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Schill's Clubhouse Detractor


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#1 Murray Rude

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:08 AM

who's this?

In his bleakest hour, Schilling indicated, he has imagined a better life after baseball. That moment came after a teammate, whom he declined to identify, complained that Schilling should have received more grief than he has from fans for underachieving. Schilling was stung.

''Somebody on this team wants me to get booed to make them feel better, and that really bothers me a lot," said Schilling, 38, who hopes to pitch two more years.



http://www.boston.co...s_at_schilling/

#2 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:09 AM

Mark Bellhorn ;)

But in all honesty, it's really too hard to tell, and that sort of stuff should stay in there anyways.

#3 philly sox fan


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:16 AM

Pedro. He's just a jealous hater who couldn't stand the way Schilling past him by as workhorse ace.

#4 Randy Kutchers Mullet

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:25 AM

Is there anything really surprising here? Schilling has gotten a remarkably long leash, and the front office has gone out of their way to cover his rear. Considering there's many folks here who've pointed out the odd double standard, is it too surprising that maybe someone in the clubhouse feels the same way?

#5 BC1994

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:27 AM

Manny. I heard Gammons (love him or hate him, he has sources) on ESPN Radio yesterday and he flat out said that there is a real level of animosity there that I didn't think Manny was capable of...

#6 Randy Kutchers Mullet

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:30 AM

Manny.  I heard Gammons (love him or hate him, he has sources) on ESPN Radio yesterday and he flat out said that there is a real level of animosity there that I didn't think Manny was capable of...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That actually makes perfect sense, considering Schilling hasn't been shy about calling Manny out and reaming him out in front of people. Plus, Manny and Pedro were tight.

Good. I like Manny even more now, considering he's 100% right.

#7 Charley Weir

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:34 AM

Schilling has gotten a remarkably long leash, and the front office has gone out of their way to cover his rear.



Yeah, this guy asked for a procedure that the doc had only ever tried on aDEAD GUY BEFORE!!!!

He doesn't deserve ANY slack, man, what has he done for me LATELY!!!!!!!


WHoever that is should go hock his ring, 'cause he doesn't deserve to wear it.

Curt was the last piece of the puzzle in breaking the drought; he risked his career and health to get us there.

SOME of us remember things like that.

Hey you think Dave Roberts would like another ring? Can we slide him in for one SB?

#8 Randy Kutchers Mullet

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:40 AM

Yeah, this guy asked for a procedure that the doc had only ever tried on aDEAD GUY BEFORE!!!!

He doesn't deserve ANY slack, man, what has he done for me LATELY!!!!!!!
WHoever that is should go hock his ring, 'cause he doesn't deserve to wear it.

Curt was the last piece of the puzzle in breaking the drought; he risked his career and health to get us there.

SOME of us remember  things like that.

Hey you think Dave Roberts would like another ring? Can we slide him in for one SB?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I appreciate everything everyone on the team did last year. I really do. Lots of players play through pain, person turmoil, whatever.

Schilling will always have my appreciation.

Doesn't mean he gets to be a holier than thou arse, nor does it mean he gets to suck for a month because he's too stubborn to realize he's not healthy.

Can you seriously not separate his performance this season from his performance last? Why is Schilling more deserving of praise than Pedro, who pitched without a shoulder in '99? Or more deserving than any of the myriad of other players who've played through pain/injury/whatever?

Edited by Randy Kutchers Mullet, 27 September 2005 - 06:46 AM.


#9 redsox1918

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:45 AM

Curt doesn't deserve this at all, but he should have waited to after the season to vent his frustration....

Edited by redsox1918, 27 September 2005 - 06:45 AM.


#10 Barbaric Yawp

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:46 AM

Good. I like Manny even more now, considering he's 100% right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right about what?

That Schill deserves to be booed for risking his career to help deliver the first WS championship to Boston in 86 years?

