iPhone 6 - BFD

bohous

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I agree with the others that you should stick with it and see if you get used to the size. I don't really have a problem one handing it anymore. One thing that helped was getting a case that has a little tackiness to the grip. I don't feel like I have to cradle it from the bottom as much which extends my reach.
 
While we are on the subject, I hope this finally gets Apple to allow more flexibility with app icon placement. 
 

B H Kim

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Give it a week. You'll get used to it. My wife got a 6 this week and it seems tiny to me after 9 months with a 6 plus.
 

NortheasternPJ

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That's what I thought the feedback would be. I'm finding using swipe left and right in apps elongated the need to use the top buttons most of the time. I never swiped on my 5S. Reaching the top left is still a pain but less need to do it makes it ok. The increased screen size is nice.
 

Hagios

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Dec 15, 2007
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NortheasternPJ said:
I got an iPhone 6 yesterday after having the 3G, 4s, 5s. I'm really debating on returning it due to the screen size. I'd love it if it was 4.3. I know this is old news for most but I miss my 5S.

I have very long fingers and it's still hard to use 1 handed.
 
I just wish that Apple would put the navigation bar at the bottom instead of the top. Instead of reaching across the diagonal, you'd just have to reach across the width of the phone. That would make one-handed use much easier.
 

bohous

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Hagios said:
 
I just wish that Apple would put the navigation bar at the bottom instead of the top. Instead of reaching across the diagonal, you'd just have to reach across the width of the phone. That would make one-handed use much easier.
 
 
Which navigation bar in particular? Safari has navigation on the bottom. The mail app does have top/left back button but you can also swipe right to go back. Honestly the biggest problem with reach is the SoSH app with the back button on the top left. 
Again, I don't get why iOS auto-fills icons from the top down and without the freedom to leave blank spaces or rows. The home button double-tap is a clunky work around to reach the top. 
 

mt8thsw9th

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I believe they meant address bar, not solely navigation. I have never understood that, either. In addition, I have no idea why the X is right next to the end of the address, but that's another story altogether.
 

derekson

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The newest beta of iOS 9 adds a setting for "Wi-Fi Assist", which uses cell data when the wifi connection is poor. Assuming it works well, that should be a great addition.
 

TFP

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How reliable are the betas? I'm tempted to upgrade to one but don't have a backup device, it'd be on my primary phone/iPad. Still too unreliable for that?
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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The Four Peters said:
How reliable are the betas? I'm tempted to upgrade to one but don't have a backup device, it'd be on my primary phone/iPad. Still too unreliable for that?
 
Probably no catastrophic risks for usability, but I think one of the common problems with betas is battery life.
 

soxhop411

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The Four Peters said:
How reliable are the betas? I'm tempted to upgrade to one but don't have a backup device, it'd be on my primary phone/iPad. Still too unreliable for that?
Also. If you are dependent on some apps they may not (yet) be compatible with the new iOS


Edit: which is why those on betas can't leave reviews for apps
 

derekson

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soxhop411 said:
Also. If you are dependent on some apps they may not (yet) be compatible with the new iOS

.

Edit: which is why those on betas can't leave reviews for apps
In my experience the biggest issue with running the iOS betas is app incompatibility. Otherwise stability is usually pretty good by the time it gets to public beta.

For example, the CVS app doesn't work at all for me right now. It just immediately crashes.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
That might be one of he most useful updates they've had. Seriously one of the most annoying things on a daily basis.
 
Agree - I've ranted in one of the iPhone threads that this is the worst part of the iOS experience
 

derekson

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It's weird because this feature appeared briefly in an earlier version of iOS (I think it was during the iOS 6 beta? It was called "Wifi + Cellular" at the time IIRC) but was silently scrapped until now, when it was silently resurrected.
 
It seems like if any data is taking too long to load, the phone will just briefly disconnect from the wifi and even the upper left will show LTE or 3G or 4G (as applicable) while cellular data is being used, but the wifi settings will still show the wifi network as being selected. So far in my limited experience with it it has worked well and quite flawlessly. 
 

rembrat

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If drop a new iPhone face down does it still shatter into a million pieces?
 

canderson

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I'm going to get the 6S in September and my (and my wife's) AT&T contract has been expired for a while. We are on old family plan thing where I have unlimited data with 200 texts a month, my wife has like 512mb of data and unlimited texting, and we pay around $90/month for it. 
 
