Jump to content


Yo! You're not logged in. Why am I seeing this ad?

Photo

Jared Remy Arrested for Murder


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
224 replies to this topic

#101 Andrew


  • broke his neck in costa rica


  • 9591 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:19 PM

I agree with JohntheBaptist.

 

And this thread is an embarrassment. Can we take it off the mainboard at least?



#102 mauidano


  • Mai Tais for everyone!


  • 13426 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:21 PM

 

Typically, the most dangerous time for a person in a DV situation is when they try to leave.  Lots of people stay so they can stay alive - or keep their kids alive.

There are resources out there and protection if a woman chooses.  This is 2013.  She had family and friends.  This wasn't the first time.  And as recently as a couple days ago.  She had a child.  Is that not motivation enough?  Yes, fear is a preventive factor.  But she had choices.  I am not ignorant here.  DV touches a lot of our lives.  It happened to my wife from an ex husband.  It's a choice between life and death.  Horribly sad for all in their circle of family and friends.  A LOT of questions they are all asking of themselves too.



#103 pokey_reese


  • SoSH Member


  • 5058 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:24 PM

What a tragedy.  Hard to believe that we live in a world where people like Jared Remy are just walking around, waiting to blow up and kill someone, and where repeat domestic abusers are only ever stopped after they get to that point.  That poor little girl.  What are the stats on a happy life for a child whose mother was killed by his/her father?



#104 joe dokes

  • 3039 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:35 PM

I agree with JohntheBaptist.

 

And this thread is an embarrassment. Can we take it off the mainboard at least?

 

Whether this should be here is above my paygrade. But while I disagree with some stuff said, and think that some stuff is the product of mis- or lack of understanding of some complicated issues, I think most here have stayed within the bounds of civilized discussion. Certainly not an embarrassment. (yet?)



#105 JayMags71


  • SoSH Member


  • 5538 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:44 PM

ku-xlarge.jpg
 
Sure looks like he's still juicing.

Hell, he looks like he just discovered "walking upright" last week.

I uss going to post a pic of one if the chimps from "Madagascar", but I don't think they deserve to be lumped in with this monster.

#106 luckysox


  • Eeyore


  • 3261 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:46 PM

PhyVio.jpg

 

This is why victims stay with their abusers.

 

The other "cycle" that is well known to folks who work within the DV community is: Abusive Incident -> Honey Moon/Making Up -> Calm -> Tension, rinse and repeat. It almost always works like this. It's a really difficult cycle to break, and the above "wheel" that depicts ways that abusers gain power and control shows you why.  Many victims are so isolated from friends and family, have been so brainwashed into thinking that the entire thing is their fault, are so held captive by the kids they have with the abusers, and are so cut off from any financial means to "escape" that they just continue on in that cycle, hoping against hope that "this time" the abuser really will stop. And in more cases than most of us would ever be able to guess, the last "abusive incident" is death of the victim at the hands of the abuser. 



#107 Smiling Joe Hesketh


  • now batting steve sal hiney. the leftfielder, hiney


  • 25528 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:47 PM

Chad Finn says Eck will be in the booth through the end of next week.



#108 Kilgore A. Trout


  • My Little Pony Tale


  • 13649 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:50 PM

Chad Finn says Eck will be in the booth through the end of next week.

I trust that they'll have the good sense not to talk about the incident in any detail on the air.  Its the Fox and ESPN broadcasters I worry about this weekend.



#109 SeanBerry


  • poopdragon


  • 3226 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:54 PM

You are "worried" about them talking about this on the air? Who gives a shit.  What are you worried about? Someone finding out? The game of baseball being tainted? Besides, it's a stupid thing to "worry" about. The national telecasts are the most "safe" sports you can watch. They won't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

 

The end of next week? I don't know how that's going to work. I think Jerry needs to walk away for a while (ever?). He's 60 and this is a pretty huge deal that affects not only his son but his granddaughter. I guess we're going to find out how much Jerry Remy likes describing baseball games on TV.



#110 pdaj

  • 2404 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:55 PM

Yea it's a tough thing to talk about, but that's always my first reaction too.

 

This guy has been convicted of beating up women three separate times. It's amazing that somebody could stay with him.

 

A lot of time it's out of fear. When my cousin finally mustered up the courage to leave her husband, he killed her and then killed himself a day or two later in prison.

 

"Leave him, and we can keep you safe" is easier said than done when you're dealing with a crazy fuck.