That Schill said he was coming to Boston to end the championship drought -- and actually backed up that assertion on the mound?

For calling Manny out for being, at times, a disinterested, self-involved baby?

At some level, I can understand a player's animosity toward someone who is considered the fair-haired boy on the team. But wishing him any sort of ill will from the fans or media seems counterproductive (from a team perspective), jealous and mean-spirited.

The fact that one player who went to extraordinary lengths to do something extraordinary is still appreciated by the fans less than a year after that extraordinary event should be the norm, not the exception. Especially when you consider his lack of effectiveness this season has been entirely health related.

#11 Randy Kutchers Mullet

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 06:51 AM

The fact that one player who went to extraordinary lengths to do something extraordinary is still appreciated by the fans less than a year after that extraordinary event should be the norm, not the exception. Especially when you consider his lack of effectiveness this season has been entirely health related.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I agree. And that's the crux of Manny's (if it is Manny) argument.

Look at what Pedro did for the franchise (including his performance against Cleveland) and tell me he didn't deserve the exact same treatment. He did. He deserved to be treated better than Schilling.

But he wasn't. Yes, Pedro was a diva. So, if you haven't noticed, is Schilling.

I'm not wishing ill will on Schilling. But I'm pointing out that it's not incomprehensible for a Red Sox player to feel this way since there's a great many people here who've pointed out the obvious double standard.

And even if you think Schilling is the greatest guy in the world and deserves all of the accolades for what he did last season (and he does), you have to have complete tunnel vision when making baseball decisions for 2005 and beyond. What Schilling did last year in pitching with his ankle injury should have no bearing on his performance this season. The Sox and Schilling should have shut him down since he *admits* he wasn't ready to start Opening Day.

#12 Barbaric Yawp

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:00 AM

I agree. And that's the crux of Manny's (if it is Manny) argument.

Look at what Pedro did for the franchise (including his performance against Cleveland) and tell me he didn't deserve the exact same treatment. He did. He deserved to be treated better than Schilling.

But he wasn't. Yes, Pedro was a diva. So, if you haven't noticed, is Schilling.

I'm not wishing ill will on Schilling. But I'm pointing out that it's not incomprehensible for a Red Sox player to feel this way since there's a great many people here who've pointed out the obvious double standard.

And even if you think Schilling is the greatest guy in the world and deserves all of the accolades for what he did last season (and he does), you have to have complete tunnel vision when making baseball decisions for 2005 and beyond. What Schilling did last year in pitching with his ankle injury should have no bearing on his performance this season. The Sox and Schilling should have shut him down since he *admits* he wasn't ready to start Opening Day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


But you are missing the whole point of this: That someone on his team thinks Schilling should have taken more grief from the fans and the media for his performance this year. That, to me, is an entirely upside down argument that does the team no good. Whether or not all the booing hurt Bellhorn and Embree's performance significantly, I don't know. But I can't imagine it helped in any way.

If this anonymous player -- who frankly doesn't have the balls to put his name to this kind of personal attack -- has an issue, why is he blaming Schilling for being treated fairly and honorably by the fans, media and front office? Why not complain about how unfairly some others were treated (e.g., Pedro at times)?

As for Schilling's peformance this year, I am more than capable of being able to separate the two. And I agree that one should have no bearing on the other. Schilling was certainly guilty of bad judgment regarding his ability to recover from his ankle woes. He admits it. But he wanted to contribute to the team, which is hardly a bad trait to have.

#13 mr guido

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:02 AM

Ahh, just beautiful. Just great. No matter how hurt this makes you feel, no matter how much of a stupid thing it was for this teammate to say, no matter how wronged you think you may be.... Schilling, do you think maybe tied for first place with 7 games left is perhaps the wrong time to open your huge freakin' mouth and air the clubhouse dirty laundry?

Nice work, Captain Schilling.