Has anyone figured out any method or website or math wizard who can help me figure out if it makes sense for us to go to Next or some other plan? 
 
When I've done the math Next would be more expensive because we have a 22 percent discount on data due to my company. But it's all so damn confusing and I suck at math.
 

wutang112878

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The Next model is super confusing.
 
Take a iPhone 6 with 16GB:
  • If you pay full price with no contract the phone is $650
  • If you do a 2 year Contract the up-front charge is $200
  • If you go with Next 24, 18 or 12 the monthly device charge is 21.67, 27.09 and 32.5 respectively, but its not over 24, 18 or 12 payments its actually 30, 24 and 20 payments but you can upgrade after 24, 18 or 12 payments (and then you start a new device repay cycle).  The rub is that 30 * 21.67 = 650, as is 27.09 * 24 and 32.5 * 20   So with Next you basically get 0% financing for 20 to 30 months.  
 
Then you have to look at the monthly fee for data, talk & text:
  • With the Next a 1GB plan is $50 a month regularly or $39 a month for you (after the 22% off)
  • With the 2 year contract a 1GB plan is $65 a month regularly or ~$51 a month for you
  • With Next (any duration) a 1GB plan is $50 a month regularly or $39 a month
 
Which means with the 2 year contract when you pay $200 of the $650 up front, the $450 you dont pay up-front you will actually pay $288 for via the higher monthly fee ( 288 = $12 * 24 months and the $12 = $51 monthly fee - $39 monthly fee) so you actually save $162 (450 - 288)
 
So the question for you becomes, do you care about saving $162 over 2 years, if not then its just a matter of deciding if you want to pay $650 with no contract or if you are willing to commit for 30, 24 or 20 months then what trade off do you want between having a higher bill but being able to walk away sooner.
 
On your discount make sure you read the fine print because I have a discount too but the discount is only applied to the 'main' line not all the lines that are on your account which was the case for me.  You might also get a discount on the purchase of the phone (which I get on select phones) and then might complicate this even further.
 
Also, you are lucky that I am really procrastinating today and have no desire to do real work.
 

canderson

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Interesting, thanks. And yeah that's highly confusing. 
 
The discount is for the plan's data - regardless of the number of lines on the account. We will stay with AT&T as it has the best service for us by far. The kicker is I don't always upgrade my phone after two years and my wife never does. She doesn't care much and usually upgrades when hers dies so every 4-5 years. I tend to upgrade every 3 years or so.
 
I use around 5-6 GB data each month so would get the 10 GB plan to share with her. The benefit is she increases her data amount and I get more texts (I often go over 200 a month by 25 or 50).
 
I can't access my current billing specifics but can if that makes any difference. 
 

derekson

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The advantage with Next too is that you're not paying for the phone subsidy past upgrade time if you aren't one to upgrade as soon as you're eligible. Many people on two year contracts don't realize that they're paying ~$20 per month for 2 years to pay back the carrier for the $450 subsidy, and so if you don't upgrade as soon as you are eligible, then you're still paying the carrier for a subsidy past when you've actually paid it off. Next (or other similar plans with other carriers) set your cost at a fixed amount regardless of how long you keep the phone before upgrading.
 

canderson

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derekson said:
The advantage with Next too is that you're not paying for the phone subsidy past upgrade time if you aren't one to upgrade as soon as you're eligible. Many people on two year contracts don't realize that they're paying ~$20 per month for 2 years to pay back the carrier for the $450 subsidy, and so if you don't upgrade as soon as you are eligible, then you're still paying the carrier for a subsidy past when you've actually paid it off. Next (or other similar plans with other carriers) set your cost at a fixed amount regardless of how long you keep the phone before upgrading.
I crunched numbers and see in no way, shape or form how Next is economically worthwhile. This all excludes the contract phone deposit.

My current plan breakdown is roughly $130/month, all-in. So that's $2,880 for 24 months.

If we upgraded to Next and the Mobile Share Value 10 GB plan we are looking at $162.10 before taxes, or $3,888 for 24 months.

Is this Next breakdown accurate?