#111 YTF

  • 3651 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:57 PM

It's a fuckin' shame any way you look at it. One life ended, multiple lives destroyed. If this shakes out the way it looks like it will, a child will grow up knowing that her father murdered her mother. She'll never have what so many of us never gave a second thought about as we grew up. Then again perhaps she'll be blessed with guardians who will raise her with what she might not have known or felt otherwise. No way to know that for sure and def not suggesting she would be better off with her mom dead and father in prison, just hoping that whoever is charged with the custody of this child gives her the very best of themselves.



#112 Smiling Joe Hesketh


  • now batting steve sal hiney. the leftfielder, hiney


  • 25528 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:58 PM

You are "worried" about them talking about this on the air? Who gives a shit.  What are you worried about? Someone finding out? The game of baseball being tainted? Besides, it's a stupid thing to "worry" about. The national telecasts are the most "safe" sports you can watch. They won't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

 

The end of next week? I don't know how that's going to work. I think Jerry needs to walk away for a while (ever?). He's 60 and this is a pretty huge deal that affects not only his son but his granddaughter. I guess we're going to find out how much Jerry Remy likes describing baseball games on TV.

 

What else does he have? His kids are walking disasters and now his family is facing a terrible situation. Baseball work might be the only real pleasure he'll have for himself right now.



#113 Foulkey Reese


  • foulkiavelli


  • 20096 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:00 PM

Deadspin, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

http://deadspin.com/...dium=socialflow

 

 

 

I also want to implicate Windsor Village for turning a blind eye and allowing a convicted felon to reside on their property despite their community rules. Jared's name is not on the lease (his brother's is), but they are very much aware that he resides there and they allow it because the Remy name entitles him to anything in this town. They let families with young children move in around him despite his violent criminal history. The e-mail they just released "assured" us "that at no point were any residents in danger." Jen was a resident. Was she not in danger? Were not the neighbors who tried desperately to stop him?

Jen wanted to be a teacher and had just started classes at Framingham State. She adored her daughter and wanted to provide for her independent of the Remys. I'm devastated she'll never know the better life she was just beginning to build for herself

 

 

 

 

After Jared Remy was arrested Tuesday and charged with beating his girlfriend, his mother contacted the girlfriend and begged her not to extend the emergency temporary restraining order she had been granted because it would "ruin his life," a neighbor who asked to remain anonymous told us.

Remy, the son of former Red Sox player and current announcer Jerry Remy, is accused of murdering his girlfriend, Jennifer Martel, last night by stabbing her repeatedly at the home they shared with their 4-year-old daughter in Waltham, Mass.

 


Edited by Foulkey Reese, 16 August 2013 - 02:07 PM.


#114 Red(s)HawksFan


  • SoSH Member


  • 5011 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:02 PM

I trust that they'll have the good sense not to talk about the incident in any detail on the air.  Its the Fox and ESPN broadcasters I worry about this weekend.

 

The national broadcasters would have absolutely zero interest or reason to bring it up.  Few people outside of the NESN viewing area know who Jerry Remy is, let alone would give two shits about his son being a murdering cockroach.

 

I'd frankly be shocked if this story warranted a single mention on Sportscenter or the like.  If it was a player or a broadcaster, that's one thing, but a relative/offspring of a player/broadcaster...not even going to make a ripple in the national news pond.



#115 MentalDisabldLst


  • Prefers spit over lube


  • 13536 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:03 PM

The end of next week? I don't know how that's going to work. I think Jerry needs to walk away for a while (ever?). He's 60 and this is a pretty huge deal that affects not only his son but his granddaughter. I guess we're going to find out how much Jerry Remy likes describing baseball games on TV.

 

That point of view makes no sense to me.  Baseball might be the only thing he can get real enjoyment and satisfaction out of right now.  Aside from grieving for his son or attending to his defense, both of which would be temporary, I don't see any reason why Jerry Remy would choose to retire to a life of contemplating the awful things his children have done, rather than preserving the happy distraction he currently has from that contemplation.

 

edit: hat tip to SJH


Edited by MentalDisabldLst, 16 August 2013 - 02:04 PM.


#116 pdaj

  • 2404 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:06 PM

 

The national broadcasters would have absolutely zero interest or reason to bring it up.  Few people outside of the NESN viewing area know who Jerry Remy is, let alone would give two shits about his son being a murdering cockroach.

 

I'd frankly be shocked if this story warranted a single mention on Sportscenter or the like.  If it was a player or a broadcaster, that's one thing, but a relative/offspring of a player/broadcaster...not even going to make a ripple in the national news pond.

 

I hope hope/suspect that you're right; but FWIW, the story is on the "front page" on ESPN.com right now. I think, at worst, SC could hit on it quickly. 