#14 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:04 AM

Ahh, just beautiful.  Just great.  No matter how hurt this makes you feel, no matter how much of a stupid thing it was for this teammate to say, no matter how wronged you think you may be.... Schilling, do you think maybe tied for first place with 7 games left is perhaps the wrong time to open your huge freakin' mouth and air the clubhouse dirty laundry?

Nice work, Captain Schilling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly what I was thinking. Schilling's willingness to talk about any and every subject has its very obvious downside, and here we are in the most crucial stretch of the season and he's contributing to dissention in the clubhouse. Just once, maybe he could have withheld comment? This crap has no business being in the papers and Schilling would have been better served to keep quiet about it.

But I guess that's just Schilling being Schilling. It's who he is, just like Pedro is overly proud and Manny's something of a flake. It's part of the complete package.

Edited by Smiling Joe Hesketh, 27 September 2005 - 07:04 AM.


#15 soxfan121


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:05 AM

1. This is not the time for this crap. If Schilling is to blame for anything, it's bringing this to light, NOW, of all times.

2. What Schilling did in the 2004 ALCS & World Series is not comparable to Pedro, at any time, in any way, shape or form. What Pedro did is much more akin to what Johnny Damon is doing in 2005. Other than being pitchers, there's ZERO comparison to be made between Pedro's lingering injury issues in 01 and beyond and what Schilling did in the ALCS & WS.

3. This is not the time for this crap. Period. Shut the F*ck Up and play the 7 games necessary to get the 2005 Red Sox to the playoffs.

4. Speculation on WHO said what could be anyone. Refusing to engage in speculation would be nice, but I have no expectation that some of The Fellowship of the Miserable (in full effect already in this thread) will understand this. I look forward to 200 posts by lunchtime of the same 6 asshats arguing the same 3 points endlessly. Yea, SoSH. ;)

5. Someone wondered what Red Sox Nation would be like after we won the World Series - I think we can definitively answer that now...we'll be the same neurotic, miserable fatalists we've always been. Thanks folks, nice job on that.

#16 Barbaric Yawp

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:07 AM

Ahh, just beautiful.  Just great.  No matter how hurt this makes you feel, no matter how much of a stupid thing it was for this teammate to say, no matter how wronged you think you may be.... Schilling, do you think maybe tied for first place with 7 games left is perhaps the wrong time to open your huge freakin' mouth and air the clubhouse dirty laundry?

Nice work, Captain Schilling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not the best timing, but let's be fair -- he was responding to an anonymous attack on him that appeared in the Herald.

Schilling said he suspected the same teammate gave an anonymous quote to the Herald last week in which he aired a similar gripe. Citing the lack of a public backlash against Schilling for his subpar season -- the Sox ace is 7-8 with a 5.89 ERA -- the player was quoted as saying, ''When he comes into the game, people cheer him like he's the Pope? You think they'd let Pedro [Martinez] get away with this? Why does he get a free pass?"



#17 cecilcooper

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:09 AM

should have received more grief than he has from fans for underachieving


I find it odd that any player feels another player should receive grief for underachieving, as long as the effort is there. Under the very big assumption that Manny's criticism were the basis for Curt's comments, we also have to remember that we are reading Curt's translation of Manny. Who the hell knows what was really said or meant. Maybe Manny didn't really think Schilling should be booed, but that he was being treated differently than other players by the fans. Well, Manny is given a massive amount of slack, too--Manny being Manny and all. Imagine the fans reaction to a fringe player not running balls out; not going into the game when requested; etc. Who the heck knows?

If Schilling has hurt the team this year, it was from trying too hard to help. Is someone viewed as trying too hard going to get more slack than somebody with talent, who is viewed--rightly or wrongly--as not trying hard enough? You bet.

#18 irishkg

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:10 AM

This article puzzles me because Curt and Shonda participated.

Why would the media saavy Curt decide to speak?
Why would he speak now?
What does he hope to accomplish?
Why would the media saavy Shonda participate?
Why would Shonda offer such personal comments?
How does she think this will help him?