Mobile Share Value 10 GB $100.00
Device 1 $15.00
Device 2 $15.00
Monthly installment cost 1 $27.05
Monthly installment cost 1 $27.05
National Account Discount -$22.00
TOTAL $162.10
TOTAL OVER 24 MONTHS $3,888.00

If so, it's $1,000 grand more over 24 months.
 

wutang112878

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But the $130 is with your existing phones right?  If you take out the monthly installment fee it looks like your bill is actually going down.
 
Your monthly Next payments are $27 x 2 for 24 months or ~$1,300 or you could pay for those 2 up front and pay $1,300 or you could do the 2 year contract and pay $200 a piece now and then add on the additional service charge
 
One way or another you are going to pay the $650 a pop for the iPhones, that number might slightly vary by carrier and the scheme that they use to hide that payment from you might be different.  But one way or another if you want that phone you are paying them back the $650 and you are basically just choosing what scheme works best for you.
 

canderson

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Right, the $130 includes the $20 phone fee each month minus the upfront $299 (or $399) charge for the iPhone.

True, if we take our existing phones over we do lose that $27 charge. It's frustratingly confusing.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I get why they're doing it, but their methods seem rather draconian, especially with no user interaction.

If it's what they claim, a security issue for TouchID, just disable TouchID and ApplePay and let the phone operate normally, AFTER warning the user BEFORE they upgrade.

I've been holding off for 3 months replacing my iPhone 6's screen since it cracked. i nearly did it 2 weeks ago at the place at the mall who has done repair work for me before. Glad I didn't now.

I'd imagine this will just force third party repair places to add an extra step to migrate the TouchID button to the new screen, rather than just ripping and replacing the whole unit, which will add cost.
 

djbayko

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I get why they're doing it, but their methods seem rather draconian, especially with no user interaction.

If it's what they claim, a security issue for TouchID, just disable TouchID and ApplePay and let the phone operate normally, AFTER warning the user BEFORE they upgrade.

I've been holding off for 3 months replacing my iPhone 6's screen since it cracked. i nearly did it 2 weeks ago at the place at the mall who has done repair work for me before. Glad I didn't now.

I'd imagine this will just force third party repair places to add an extra step to migrate the TouchID button to the new screen, rather than just ripping and replacing the whole unit, which will add cost.
Shit. I just had my iPhone 6+ cracked screen replaced by a 3rd party. I've been avoiding iOS update for a while (separate topic). Does this mean I'm definitely screwed if I choose to update? Or is it possible for 3rd parties to replace cracked screens without switching out the home button? I have no idea how that replacement works.
 

nvalvo

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Do you mind if I ask why you had a third party do this? I just cracked a screen, collected a few quotes, and Apple came in low.
 

AlNipper49

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Do you mind if I ask why you had a third party do this? I just cracked a screen, collected a few quotes, and Apple came in low.
I did. Apple Store is a piece of shit.

I get to know my tech and the tech in my local Apple ripoff stores owns and runs the place. It beats the people who have a peripheral knowledge of technology who get hired into the Apple Store. They're worse than Geek Squad or those sad saps who work at Staples.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Do you mind if I ask why you had a third party do this? I just cracked a screen, collected a few quotes, and Apple came in low.
I had a 3rd party do my iPad Air 2 since it was $179 cheaper than apple, used OEM parts (allegedly but it seems great quality) and included a glass cover over the screen.

I could have got a refurb of the same
From Apple for $30 more than they wanted for just the screen.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Shit. I just had my iPhone 6+ cracked screen replaced by a 3rd party. I've been avoiding iOS update for a while (separate topic). Does this mean I'm definitely screwed if I choose to update? Or is it possible for 3rd parties to replace cracked screens without switching out the home button? I have no idea how that replacement works.
I would never risk doing it without at leafy calling who did it and ask them what happens if it bricks.
 