#117 mabrowndog


  • Ask me about total zone...or paint


  • 38294 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:11 PM

I can see the team and NESN issuing a brief statement of sorts. Something like "Jerry Remy will be taking an indefinite leave of absence from his Red Sox duties. Our thoughts are with him and his family at this difficult time." And nothing more than that. And really, that's all that's needed. No matter how skilled a PR person is, there's no way to actually mention the situation, or even to refer to it as a "personal matter" or "family matter", without it coming across in a warped or flippant context.

 

As for national outlets covering Red Sox games, this would be a really awkward thing for them to bring up during a broadcast. It doesn't involve any players, coaches or baseball operations staff, and it has no bearing on game action on the field whatsoever. 



#118 MentalDisabldLst


  • Prefers spit over lube


  • 13536 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:11 PM

I'd frankly be shocked if this story warranted a single mention on Sportscenter or the like.  If it was a player or a broadcaster, that's one thing, but a relative/offspring of a player/broadcaster...not even going to make a ripple in the national news pond.

 

It's currently on the front page of ESPN.com, and that's with viewing the page from NYC, not the Boston area.

 

Other than the daughter, the people who are probably going to have the most horrific trauma from this are the neighbors who tried to stop him and were frightened off.  Really can't imagine being there and feeling powerless to stop it.



#119 trekfan55


  • SoSH Member


  • 5551 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:12 PM

You are "worried" about them talking about this on the air? Who gives a shit.  What are you worried about? Someone finding out? The game of baseball being tainted? Besides, it's a stupid thing to "worry" about. The national telecasts are the most "safe" sports you can watch. They won't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

 

The end of next week? I don't know how that's going to work. I think Jerry needs to walk away for a while (ever?). He's 60 and this is a pretty huge deal that affects not only his son but his granddaughter. I guess we're going to find out how much Jerry Remy likes describing baseball games on TV.

 

Only touching this point, we all know Eck does not like to travel so by the end of next week they would make some other announcement. 

 

Edit:  I stand corrected, it looks like Eck is going on the West Coast trip.


Edited by trekfan55, 16 August 2013 - 03:49 PM.


#120 SeanBerry


  • poopdragon


  • 3226 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:16 PM

 

That point of view makes no sense to me.  Baseball might be the only thing he can get real enjoyment and satisfaction out of right now.  Aside from grieving for his son or attending to his defense, both of which would be temporary, I don't see any reason why Jerry Remy would choose to retire to a life of contemplating the awful things his children have done, rather than preserving the happy distraction he currently has from that contemplation.

 

 

 

The point of view that a 60 year old man who just had his son murder the mother of his grandchildren may want to retire from a job in the public eye makes "zero sense to you". 

 

That makes zero sense to you? So that makes as much sense as me saying "Cookie Crisp stole the Jumbo Salami Hero" in this thread. Something totally nonsensical, like that?

 

Also, you don't see "any reason" Jerry Remy would choose to retire? None. 

 

Your post is quite amazing. 



#121 Carmen Fanzone


  • Monbo's BFF


  • 5764 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:24 PM

 

The point of view that a 60 year old man who just had his son murder the mother of his grandchildren may want to retire from a job in the public eye makes "zero sense to you". 

 

That makes zero sense to you? 

 

Are you really suggesting that anyone who is, by your definition, "in the public eye" should quit their job forever if one of their kids is charged with a heinous crime?

 

Dennis Drinkwater would be well-advised to walk away from Giant Glass?

Bob, the furniture guy, should sell the stores and head for Aruba?

Company president Joe Bizexec needs to step down and call it quits?

 

 

Please, let's get this off the main board and over in V&N where it belongs.



#122 SeanBerry


  • poopdragon


  • 3226 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:28 PM

When did I say or suggest "anyone" in the public eye should quit their job forever if their kids were charged with a heinous crime?

 

Re-read the exact quote you put in your last post and get back to me. 



#123 LeoCarrillo


  • Do his bits at your peril.


  • 5332 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:55 PM

Not trying to be confrontational, but I don't get the "this thread is an embarrassment" moralizing. It's an exchange of viewpoints over a disturbing event, with a reasonable likelihood of being enlightening to some readers, and in which the posters have yet to break up the room with some tasteless joke.

 

A couple people wondered if Remy was a shitty parent because his kids are wayward and worse. Others have replied otherwise. How is this thread such a disgrace, again?



#124 Smiling Joe Hesketh


  • now batting steve sal hiney. the leftfielder, hiney


  • 25528 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:56 PM

Exactly. This is a message board, not any type of moral authority. We're here to talk about stuff. This is worthy of the main board and the constant tut-tutting about the subject is annoying.

