill himself when the case is under direct appeal in order to shelter all of his ill-gotten gains for the family. Just not buying that.
 

Rusty13

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Got a link for that?

Hernandez is not under indictment. He was convicted. I have never heard of convictions being vacated upon the death of the prisoner. Only indictments being dismissed.
"When a defendant dies while his conviction is on direct review, it is our practice to vacate the judgment and remand the case with a direction to dismiss the complaint or indictment, thus abating the entire prosecution."

Commonwealth v. De La Zerda, 416 Mass. 247, 248 (1993).

http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/416/416mass247.html
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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In wake of suicide, Hernandez convictions will be vacated.

In the eyes of the state of Massachusetts, former Patriots star Aaron Hernandez died an innocent man thanks to an archaic legal principle called “abatement ab initio,” said Martin W. Healy, chief legal counsel to the Massachusetts Bar Association.

Though Hernandez was convicted in 2014 of murdering Odin Lloyd, Hernandez’s appeal was not complete. Abatement ab initio means “from the beginning,” Healy said, and it means that upon a person’s death, if they have not exhausted their legal appeals, their case reverts to its status at the beginning — it is as if the trial and conviction never happened.