Vlade and The Trainwrecks - Live in Concert!

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Where to begin.....

Boogie is Boogie, Karl comes in and pushes to trade Boogie only to attempt to make up in Vegas resulting in Boogie giving him the cold shoulder for all to see. Sign Rondo who is best buds with Gay and who knows what with Boogie or Karl. The owner hires Dean Oliver as his key analytics guy, Vlade power plays his way to running the team, and told Oliver not to show up in Vegas. Now it's out that Vlade is vehemently anti-analytics.

So to recap.....

Ranadive vs. Karl
Karl vs. Boogie
Divac vs. Ranadive
Divac vs. Oliver

And we don't know where Rondo and others fit in yet. Good times!!


http://www.sportando.com/en/usa/nba/170499/kings-vp-vlade-divac-halted-all-communication-with-dean-oliver.html
 

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
But on the plus side they're in the easier conference.
Ok no but they have their draft picks if their awful.
Ok no they did the pick swap deal and owe the Bulls a first round and the sixers too.

Oh dear. This could be some wreck.
Though Karl normally gets a good half season or even full season before his team wants to kill him. I suspect it will bubble quietly for a while and explode later.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,291
And now Vlade is trying to fill the FO with his buddies to build a block of support for the inevitable civil war.

Kings are a great league pass option this year if only to watch all of this play out in realtime from court side to the owner's suite.
 

SoxFanInCali

has the rich, deep voice of a god
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2005
15,568
California. Duh.
I've rooted for them since they moved to SacTown in 85.  I remember Bobby Hansen greeting Spud Webb when he was traded to the team with "Welcome to Hell".  I was watching on TV when they trailed the Lakers 40-4 at the end of the first quarter of a game.  I was at the press conference when they traded for Mitch Richmond (I was an intern at a local TV station), and he looked like someone had just told him his dog died.  I got a few good years during the Webber/Vlade/Peja era, only to see them denied a title thanks to one of the worst refereeing performances in American sports history.  I watched what I thought at the time was the last game in franchise history before they become Sonics 2.0.  And you think THIS season is going to be a train wreck/disaster?
 
At least people are talking about the team and this has the potential to be entertaining.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Kings hire the games 2nd female assistant coach in Lady Magic, Nancy Lieberman. She will be the first woman to both play and coach in a professional men's league after playing in the USBL decades ago. She has been a head coach and GM in the WNBA and spent a year as an assistant in the D-League. Her son TJ Cline is a 6-9 forward and one of the better players on the Richmond Spiders. I'm sure Rajon will have the utmost respect for her accomplishments as a player and pioneer of the women's game. /snark
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
"No Day at the Beech!"

Kings hire 82games.com founder Roland Beech away from the Mavericks to head their analytics department for Divac who wants nothing to do with analytics. Oh the joy he's in for.
 

jimv

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 5, 2011
1,118
Vlade's first official act as GM - smoking now allowed in Kings locker room. Exploiting a new market inefficiency already....
 

amfox1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2003
6,808
The back of your computer

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
The issue I see is that if I'm the Kings, and I'm ready to move on, I want to wait to see how the lottery shakes out before making that move. I don't want to move Cousins and then risk the Brooklyn pick ending up 8th. The Celtics would need to offer enough now that the Kings didn't want to wait.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,620
The issue I see is that if I'm the Kings, and I'm ready to move on, I want to wait to see how the lottery shakes out before making that move. I don't want to move Cousins and then risk the Brooklyn pick ending up 8th. The Celtics would need to offer enough now that the Kings didn't want to wait.

The flip side to that argument is that if the Celts get the number 1 and are high on a college player they wouldn't do the deal
 

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
The flip side to that argument is that if the Celts get the number 1 and are high on a college player they wouldn't do the deal
I think the Celtics would move the #1 overall pick for Cousins, basically regardless of how well Simmons, Skal, or Bender play.
 

TheRooster

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2001
2,483
That implies that there is nothing any of those guys could do to convince Danny et al to draft them instead of trading for Boogie. Which sort of implies that Boogie is one of the best players of all time. I believe that any of those guys could make a huge leap in the next 6 months such that their perceived value would be much higher than Boogie's.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,094
I think the Celtics would move the #1 overall pick for Cousins, basically regardless of how well Simmons, Skal, or Bender play.

