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Time to Dump NY's No Facial Hair Rule?


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#1 jon abbey


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

I talked about how dumb I thought this was in the wake of the "looks like he is 15 years old again" Kevin Youkilis pix a week or two ago, and today David Price brought it up:

=======================================

 

Taking note of his beard, I told Price he’d have to shave if the Yankees traded for him.


“I wouldn’t stay there very long then,” he responded. “I wouldn’t sign a long-term deal there. Those rules, that’s old-school baseball. I was born in ’85. That’s not for me. That’s not something I want to be a part of.”

 

http://msn.foxsports...-he-stay-021913

 

=======================================

 

And good for him, honestly, Dump this rule already!!!

 



#2 brs3


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:48 PM

They need to keep it, so we can continue to mock the clean shaven chuckleheads.



#3 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:50 PM

First you give them ice cream, next they want beards.  Sheesh.



#4 terrynever


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:50 PM

I'm old and I went to school. Keep the rule. It provides a basis for team-wide unity that is sometimes missing elsewhere in the sports world. Yanks are okay with mustaches. Beards are for the House of David team.



#5 Average Reds


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:53 PM

The rule existed only because George had a football mentality - he thought that the discipline would make his team play better.  Of course, this is nonsense and George is gone in any case, but the rule lives on because it somehow became a part of the team's identity.  I'm sure they insist on this rule with every free agent they sign, and because they are willing to pay more than anyone else, they get away with it.  But one of these days they'll trade for a player they really want and that player will tell them to shove it and the rule will be gone.



#6 terrynever


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:58 PM

The rule existed only because George had a football mentality - he thought that the discipline would make his team play better.  Of course, this is nonsense and George is gone in any case, but the rule lives on because it somehow became a part of the team's identity.  I'm sure they insist on this rule with every free agent they sign, and because they are willing to pay more than anyone else, they get away with it.  But one of these days they'll trade for a player they really want and that player will tell them to shove it and the rule will be gone.

Damon seemed to survive in NY without the Jesus look.



#7 TheYaz67

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:25 PM

Except he wasn't traded for....



#8 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

Also, Average Reds didn't claim players couldn't handle the rule, just that eventually they'll end up in a situation where a player who didn't agree to the rules refuses to abide by them and there won't be anything they can do about it.



#9 terrynever


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:43 PM

Yeah, this no beards rule could be the end of the Yankees!



#10 jon abbey


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:46 PM

It's idiotic and antiquated and serves no purpose except to make the team look silly to outsiders as was said above. The player who eventually makes them shitcan this silliness will win an eternal place in my heart.



#11 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

Yeah, this no beards rule could be the end of the Yankees!

 

No one is even coming close to saying this.  But have fun with it.



#12 jon abbey


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

I'm old and I went to school. Keep the rule. It provides a basis for team-wide unity that is sometimes missing elsewhere in the sports world. Yanks are okay with mustaches. Beards are for the House of David team.

 

Come on, Terry, you can't possibly believe this. "Wow, Kevin, you shaved your beard, I feel so much closer to you." "Thanks, Joba! Maybe we can do a little cuddling after the game tonight?" :lol:

What's funny is that the precise opposite is so much more true, as witnessed by some Oakland teams (the 2001-era Giambi ones, last year's overachievers), and we all know about playoff beards in the NHL.



#13 Average Reds


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

Damon seemed to survive in NY without the Jesus look.

 

As was pointed out, Damon signed as a free agent.  And no free agent will ever give a shit about the rule because the Yankees will say "If you don't like the rule, go play somewhere else for many millions less than we're willing to pay you."

 

It's something of a self-correcting problem.

 

Yeah, this no beards rule could be the end of the Yankees!

 

I have no idea what you are talking about.



#14 terrynever


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:20 PM

As was pointed out, Damon signed as a free agent.  And no free agent will ever give a shit about the rule because the Yankees will say "If you don't like the rule, go play somewhere else for many millions less than we're willing to pay you."

 

It's something of a self-correcting problem.

 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Just drinking some hair of the dog, Reds. This is a silly subject. I disregard Price's remarks completely. Free agents go where the money is, not where the most lenient barber rules reign, as you just pointed out.