 

It's staying here.



#125 amh03


  • Tippi Hedren


  • 4371 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:01 PM

Please, let's get this off the main board and over in V&N where it belongs.


I agree...this has nothing to do with baseball. It's tragic for all involved, and certainly seems like there's aspects of the case worthy of discussion, but I don't think it qualifies to the standards of the main board.

#126 Dogman2


  • Yukon Cornelius


  • 11104 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:05 PM

jerry_remy.jpg

 

 

 

Now is does have something to do with baseball.



#127 Smiling Joe Hesketh


  • now batting steve sal hiney. the leftfielder, hiney


  • 25528 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:09 PM

I agree...this has nothing to do with baseball. It's tragic for all involved, and certainly seems like there's aspects of the case worthy of discussion, but I don't think it qualifies to the standards of the main board.

 

This has nothing to do with baseball?

 

The son of a current Red Sox broadcaster, the son who happens to be a former employee of the team, has apparently committed a heinous murder and it's not a baseball topic? Really?

 

This fits the standard of the Main Board perfectly well. It's staying guys, don't continually bring up that point, OK? The dopes have talked about it, it's staying here. All meta commentary about this topic can be taken to Backwash, there's already a thread started there on this.



#128 SumnerH


  • Malt Liquor Picker


  • 14926 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:13 PM

Also, posts that just say "+1" or "me too" add nothing (not just in this topic).  If you want to get a head count, start a poll.  



#129 jose melendez


  • Earl of Acie


  • 12848 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:14 PM

Again, if we talk about how much Jared Remy looks like Bane we can move it to Omar is Dead.



#130 Dogman2


  • Yukon Cornelius


  • 11104 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:15 PM

SPOILER THAT SHIT MAN


Edited by Dogman2, 16 August 2013 - 03:20 PM.


#131 amh03


  • Tippi Hedren


  • 4371 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:22 PM

This has nothing to do with baseball?
 
The son of a current Red Sox broadcaster, the son who happens to be a former employee of the team, has apparently committed a heinous murder and it's not a baseball topic? Really?
 
This fits the standard of the Main Board perfectly well. It's staying guys, don't continually bring up that point, OK? The dopes have talked about it, it's staying here. All meta commentary about this topic can be taken to Backwash, there's already a thread started there on this.

I'm going to respond to your quoting my perspective, SJH...if this is the case, then why weren't threads about Remy - the actual employee of the team - and his fight against cancer on the main board? The one that was started on the main board got locked down.

I can see you've made up your minds, but I don't see why you'd try to censor someone's honest disagreement with the thread's placement. In my, and apparently other members' opinions, this is not a baseball topic.

Edited by amh03, 16 August 2013 - 03:23 PM.


#132 Smiling Joe Hesketh


  • now batting steve sal hiney. the leftfielder, hiney


  • 25528 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:25 PM

I'm going to respond to your quoting my perspective, SJH...if this is the case, then why weren't threads about Remy - the former employee of the team - and his fight against cancer on the main board? The one that was started on the main board got locked down.

I can see you've made up your minds, but I don't see why you'd try to censor someone's honest disagreement with the thread's placement. In my, and apparently other members' opinions, this is not a baseball topic.

 

Censoring it? I must disagree. We're not censoring it, which is why I pointed to another place on the board for you to express your opinion on the topic.

 

But rehashing the same opinion again when it's been made clear that the decision has been already made...not sure how that adds to the quality of the Main Board you want to keep sacrosanct.

 

I mean, we've decided it's Main Board worthy. Disagreements can be taken to Backwash or PM. Thx.



#133 joe dokes

  • 3039 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:27 PM

Now is does have something to do with baseball.

 

 


Also in baseball-ness, one of Remy's sons was drafted in the 58th round or somesuch. Can't find if it was this one or not.


Edited by joe dokes, 16 August 2013 - 03:28 PM.


#134 strek1


  • SoSH Member


  • 6701 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:32 PM

I gotta say it feels like you are all making far too much of Jerry's role as the parent in all this.  Jared is the one who murdered someone, and he has been an adult for quite some time now.  If this was one of the other tragic incidents where a man in his mid thirties killed his girlfriend, yet with a father who wasn't on TV 160+ nights a year, how many of you would even mention the responsibility of the guy's parents?