Since they know full well the storm this will create, I am amazed to read this the last week of the season. This sounds like end of the season reflections yet it comes out when the season is still to be decided. Not that it will happen but I wish this story would be ignored by one and all until the season is done.

#19 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:12 AM

Not the best timing, but let's be fair -- he was responding to an anonymous attack on him that appeared in the Herald.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And like any intelligent person should have done, he should have ignored it. You know, put the team ahead of the individual, like he's been preaching since he got here.

I don't understand why it was necessary for him to comment on that statement at all. What's it going to prove?

How does this help the team?

Edited by Smiling Joe Hesketh, 27 September 2005 - 07:12 AM.


#20 someoneanywhere

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:13 AM

Well, here's the quote:

Citing the lack of a public backlash against Schilling for his subpar season -- the Sox ace is 7-8 with a 5.89 ERA -- the player was quoted as saying, ''When he comes into the game, people cheer him like he's the Pope? You think they'd let Pedro [Martinez] get away with this? Why does he get a free pass?"

So if it is Manny, the Herald reporter has cleaned it up some to Anglicize it, an interesting ethical question in its own right.

The whole thing to me is more a commentary on playing in this town than anything else. Unfortunately, the player above points the finger at Schilling and not at the fans, where IMO it belongs. I have enjoyed this year immensely: the team is fighting hard, the schedule's been a grind, we're still in it even though every team we've played has given us their best shot, and all the while the trophy is ours until someone takes it from us. I am even remarkably calm, absolutely utterly even-keeled, going into this final week.

The worst thing about this year for me has been this booing s**t. Bellhorn, had he not produced, would have been let go without the booing. Same for Embree. Same general idea for Foulke. What purpose does it serve then? I've heard plenty of justifications for why people feel they are entitled to boo, but not one justifying the purpose it serves. In the meanwhile, without these guys and others, it's 87 years and counting without a title. To me, respecting the game means respecting what they did. And respecting that what they did was almost insurmountably hard. That is why they only hand out one trophy. Every other team around failed.

It's not right that the respect standard is applied to G38 and not to the others: it ought to be applied to all of them. Fans respect what G38 did -- as they should -- because it was right there in front their eyes, blood and all. Foulke? Well, he was in one piece, even if his arm was about to fall off, and even if the payment for that performance -- surgery, same as Schill -- didn't come till after it was over. So we can boo him. Bellhorn clubs two game-winning homers and a third for necessary breathing room. But we can boo him because that was last year -- and last year now, by definition, is meaningless and besides, it must have been pretty easy because he did it three games in a row. He ought to hit 162 of them this year, then. Embree was a horse for two years. Millar -- shoot, watch those WS DVDs and tell me that what he did to rally the troops down 0-3 wasn't absolutely critical.

Here's the double-standard that pisses me off: All those years before 2004, the fans used history to justify their misery -- to justify what made them a fan. Last year, the thinking was, always matters; what happened last year, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, means something.

So why now, suddenly, does last year not matter? Because they won it all? That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Because if you respect the championship you've become a fanboy? Well, that would make every major league ballplayer a fanboy, since all them respect how hard it is to get a ring.

It's fine to have expectations, fine to criticize. But booing guys who did something that no Red Sox team has achieved in 86 years -- who did something, in coming back from 0-3, that no baseball team has ever done -- is shallow. It has made me reconsider the idea that Sox fans are "knowledgeable," or at least those fans who do the booing. That's not knowledge. That's stupidity. If Schill's critic wants to point fingers about free passes, point to the stands.

#21 CPT Neuron


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:14 AM

2. What Schilling did in the 2004 ALCS & World Series is not comparable to Pedro, at any time, in any way, shape or form. What Pedro did is much more akin to what Johnny Damon is doing in 2005. Other than being pitchers, there's ZERO comparison to be made between Pedro's lingering injury issues in 01 and beyond and what Schilling did in the ALCS & WS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



You are kidding, right?? The only difference between what Schilling did and what Pedro did comes in the form of the blood. They both risked their futures to help the cause at that moment. Ever think Pedro doesn't decline at the same rate if he doesn't throw with a bum wing? They are the same thing driven from the same principle.