Blacken

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I get why they're doing it, but their methods seem rather draconian, especially with no user interaction.
Their methods are utterly and inescapably necessary, and I'm kind of gonna be an asshole about this: users are not qualified to make security-related decisions for themselves. That sucks, but it's true. They don't understand the principles behind or the interaction between the security components in your phone and expecting them to be able to make a knowledgeable, educated decision would be irresponsible of Apple because the slice of the userbase that is both willing and able to understand this shit is a rounding error. I work in this stuff, I deal with not just IT-style "security" but software and firmware infosec on a daily basis, and I only roughly understand the high-level interactions between these parts--and I understand it only well enough to go "NOPE NOPE NOPE APPLE GO DO THE MAXIMALLY SECURE THING THANK YOU AND GOODBYE." I think iOS is a garbage pile to actually use and I owned an iPhone 6 for literally six hours before returning it, but I'm probably going back to iOS literally just because of the willingness of Apple to make hard decisions around security even when their users might get mad.

If it's what they claim, a security issue for TouchID, just disable TouchID and ApplePay and let the phone operate normally, AFTER warning the user BEFORE they upgrade.
I'm not sure that you understand the ramifications of that repair and why that's not sufficient (and this is why I was an asshole above). The phone must be considered compromised, not just TouchID. Say you've been using a dirty TouchID sensor. I can envisage, and I'm not trying very hard, attacks that directly compromise the Secure Enclave (the isolated L4-based co-processor that handles crypto functions on the phone) in such a way that they can't be unwound. And now your phone is fucked in all sorts of entertaining ways completely aside from "disabling TouchID". And there is no way to somehow call your third-party repair OK and the other guy's not-OK. They must err on the side of caution, because nothing outside the Secure Enclave can audit the Secure Enclave (that's kind of the point). And now your phone is, at best, maybe an active danger to anyone you communicate with. At worst, it is one. You are a danger not just to yourself but to others by using that device, and the responsible thing to do is to burn it.

Apple is dealing with governmental-level threats (as well as the specter of dirty third-party repair shops) and is one of very few companies in the world that has even a very tiny chance of seriously combating this threat. Joe Phoneguy doesn't have the operational security to provide the guarantees that Apple has committed, publicly, to giving its users. (Which isn't to say that Apple or their certified repair folks are perfect. They're not. But they're making inroads on this problem, and Joe Phoneguy isn't helping.)
 

djbayko

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Do you mind if I ask why you had a third party do this? I just cracked a screen, collected a few quotes, and Apple came in low.
Apple was more expensive. I had this 3rd party repair cracked screens of my phone and my girlfriend's phone in the past without any issue.

I would never risk doing it without at leafy calling who did it and ask them what happens if it bricks.
Thanks, I plan on doing that. I was wondering if anyone knew the answer to my question, just to know how worried I should be until I make that phone call.

Since no seems to know, I'm moderately worried.
 
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Blacken

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The fix is "don't use fundamentally unverifiable parts in your cryptographic system". Would you expect a third-party fix for your RSA key fob to work?

The world is a scary place, infosec is both technically and socially hard and literally-literally everyone's mandatory concern, and you've gotten to coast for a long time because it hasn't been damaging enough yet for manufacturers to enforce some sanity. But it is now. Deal with it. Or buy Android; nobody gives a shit there.
 

djbayko

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The fix is "don't use fundamentally unverifiable parts in your cryptographic system". Would you expect a third-party fix for your RSA key fob to work?

The world is a scary place, infosec is both technically and socially hard and literally-literally everyone's mandatory concern, and you've gotten to coast for a long time because it hasn't been damaging enough yet for manufacturers to enforce some sanity. But it is now. Deal with it. Or buy Android; nobody gives a shit there.
Okay, fine. Then Apple has a responsibility to tell their customers this in big fucking neon letters before the fact, because I'm just a user who went to get a cracked screen fixed. I'm not an infosec expert who knowingly subverted a cryptographic system.
 

Blacken

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Again, no, and this is why: because then you won't upgrade. Because you will remain a bad, potentially dangerous actor in the ecosystem--you just don't know about it. You are fundamentally, by fucking with the security essentials of your device, in the same position as a Windows computer with a virus. We do not say "oh, please clean your shit," we lock you out until you get handled.

Information security is a really nasty business and it's just gonna get worse; Apple doing this now is a lot better than Apple doing this in the future. You are not important enough to endanger other people, and my only concern with this is that people who are completely fine to upgrade will try not to do so because they are scared by people who talk like you do. And at the same time, people like you are sending the message to Apple that fighting for their users is wrong and they shouldn't do it.
 

djbayko

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Again, no, and this is why: because then you won't upgrade. Because you will remain a bad, potentially dangerous actor in the ecosystem. You are fundamentally, by fucking with the security essentials of your device, in the same position as a Windows computer with a virus. We do not say "oh, please clean your shit," we lock you out until you get handled.

