#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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nighthob

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BigSoxFan said:
We keep referencing Roger's fall but, really, why would it be any time soon? He just weathered some pretty shitty PR hits and NFL popularity is soaring. I really have no idea what it would take to get him removed from his position. I see his contract being re-upped indefinitely.
He's nearly been knocked out of his post twice now, and there's a significant minority of owners that wanted him out before Ballghazi. That group gained a new ally this winter. Goodell won't be making more friends between now and then.
 

Myt1

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OilCanShotTupac said:
 
Implicit, or maybe explict, in the criticism is that Smith and the NFL's outside counsel are wasting their clients' money on frivolous litigation - which, coming from the other side, is concern trolling of the worst kind.  "Hey union guys, look at all the money your lawyers are wasting!"
 
Assclown.
Especially because they keep, you know, fucking winning.
 

dcmissle

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nighthob said:
He's nearly been knocked out of his post twice now, and there's a significant minority of owners that wanted him out before Ballghazi. That group gained a new ally this winter. Goodell won't be making more friends between now and then.
Wha ...? Kraft got zero owner support on this. Zero. Which probably is just for Kraft personally since he was silent when the Saints were getting ass raped, complicit when Ray Rice was getting ass raped, and so forth. Not fair for the fans, team or coaches, but for Kraft poetic justice.

Anyone who thinks that RG is teetering should post in the thread about the Red Sox being buyers at the trading deadline.
 

lars10

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dcmissle said:
Wha ...? Kraft got zero owner support on this. Zero. Which probably is just for Kraft personally since he was silent when the Saints were getting ass raped, complicit when Ray Rice was getting ass raped, and so forth. Not fair for the fans, team or coaches, but for Kraft poetic justice.

Anyone who thinks that RG is teetering should post in the thread about the Red Sox being buyers at the trading deadline.
When did Ray Rice get ass raped exactly?

Edit: I mean I know that he was suspended two games and then a season but it's not like he didn't deserve that.. Or didn't he? The NFL handled it the worst possible way and Kraft shouldn't have stepped up for RG but Ray is not the victim here in my mind.
 

Joshv02

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Vincent is a liar and a not vey good one. Remember that the nflpa had tapes of his conversations with Peterson when he told AP the league wouldn't (couldn't!) use the new 2015 violence standards, while asking AP to just came in and confess his sins to Goodell. That of course was not at all the NFL position.
 

deanx0

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Joshv02 said:
Vincent is a liar and a not vey good one. Remember that the nflpa had tapes of his conversations with Peterson when he told AP the league wouldn't (couldn't!) use the new 2015 violence standards, while asking AP to just came in and confess his sins to Goodell. That of course was not at all the NFL position.
 
This is another example of the NFLPA wasting money and perfectly good tapes for one guy, Peterson, when the tapes would have been better used to record inspirational lectures for down on their luck players.
 

Average Reds

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deanx0 said:
 
This is another example of the NFLPA wasting money and perfectly good tapes for one guy, Peterson, when the tapes would have been better used to record inspirational lectures for down on their luck players.
Ok, I laughed.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I don't think he's right but I get what he's saying.  If BB would just coach (which he is great at) and not continually obsess over things that don't matter in the name of superstition, or gaining a small edge over the competition or whatever, then Pats players and coaches might not always be pushing the boundaries of the league rules, and the Pats wouldn't find themselves in these situations.  I think he's wrong because (a) obsessively looking for every conceivable (legal) edge over an opponent is part of what makes him a great coach, (b) I don't think any part of anything BB does in his game preparation is driven by superstition, and (c) other than Spygate there is really no evidence whatsoever that the Pats push the boundaries of league rules.  But I get what he's saying, and I totally understand from an opposing fan's standpoint why he thinks this way.
 
I agree with KFP that Bleedred's friend's take on the Pats is fairly reasonable as far as non-Pats fans goes, and not just because of the Bates College thing which as we know produces only very smart people.  We obsess over every little detail of the Wells report and this whole sordid affair because we are Pats fans and it matters to us, a lot.  Most other fans really don't give much of a shit (like this guy) but generally have little sympathy for the Pats (like this guy) and have no desire to dig into the facts and science and are happy relying on the circumstantial evidence that points at Brady's guilt (like this guy).  I actually think Bleedred's friend's take is more reasonable than most because he's not attributing any of the Pats success to any supposed "cheating".
 

