The Nation's Tears: Volume II

Status
Not open for further replies.

Marbleheader

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2004
11,726
Russell called Jordan the greatest. Orr and Howe said the same about Gretzky. Koufax was a huge Pedro supporter throughout his career. Not unusual at all for GOATs to annoint their successor. What I find disingenuous about Montana is the notion that he suddenly doesn't think he's the greatest.

I watched Grogan too, and I imagine more than half of the people on this board did.
 
Last edited:

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,333
"I have watched more Pee Wee league football, Pop Warner football, JV and Varsity high school football, JV and Varsity college level and professional football for over 60 years, more than probably anyone in this room; and yes, I thought the Falcons/Patriots game was the most exciting football game in history, but in my honest opinion it is totally crazy that the winning advantage in a Super Bowl tie is determined by means of a coin toss! Sad."

Oof, someone tell Meryl (and anyone whining about OT rules) that game was over the second Amendola broke the plane. The rule could be "Patriots points don't count" and I'd still have bet my house on them winning.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
27,958
Saskatoon Canada
Russell called Jordan the greatest. Orr and Howe said the same about Gretzky. Koufax was a huge Pedro supporter throughout his career. Not unusual at all for GOATs to annoint their successor. What I find disingenuous about Montana is the notion that he suddenly doesn't think he's the greatest.

I watched Grogan too, and I imagine more than half of the people on this board did.
Canadian hockey guys have a different culture, and Russell is far introspective than most athletes. Russell has defended his 11 titles strongly when said it was easier with 8 teams. He has frequently told a story about telling Jordan he could not pass to Paxton to take the big shot because Paxton would not even be in an 8 team league.

Football is strange that it attaches so much to the SB evaluating QBs. Would the Pats be worse off with Marino in place of Brady? Bradshaw ends up in these conversations because of his defence.

Anyway Montana looks small since he and his supporters have used the 4 rings as an argument. Honestly Steve Young looked at least as good throwing to Rice, running that O.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,402
So a team has no responsibility for a game ending in a tie or allowing a TD in overtime? These are just random events.
 

Oppo

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2009
1,576
The uproar about a coin toss determining the victor totally discounts that defense and special teams matter.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
The uproar about a coin toss determining the victor totally discounts that defense and special teams matter.
I find myself here as well. It adds just a bit more value to the other phases of the game should an offensive juggernaut find themselves tied. You lose the coin flip and you wish your defense was better. In theory if the percentages aren't 50/50 then maybe the more balanced team has a small advantage, which to me is a positive. So I'm ok with this - though easy to say when looking at it from the Patriots side of the SB 51 fence.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
Missing in arguments like Streep's is that a coin toss doesn't decide who wins. A defense failing to stop an offense from scoring a touchdown, not even a field goal but a fucking touchdown, is why Atlanta lost. They make one stop and people are probably complaining that overtime can be decided by a field goal, and that a team should only be able to win by scoring a TD.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,094
Missing in arguments like Streep's is that a coin toss doesn't decide who wins. A defense failing to stop an offense from scoring a touchdown, not even a field goal but a fucking touchdown, is why Atlanta lost. They make one stop and people are probably complaining that overtime can be decided by a field goal, and that a team should only be able to win by scoring a TD.
Not only did they not make a stop, they didn't even force a single 3rd down.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,094
I don't really care one way or another what Montana says. We all know Brady is the GOAT. But it must be kind of weird for Brady to be spurned by his childhood sports idol. If I were Montana, I would be jokingly trying to take credit for Brady's success by saying that I inspired him.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
I don't really care one way or another what Montana says. We all know Brady is the GOAT. But it must be kind of weird for Brady to be spurned by his childhood sports idol. If I were Montana, I would be jokingly trying to take credit for Brady's success by saying that I inspired him.
I like to think this is how I'd handle it as well. But it takes a seriously competitive person to be the GOAT... to have held the title or even be talked about as one of the GOATs. Players have a hard time retiring without the ball being ripped out of their hands... never mind having to let go of legendary status or having ones records be systematically eclipsed. I can give Montana et al a little bit of leeway on this one.

In this vein though the person who I think is disgraceful is Shula acting like a horse's ass with regard to BB and his accomplishments. It is simply classless.
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
19,272
I still love that Manning is a complete afterthought these days and not even in the conversation after all the Manning ball washing and Peyton vs Brady hot takez on ESPN for the last decade+
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
I don't really care one way or another what Montana says. We all know Brady is the GOAT. But it must be kind of weird for Brady to be spurned by his childhood sports idol. If I were Montana, I would be jokingly trying to take credit for Brady's success by saying that I inspired him.
Bob Hope treated Woody Allen the same way
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
I still love that Manning is a complete afterthought these days and not even in the conversation after all the Manning ball washing and Peyton vs Brady hot takez on ESPN for the last decade+
Manning's defenders say he's in his own category because he brought two different teams to championships. Which is dumb, but there you go.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
Montana is allowed to change his mid. He once thought that Skechers Shape-Up sneakers could get you in shape without ever exercising.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
I live in the NY area and most of my friends and colleagues have been really gracious. Like others, I've heard stuff like best ever, amazing come back, deflategate was bullshit, etc. A lot of people have said that they still hate the Pats but have to respect them. Some have said that they were truly happy for me given how into the Pats I am.

But then, along the lines of this thread, I heard about one friend who while watching the comeback just totally lost his shit. This long suffering Jets fan was sputtering and spewing about the Patriots' success being down to parity at first, cheating and being on the receiving end of phenomenally stupid coaching. As much as I really appreciate the kind and grown up sentiments of many, this angry reaction is priceless.
 