You are not important enough to endanger other people, and my only concern with this is that Apple will scare off people who are completely fine from upgrading because they are scared by people who talk like you do.
What are you talking about? Apple should brick your phone if you use a 3rd party but they shouldn't warn you about using a 3rd party?

The first time I had a cracked screen years ago, Apple Store gave me a huge fucking hassle. That's why I don't go to them any more, besides the fact that they priced out as more expensive.
 

Blacken

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What are you talking about? Apple should brick your phone if you use a 3rd party but they shouldn't warn you about using a 3rd party?
Apple should brick your phone because you are a danger to other people. With regards to before getting your shit repaired--when has Apple ever said that unauthorized third-party repair places were okay for anything? Why would you assume that a complex piece of electronics (and don't use "but but cars" as an analogy, because on plenty of models of car replacing the ECU with an identical one from another car puts the car into limp mode) is ever safe to be serviced by Joe Phoneguy in the mall?
 

NortheasternPJ

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I fully agree with you but just bricking people phones without warning isn't the right answer. They need to at least consider
The fix is "don't use fundamentally unverifiable parts in your cryptographic system". Would you expect a third-party fix for your RSA key fob to work?

The world is a scary place, infosec is both technically and socially hard and literally-literally everyone's mandatory concern, and you've gotten to coast for a long time because it hasn't been damaging enough yet for manufacturers to enforce some sanity. But it is now. Deal with it. Or buy Android; nobody gives a shit there.
I 100% agree with you, but one of the many issues I see is that Apple is distributing 75+ million devices a quarter globally and there is not in many areas of the world a legit place (or in Apple World an Apple Store only or limited authorized repair centers, many who have gone out of business) to get them fixed without not having them for days / weeks at a time. If you break your iPhone when traveling overseas or you live in a country with no Apple store, what are you going to do if you need the phone?

I don't have a problem with Apple doing what they are doing and i agree with it, I have a problem with them just enforcing the rules through a software update and telling people later, only after pressured by the media, to go pound sand. They have always said authorized repairs only, but have not to my knowledge ever in forced it to this level. They are in control of government secrets etc. but still act as a consumer company. They're playing both sides of the fence, which leads to shitty enterprise support and experiences like this on the customer side.

The RSA Key Fob is not a great comparison since they cost $50 list price for a new 24 month token and with discounts you're getting them for like $30. Plus they're not built out of glass and can easily break like a phone. They're 100% plastic exterior, if you even use a physical token.
 

djbayko

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Apple should brick your phone because you are a danger to other people. With regards to before getting your shit repaired--when has Apple ever said that unauthorized third-party repair places were okay for anything? Why would you assume that a complex piece of electronics (and don't use "but but cars" as an analogy, because on plenty of models of car replacing the ECU with an identical one from another car puts the car into limp mode) is ever safe to be serviced by Joe Phoneguy in the mall?
Big neon letters. It's a cracked screen. We're talking about bricking a phone...pretty big deal. In any case, I'll call Apple.
 

Blacken

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I fully agree with you but just bricking people phones without warning isn't the right answer.
There is literally no other answer, though. You have no other option. You can't tell people "oh this might brick you" because they remain bad actors in the system to avoid inconvenience, and they endanger everyone else (like, my iMessages can be read by a bad actor who's compromised your phone because he has your encryption key for our message tuple). This is the hardest of hard choices in infosec and Apple took the one that will bloody them in the short term but in the long term be the one that preserves consumer safety.

I know people who have had to wargame this situation for cryptographically sensitive products. The answer, inexorably, is this one, and Apple deserves applause, not but-but-my-phooooones, for standing up and doing the hard and right thing.
 

Blacken

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They have always said authorized repairs only, but have not to my knowledge ever in forced it to this level.
Also, my understanding is that it's still not "forcing" first-party repairs; as far as I know, you can re-use the mated touch-ID sensor assembly if it's extricated from the old screen. But that requires not just ham-handing your repair job, which Joe Phoneguy will do because it's easier and cheaper. If you're traveling and, say, the fingerprint sensor itself breaks, that sucks, but your passcodes will still work just fine so long as there isn't physical damage to the underlying TouchID processor (and if that's damaged, your phone is probably inoperable for many other reasons).
 