I think that's right. But there is risk to the wait-and-see approach if you're Sacto. Maybe another deal opens up in the interim and the Celts go that route. Or the Sixers do, which means you can't play one off the other. Maybe Cousins gets pissed off while spending a season in limbo and does something stupid that hurts his value.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,671
I'm not going to deny Cousins' ability and when everything is going right for him he is a top 10 player, but I'm not really sure I want him on my team. If you trade the number one overall pick for one player, you basically think that the player you are trading for can be the best player on a championship team. Who really knows if Boogie is that? I understand his situation with the Kings has been horrible and it is hard to predict how he would perform in a program that wasn't Sacramento, but there have been plenty of top talents before that have been in similar situations (KG comes to mind) and have not conducted themselves in the manner that Cousins has. I know the Kings are a disaster of a franchise, but Boogie has never even won 30 games in a season. If we are going to trade someone that is equal in value to the number one overall pick, and they are in their prime, I expect them to be able to carry a team, no matter how bad, to at least 40 wins or something.
 

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
Did you have similar concerns about Kevin Love in Minnesota? That guy was addicted to losing.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,205
I'm not going to deny Cousins' ability and when everything is going right for him he is a top 10 player, but I'm not really sure I want him on my team. If you trade the number one overall pick for one player, you basically think that the player you are trading for can be the best player on a championship team. Who really knows if Boogie is that? I understand his situation with the Kings has been horrible and it is hard to predict how he would perform in a program that wasn't Sacramento, but there have been plenty of top talents before that have been in similar situations (KG comes to mind) and have not conducted themselves in the manner that Cousins has. I know the Kings are a disaster of a franchise, but Boogie has never even won 30 games in a season. If we are going to trade someone that is equal in value to the number one overall pick, and they are in their prime, I expect them to be able to carry a team, no matter how bad, to at least 40 wins or something.
I think its impossible to say anything about Cousins given how dysfunctional the Kings have been over the past six years. Some of his behavior suggests that your concerns are real, however he is still only 25 and one of the best all around bigs in the Association. Cousins clearly has the skills to be dominant and on the right team, with the right supporting cast, he could lead a winner. As such, he is still far more valuable than just about any of the guys that may go number one in the draft. If he were available, Ainge needs to make that call.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,494
Quick - which five-man unit has the best plus/minus in the entire NBA?

Hint: it doesn't include anyone named Curry or James.

Give up?

The answer is, in all of 43 minutes, Rondo, McLemore, Gay, Cousins and Willie Cauley-Stein.

From a stats standpoint, the Kings aren't as bad as their record indicate and they've played a very hard opening schedule. See https://sacramentopress.com/2015/11/11/is-the-2015-16-sacramento-kings-season-lost-not-quite-yet/ Perhaps the Kings are the Ravens of the NBA - without the drama.
 

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
Quick - which five-man unit has the best plus/minus in the entire NBA?

Hint: it doesn't include anyone named Curry or James.

Give up?

The answer is, in all of 43 minutes, Rondo, McLemore, Gay, Cousins and Willie Cauley-Stein.
Actually, it's not, but they are 5th.

From a stats standpoint, the Kings aren't as bad as their record indicate and they've played a very hard opening schedule.
They've played about a league average schedule (1 point better). They have been demolished against that schedule. Adjusted for schedule, they were playing as a 29 win team. Now, that's without Cousins for a bunch of games, so I agree they're better than that, but they're also a ways from being good.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,671
Did you have similar concerns about Kevin Love in Minnesota? That guy was addicted to losing.
I wouldn't have traded the number overall pick for Love, and although Love's teams were not much better (though he did win 40 games his final season in Minnesota) Love didn't have the character issues that Boogie has had since he arrived in Sacramento.