 

 

Here's an idea, a young woman has just been murdered, ending her life and wrecking the lives of who knows how many other people. So, let's -

 

1. Discuss the merits of Jerry Remy as a father;

 

2. Discuss his other children, who several have decided are awful;

 

3. Discuss whether his inability to escape his addiction to nicotine and other chemicals is a sign of weakness, laying responsibility for his lung cancer at his feet; and

 

4. Discuss whether his days as a commentator, perhaps one of the few bright spots in his life, are finished.

 

Or, we could discuss this - whether this thread should even exist.  The topic is undeniably "interesting", but it is clearly tragic and tailor made for regrettable posts.

 

Kilgore & fineyoungarm's posts are the most sensible added to this thread and they can't be repeated enough.     If anyone has had a child who has had a substance abuse problem they know how this addiction can change people's personalities.  I have no knowledge of what this man was like before but certainly am aware that steroids is no different than any other addiction or chemical problem in the ability to alter behavior.  Jerry & his wife are suffering very much right now and this a huge tragedy for all involved, particularly the young child.   It's become the new "National Passtime" to kick people while their down on message boards so many comments doesn't surprise me. But a bit of sympathy may be a good prescription here IMO.



#135 fineyoungarm


  • tweets about his subwoofer!


  • 3802 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:32 PM

 

The national broadcasters would have absolutely zero interest or reason to bring it up.  Few people outside of the NESN viewing area know who Jerry Remy is, let alone would give two shits about his son being a murdering cockroach.

 

I'd frankly be shocked if this story warranted a single mention on Sportscenter or the like.  If it was a player or a broadcaster, that's one thing, but a relative/offspring of a player/broadcaster...not even going to make a ripple in the national news pond.

 

It's already on the ESPN and Huffington Post sites.  And not buried.  24/7 news leaves little room for filtering (or privacy).


Edited by fineyoungarm, 16 August 2013 - 03:33 PM.


#136 OilCanShotTupac


  • Not Clowning Around


  • 8323 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:52 PM


I hope that the attention that this receives will be directed toward the serious problem of domestic violence and not toward armchair psychoanalysis. Sadly, this story is one that I have heard too many times before: guy gets violent, gets released, escalates. The degree to which our legal system routinely fails victims of domestic violence is absolutely appalling.

 

I have a good friend who was in the Manhattan DA's office, and was doing very well there as a prosecutor.

 

Until he got put onto the domestic violence unit.

 

He told me gutwrenching stories about how he would meet with these women who had been beaten within an inch of their lives, he would try to help them by getting them in touch with counseling, support services, social workers, etc., and he would put together the cases against their abusers.

 

Again and again and again, the women would ultimately refuse to cooperate with the investigation or testify, saying either that "he loves me, he wants me back, we're going to give it another chance," or the women were terrified and refused to cooperate for fear of further abuse.  Of course, women in the former category were often back in the DA's office with fresh injuries from another round of abuse shortly thereafter.

 

This happened so many times - I think the percentage of battered women who cooperated with the prosecutors was maybe 20%, if that -  that he became disillusioned and quit the DA's office, and is now a bank regulator.  This was in the late 90's.

 

Please understand that I AM NOT trying to blame the victims here. 

 

In the mid '00s, I was in law school.  A Supreme Court case, Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36, was decided in 2004.  Quoting the Wikipedia page for Crawford:

 

 

Crawford reformulated the standard for determining when the admission of hearsay statements in criminal cases is permitted under the Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment.  The Court held that cross-examination is required to admit prior testimonial statements of witnesses that have since become unavailable. . . . Crawford, and the decisions following it, also radically changed the handling of domestic violence cases by curtailing evidence-based prosecution, a common practice allowing the accused to be prosecuted without the participation of their accusers in the criminal court process. Evidence-based prosecution relies heavily on admission of statements under hearsay exceptions to reproduce the evidentiary effect of a victim testifying in court. The Crawford Court's decision renders most of these statements inadmissible without the accuser coming to court and testifying against the person he is accusing.

 

After Crawford, it became much, much harder to convict an abuser in a DV case without the victim taking the stand and allowing herself to be cross-examined by his attorney which, as discussed above, most victims did not want to do.

 

Crawford was a hot issue at the time.  The law review of my law school put together a symposium on Crawford, and I worked on the issue of the law review that printed all of the articles from the symposium, so I learned a lot about it.  Much of the symposium was dedicated to exploring this very issue - the handling of DV cases post-Crawford.  There has been a small cottage industry of law professors cranking out articles on it since '04.   As I understand it, reluctance to testify against your abuser, and even an identification with the abuser, is itself a common result or outcome of abuse, so it's not necessarily realistic to expect that someone who has been badly beaten and threatened will testify against her abuser.