NortheasternPJ

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There is literally no other answer, though. You have no other option. You can't tell people "oh this might brick you" because they remain bad actors in the system (like, my iMessages can be read by a bad actor who's compromised your phone because he has your encryption key for our message tuple). This is the hardest of hard choices in infosec and Apple took the one that will bloody them in the short term but in the long term be the one that preserves consumer safety.

I know people who have had to wargame this situation for cryptographically sensitive products. The answer, inexorably, is this one, and Apple deserves applause, not but-but-my-phooooones, for standing up and doing the hard and right thing.
There are two other answers:

1) Warning consumers out of the gate that it will brick your phone. If you've never done this before, just applying an update that does it is in almost no one's best interest, outside of those who've had bad threat actors compromise their phone.
2) Not making replacing glass on an iPhone a profit center. I don't expect them to charge cost, but there's no way it costs Apple $129 to replace a screen or probably even a fraction of that, which is why people are going to other sources.

I applaud and always Apple have for their security, but I don't like how they handled this from a marketing / PR aspect. Apple is 100% doing the right thing for security, they haven't handled it correctly in terms of informing consumers. I don't need to be told what the ramifications are for unauthorized hardware repair, I get it. I've worked with companies on embedded security and producing secure firmware updates, PKI infrastructures etc. 99% of those things are not seen as something that needs 3rd party repair of a regular basis.

This problem is only going to get worse with more Internet connected devices and I think Apple is taking the right approach, outside of just bricking phones all of a sudden. If you're going to do it, great, just notify people during the update process it will make phones with 3rd party parts no longer operational in a notice consumers can understand and not have to read through 197 pages of iTunes agreements to get.

Blacken, where do you stand on 3rd party hard drives or RAM for a desktop or laptop computer?
 
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Blacken

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There are two other answers:

1) Warning consumers out of the gate that it will brick your phone. If you've never done this before, just applying an update that does it is in almost no one's best interest, outside of those who've had bad threat actors compromise their phone.
This should have been policy from the beginning, for sure, but I expect that the reason it's being done now is because they have an in-house proof of concept of an actual, practicable attack on the Secure Enclave through this threat vector. The only thing Apple can do now is lock the door after the horses have bolted, and that sucks but the alternative is so much worse. And the hard choice is that you can't tell a potential bad actor that you're going to knife them before you do it, because then they won't stand still for it. So...yeah, going forward they should make it clear, but I think it's inescapable that they couldn't do that here.

2) Not making replacing glass on an iPhone a profit center. I don't expect them to charge cost, but there's no way it costs Apple $129 to replace a screen or probably even a fraction of that, which is why people are going to other sources.
I would be surprised if they're making a lot off of that. Certainly some profit, and they could probably knock it down a little, but people are gonna be salty at $89 too.

Honestly, I'd rather Apple not repair security-sensitive parts of devices at all, at least at the consumer level. Every damage should just be an RMA/replacement. (And that's a lot easier to price out.)

This problem is only going to get worse with more Internet connected devices and I think Apple is taking the right approach, outside of just bricking phones all of a sudden. If you're going to do it, great, just notify people during the update process it will make phones with 3rd party parts no longer operational in a notice consumers can understand and not have to read through 197 pages of iTunes agreements to get.
But you're not being patched to protect you, you're being patched to protect everyone else. So the only way this would be acceptable is if unpatched devices could not access any multi-user Apple services like iCloud or iMessage, nor any functions of the Secure Enclave (because of local, though encrypted, caches of iCloud/iMessage data). But then, how do you ensure that devices that are unpatched are not compromised to make iOS able to re-engage the Secure Enclave and restart the cycle of fuckery?

If you answer that question, I will agree with you. But I don't think an answer exists. Infosec is goddamn hard.
 