I do believe in some form of discipline, dating back to my Army days. You want people to bind together in a common cause, shave their heads and put them through some tough training. And I realize all you people think this is stupid but only a few of you ever had to go into the military. I understand JA's references to the 1970s A's and the Damon-era Sox. My personal preference is for what the Yankees have done over the years. (I don't like tattoos either. Shoot me if you can find me.)


Edited by terrynever, 20 February 2013 - 06:20 PM.


#15 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

Just drinking some hair of the dog, Reds. This is a silly subject. I disregard Price's remarks completely. Free agents go where the money is, not where the most lenient barber rules reign, as you just pointed out.

I do believe in some form of discipline, dating back to my Army days. You want people to bind together in a common cause, shave their heads and put them through some tough training. And I realize all you people think this is stupid but only a few of you ever had to go into the military. I understand JA's references to the 1970s A's and the Damon-era Sox. My personal preference is for what the Yankees have done over the years. (I don't like tattoos either. Shoot me if you can find me.)

 

Or you know, drink a shot of Jack Daniels and beat the Yankees four times in four days.



#16 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:31 PM

Price's comments are interesting because it sounds as if he finds the rule patronizing. A guy as accomplished as he is already in his young career probably doesn't appreciate that much.

#17 TheShynessClinic


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:35 PM

How do you account for the Special Forces then, terrynever?

Also the military short hair, no facial hair rule for the most part is for field hygiene. It has nothing to do with camaraderie or anything stupid like that.

I'm in the military and I think the facial hair rules are stupid.

The Yankees are also stupid.

#18 rembrat


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:45 PM

I bet Derek Jeter could grow a mighty beard.



#19 Trlicek's Whip

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:20 PM

I'm old and I went to school. Keep the rule. It provides a basis for team-wide unity that is sometimes missing elsewhere in the sports world. Yanks are okay with mustaches. Beards are for the House of David team.

 

Team chemistry can be tossed out with the mystique and aura bathwater at this point. It's always overstated when teams win, and understated when they don't.

 

And it's asinine when your clean-shaven players are suspended seven times for cocaine use, or taking PED's and lying about it, or even when Youks throws his inaugural called-third strike hissy fit at the plate in Yankee Terminal.

 

In the fallow "Bronx Zoo" years pre-1996 I'm not sure the smooth cheeks and high-and-tight cuts did any bit of good at all for morale or discipline.  


Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 20 February 2013 - 07:22 PM.


#20 doc

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

I bet Derek Jeter could grow a mighty beard.

The increased air resistance would cut down his range even further.



#21 tbrep

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:36 PM

I agree with JA on this one. The rule needs to go. I know it's unlikely, but what would happen if one of the players was a Sikh, devout orthodox Jew or of any other culture/religion that he felt required him to keep his beard? For me, the rule has always had connotations of xenophobia/intolerance. I mean, I work at a hospital where, despite health regulations and such, allowances are made for facial hair and headgear in operating theatres as deference to different cultures.

 

I also really detest the whole shaving-for-team-unity angle. There are a thousand and one better ways for the team to feel "united".



#22 DLew On Roids


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:30 PM

Just drinking some hair of the dog, Reds. This is a silly subject. I disregard Price's remarks completely. Free agents go where the money is, not where the most lenient barber rules reign, as you just pointed out.

I do believe in some form of discipline, dating back to my Army days. You want people to bind together in a common cause, shave their heads and put them through some tough training. And I realize all you people think this is stupid but only a few of you ever had to go into the military. I understand JA's references to the 1970s A's and the Damon-era Sox. My personal preference is for what the Yankees have done over the years. (I don't like tattoos either. Shoot me if you can find me.)

 

It's a place of business, not a boot camp.  Rules about facial hair are infantilizing and disrespectful.



#23 TheoShmeo


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:31 PM

Did Storm Troopers have facial hair?

Messing with tradition radically provokes the law of unintended consequences.

And more than that, nothing should be done to humanize that team.

#24 JohntheBaptist


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:32 PM

Price's comments are interesting because it sounds as if he finds the rule patronizing. A guy as accomplished as he is already in his young career probably doesn't appreciate that much.