#22 sfip


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:16 AM

I agree that Schilling shouldn't have leaked this, and I strongly don't condone that he did so, but the best we can do as fans is not to make a big deal of this. We need the players to concentrate on what's going on in the field, not on distractions like this.

#23 CR67dream

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:17 AM

I don't know why most here are thinking it was Manny-my guess is that it's Damon. They have the history of not getting along (the wives even had it out), and Damon was the one all over Curt becoming the closer earlier in the year. And Damon yaps to the media a lot more than Manny. And he's not necessaily wired right, either....

As far as coming out with these comments now, I'm not worried about it. Whatever tension that is in the clubhouse existed before Curt responded. I don't believe it will affect anything between the lines.

#24 Barbaric Yawp

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:19 AM

And like any intelligent person should have done, he should have ignored it. You know, put the team ahead of the individual, like he's been preaching since he got here.

I don't understand why it was necessary for him to comment on that statement at all. What's it going to prove?

How does this help the team?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No real disagreement with you, Joe. The smart thing would have been to let this roll off his back and focus on the job at hand. My point is that he didn't open up this can of worms. Should not most of the anger be directed at the coward who fed these attacks to the Herald in the homestretch of a tight pennant race? Oh no, we can't do that because this coward didn't have the stones to put his name behind the quotes.

And, just as some can understand the animosity that buils up toward the fair-haired boy, I can understand how Schill's frustration can build up over an extremely difficult season and boils over when he gets shat upon by a teammate down the stretch. Not wise, as I said, but understandable.

#25 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:23 AM

No real disagreement with you, Joe. The smart thing would have been to let this roll off his back and focus on the job at hand. My point is that he didn't open up this can of worms. Should not most of the anger be directed at the coward who fed these attacks to the Herald in the homestretch of a tight pennant race? Oh no, we can't do that because this coward didn't have the stones to put his name behind the quotes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Then the proper response to that situation is to be the bigger man and decline to comment. How freaking hard is this? He didn't open the can of worms, but by yapping away today he took the can and dumped it all over the floor, making the situation worse.

He's a veteran, he should know better. We read a lot last year from him sanctimoniously telling Scott "My Elbow is Currently In 10,000 Pieces" Williamson to be sure he was playing for the name on the front of the jersey instead of the back. So exactly what the hell is Curt doing in this instance? He's putting his own interests (in this case, defending his reputation) ahead of the team's (full focus on the final week of a tight pennant race). It's really inexcusable and Curt should know better.

Edited by Smiling Joe Hesketh, 27 September 2005 - 07:23 AM.


#26 BigMike


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:31 AM

Manny.  I heard Gammons (love him or hate him, he has sources) on ESPN Radio yesterday and he flat out said that there is a real level of animosity there that I didn't think Manny was capable of...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I wouldn't be surprised if there is a level of animosity between Manny and Curt, but I don't think that the unnamed person is Manny.

It just doesn't make sense. Manny simply doesn't deal with the media, so we are supposed to believe that Manny called a writer over told him, I want to tell you something off the record, and then decided to blast Curt? Beyond that the quotes simply didn't fit Manny speaking style

Curt is Curt. I'm sure he is a great guy, but he is also a very opinionated guy who never seems to censor what he says. This no doubt means that he has alienated teammates in Boston, and in his previous stops.

If I were to guess who it was who made the quotes. I'd point to another teammate who has had injury problems this year which caused him to struggle badly before shutting it down. This teammate was absolutely a playoff hero last year, but he has been booed quite a bit this year.

#27 PC Drunken Friar

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:31 AM

I do't know why peple assume its Manny...when has he EVER publicly called out a teamate or talked to the media about clubhouse or pesonal issues?