simplyeric

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Ralphwiggum said:
I don't think he's right but I get what he's saying.  If BB would just coach (which he is great at) and not continually obsess over things that don't matter in the name of superstition, or gaining a small edge over the competition or whatever, then Pats players and coaches might not always be pushing the boundaries of the league rules, and the Pats wouldn't find themselves in these situations.  I think he's wrong because (a) obsessively looking for every conceivable (legal) edge over an opponent is part of what makes him a great coach, (b) I don't think any part of anything BB does in his game preparation is driven by superstition, and (c) other than Spygate there is really no evidence whatsoever that the Pats push the boundaries of league rules.  But I get what he's saying, and I totally understand from an opposing fan's standpoint why he thinks this way.
 
I agree with KFP that Bleedred's friend's take on the Pats is fairly reasonable as far as non-Pats fans goes, and not just because of the Bates College thing which as we know produces only very smart people.  We obsess over every little detail of the Wells report and this whole sordid affair because we are Pats fans and it matters to us, a lot.  Most other fans really don't give much of a shit (like this guy) but generally have little sympathy for the Pats (like this guy) and have no desire to dig into the facts and science and are happy relying on the circumstantial evidence that points at Brady's guilt (like this guy).  I actually think Bleedred's friend's take is more reasonable than most because he's not attributing any of the Pats success to any supposed "cheating".
 
Yeah that's a really interesting part of that.  Where does the notion of BB being superstitious come from?  
The ring says "do your job" not "sacrifice to the gods" or "glory be to Him" or something.  It's not like he treats the media in a certain way because he thinks it's good luck.
He didn't hassle the crap out of Colts receivers , or pick up Moss, or Gronk, or start Brady in 2001, or any of it because of what the entrails of a goat told him.  It's not like he's Nomar out there when he's calling plays.

He's a really knowledgeable guy, and he's been able to figure out how apply that and win.  He's certainly gotten lucky along the way too (I doubt he knew in 2001 that Brady was going to turn into "TB12: GOAT"), etc. etc.  
 
I doubt the guy even celebrates Christmas.
 

dcmissle

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lars 10:
 
I am going to back off the R word in this context. Rice was punished twice for same offense, which is fundamentally unfair.  Moreover, RG told a bold faced lie contending that Rice had misled the League -- an incredible contention given Ozzie Newsome's account that Rice provided an accurate description of what occurred.
 
Bob Kraft had RG's back throughout.  You cannot really complain when that kind of cynicism and overreach is then directed to you. 
 

Bleedred

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dcmissle said:
lars 10:
 
I am going to back off the R word in this context. Rice was punished twice for same offense, which is fundamentally unfair.  Moreover, RG told a bold faced lie contending that Rice had misled the League -- an incredible contention given Ozzie Newsome's account that Rice provided an accurate description of what occurred.
 
Bob Kraft had RG's back throughout.  You cannot really complain when that kind of cynicism and overreach is then directed to you. 
This.  I'm pissed that the Patriots are getting railroaded for something that more likely than not didn't happen (intentional deflation of the footballs), and if it did, was without the knowledge of the entire organization and Brady.  That said, Bob Kraft made his bed with the commissioner, throwing him a life preserver when he should have handed him an anvil.  It's quite ironic (some would say justly so) that Kraft is now the victim of the Commissioner's wildly erratic notion of justice and integrity.
 

Ralphwiggum

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The only thing I can think of that someone might point to as evidence that BB is superstitious is his in-game attire, going all the way back to the grey hoodie with the cut off sleeves.
 

JimBoSox9

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That might be eric's most sensical post ever.  The entire premise
 
Ralphwiggum said:
 If BB would just coach (which he is great at) and not continually obsess over things that don't matter in the name of superstition, or gaining a small edge over the competition or whatever, then Pats players and coaches might not always be pushing the boundaries of the league rules, and the Pats wouldn't find themselves in these situations.  
 
is so central to the Belichick mythos in the media, and I reject it in full.  I'm pretty confident I've read every word he's publicly spoken that could pertain to the 'organizational structure' of the Patriot Way.  There's strong evidence for a rigorous assesment of every process and competitive scenario to maximize advantages within the letter of the law.  There's strong evidence of heavy, heavy effort to instill and delegate those assessment principles all the way down the chain to the 'line officers' most heavily involved in them day-to-day.  There is no evidence at all to support the notion that Belichick himself is sitting there going over Rule 34.05(b) or placing video interns.  It's inimical to the very essence of "do your job".  
 