That's always how I've seen it.  The mere idea of telling a grown adult how to fashion their body hair--because it means something!--is insulting to the intelligence, too.



#25 jon abbey


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:04 PM

Exactly, it is patronizing. More relevantly to the Yankees, they're not the only team with a huge payroll anymore and they can't afford to alienate players for a reason as silly as this.



#26 Van Everyman


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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:53 PM

I agree with JA on this one. The rule needs to go. I know it's unlikely, but what would happen if one of the players was a Sikh, devout orthodox Jew or of any other culture/religion that he felt required him to keep his beard? For me, the rule has always had connotations of xenophobia/intolerance. I mean, I work at a hospital where, despite health regulations and such, allowances are made for facial hair and headgear in operating theatres as deference to different cultures.

Didn't Ross Perot have the same rule at his company? It definitely strikes me as a J Edgar Hoover-esque conservative/"no hippies" thing.

#27 keyalyn

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:26 PM

The team unity argument doesn't really fly on this one for me. Is it really team unity that everyone does something because your boss tells you to? Being forced to comply to a demand from your superiors doesn't classify as uniting, it classifies as obeying company policy.



#28 armyguy25

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:15 PM

Yeah, its not like hed refuse to sign with the Yanks if they were the highest bidder by $10 million or somethingm But those days are over, the Yanks are not flat outbidding anyone anymore. And all things being equL, if two teams are offering the same money, it might come down to something as "stupid" as that policy. Not that its even about facial hair. Price probably just doesnt appreciate having his team insert itself into what he deems to be none of their business. Its not like having a beard brings shame to the Yankees or anythibg so he has a point. It might be different if every other team i baseballl didnt havean opposite policy.

And its a generational thing. Guys who are 50+ probably dont see anythibg wrong in a boss having a say in their personal lifestyle choices. Lots and lots of 30 and under people would though. Is NY prepared to lose high profile FA over this? Seems to be idiotic if they did. Price is going to get paid somewhere.

#29 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:46 AM

And its a generational thing. Guys who are 50+ probably dont see anythibg wrong in a boss having a say in their personal lifestyle choices. Lots and lots of 30 and under people would though. Is NY prepared to lose high profile FA over this? Seems to be idiotic if they did. Price is going to get paid somewhere.

 

It's not generational, or at least if it is I think it goes back a good deal further than 50+. I'm 55 and I would see everything wrong with a boss dictating my personal grooming choices.



#30 EvilEmpire

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:53 AM

How do you account for the Special Forces then, terrynever?

Also the military short hair, no facial hair rule for the most part is for field hygiene. It has nothing to do with camaraderie or anything stupid like that.

I'm in the military and I think the facial hair rules are stupid.

The Yankees are also stupid.

 

C'mon, you know SF guys only have relaxed grooming standards when they are on mission in an area where it helps them blend in and work with local forces.  And with regard to field hygiene, maybe 30% of the rule is for field hygiene and protective mask seal. 

 

Most of it is about culture and discipline, just like many other standards.



#31 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:53 AM

Yeah, its not like hed refuse to sign with the Yanks if they were the highest bidder by $10 million or somethingm But those days are over, the Yanks are not flat outbidding anyone anymore. And all things being equL, if two teams are offering the same money, it might come down to something as "stupid" as that policy. Not that its even about facial hair. Price probably just doesnt appreciate having his team insert itself into what he deems to be none of their business. Its not like having a beard brings shame to the Yankees or anythibg so he has a point. It might be different if every other team i baseballl didnt havean opposite policy.

And its a generational thing. Guys who are 50+ probably dont see anythibg wrong in a boss having a say in their personal lifestyle choices. Lots and lots of 30 and under people would though. Is NY prepared to lose high profile FA over this? Seems to be idiotic if they did. Price is going to get paid somewhere.

Maybe not this year and maybe not next, while they work to get under the cap, but please don't kid yourself about this for the long term.



#32 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:12 AM

Exactly, it is patronizing. More relevantly to the Yankees, they're not the only team with a huge payroll anymore and they can't afford to alienate players for a reason as silly as this.