Damon seems more likely, but I couldn't care less.

#28 CR67dream

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:35 AM

I get your point, SJH, but I just don't think it's that big a deal. Once between the lines, none of this soap opera shit matters. The real ass is the one who yapped about Schilling in the first place. The "bigger man" response would have been preferable, but as I said earlier, whatever tension exists in that clubhouse was there before Curt opened his mouth. What real difference does it make that he spoke up to defend himself?

#29 Curt S Loew


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:35 AM

but I couldn't care less.


Exactly. This is a great clubhouse, but it ain't Sesame Street. No clubhouse is. I agree it was bad timing, but I also think it has no affect on the field. Hell, we all know how vocal Curt is....imagine if he said how he really felt.

Let's play ball.

#30 mr guido

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:37 AM

If I were to guess who it was who made the quotes. I'd point to another teammate who has had injury problems this year which caused him to struggle badly before shutting it down. This teammate was absolutely a playoff hero last year, but he has been booed quite a bit this year.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps someone who had his job taken by Curt at some point...

Regardless, I don't care who it is. I'm more upset by the Schilling family's decision to cry to the press right now. Settle it yourself, this isn't 3rd grade anymore, tattling to the grownups doesn't make you look any better.

#31 DJnVa


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:37 AM

Is the issue that Schilling underperformed/was injured or that a teammate wants another teammate booed and said so publicly?

The first player chose the time to give the anonymous quote, you can't blame anyone for responding. And, I'm willing to bet Schilling is troubled more by the player going public than he is by the sentiment.

I don't have a problem with someone getting booed, I have a problem with a teammate wanting someone else ON HIS TEAM to get booed.

EDIT: I also agree that once on the field, this doesn't matter. It's McNabb-TO, part 2. Maybe this fires up Schilling a little more tonight.

Edited by DJnVa, 27 September 2005 - 07:39 AM.


#32 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:38 AM

If I were to guess who it was who made the quotes. I'd point to another teammate who has had injury problems this year which caused him to struggle badly before shutting it down. This teammate was absolutely a playoff hero last year, but he has been booed quite a bit this year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Either him, or another teammate who's been playing through pain and who's commented before on Schilling this year.

#33 smastroyin


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:39 AM

I think Shonda made unity ascots this year and this is the backlash of Michelle Damon telling her to go screw.

#34 mr guido

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:39 AM

What real difference does it make that he spoke up to defend himself?

The difference is that now fans everywhere will be wondering which player on the team it was, conducting a witch hunt which has already named 3 of the biggest stars on the team in the brief space of 2 pages of a SoSH thread. And an easy way to prevent that would have been by keeping his mouth closed. Which is obviously an unrealistic hope.

#35 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:40 AM

I get your point, SJH, but I just don't think it's that big a deal. Once between the lines, none of this soap opera shit matters. The real ass is the one who yapped about Schilling in the first place. The "bigger man" response would have been preferable, but as I said earlier, whatever tension exists in that clubhouse was there before Curt opened his mouth. What real difference does it make that he spoke up to defend himself?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because had he simply declined to comment, the issue dies on the vine.

The ball was in Schilling's court. As a self-professed "good teammate" and veteran player, he should know by now the best way to handle these things, which is to avoid commenting about them to the media. I agree that none of this soap opera shit mattters, which is even more of a reason for Schilling to keep his big mouth shut about the issue.

Commenting on it doesn't help the Boston Red Sox at all. It does, however, help Curt Schilling the individual. And I can't accept that.

Edited by Smiling Joe Hesketh, 27 September 2005 - 07:41 AM.


#36 WarningTrackPower

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:41 AM

Can you seriously not separate his performance this season from his performance last? Why is Schilling more deserving of praise than Pedro, who pitched without a shoulder in '99? Or more deserving than any of the myriad of other players who've played through pain/injury/whatever?