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2007
12,152
Blacken, where do you stand on 3rd party hard drives or RAM for a desktop or laptop computer?
To the best of my understanding (and this may not be true for PCIe-based storage solutions), nothing coming over SATA has a practicable attack vector into the CPU, to say nothing of the TPM (and if it was it would probably be specific to the board and the SATA controller), so I'm fine with those. RAM too, as RAM's connectivity is strictly electrical coming back down the bus and it's functionally inert. Both of those examples are peripheral devices; the system is designed (if not perfectly) to deal with bad peripherals. Similarly, I think that bricking an iPhone because of a replacement to an actual peripheral, like a third-party Lightning cable, would be totally not cool. But I'm OK with bricking a laptop if somebody, say, replaces the southbridge on the board with something else, even though nobody's actually cryptographically securing that right now; the only reason I can think of to do that is to fuck with somebody else, so err on the side of caution and shut it all down. I view the TouchID sensor as being much more like that than a third-party hard disk.

There's also the whole "this is a device, it is not a computer" thing about iOS that, frankly, I don't like, but that's one of the reasons that the only consumer OS I would trust with life-or-death data that absolutely under no circumstances could ever, ever be leaked is non-rooted iOS. It is a hard nut to crack, and this just makes it harder.


EDIT: Here's a rule of thumb that I just put together: if a component has its own processing capability, it should either be irreversibly mated to the system or be treated as a peripheral and have all of its communication with the core system strictly controlled and dealt with through black-box-testable means. TouchID isn't that and can't be that without a significant redesign of the hardware, not just a software flash, and so it's a difference in kind from RAM (electrical in nature, the actual brains of the operation are on the motherboard) or hard drives (SATA controllers aren't part of the hard drive). When it comes to more advanced peripherals, like PCIe stuff, I think that's where you can start expecting some technical knowledge and agency on the part of the user--if you use a third-party SATA controller on a PCIe board, I trust that you know what you're doing, and if you don't that's your own damn fault. (This is also why Thunderbolt worries me a little, as it's bringing PCIe external to the machine and I can think of all sorts of really dirty shit that an attacker could do. It's bad enough that people plug their phones into random USB outlets...)
 
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djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,944
Los Angeles, CA
So everything I'm reading seems to indicate that Error 53 is only applicable to people who had their home button replaced (or their screen and home button replaced), not the screen alone. The technician I used confirmed that he's familiar with Error 53, that he did not replace the home button, and that I should be fine. I have read about a few cases online where people replaced their screen only and still got Error 53 because the home button assembly was inadvertently altered somehow (e.g. damaged cable), so I suppose that's still a risk. But I'm feeling a lot better about my situation. We'll see what happens.

BTW, Blacken, the reason I was upset is because I didn't ask to have any security features altered. I only wanted my screen fixed, and I honestly had no idea that Apple didn't authorize this because I know countless people who have done it. If my fingerprint scanning home button was broken, I would have been a lot more cautious.
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
19,334
3rd party hard drives can have thinks like boot kits in the MBR that can cause a ton of issues.

The issue I see is you go ahead and think of TouchID and the ramifications when replacing it due to security reasons. Of the 75 million iPhones sold last quarter do you think 70 million? 74 million? People with a broken screen even think of what we're talking about here?

Apple has often sold to the least sophisticated user and is a consumer company. i don't expect anyone in my family or friends currently to even think of it with a cracked screen, especially when there are 10
IFix type locations in legitimate locations like a mall.

My only issue is really notice and in something consumers can understand
 

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2007
12,152
BTW, Blacken, the reason I was upset is because I didn't ask to have any security features altered. I only wanted my screen fixed, and I honestly had no idea that Apple didn't authorize this because I know countless people who have done it. If my fingerprint scanning home button was broken, I would have been a lot more cautious.
So, yes, this is my job and my hobby so I'm biased, but this viewpoint is hugely dangerous. Your phone, in 2016, is basically your life. It probably knows more about you than somebody could find by rifling through your trash and probably not much less than breaking into your papers at home. I cannot envision a situation where I would trust something that important to a random mall kiosk.

This shit is important, and people are gonna get hurt until they clue in. Manufacturers need to do more about it in general.

The issue I see is you go ahead and think of TouchID and the ramifications when replacing it due to security reasons. Of the 75 million iPhones sold last quarter do you think 70 million? 74 million? People with a broken screen even think of what we're talking about here?
I don't think that I care if they think about it. I care that Apple does, and while Apple hasn't been perfect about it, they are making the right choice when all of the choices suck.