2015 Masters Thread (Tiger's playing)
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I wasn't saying it was better or more dominant than those. In fact no one was, you brought those up. I'm saying that "a nice win by a young guy" is not at all close to describing what this was.WayBackVazquez said:
Honestly going wire to wire for the first time in 39 years as the second youngest winner all time is the most impressive thing to me about all this. He absolutely dominated this weekend from a consistency standpoint.
Who came close last year and has taken the further step.WayBackVazquez said:
I totally get the disappointment over the lack of riveting drama. What I am sick of is ESPN in particular being cocaine addicted to Tiger because he is so polarizing and makes their hunt for ratings so much easier.
There are some amazing talents in this beautiful game. I'd like it if they were celebrated, even if it takes a little more work.
WBV is right. Spieth was great this week but the course played much easier than normal. Tiger in 97 was much more dominant.
Yeah, I'll repeat it. It's a nice win, by a young guy, but is nowhere near is impressive, dominant, or momentous as Tiger or Rory's first major.The Four Peters said:
Yes Tiger's win was absolutely more dominant. So was Rory's at Congressional for sure.RedOctober3829 said:
This is still an impressive accomplishment too. One of the more impressive Masters victories in recent memory. It can be both of those things.
Rose better get sole second place.
It didn't just play easy for him. It played easy for everyone and he led wire to wire. I don't know where it stands historically, but it's incredibly impressive.RedOctober3829 said:
When Tiger shot this score at a slightly younger age, he won by 12 strokes. There were ELEVEN players closer than that to Spieth. That's nowhere near in my book.twibnotes said:
Which also means there was a lot more pressure on Jordan to actually perform.WayBackVazquez said:
This is one of the most impressive major wins of all time against a stacked field of major winners. Not sure why some are trying so hard to piss all over this accomplishment.
So the closer the margin, the more impressive it is. I think I'm starting to get it.LogansDad said:
NFL playoffs > NCAA final four > Masters, shamelessly rooting for your favorites, or pushing your preferred narratives, and few if any call you on it. Messy divorce, but nobody pays much attention.
Some times you just have to tip your cap.
Some times you just have to tip your cap.
twibnotes said:
It's like a Drew Brees yardage record.
bball831 said:
He got to watch the Final Four and the Masters in the last 10 or so days?
Yeah man, home runs count the same in Colorado as San Francisco, and a win's a win in the 100-meter. But nobody's confusing Dante Bichette with Barry Bonds, and you don't get a world record when there's a 5m/s tailwind.twibnotes said:
If you're suggesting they're 8 shots better, you're insane. And you'd better tell everyone here who has just expressed the idea that Jack Nicklaus was better than Tiger that they're way off because the quality of golf in the 60s was so much worse than the 2000s.twibnotes said:
Not to mention than dominant means dominant.
You didn't just say spieth's accomplishment was fell behind those of Mcilroy and woods. You said it wasn't comparable..."nowhere near."WayBackVazquez said:
Kid's 21 and tied the course record. He led wire to wire. The excitement is justified.
If buchholz throws a no hitter tonight, no one in the game thread is going to start talking about how Nolan Ryan threw way more no hitters.
Deathofthebambino said:
That's what I said yesterday after the round, and sure enough, he went out and shot 70 again today, and while Rose and Phil put together nice rounds, 65 or 66 wasn't in the cards for them, and nobody else had a realistic shot without a collapse from Spieth. The course was just too easy, and when you combine that with the control he has over his game with his insanely good putter, he's going to make enough birdies to wipe out the mistakes.
I certainly agree that it's not as impressive as Tiger's win or Rory's, but I'll tell you what is impressive. The last 6 months that this kid has put together, including his wins overseas. He's finishing 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st in the last four tournaments. Those are Tiger like stretches of golf from back in the day. I think beating this field by 4 shots on a course that was giving up birdies is pretty damn impressive, as is holding a lead for four days at the age of 21. You can't really downplay this win, and I'm really looking forward to what he does going forward. He's still lined up to play a ton of events this year, and he's now on pace to put up some pretty crazy numbers as far as the Tour goes.
Anyway, like Zomp said, I really fucking want to play 18 right now, and it being 65 degrees and beautiful today for the first time in about 7 months around here is making it so, so much worse.