I think its impossible to say anything about Cousins given how dysfunctional the Kings have been over the past six years. Some of his behavior suggests that your concerns are real, however he is still only 25 and one of the best all around bigs in the Association. Cousins clearly has the skills to be dominant and on the right team, with the right supporting cast, he could lead a winner. As such, he is still far more valuable than just about any of the guys that may go number one in the draft. If he were available, Ainge needs to make that call.
I don't agree with this part though, if Boogie is presumably more valuable to a franchise than any of the prospective number one overall picks, like TheRooster said, one of the best players of All-Time. The last 20 number one overall picks:

1995:Joe Smith-wouldn't take over Boogie
1996: Allen Iverson-would take over Boogie
1997: Tim Duncan-would take over Boogie
1998: Michael Olowokandi-wouldn't take over Boogie
1999: Elton Brand-debatable, probably not
2000: Kenyon Martin-no
2001: Kwame Brown-no
2002: Yao Ming-debatable, if healthy yes
2003: Lebron James-yes
2004: Dwight Howard-yes
2005: Andrew Bogut-no
2006: Andrea Bargnani-no
2007: Greg Oden-no
2008: Derrick Rose-similar to Yao, probably yes
2009: Blake Griffin-Yes
2010: John Wall-No
2011: Kyrie Irving-No
2012: Anthony Davis-Yes
2013: Anthony Bennett-No
2014: Andrew Wiggins-Too soon, I would say yes
2015: Karl-Anthony Towns- Similar to Wiggins

So on paper, I think the number overall pick is probably worth less than Boogie. However, the number one picks that are worth more (Iverson, Duncan, LeBron, Dwight, Blake) are worth significantly more than Boogie. So if you trust Danny to draft the right guy, I think it is impossible to say that it is unlikely that the number one pick is going to be worse than Boogie, particularly because we haven't seen many of them play.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,205
I don't agree with this part though, if Boogie is presumably more valuable to a franchise than any of the prospective number one overall picks, like TheRooster said, one of the best players of All-Time. The last 20 number one overall picks:

1995:Joe Smith-wouldn't take over Boogie
1996: Allen Iverson-would take over Boogie
1997: Tim Duncan-would take over Boogie
1998: Michael Olowokandi-wouldn't take over Boogie
1999: Elton Brand-debatable, probably not
2000: Kenyon Martin-no
2001: Kwame Brown-no
2002: Yao Ming-debatable, if healthy yes
2003: Lebron James-yes
2004: Dwight Howard-yes
2005: Andrew Bogut-no
2006: Andrea Bargnani-no
2007: Greg Oden-no
2008: Derrick Rose-similar to Yao, probably yes
2009: Blake Griffin-Yes
2010: John Wall-No
2011: Kyrie Irving-No
2012: Anthony Davis-Yes
2013: Anthony Bennett-No
2014: Andrew Wiggins-Too soon, I would say yes
2015: Karl-Anthony Towns- Similar to Wiggins

So on paper, I think the number overall pick is probably worth less than Boogie. However, the number one picks that are worth more (Iverson, Duncan, LeBron, Dwight, Blake) are worth significantly more than Boogie. So if you trust Danny to draft the right guy, I think it is impossible to say that it is unlikely that the number one pick is going to be worse than Boogie, particularly because we haven't seen many of them play.
I am not sure we disagree - but let me rephrase my statement. Given what we know about Cousins' skill-set and his age, he is likely more valuable than next year's high draft picks. Looking at that list and waiving away the fact that 20 data points are a relatively small sample size a 65% hit rate on number one picks (and I am being kind here as I took some of your "wouldn't take over Boogie" comments and reversed them - hello John Wall and Kyrie!) doesn't give me confidence that your average NBA GM is able to find potential that will realize versus actual realized potential.

This is what we know - DeMarcus Cousins is a damn good basketball player against the best competition the world has to offer, all the while playing for a team that can best be described as in a state of flux. Who knows what he would be like in a more stable situation but to me there is a fair bit of upside over an already established base. The real question is if he can or will buy into a system that doesn't always make him the focal point.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,475
Melrose, MA
I am not sure we disagree - but let me rephrase my statement. Given what we know about Cousins' skill-set and his age, he is likely more valuable than next year's high draft picks. Looking at that list and waiving away the fact that 20 data points are a relatively small sample size a 65% hit rate on number one picks (and I am being kind here as I took some of your "wouldn't take over Boogie" comments and reversed them - hello John Wall and Kyrie!) doesn't give me confidence that your average NBA GM is able to find potential that will realize versus actual realized potential.

This is what we know - DeMarcus Cousins is a damn good basketball player against the best competition the world has to offer, all the while playing for a team that can best be described as in a state of flux. Who knows what he would be like in a more stable situation but to me there is a fair bit of upside over an already established base. The real question is if he can or will buy into a system that doesn't always make him the focal point.
Exactly. If Danny was willing to back up the truck and unload assets for Justise Winslow then he ought to be willing to go much further than that for Boogie.