Rough Carrigan

reasons within Reason
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I live in the NY area and most of my friends and colleagues have been really gracious. Like others, I've heard stuff like best ever, amazing come back, deflategate was bullshit, etc. A lot of people have said that they still hate the Pats but have to respect them. Some have said that they were truly happy for me given how into the Pats I am.

But then, along the lines of this thread, I heard about one friend who while watching the comeback just totally lost his shit. This long suffering Jets fan was sputtering and spewing about the Patriots' success being down to parity at first, cheating and being on the receiving end of phenomenally stupid coaching. As much as I really appreciate the kind and grown up sentiments of many, this angry reaction is priceless.
One of the things you realize when you watch other teams play, not just opponents of the Pats but games between two other teams is that NFL coaches do stupid shit ALL the time. Most of Belichick's "genius" is just avoiding doing stupid shit. When everyone else in the class is getting a 65 on an exam, the curve makes your 80 into an A.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
Manning's defenders say he's in his own category because he brought two different teams to championships. Which is dumb, but there you go.
Was one of those teams one that made the playoffs with Tebow, then added some more skill players and pro bowl defenders?
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,672
And it's not as if anybody from 2001/3/4 was on the 2014/16 Brady teams. I mean, this isn't a Scottie Pippen situation.

Also Manning was on another team because he was released at age 35 because another giant headed goober was available. Brady never got that chance because he was never ever cut.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
So a team has no responsibility for a game ending in a tie or allowing a TD in overtime? These are just random events.
This, for me, is the essence of the argument for why the Tuck Rule didn't gift the Pats the Snow Bowl game in 2001. The Pats still were at the 42 in the snow and had to move the ball into field goal range to tie and then do it again in overtime. And oh, BTW in overtime, they went 61 yards in 15 plays as Brady was 8 for 8 including completing a 4th and 4 from the Raiders' 28. That drive was every bit as impressive as what we just witnessed last weekend,if not more so give the personnel and lack of experience.

But the point is, as it's always been, that the Patriots didn't just have the game handed to them. Where the Raiders collapsed after the Tuck Rule, the Pats bore down and made play after play.
 

JimBoSox9

will you be my friend?
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2005
16,667
Mid-surburbia
One of the things you realize when you watch other teams play, not just opponents of the Pats but games between two other teams is that NFL coaches do stupid shit ALL the time. Most of Belichick's "genius" is just avoiding doing stupid shit. When everyone else in the class is getting a 65 on an exam, the curve makes your 80 into an A.
One of my smarter midwestern friends texted me during the 4th quarter to credit Belichick's mind games for consistently goading teams into unusually bad decision-making. I do think there may be something to Theo's friend's notion of the Pats benefiting from luck there, but luck of their own creation. On two separate drives Atlanta passed when running would have likely iced the game. Julio Jones was targeted FOUR TIMES. These are not mistakes Quinn and Shanahan were making during the season. It's reasonable to draw a direct line from things like that to the Pats defensive complexity and focus on taking away an offense's favorite crutches.
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
7,095
I love the last line, "What did Woody Johnson & Co. ever do to deserve this kind of torture?"

Setting up for a sequel, or a series of them?
 

GeorgeCostanza

tiger king
SoSH Member
May 16, 2009
7,286
Found in central mass
Sanu - if only halftime were shorter...

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/02/27/mo-sanu-blames-halftime-falcons-super-bowl-loss/98493206/

Former Cincinnati Bengals and current Atlanta Falcons receiver Mohamed Sanu told NFL Network that he believes the halftime show featuring Lady Gaga doomed his team before the New England Patriots rallied for an improbable comeback in Super Bowl LI.

Here's what Sanu had to say about the Falcons' collapse:

"Usually halftime's only like 15 minutes. And when you're not on the field for like an hour, it's just like going to work out - like a great workout - and then you're gonna sit on the couch for an hour. And then try to start working out again."
I could drink gallons of these salty bombs
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,069
Hingham, MA
Guess he forgot they scored on their second drive of the half and then had 2nd and 1 from the Pats 33 the next drive
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
He's not wrong. That's why the Pats specifically prepped for a long halftime and a longer than usual game.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
He's not wrong. That's why the Pats specifically prepped for a long halftime and a longer than usual game.
Gee, you'd think Atlanta would have prepped as well ... what with Quinn "taking part in three of the past four Super Bowls"
 

SumnerH

Malt Liquor Picker
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,900
Alexandria, VA
He's not wrong. That's why the Pats specifically prepped for a long halftime and a longer than usual game.
Yep. Belichick prepping the team for the extended Super Bowl schedule is one of those things that seems like it should be obvious to everyone by now (the fact that he does it has been written about for years) but apparently still gives the Pats an edge over many other teams.
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
7,095
Or by reading the sports page. Weren't there pre-SB stories with quotes from the Pats' about the long halftime, and how to deal with it?
I'm not sure about stories, but BB addressed it on 1/31 in a presser:

(On monitoring player's energy throughout this ultimate game)
"That's a very challenging situation because there is so much leading up to the game. It's such a long game between pregame, the start of the game, halftime, TV timeouts and so forth. It just extends longer than what it normally does including the pregame part of it. We just try and pace ourselves through that. Some of that is nutrition, hydration and things like that. Part of it is an understanding of what it's going to be like so you don't get surprised and get into the middle of the game or the middle of the third quarter. That's kind of when the game would be ending but there's still another 20 minutes to play or so. I think understanding that and making sure that the pace of the game for each individual, which is different, for an offensive line or defensive line, the pace is a little different than receivers or defensive backs that are running 30, 40, 50 yards to cover. It's the difference between boxing and distance running. Then, you have a lot of guys in between. It's definitely challenging but it's the same for both teams. It's the same environment. Everyone needs to try and maximize all those things I just talked about. Their rest, attentiveness and pace so they don't burn out too soon. It's a challenge. This game is unlike any other that way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.