One can certainly make a coherent argument that those 'rigorous assessment principles' down the chain go beyond both the law and league-bog-standard gamemanship into a league of their own that still gets to the same conclusion, and hang Belichick on not having better quality control, but I do not think the particulars of that argument hold up to scrutiny (see Goodell v Cameras, 2007; Goodell v Balls, 2015).
 

ivanvamp

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The evidence that Goodell is inept, unfair, dishonest, inconsistent, power-hungry, and capricious is overwhelming.  A handful of exhibits….
 
- The lie that Rice misled the league, when he obviously didn't.
- Penalizing Rice twice, the second time only when they had egg on their face as the tape became public.
- The NFL front office leaking to Mortensen, while the NFL knew the information was false and very damaging, but not doing anything about it.
- Their handling of Peterson.
- Their absurd penalty in the Saints' case, which led to Tagliabue slapping Goodell across the face.
- The ridiculous handling of the Patriots' deflate issue, and the outright lies told by the NFL front office.
- Claiming to be big on player safety while pushing for extra games in the season, which will only do more to get more players hurt (it's all about the $$).
- The capricious way he hands out penalties.  Favre gets $50k for not cooperating; Brady gets $2 million and a four-game suspension.  The Pats lose $1 million and a first-rounder for taping; Denver gets $100,000 and no loss of picks for taping an opponent's practice, just 3 years after spygate.  
 
We could do this all day long.  I thought Bud Selig was awful, until Goodell came along.  
 

joe dokes

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First, I think the text messages between the equipment guys can only be explained by acknowledging that Brady actively sought to have these balls deflated and that he lied about it. On that score, I have no doubts after reading those texts.
 
 
 
Read literally, I agree with the bolded. I have little doubt that Brady made it very clear he wanted the balls at 12.5 and to be deflated if they weren't.  But that's not an allegation of rule -breaking -- deflating below 12.5 and after the ref-inspection.  The problem is that the definition of the crime has been lost in the sloppiness. laziness or vindictiveness of the NFL office and its media handmaidens.  Much like "any videotaping at all" became the Spygate crime, "any deflation at all" has become this one.  I also think Brady fully copped to Wells and Goodell that he made it well-known to the equipment guys how he liked the balls.
 
 

amarshal2

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Belichick is probably the least superstitious coach in the NFL.  He doesn't suffer fantasy and truisms over evidence and production.
 

Average Reds

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lars10 said:
When did Ray Rice get ass raped exactly?

Edit: I mean I know that he was suspended two games and then a season but it's not like he didn't deserve that.. Or didn't he? The NFL handled it the worst possible way and Kraft shouldn't have stepped up for RG but Ray is not the victim here in my mind.
 
The initial punishment of Ray Rice was ridiculously light.  But Goodell doesn't get to go back and change the punishment after a video surfaces that galvanizes public opinion and makes clear that Goodell was both a liar and a fool.  He has to follow the process that was negotiated as part of the CBA.  And we shouldn't look to justify the revision in the punishment by saying that "Rice deserved it" because that's utterly irrelevant. 
 
The phrase "slippery slope" gets tossed around a lot on SoSH.  (Mostly in V&N.)  But this is a time when it actually applies.  Rights - whether negotiated or legally/constitutionally mandated - either protect us all or they protect no one.  To strip Ray Rice of the protections in the CBA because we learned that Goodell lied about what actually happened is unacceptable. 
 

joe dokes

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Belichick does what *every* other coach does.  He just does it more effectively most of the time.  But that's not a sexy narrative, so his success is ascribed to inscrutable things like his demeanor.
 

Otis Foster

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dcmissle said:
lars 10:
 
I am going to back off the R word in this context. Rice was punished twice for same offense, which is fundamentally unfair.  Moreover, RG told a bold faced lie contending that Rice had misled the League -- an incredible contention given Ozzie Newsome's account that Rice provided an accurate description of what occurred.
 
Bob Kraft had RG's back throughout.  You cannot really complain when that kind of cynicism and overreach is then directed to you. 
 
 
My guess is that Kraft couldn't deal with possible ostracism from the NFL inner circle. He loves hanging with the Jerry Jones of the world.
 
This is not a guy who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. From an acquaintance who was a long time NEP insider, wealth and prominence have changed RK. He's not about to risk becoming an outsider. I can well imagine veiled threats that if he pursued the matter, they'd change the locks on him. He doesn't have Al Davis DNA.
 