I think the complicating factor here is that Sacramento will be right there with us in the mix for Ben Simmons even if they keep Boogie.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,494
Actually, it's not, but they are 5th.



They've played about a league average schedule (1 point better). They have been demolished against that schedule. Adjusted for schedule, they were playing as a 29 win team. Now, that's without Cousins for a bunch of games, so I agree they're better than that, but they're also a ways from being good.
So what you're saying is that I should never trust what I read on the internet? Duh.

As for schedule, before last night, they've played the Clippers twice, Memphis, GS, San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, and, of course, the Lakers. That seems tougher than, just to pick one, the 'Zards, who played the Magic, the Bucks, the Knicks, the Spurs, the Cs the Hawks, and the Thunder, but it's still early and this is pretty subjective.

Nice win last night.
 

smastroyin

simpering whimperer
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2002
20,684
I think the complicating factor here is that Sacramento will be right there with us in the mix for Ben Simmons even if they keep Boogie.
Kind of. Philly has the right to swap picks with them, so if you think Simmons is number one they have no chance other than to work something out with the Sixers.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 19, 2008
3,932
Honestly, that trade by Philly may have been better than the Pierce/KG trade to Brooklyn.

They got Stauskas, and what could be 2 unprotected lottery picks for the rights to Arturas Gudaitis and Luka Mitrovic. All so Vlade could try...and fail...to sign Wes Matthews and Monte Ellis. They gave up what could be 2 number one picks for literally nothing.

As for Boogie, he scares the crap out of me but I'd take a chance on him. Put him on a team with a stable front office and coaching staff, one that knows how to get the most out of his talents, and he could really blossom. Or he could pull a Kermit Washington and nearly kill someone on the court. That, in itself, is enough intrigue for me. I think a deal is more likely to come together after the season once the ping pong balls tell us how good that Brooklyn pick is. Sacramento won't want to trade for the pick without knowing where it will be and Danny may not want to give up #1 for Cousins.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,094
Honestly, that trade by Philly may have been better than the Pierce/KG trade to Brooklyn.
I'm not sure it's that bad. The 2018 pick they get is top 10 protected, and the pick-swap rights in 2016 and 2017 aren't likely to result in much since the Sixers will suck too, probably. And Stauskas is meh. Don't get me wrong, nice move for the Sixers, but the Nets deal has a much higher likelihood of being franchise-altering.
 

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
And this is why the Kings got killed by that logic.
The swap right this year are going to be a load of extra lottery balls for the sixers, and lower the risk of hosed in the lottery. Say the Kings are 5/6th worse record and Sixers are 2nd worse. One of the teams that can bumb the Sixers back is the Kings, which the Sixers cna swap with awesome.
More importantly next year, when the Sixers could be a little better, this gives them a free chance of the Kings being awful (say they trade Boogie to the Celts). They could easily be god awful next year.
And FYI if the pick isn't pass on in 2018 it is UNPROTECTED in 2019.

A top 10 lottery pick, a year removed from a much hyped draft, a free option on lottery balls this year, a free option on the kings being worse (or lottery luck) next year and a potentially unprotected pick in 2019.
This COULD (very unlikely) end up giving up three number one picks (two just swaps though) AND stauskas so the Kings could sign Rondo and play him 48 minutes a game.

The worst case for this trade is insane, and the best player involved was a year 2 rookie who went WITH the picks. It may end being not much, is Stauskas doesn't work out, and the swaps don't happen it could be a mid 2018 1st and who cares. But the best/ worst case is crazy.
 

smastroyin

simpering whimperer
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2002
20,684
Yeah, I think the swapping picks is a pretty big consideration in drafts where there are a few marquee guys and especially so in any draft with a generational number 1 (not that this year is that, but in general). Even if you are swapping 2 and 3 that can be terrible.