 

I understand where you're coming from as a mental health professional - it must be heartbreaking to see this happen again and again.  As an attorney, I understand why allowing the accused to confront his accuser in court is a constitutional right - I don't think any of us would want to stand trial for a crime without the opportunity to poke holes in the story of the person accusing us.  At the same time, the practical implications in this context are very, very troubling.

 

All of this is by way of saying that there are limits as to what the legal system can do (as currently set up, at least).  I agree it is appalling.  I don't know how to fix it.

 

edit: luckysox spoke to the bolded better than I could upthread.


Edited by OilCanShotTupac, 16 August 2013 - 04:04 PM.


#137 Myt1


  • thinks tim thomas is a dick-fil-a


  • 19511 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:00 PM

 

Correlation does not imply causation. As someone on this board, I'd think that they'd be familiar with the term and it's meaning.

Yeah, so, did you miss this part of his post?

 

"We certainly don't know if he's a bad parent, either, but something seems off when he's 3-for-3 in the "shitty kids" column."



#138 Myt1


  • thinks tim thomas is a dick-fil-a


  • 19511 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:08 PM

There are resources out there and protection if a woman chooses.  This is 2013.  She had family and friends.  This wasn't the first time.  And as recently as a couple days ago.  She had a child.  Is that not motivation enough?  Yes, fear is a preventive factor.  But she had choices.  I am not ignorant here.  DV touches a lot of our lives.  It happened to my wife from an ex husband.  It's a choice between life and death.  Horribly sad for all in their circle of family and friends.  A LOT of questions they are all asking of themselves too.

 

The resources and protection are not what you seem to think they are.  It's far from a simple choice between life and death.



#139 MoVaughndotORG

  • 174 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

 


Also in baseball-ness, one of Remy's sons was drafted in the 58th round or somesuch. Can't find if it was this one or not.

Jordan Remy was drafted by the Red Sox out of Weston HS in 1999 as a 2B in the 49th round.  

http://mlb.mlb.com/m...ame=Jordan Remy



#140 mauidano


  • Mai Tais for everyone!


  • 13426 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:32 PM

 

The resources and protection are not what you seem to think they are.  It's far from a simple choice between life and death.

Each situation is unique unto itself undoubtedly.  Many factors make it difficult for women to leave including familial pressure as apparently in this case on Wednesday from Remy's mother.  Cultural issues, even the psychological beat down of this.  But eventually it is a choice however difficult to stay or go.  Jen Martel endured this for seven years.  This is not the first time for her or Remy encountering the legal system with violence.  In her case, how did it last this long?  Again, each situation is unique.  You CAN get out.  You can save your life.  There ARE resources. There is a choice.  I am speaking from personal experience.  



#141 cherno

  • 4307 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:32 PM

 

Are you really suggesting that anyone who is, by your definition, "in the public eye" should quit their job forever if one of their kids is charged with a heinous crime?

 

Dennis Drinkwater would be well-advised to walk away from Giant Glass?

Bob, the furniture guy, should sell the stores and head for Aruba?

Company president Joe Bizexec needs to step down and call it quits?

 

 

Please, let's get this off the main board and over in V&N where it belongs.

 

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but the examples you give are not the same. 

 

In each of those examples, the people who you cite run their respective companies. I guess they would decide what's in their best interest & guage the public perception of them & their companies.

 

Jerry Remy is an employee of the Red Sox, and an important PR person at that. It makes a lot of sense to have Jerry remain out of the booth, probably for the remainder of the year, due to the negative press this will generate. Like it or not, the organization will be linked to this story.

 

In my opinion, we'll never see Jerry Remy do another game for the Sox. Not just because of this, but also because of health issues & his age. If I were him, I would walk away.



#142 Myt1


  • thinks tim thomas is a dick-fil-a


  • 19511 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:45 PM

Each situation is unique unto itself undoubtedly.  Many factors make it difficult for women to leave including familial pressure as apparently in this case on Wednesday from Remy's mother.  Cultural issues, even the psychological beat down of this.  But eventually it is a choice however difficult to stay or go.  Jen Martel endured this for seven years.  This is not the first time for her or Remy encountering the legal system with violence.  In her case, how did it last this long?  Again, each situation is unique.  You CAN get out.  You can save your life.  There ARE resources. There is a choice.  I am speaking from personal experience.  


You're ignoring the fact that exercising the choice to go or access the resources you are talking about is not infrequently followed by a more vicious attack or a killing.

I'm not going to continue a back and forth with you because given your platitudes, I don't think you're equipped to discuss the issue. But when I go out to eat, I have a choice of whether to order chicken or steak. We're talking about a subject in which, regardless of the order I put in, the chicken might just decide to jump on my plate anyway.