It is nowhere near. He won by four strokes. mcIlroy won the U.S. open by eight, Tiger won the Masters by 12. You're now attempting to make moronic assertions that it may be different because golfers now are much better than they were in 1997. Putting aside the fact that one of the guys who was within 4 of Spieth is 44 years old, and a 58 year-old just finished the tournament at -2. The course played easy. When courses play easier than they ever have, you often get tournament records.twibnotes said:
It's near the same accomplishment with respect to age. Anything else, and you're just grasping wildly at straws.
The allegations from his college days were very similar to what is said about Patrick Reed's college days today.Al Zarilla said:
Who knows the truth. But it was out there in the early 70s.
Couple things in my opinion:
1. There five tournaments a year where the term "nice win" does not apply. This is one. Actually, that's not imho, I do t think that's arguable.
2. It was an extremely impressive victory, especially considering his age, his demons from last year, his comparative lack of course knowledge and experience and the composure he showed when it looked like he might blow up a couple times.
3. Leading wire to wire is dominant, whether you win by a stroke or by ten. Playing eight straight 9s under par at Augusta is dominant. I don't care the conditions. He's the only person to ever do it.
4. It was not dominant in context of history of the game compared to certain other performances. Im too young to remember Tiger in 97, but Rory was on cruise control in the Open that year and his number could have been bigger. Historically dominant performances have you changing the channel now and then coming back for a check in. This one always had that moment it was getting interesting or the underlying possibility it was about to get really interesting.
All that being said, a handful of guys could have easily caught him with some better front 9s over the week (Rose, Rory) or making putts and avoiding stupid mistakes (Mick).
Biggest factor was what Faldo kept mentioning (harping on?) - when he missed he missed in the right place. He didn't make himself have to take chances. And his putter was the best all week.
1. There five tournaments a year where the term "nice win" does not apply. This is one. Actually, that's not imho, I do t think that's arguable.
2. It was an extremely impressive victory, especially considering his age, his demons from last year, his comparative lack of course knowledge and experience and the composure he showed when it looked like he might blow up a couple times.
3. Leading wire to wire is dominant, whether you win by a stroke or by ten. Playing eight straight 9s under par at Augusta is dominant. I don't care the conditions. He's the only person to ever do it.
4. It was not dominant in context of history of the game compared to certain other performances. Im too young to remember Tiger in 97, but Rory was on cruise control in the Open that year and his number could have been bigger. Historically dominant performances have you changing the channel now and then coming back for a check in. This one always had that moment it was getting interesting or the underlying possibility it was about to get really interesting.
All that being said, a handful of guys could have easily caught him with some better front 9s over the week (Rose, Rory) or making putts and avoiding stupid mistakes (Mick).
Biggest factor was what Faldo kept mentioning (harping on?) - when he missed he missed in the right place. He didn't make himself have to take chances. And his putter was the best all week.
Yeah at this point I don't even know what people are arguing. How good the win was? I think, given his age, its a top 10 major performance of the past 50 years. To me, that's more than a nice win.
I remember when Trevor Immelmann won in 2008 it was the first wire-to-wire victory since 1976. Now that Spieth has done it, I guess we don't count that because he was tied for the lead at the end of the first round. It's literally trivia.
Also whats amazing to me, and I think PP alluded to it just now, is Spieth's game. He's long, but no more so than the average upper echelon player. His short game is good, but again its nothing too impressive. His ball striking is good but its not on the level of an Adam Scott or Rory. He's just a complete package and someone who has the game where its most important, between the ears. THAT, IMO, is his most impressive feature.
If you really went and looked at them, I wonder whether you'd think so. Forget all the ones you can think of your head, like Tiger's first, last, Rory's first, Jack's last...there are going to be so many 1978 Masters' type tourneys that will change your mind. And lord, the 2000 US Open.Zomp said:
Hard to figure how anyone could think that the scoring out there across the board wasn't heavily influenced by the soft conditions. The greens didn't chew up players the way they do most years with those signature "omg please stop" moments as balls just keep trickling forever. Spieth outplayed the best in the world and is a deserving champ but I think it's a little weird to be putting too much stock into his final scoring total due to the conditions. Yea, he broke some records but he did it with the course on easy mode.
By the way, Barnwell wrote a column analyzing relative dominance of major winners' victories after Rory's win a few years ago.
http://grantland.com/features/relative-dominance/
Someone else should feel free to calculate Jordan's z-score this week, but I feel pretty confident it won't crack that top 20.
http://grantland.com/features/relative-dominance/
Someone else should feel free to calculate Jordan's z-score this week, but I feel pretty confident it won't crack that top 20.