Obviously it's not as bad as if say the Spurs had swap rights with the Kings, but it's still has some real value.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Cousins is far and away their most dominant and impactful player......why would they trade him? When he is out of the lineup the team doesn't even compete, when he's in the lineup they are a borderline playoff team. I actually like how this team is responding to the craziness and LOVE Vlade's psychological angle in asking the team if they want to fire Karl. The bonding is beginning and I'm becoming a fan of this team so far this year.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 19, 2008
3,932
I'm not sure it's that bad. The 2018 pick they get is top 10 protected, and the pick-swap rights in 2016 and 2017 aren't likely to result in much since the Sixers will suck too, probably. And Stauskas is meh. Don't get me wrong, nice move for the Sixers, but the Nets deal has a much higher likelihood of being franchise-altering.
Yeah, in terms of what the C's are likely getting back from Brooklyn, that is probably the better deal. But at least Brooklyn got to run Pierce and KG out there to make an (ill-advised) run at a title. Sacramento got nothing back and wiffed on two of their free agents targets they wanted to sign with the money they saved in the trade. That's unbelievably bad GM'ing.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2007
4,932
East Village, NYC
Rondo's on/off numbers are still pretty bad, and the Kings offense is still much better when he's not on the floor, but Cousins is. That was even more glaring when Collison was healthy, and I suspect when Collison comes back that's going to become more and more obvious.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,298
deep inside Guido territory
Rondo is a complete asshole. His suspension is because he used anti-gay slurs towards referee Billy Kennedy. Kennedy revealed to Yahoo Sports that he is gay in the quoted article.

Kennedy's announcement comes in the wake of the NBA's suspension of Sacramento Kings guardRajon Rondo, who game officials, including Kennedy, heard unleash a disturbing torrent of anti-gay slurs following his ejection from a game on Dec. 3 in Mexico City.

After Kennedy, 49, ejected Rondo with consecutive technical fouls in a Kings loss to the Boston Celtics, Rondo defied league protocol to immediately leave the court and began stalking Kennedy, who had retreated to a far sideline of the floor.

In the game officials’ report used as part of the NBA's investigation – which includes details provided to Yahoo Sports from National Basketball Referee's Association general counsel Lee Seham – Kennedy and fellow referee Ben Taylor described Rondo's post-ejection diatribe as including the statements: "You're a mother------- faggot. … You're a f------ faggot, Billy."

Seham reported that a third official, Bennie Adams, outside of hearing distance, "affirmed that Rondo aggressively pursued referee Bill Kennedy and had to be restrained by teammates and escorted off the floor by Sacramento team security."

The three officials – Kennedy, Taylor and Adams – confirmed those reports in taped interviews conducted by NBA security on Dec. 4, Seham said.
Seham told Yahoo Sports: "The NBA referees stand by Bill Kennedy for the job he does and who he is. We stand against bigotry in all its forms."
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-referee-bill-kennedy-reveals-he-is-gay--rajon-rondo-made-alleged-homosexual-slur-to-him-174255321.html
 

GBrushTWood

New Member
Jul 12, 2005
372
Brookline
As we all knew, Rondo is an asshole. Let there be no doubt, you can't go up to a ref and say those shitty things regardless of the refs sexual preference. Rondo is rightfully getting punished.

But the NBA has to be really careful here. I already see the social justice warrior / PC principal types rallying support to get further suspensions and fines levied on Rondo. If the NBA starts caving to these extremists, they quickly start treading into Roger Goodellian type of draconian / double jeopardy territory. Give Rondo a game, maybe put out a statement and be done with this shit. Hopefully they are wise enough not to placate the PC lynch mob.

Finally, on Kennedy: good for him for having the courage to publicly to come out of the closest. It probably feels good to be open about it. Although, I don't envy the type of hostility he is sure to receive after blowing a call against a home team down the road.

At the same time, him being gay doesn't change the fact that he is a shit referee. Any of us watching Celtics games during the Doc Rivers era could clearly see this guy had a vendetta against the Celtics that compromised the impartiality of the refereeing. I have no idea what Rivers said, but the NBA just can't let these types of personal vendettas carry on for so long. It turns the product into WWE territory. Maybe try mediating these types of conflicts?
Regardless, fuck Kennedy for allowing his personal grudges to affect the most important criteria of his job: his impartiality.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,425
As we all knew, Rondo is an asshole. Let there be no doubt, you can't go up to a ref and say those shitty things regardless of the refs sexual preference. Rondo is rightfully getting punished.