Absolutely unbelievable. This whole thread is upside down.

Is the argument being put forth that because Pedro was underappreciated, we should underappreciate Schilling? It has been less than a year since one of the best big game pitchers delivered perhaps the most storied big game performance in baseball history and we are using the words "selfish" and "diva" to describe his contribution to Red Sox baseball.

My respect for SoSH is plummeting. This is right up there with the "Is Schilling's surgery the same type of cheating as taking steroids thread?" Was anyone here watching last fall?

The answer is no you cannot separate his performance this season from his performance last. The Curt Schilling who risked his career to take the ball when we needed it most last year is the same Curt Schilling who tried to come back through the pain this year because he wanted the Red Sox to win it all again. That's what you get with Schilling and I, for one, am glad we have it. It is part of who he is - which is exaclty what the Red Sox needed. It is SoSH that needs the kick in the butt now.

Edited by WarningTrackPower, 27 September 2005 - 07:46 AM.


#37 DJnVa


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:42 AM

I really don't think Manny would be referencing the Pope. But that's just me. Then again, I can't see Damon doing so either.

#38 bosoxgrl


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:44 AM

I agree that Schilling shouldn't have leaked this, and I strongly don't condone that he did so, but the best we can do as fans is not to make a big deal of this. We need the players to concentrate on what's going on in the field, not on distractions like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only problem with that is, you have the yahoos on EEI that will be all over this. Listening to ESPN Radio all week at work, they have been basically blasting Boston and the attitudes of the fans, that it doesn't matter whether we won last year, we are wired to be fatalistic fans after too many years of conditioning that way.

#39 CR67dream

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:45 AM

Well I don't think it hurts the Red Sox, either, SJH. Unless you believe that players will let it affect their play on the field, I'm not sure I get the outrage.

#40 DJnVa


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:47 AM

Contrast the fans reaction on this, with the quotes someone posted yesterday about how a number of these guys love playing here.

As someone up above posted---we shouldn't want another player to be "mistreated" just because someone else was.

#41 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:47 AM

Well I don't think it hurts the Red Sox, either, SJH. Unless you believe that players will let it affect their play on the field, I'm not sure I get the outrage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's Schilling putting his own interests (his reputation) above those of the team (winning ballgames right now). It's now a big story around the clubhouse and cannot contribute to a winning atmosphere; it will instead sow dissention. And considering Schilling's calling out of Williamson last year (pretty much the last guy in the world who could be considered to have been dogging it), I find the situation highly interesting, to say the least.

Just once, he could have declined to comment. But that's as futile as asking the tide to stop coming in.

Edited by Smiling Joe Hesketh, 27 September 2005 - 07:49 AM.


#42 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:49 AM

Isn't there a chance that the source here is the other loudmouth, Mr. Millar? A guy who has taken a ton of grief for his underperformance this year- which hasn't been nearly as poor as Curt's?

More likely, it's probably Damon.

Regardless, this is stupid. Everyone should shut up and focus on the task at hand. Not the time nor the place, and a clubhouse leader should know that.

#43 Gambler7

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:49 AM

It simple amazes me how people take one quote out of a newspaper and go into hysteria over it, just amazing. Almost amazing as people actually thinking it would affect the team at all. Look at thsi thread, we have people speaking as if they knew who said what, as if they knew the entire story, as if they were in the minds of whoever may of made some comments. Unreal

"Listening to ESPN Radio all week at work, they have been basically blasting Boston and the attitudes of the fans, that it doesn't matter whether we won last year, we are wired to be fatalistic fans after too many years of conditioning that way"

Read this thread and tell me it's not true, my god. Stop blaming the "yahoos" on radio, ths place is just as bad most of the time, stop ignoring it.

7 big games left

#44 DJnVa


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:49 AM

It's Schilling putting his own interests (his reputation) above those of the team (winning ballgames right now). It's now a big story around the clubhouse and cannot contribute to a winning atmosphere; it will instead sow dissention.