Bleedred

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Otis Foster said:
 
 
My guess is that Kraft couldn't deal with possible ostracism from the NFL inner circle. He loves hanging with the Jerry Jones of the world.
 
This is not a guy who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. From an acquaintance who was a long time NEP insider, wealth and prominence have changed RK. He's not about to risk becoming an outsider. I can well imagine veiled threats that if he pursued the matter, they'd change the locks on him. He doesn't have Al Davis DNA.
Kraft was a very wealthy man the day he married Myra, or more specifically, took over the family business in 1968, but I take your bigger point.  He's just too enamored of being part of the billionaire's club, and he won't do anything to jeopardize that.   
 

bakahump

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To be fair neither would I.  And I think its safe to assume a shit load of other people wouldn't either.
 
Being a billionaire has got to be pretty goddamn cool.  And yes I realize that a bunch of rich old guys telling you "we dont like you anymore" wouldnt affect his bank account.....its still part of the "lifestyle".
 
Do I wish he had fought harder.....and you know....actually had an avenue to pursue?  Sure. 
 
But I guess I dont blame him for being human once he didnt.
 

BigJimEd

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Kraft's chance to do something was before the punishment came down.
That was the time to work the back channels with other owners and the league office. That was the time to build support and back this thing back down.

Unfortunately Kraft had no influence there. He couldn't even get the bleeping numbers. That's how much pull and respect he had.
 

ifmanis5

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ivanvamp said:
The evidence that Goodell is inept, unfair, dishonest, inconsistent, power-hungry, and capricious is overwhelming.  A handful of exhibits….
 
- The lie that Rice misled the league, when he obviously didn't.
- Penalizing Rice twice, the second time only when they had egg on their face as the tape became public.
- The NFL front office leaking to Mortensen, while the NFL knew the information was false and very damaging, but not doing anything about it.
- Their handling of Peterson.
- Their absurd penalty in the Saints' case, which led to Tagliabue slapping Goodell across the face.
- The ridiculous handling of the Patriots' deflate issue, and the outright lies told by the NFL front office.
- Claiming to be big on player safety while pushing for extra games in the season, which will only do more to get more players hurt (it's all about the $$).
- The capricious way he hands out penalties.  Favre gets $50k for not cooperating; Brady gets $2 million and a four-game suspension.  The Pats lose $1 million and a first-rounder for taping; Denver gets $100,000 and no loss of picks for taping an opponent's practice, just 3 years after spygate.  
 
We could do this all day long.  I thought Bud Selig was awful, until Goodell came along.  
You forgot lying about concussion medical evidence, his worst sin of all.
 

Bleedred

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BigJimEd said:
Kraft's chance to do something was before the punishment came down.
That was the time to work the back channels with other owners and the league office. That was the time to build support and back this thing back down.

Unfortunately Kraft had no influence there. He couldn't even get the bleeping numbers. That's how much pull and respect he had.
It's always been a fallacy, IMO, that Kraft had some sort of disproportionate power among the owners.  The media reported that he was helpful in negotiating the rich TV deal and solving the last labor negotiation,  but they then made (and still do I think) the illogical leap that somehow Kraft is more powerful/influential than the other 31.  Not one of them would cede their power to Kraft and it's pretty damn evident through this whole sorry situation that Kraft has no more (or less) power than anyone else. 
 

bakahump

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Kraft seems like he is uniquely positioned.
 
He can Float from the old guard (Rooneys, Hunts, Fords, Browns, Davis, Mccaskey/Halas, and Bidwell and Bowden I suppose)
The Mid Guards of the 90s (or as I think of them Morons with Money) (Snyder, Jones, Johnson and Allen)
And the New Guys (Wilf, Haslem, Khan and Pegula)
 
(There may be other cliques or omissions but you get the point)
Being able to "float" works great when you need to gather support from the different caucuses for something like a TV Contract.
 
Each one he can fit in with:
Old Guard (as a conservative owner)
MOMs (as a fellow 90s owner)
NGs (as a established owner)
 
 
 
The problem is he cant BE any of them.
He hasnt been around long enough to be and OG.
He isnt Rich enough/didnt come from money nor does he interfere (as the most prominent in this group do) with his Football Operations to be a MOM
He isnt new enough to be a NG.
 
So NONE of them truly have his back.  Its like that kid in HS who floats from clique to clique.  He gets invited to the parties and everyone likes him well enough......but when the bully from another school shows up and threatens to kick his ass everyone disavows themselves.
 