But the NBA has to be really careful here. I already see the social justice warrior / PC principal types rallying support to get further suspensions and fines levied on Rondo. If the NBA starts caving to these extremists, they quickly start treading into Roger Goodellian type of draconian / double jeopardy territory. Give Rondo a game, maybe put out a statement and be done with this shit. Hopefully they are wise enough not to placate the PC lynch mob.
Wow.

You, sir, are a faggot.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,425
By the way, this is the second time Bennie has had to endure a player harassing him over his sexuality (Kobe in 2011). And that's just the two that have gone public.

If players want to be bigots, they can do it off the court. Rondo didn't learn from Kobe's mistake - Kobe was fined $100k - so he absolutely should be punished. The 1 game suspension was for not leaving the court upon being ejected. He shouldn't get another few for trying to intimidate and harass someone over their sexual preference? Give me a break.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,460
By the way, this is the second time Bennie has had to endure a player harassing him over his sexuality (Kobe in 2011). And that's just the two that have gone public.

If players want to be bigots, they can do it off the court. Rondo didn't learn from Kobe's mistake - Kobe was fined $100k - so he absolutely should be punished. The 1 game suspension was for not leaving the court upon being ejected. He shouldn't get another few for trying to intimidate and harass someone over their sexual preference? Give me a break.

That was Bennie Adams (who I don't think is gay? Not sure, but certainly from people in the league talking it wasn't an intentional thing by Kobe, just using anti-gay slurs in a general applicaton)this is Bill Kennedy.

As a note, unreliable source Tim Donaghy outed Kennedy 5 years ago, saying that one of the reasons Kennedy hated Doc Rivers was because of stuff Doc said about his sexuality. Nobody picked it up at the time, likely because Donaghy is a scumbag and Kennedy wasn't out.

Now that he's out Haralabos Voulgaris said on twitter that some similar stuff was what started/escalated the Doc Rivers/Kennedy feud back in 2009
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
At the same time, him being gay doesn't change the fact that he is a shit referee. Any of us watching Celtics games during the Doc Rivers era could clearly see this guy had a vendetta against the Celtics that compromised the impartiality of the refereeing. I have no idea what Rivers said, but the NBA just can't let these types of personal vendettas carry on for so long. It turns the product into WWE territory. Maybe try mediating these types of conflicts?
Regardless, fuck Kennedy for allowing his personal grudges to affect the most important criteria of his job: his impartiality.
Oh please. Have a clue as to what you're talking about here. Since when has impartiality been a staple of NBA officiating?

Kennedy is a highly rated referee he isn't shit (although Celtics fanboys who only watch him do Celtic games would obviously disagree) and the best officials in the NBA have historically allowed personal vendettas to affect the outcome of games. That of course doesn't make it right but to say that the league can't begin to allow this to continue or else......it has continued for frickin decades and the league is growing just fine!! What you should have said was that you'd hope that someday it will end but the way you phrased it sounds like you began watching the league in 2007.
 

GBrushTWood

New Member
Jul 12, 2005
372
Brookline
If that implication (that the league won't grow due to biased refereeing) was how my message came across, then I apologize for not being clear. I don't think that is the case. The league is growing just fine.
I do think it would be beneficial for fans if the NBA had (or at least publicized) a process to handle these kinds of disputes with the referees. At the moment, it just seems like they penalize the player/referee, move on, and ignore what's really happening between these people. Maybe they do have a process but don't really publicize it?

Under Stern, a dispute resolution process would never happen in a million years. Silver ostensibly seems more open to change, so maybe this is possible. It could help reduce poor PR (Duncan/Crawford or Rivers/Kennedy for example).
On the other hand, there isn't a ton of incentive for the NBA as there will always be a raving lunatic fringe claiming the refs are r1gGed!1! For rational folks though, it wouldn't hurt.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,291
So what's worse, Bill Kennedy having a vendetta against a bigot coach or a bigot coach having a vendetta against a homosexual?

If Doc allowed his personal beliefs to hurt his team that's far worse than anything Kennedy might have done.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,467
Somewhere
But the NBA has to be really careful here. I already see the social justice warrior / PC principal types rallying support to get further suspensions and fines levied on Rondo. If the NBA starts caving to these extremists, they quickly start treading into Roger Goodellian type of draconian / double jeopardy territory. Give Rondo a game, maybe put out a statement and be done with this shit. Hopefully they are wise enough not to placate the PC lynch mob.
Are you on crack?