Just once, he could have declined to comment. But that's as futile as asking the tide to stop coming in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Do you think the person giving the anonymous quote has any responsibility to keep his mouth shut instead of playing office politics anonymously in the paper with a week left in the season?

They BOTH should have kept quiet, but it seems a little unfair to criticize only the response.

#45 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:51 AM

Do you think the person giving the anonymous quote has any responsibility to keep his mouth shut instead of playing office politics anonymously in the paper with a week left in the season?

They BOTH should have kept quiet, but it seems a little unfair to criticize only the response.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, they absolutely should have both STFU. No need for the original comments at all.

However, an anonymous quote given last week would simply die on the vine. Anything Schilling says is by definition big news, and by speaking out he's blown the situation up to enormous proportions. As a vet, and a supposed clubhouse leader, he should have known this.

Edited by Smiling Joe Hesketh, 27 September 2005 - 07:51 AM.


#46 Pumpsie


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:52 AM

This is not good, especially on the eve of the biggest day of the season thus far, the day/night doubleheader with the Jays.

Terry Francona has to deal with this...now....in the clubhouse....today, before the first game. He shouldn't make a big deal out of this, but since the media will, and the fans will react somehow to this news during the games, he HAS to bring it up.

We don't know who the player in question was. I doubt sincerely that it was Manny. My first thought was Kevin Millar, who's received his share of boos lately for a subpar performance after being a hero last year as well, ...but that's just me. But we don't know.

#47 BigJimEd

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:54 AM

Schilling has never been known to be one of the most popular guys in the clubhouse, so this really shouldn't come as a suprise.

The quote although directed at Schilling could be as much about that players frustration at some of the fans.


Poor timing. I understand Schilling's frustration but this is not the time. Although I doubt it amounts to much.

What Schilling (and to a degree Foulke) did last year is worthy of getting a free pass.

I am curious about the "risking his career" to pitch in October. Wasn't everyone saying at the time that pitching would not cause further damage. The damage was already done and it was just a matter of when to have the surgery. Which he obviuously could've done right away and have a better chance of being healthy this year. I thought most of his problems came from rushing back which Schilkling himself seems to say.
Again, I'm not trying to belittle anything he did last year because it was truely amazing and worthy of mucho, mucho praise. I just don't remember any career risk by continuing to pitch.

#48 jose melendez


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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:56 AM

My only complaint with Schill is that he chose to talk about this now.

I think it comes from Foulke. He's sort of a dour guy, he played as big a role as Schill last year, and has played terribly due to injury, and he's been booed while Schill got the free ride. Of course, Foulke chose NOT to have needed surgery in the off season.

#49 Barbaric Yawp

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:56 AM

Yes, they absolutely should have both STFU. No need for the original comments at all.

However, an anonymous quote given last week would simply die on the vine. Anything Schilling says is by definition big news, and by speaking out he's blown the situation up to enormous proportions. As a vet, and a supposed clubhouse leader, he should have known this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SJH, you have alternatively argued that this incident is worthy of your "outrage," "doesn't matter," will "sow dissension" or has been blown up into "enormous proportions." Aside from engaging in some serious hyperbole, which is it -- i.e. does it not matter to what is going down this week or will it sow dissension? And, if it doesn't matter, why the outrage?

Edited by Barbaric Yawp, 27 September 2005 - 08:00 AM.


#50 CR67dream

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:56 AM

Ironically, from what I understand, it wasn't that Schilling was getting on Williamson for dogging it, but instead for not acknowledging that Williamson continuing to pitch hurt was hurting the team.

Yeah, I get that it would have been better if Curt left well enough alone, at least until the season is over. He didn't. The situation is not ideal, but I don't think that it has anything, or will have anything to do with wins and losses. Pretty much just fodder for the 'eei idiots. Let 'em have at it, I'll be watching baseball.