Who do you think is his "Best Ally"?    Jones? (my best guess).
 
When the unpredictable JJ is your best ally.......your in trouble.
 

pappymojo

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In terms of Goodell there was also his claim that no one in the league office ever saw the Rice video eventhough someone had previously leaked a very accurate description to Mort and someone else had a voice recording from someone who worked at the office and who confirmed receipt of the video.
 

ifmanis5

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pappymojo said:
In terms of Goodell there was also his claim that no one in the league office ever saw the Rice video eventhough someone had previously leaked a very accurate description to Mort and someone else had a voice recording from someone who worked at the office and who confirmed receipt of the video.
That poor secretary. Can only imagine which district of Siberia she was shipped out to.
 

riboflav

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joe dokes said:
Belichick does what *every* other coach does.  He just does it more effectively most of the time.  But that's not a sexy narrative, so his success is ascribed to inscrutable things like his demeanor.
 
I actually think his demeanor has a lot to do with his success in that he outright owns his personality. He doesn't try to be someone he's not. I think he gets a lot of respect inside the locker room for this. Different demeanors can win (see: Pete Carroll), but being true to yourself and just owning it (like Carroll and BB both do) can sometimes separate good coaches from bad.
 

troparra

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Bleedred said:
 
But that same masterful coach misattributes his success to things that have nothing to do with his success. His superstition, his interview personality, whatever stupid thing one wants to point to, are seen, along with pushing the boundaries of league rules, as part of the reason they win.
 
 
 
Are seen by who?  Not Belichick.
 
Other coaches and team officials, the media and fans think this, not Belichick. That's why everybody is so paranoid of the Patriots cheating.   
 

dcmissle

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I put this more on ESPN; there are degrees of being compromised.
 
For all the shilling that Collinsworth does, Al Michaels is pretty much is own man (I don't think the NFL likes the continual jokes about gambling), and as we have seen recently, Florio is running wild.  In fact, it was disclosed on PFT.com today that NBC has re-upped him for another 3 years, and in that piece Florio noted that he really didn't want to sign on 6 years ago and so demanded editorial control.  To his amazement, he says, Florio got it.  And he certainly appears to be using it.
 
ESPN is a complete sell, and makes no bones about it.  Forget the commentary, the basic news coverage is out of the old Soviet Union.  If stuff is inconvenient or awkward, it's ignored (and not just the NFL -- I'll never forget their crawl when Tiger's ex took the iron upside his vehicle).  The creative stuff and commentary -- forget it.  If I'm recalling correctly, Playmakers dies after its first season, when Tagliabue was still in charge.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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We all knew all Olberman was short lived for his return to ESPN. The only variable in question was which target he chose to harp on would be the catalyst. We have our answer.
 

uncannymanny

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dcmissle said:
If I'm recalling correctly, Playmakers dies after its first season, when Tagliabue was still in charge.
Yeah, and still not available on streaming services (though I'm not sure if that's just a demand issue).
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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uncannymanny said:
Yeah, and still not available on streaming services (though I'm not sure if that's just a demand issue).
You can find clips on youtube, including the first four episodes. Just watch them and and you'll be 1000% convinced that the league put the screws to ESPN to kill it after its first season.
 

dcmissle

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Yeah, Tags said the series was an inaccurate depiction of the NFL. Subsequent events confirmed that he had a point -- playmakers underplayed the level of dysfunction and craziness.
 

dcmissle

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No.  I think the post-hearing briefs may be due tomorrow.  It should be a while yet.
 

Saints Rest

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joe dokes said:
 
 
Read literally, I agree with the bolded. I have little doubt that Brady made it very clear he wanted the balls at 12.5 and to be deflated if they weren't.  But that's not an allegation of rule -breaking -- deflating below 12.5 and after the ref-inspection.  The problem is that the definition of the crime has been lost in the sloppiness. laziness or vindictiveness of the NFL office and its media handmaidens.  Much like "any videotaping at all" became the Spygate crime, "any deflation at all" has become this one.  I also think Brady fully copped to Wells and Goodell that he made it well-known to the equipment guys how he liked the balls.
 
Is there any chance -- i.e. that it would fit the actual facts -- that the deflation was done NOT to get below 12.5 post-inspection, but to get them DOWN to 12.5 post-inspection?