And if it did, you'd post about questioning my intelligence.

#143 Rovin Romine

  • 2951 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:08 PM

 

I have a good friend who was in the Manhattan DA's office, and was doing very well there as a prosecutor.

 

Until he got put onto the domestic violence unit.

 

He told me gutwrenching stories about how he would meet with these women who had been beaten within an inch of their lives, he would try to help them by getting them in touch with counseling, support services, social workers, etc., and he would put together the cases against their abusers.

 

Again and again and again, the women would ultimately refuse to cooperate with the investigation or testify, saying either that "he loves me, he wants me back, we're going to give it another chance," or the women were terrified and refused to cooperate for fear of further abuse.  Of course, women in the former category were often back in the DA's office with fresh injuries from another round of abuse shortly thereafter.

 

This happened so many times - I think the percentage of battered women who cooperated with the prosecutors was maybe 20%, if that -  that he became disillusioned and quit the DA's office, and is now a bank regulator.  This was in the late 90's.

 

Please understand that I AM NOT trying to blame the victims here. 

 

In the mid '00s, I was in law school.  A Supreme Court case, Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36, was decided in 2004.  Quoting the Wikipedia page for Crawford:

 

 

After Crawford, it became much, much harder to convict an abuser in a DV case without the victim taking the stand and allowing herself to be cross-examined by his attorney which, as discussed above, most victims did not want to do.

 

Crawford was a hot issue at the time.  The law review of my law school put together a symposium on Crawford, and I worked on the issue of the law review that printed all of the articles from the symposium, so I learned a lot about it.  Much of the symposium was dedicated to exploring this very issue - the handling of DV cases post-Crawford.  There has been a small cottage industry of law professors cranking out articles on it since '04.   As I understand it, reluctance to testify against your abuser, and even an identification with the abuser, is itself a common result or outcome of abuse, so it's not necessarily realistic to expect that someone who has been badly beaten and threatened will testify against her abuser.

 

I understand where you're coming from as a mental health professional - it must be heartbreaking to see this happen again and again.  As an attorney, I understand why allowing the accused to confront his accuser in court is a constitutional right - I don't think any of us would want to stand trial for a crime without the opportunity to poke holes in the story of the person accusing us.  At the same time, the practical implications in this context are very, very troubling.

 

All of this is by way of saying that there are limits as to what the legal system can do (as currently set up, at least).  I agree it is appalling.  I don't know how to fix it.

 

edit: luckysox spoke to the bolded better than I could upthread.

 

It really comes down to paternalism in the end. 

 

I'm sorry for your friend's experience, which sounds depressing as hell.   However, the vast majority of DV victims are not murdered.  Many live with it.  Some can end the cycle and move on.  Sometimes ending these relationships takes help from their friends and family, sometime from the courts - but to really end DV, you can't just split people up, you have to make sure they don't abuse and/or accept abuse in the future. 

 

I understand that the state (or people in general) want to intervene in troubled relationships, and that's fine.  But the best way to intervene (IMOP) is financial support, education, and just functioning as a supportive society should.  Turning to judges to jail folk only interrupts the cycle - what's really important is that the cycle be broken.  Sometimes that involves getting both parties into therapy - few relationships start as "abusive" - both parties engage in some type of behavior that elicits and encourages abuse.  Please note I'm not blaming the victim (which is sometimes a man, either in hetero or homosexual relationships).  I'm just saying that there's a dynamic, and it's fruitful to look at it from both perspectives and to seek solutions at both ends.   Sometimes, of course, there is no clear abuser/abusee - it's just mutual or ebbs and flows or is a cycle of psychological/emotional violence (on either part) that gets physical sometimes.  In any event, I think friends and family are potentially much more powerful influences than a judge, and shame is far more powerful than the threat of 30 days in jail (assuming the abuser secretly thinks he's in the right.)

 

**

As far as moral responsibility goes for this case, it seems pretty safe that we can lay this one at Jared's feet alone.  Remy, unless he tortured the kid, shouldn't be brought into it at all. 

 

As to what made Jared this way - well, it's a more interesting question than who to blame.

 

Frankly I'm surprised no one (that I've seen) has made an overt, non-joking connection to steroid use.  I'd guess that has to be a factor in his behavior.  The guy is huge - and that stuff does not conveniently ignore the brain or the endocrine system. 

 

We can talk about misogynistic culture (which is I think a good issue to examine), but this guy tortured his body into some kind of odd thing.  Probably messed with his mind and emotions in some way.  



#144 Van Everyman


  • SoSH Member


  • 7344 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:12 PM

Again, if we talk about how much Jared Remy looks like Bane we can move it to Omar is Dead.