 

Plus, as far as team building and unity go, we've heard enough stories from the locker room that they had many of the same issues other teams did. A lack of facial hair didn't keep the players from calling ARod "Bitch Tits" and generally hating his guts, for example. The players are professionals, they should probably be treated like adults in regards to personal grooming choice.



#33 EvilEmpire

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

A lack of facial hair didn't keep the players from calling ARod "Bitch Tits" and generally hating his guts, for example.

 

Like the ban on facial hair, this also sounds like a team building activity.



#34 glennhoffmania


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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:30 AM

It's not generational, or at least if it is I think it goes back a good deal further than 50+. I'm 55 and I would see everything wrong with a boss dictating my personal grooming choices.

 

I generally agree, but many, many companies have dress codes and appearance requirements.  While it may not apply to the Yankees, I can see the argument that an employer wants the employees to present themselves in a certain way that the clients expect.  If I walked into work tomorrow with a ponytail, a few earrings, and a big tat on my neck I'm sure I'd get some feedback from the bosses.



#35 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:42 AM

Like the ban on facial hair, this also sounds like a team building activity.

 

They were going to beat him with sacks of nickles but Girardi stopped their fun. First no ice cream and then this.



#36 armyguy25

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 06:44 PM

 
I generally agree, but many, many companies have dress codes and appearance requirements.  While it may not apply to the Yankees, I can see the argument that an employer wants the employees to present themselves in a certain way that the clients expect.  If I walked into work tomorrow with a ponytail, a few earrings, and a big tat on my neck I'm sure I'd get some feedback from the bosses.


ok but we're not talkong about neck tats or anything else considered "shocking" by a decent number of mainstream people. Well kept beards are considered normal and sensible in public by close to 100% of society. I dont think anybody would think it weird that a pro sports team would prohibit, say, face tats or sonething like that. But to prohibit something as commonplace and "normal" as beards is going waaay overboard in terms of your boss dictating lifestyle choices, and really, just makes the Yankees ridiculous. Like your old deaf grandmother who shouts to everyone who willl listen that rock and roll is the Devils Music while shaking her fist. Just makes them loom out of touch, old and silly.

#37 mt8thsw9th


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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:24 PM

Do you know who else hates grooming rules? Nickelback.

#38 glennhoffmania


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Posted 22 February 2013 - 09:30 AM

ok but we're not talkong about neck tats or anything else considered "shocking" by a decent number of mainstream people. Well kept beards are considered normal and sensible in public by close to 100% of society. I dont think anybody would think it weird that a pro sports team would prohibit, say, face tats or sonething like that. But to prohibit something as commonplace and "normal" as beards is going waaay overboard in terms of your boss dictating lifestyle choices, and really, just makes the Yankees ridiculous. Like your old deaf grandmother who shouts to everyone who willl listen that rock and roll is the Devils Music while shaking her fist. Just makes them loom out of touch, old and silly.

 

I was responding to Savin's post where he said he wouldn't like his boss dictating his grooming choices.  I was only saying there are some instances where I could understand it.  I'm not defending NY's stupid facial hair policy.



#39 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

I was responding to Savin's post where he said he wouldn't like his boss dictating his grooming choices.  I was only saying there are some instances where I could understand it.  I'm not defending NY's stupid facial hair policy.

 

OK, but I guess I would fall back on armyguy's point and say that I would have a problem with my boss dictating grooming choices within the normally accepted range of said choices. Body-mod type stuff still has a definite cultural expressive value that I could understand an organization being shy of (I'd despise it, but I'd understand it). But the decision of whether and how much to shave one's face? The Yankees may be the last non-military organization in the Western world that gives a crap about that, and it does make them look silly.



#40 glennhoffmania


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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:45 AM

I'm with ya.  Personally I think all of this is nonsense and if it was up to me I'd come to work everyday in jeans, sneakers and a t-shirt.  My company doesn't even allow polo shirts except during very hot days in the summer.  It makes no sense.  The Yankees take it to an extreme.  There's nothing wrong with facial hair.



#41 Max Power


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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:22 PM

I bet Derek Jeter could grow a mighty beard.

 

Definitely.  He seems to have a new one every six months.

 

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