Consider Brady's alleged anger over the Jets game and the alleged 16.0 inflation.  Perhaps he told the Twins "Make sure to measure again AFTER the refs get them and make sure they are at 12.5."  Add a little sloppiness/hurried-ness in the bathroom break "adjustment" to the inherent Gas Law effects and you end up with this whole mess.  Brady could feel (allegedly) completely correct in saying that he did not ask for the balls to be deflated below 12.5.  But he also would know (and hence the flurry of texts) that he had asked the guys to break one part of the rule (the balls are sacrosanct once given to the refs) in order to make sure the balls were as he liked them (i.e. so as to avoid a repeat of the 16.0 Jets situation).
 

snowmanny

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Is there an NFL brief? Who does that? Goodell to himself?

Edit: I mean, the appeal is of his decision so who else would defend it?
 

TomTerrific

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What's the time limit on how soon Brady needs to file a federal appeal after Goodell's ruling comes down?

I thought it had been mentioned earlier but I can't seem to find it.
 

PseuFighter

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I think there's no set timeline, but not before July 4th (which seems academic at this point).
 
I also don't think there's a requirement on how soon he has to reply.
 
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Not that your hypothetical is necessarily saying this, but if brady asked them to do ANYTHING to the balls post-inspection he deserves the trouble he's seen. I don't believe he did.
 

Bleedred

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I did in fact respond to my friend's thoughts on deflategate, and thought I'd share his response back (I had asked him about his impressions of spygate too, but he didn't quite get into the details):
 
"You make a good argument for the texts not being conclusive. Fair enough. But the balls were under inflated. Maybe it was accidental that they were underinflated, and had been intended to be 12.5 instead of 11ish. But it's possible to be a stickler for the rules when doing so favors you and a rule-skirter when it doesn't. In fact, that's probably the norm. Moreover, somebody needs to kick Robert Kraft in the nuts. 
 
And you're also probably right that Belichick being (seen as) an a$$ leaves people overestimating his nefarious conduct in relation to his peers. 
 
And I should confess that my contempt for him and for "the Patriot Way" didn't really begin until Scott Pioli came to Kansas City and proved to be not only a poor judge of talent, but a smug jerk who made the lives of lifelong workers at Arrowhead a nightmare. It's no coincidence that when he joined Demitroff in Atlanta, the team took a major dive (in part because he imported his third-rate talent from Kansas City to play with the Falcons). He's one of many many people Tom Brady has made incredibly wealthy.
 
Yes, of course, everyone is jealous. We all enjoyed Boston when it was a city of lovable losers (except the Celtics), and the City's Football and Baseball run in the last 15 years has been America's nightmare for about the last ten or so. Yes, yes we are jealous. This jealousy is compounded by the fact that, while it's completely natural that you in Boston would hear about Boston sports day in and day out, we in the hinterland are subjected to endless hours about Boston and New York on ESPN and Fox Sports all year long as well, no matter how bad the teams are (Jesus, why must I know every move the Jets make when they've done absolutely nothing of note in the NFL since 1969?). We all understand ratings and market size, but for godssake, spread the love.
 
And as for Spygate, my understanding of it is that the S.O.B. whose job it was to violate rules and record practices with the Patriots sought to use that against them when he went to the Jets. No honor among thieves. A pox on both their houses. But again, they win because they have Tom Brady. And when he's gone, the laws of probability suggest that it will be a while before they approach dynasty status again, with our without Belichick. And we're all looking forward to that retirement. And we all hope they don't stumble on to the next Tom Brady for at least a decade.
 
The Chiefs could be a good team this year. Alex Smith isn't good enough to win a Super Bowl, though, without a lot of luck."
 

Dahabenzapple2

Mr. McGuire / Axl's Counter
SoSH Member
Jun 20, 2011
8,926
Wayne, NJ
I guy who I thought was smart got Spy Gate totally wrong when I asked him about it yesterday.

Sending signals, taping practices, etc. No fucking clue

The guy then tells me The Fat Fuck is the best!!! He even denies Francesa has a resentment with Belichick !!!!
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,214
Has anyone seen the opening scene of the pilot episode of  Mr. Robot?  Its actually a pretty good show aside from one disappointing reference to a "counterfeit hero".  
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,472
Somewhere
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Has anyone seen the opening scene of the pilot episode of  Mr. Robot?  Its actually a pretty good show aside from one disappointing reference to a "counterfeit hero".  
 
Anyone conflating heroism with professional achievement is an idiot.