I think the problem here isn't that he looks like Bane.

I too would be surprised if Remy hung it up for a few reasons. First, baseball has absolutely been a source of comfort for him these last several years. He's said as much in his (very moving) interviews about his battles with cancer and depression. I think the Sox would have to ask him to go. And that brings me to point 2 which is that I don't think the team would do that. He's been too big of a part of the team's image for too long.

Unless there's some big reveal that he pressured the woman not to get a restraining order or used his name to somehow enable his son to be a danger to her (which sounds possible from what we're reading), he's staying.

#145 SMU_Sox


  • loves his fluffykins


  • 5094 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:24 PM

Can't you all see that both sides could be right?

 

Remy might want to retire to try and right his family even if they are adults. It's not like that doesn't happen.

 

OTOH baseball and being a broadcaster is important, personally, to Remy and he might find comfort in it now.

 

Sometimes there isn't 100% certainty in life and that's ok. There is a decent middle ground too. This has to be a huge blow for Remy and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he decided to take some time off but not retire. Let's wait and see how this plays out?



#146 Comfortably Lomb


  • Koko the Monkey


  • 6773 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:44 PM

Each situation is unique unto itself undoubtedly.  Many factors make it difficult for women to leave including familial pressure as apparently in this case on Wednesday from Remy's mother.  Cultural issues, even the psychological beat down of this.  But eventually it is a choice however difficult to stay or go.  Jen Martel endured this for seven years.  This is not the first time for her or Remy encountering the legal system with violence.  In her case, how did it last this long?  Again, each situation is unique.  You CAN get out.  You can save your life.  There ARE resources. There is a choice.  I am speaking from personal experience.  

 

It's so much more complicated than that for many victims of domestic violence. I'm glad your wife got out but for many women the "choice" you're talking about just isn't that easy. Personal experience of not, you sound like someone who doesn't have a clue about how hard it is for some women to extricate themselves from a violent relationship, but also to not just end up in another. As for essentially blaming a dead victim of domestic violence for not just getting out: that is so screwed up.


Edited by Comfortably Lomb, 16 August 2013 - 05:45 PM.


#147 Curll

  • 4398 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:58 PM

Deadspin, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

http://deadspin.com/...dium=socialflow

 

 

 

 

 

 

Windsor Village is full of absolute shitbags, drug dealers, and more bad shit happens there than I can fully describe. My immediate assumption was that he lived there after hearing about this, turns out to be true.



#148 mauidano


  • Mai Tais for everyone!


  • 13426 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:59 PM

 

It's so much more complicated than that for many victims of domestic violence. I'm glad your wife got out but for many women the "choice" you're talking about just isn't that easy. Personal experience of not, you sound like someone who doesn't have a clue about how hard it is for some women to extricate themselves from a violent relationship, but also to not just end up in another. As for essentially blaming a dead victim of domestic violence for not just getting out: that is so screwed up.

It's a very complicated and emotional issue as evidenced by this thread.  No one blamed Jen Martel.  Read closer.  We have no idea the small details regarding this situation.  I think we can all agree that it is very difficult however not impossible.  It's not always a death sentence as it was here.



#149 JohntheBaptist


  • SoSH Member


  • 7933 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:08 PM

Maui, if youre wondering whats bringing the reaction, its this:

Gotta wonder about Martel's choices and level of intelligence given Jared's track record.


This is a shitty thing to post. You dont seem like a shitty guy but this is sort of textbook blame the victim shit. No one has to read much closer on that one.

#150 Comfortably Lomb


  • Koko the Monkey


  • 6773 posts

Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:43 PM

It's a very complicated and emotional issue as evidenced by this thread.  No one blamed Jen Martel.  Read closer.  We have no idea the small details regarding this situation.  I think we can all agree that it is very difficult however not impossible.  It's not always a death sentence as it was here.

 

Read closer? Your prior post:

 

 

 

There are resources out there and protection if a woman chooses.  This is 2013.  She had family and friends.  This wasn't the first time.  And as recently as a couple days ago.  She had a child.  Is that not motivation enough?  Yes, fear is a preventive factor.  But she had choices.  I am not ignorant here.  DV touches a lot of our lives.  It happened to my wife from an ex husband.  It's a choice between life and death.  Horribly sad for all in their circle of family and friends.  A LOT of questions they are all asking of themselves too.

 

If you're either retracting or claiming some amount lack of clarity in your posting, fine, but telling me that it's not a reasonable conclusion that you're placing some degree of blame on the girlfriend here is disingenuous.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users