93 replies to this topic

[Harry Hooper]

It's clearly Jerry Remy.

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Merloni hasn't been with the Sox since 2003 or in baseball since 2006. What am I missing?

Edited by Papelbon's Poutine, 07 February 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[cornwalls@6]

Think Merloni was speaking in 2009, about an incident in the early 2000's.

[wutang112878]

Give him a few days and he will recant this, or claim he was misquoted or change his tune in some way.  He runs his mouth, just like his claim of x% of players using steroids that he changed his tune on.

[Trlicek's Whip]

Schilling makes outrageous statement. Gets attention. Realizes there are consequences. Backpedals. Rinse, repeat.

 

It's not like he doesn't know how the local Boston sports media operates. Won't take much time to pinpoint the "former organization members." So the "realizes there are consequences" rings a bit false here. 

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 07 February 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[wutang112878]

Those steps are sequential.  He cant stop himself from making statements to get attention and doesnt realize the consequences at the time.  For example, he acted surprised when asked to go before the senate.  He cant think 2 steps ahead

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

@gehrig38: outing the person would not do anything for anyone. It wasn't anyone in uniform, nor the baseball ops group

 

So it wasn't a coach or manager or Theo or a player. OK then. The team doc? The trainer? A beer vendor?

[glennhoffmania]

So it wasn't a coach or manager or Theo or a player. OK then. The team doc? The trainer? A beer vendor?

 

Here's my guess:

 

Edited by glennhoffmania, 07 February 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Those teeth sure look like they're not natural. My eyes!

[glennhoffmania]

I changed the picture.  I didn't want to keep looking at those things.

[Comfortably Lomb]

"Was played"?  "How things were"?  So, when "did" the Steroid Era end, then?

 

It hasn't ended and will never end.  The only slim hope is that we can at least stop hearing about it.

[xpisblack]

Sort of my point.  Either it ended in 2004, when the league began handing out suspensions and administering tests, or it's become a simple fact of the game.  I would love the former, but the latter is more likely.

[BosRedSox5]

So it wasn't a coach or manager or Theo or a player. OK then. The team doc? The trainer? A beer vendor?

 

What a dickhead. In an interview he's claiming that someone in the organization encouraged him to use PEDs and now he's like "Oh, it wasn't anyone in uniform, or in baseball ops". That pretty much rules out anyone important right? Some screwball trainer floated it by him? Who knows. 

Considering that Curt Schilling is broke he should be trying to stay in New England's good graces so he can get asked to do a Dunkin commercial or something...

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Apparently, MLB investigated Schilling's PED report in 2008.
 

Schilling reported the incident to Theo Epstein, then the team’s general manager. Epstein informed Major League Baseball and an investigation took place.

"We take any report like this seriously and there was an investigation," said MLB vice president Pat Courtney.

Courtney would not say what the outcome of the investigation was, saying it was a matter between the Red Sox and that employee. That person no longer works for the team.

Schilling said several investigators from MLB came to Boston to speak to him.

“I don’t remember who they were. I was trying to downplay the whole thing because I wasn’t playing at the time and I didn’t want to cause any problems in the clubhouse,” Schilling said. “Had I known Theo was going to report it to MLB, I would have never said anything. I was kind of mad that he had to do that.”

Schilling would not identify the person other than to say it was not former medical director Thomas Gill or former head athletic trainer Paul Lessard.

[snowmanny]

 
So it wasn't a coach or manager or Theo or a player. OK then. The team doc? The trainer? A beer vendor?

A consultant sabermetrician?

[YTF]

It's clearly Jerry Remy.

Perhaps Jared Remy?

http://www.boston.co..._steroids_case/

[mauidano]

C'mon Schill.  If you're gonna put it out there, back it up.  You should know better.  Otherwise, just shut up, you're not helping ANYONE.

[SoxLegacy]

Perhaps Jared Remy?

http://www.boston.co..._steroids_case/

Well, that fits the time frame.

[Harry Agganis]

Ny Times Story about Jared Remy and Nicholas Alex Cyr. Though the story implies Jared was selling to Nick

 

http://www.nytimes.c...roids.html?_r=0

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Did Jared ever actually work for the team?

[HillysLastWalk]

C'mon Schill.  If you're gonna put it out there, back it up.  You should know better.  Otherwise, just shut up, you're not helping ANYONE.

Hasn't it been backed up already?  According to this link (from up-thread) it was already investigated back in 2008: http://www.boston.co...nvestigate.html

 

Not directed at you, just the general tone of some in this thread puzzles me.  There's no 2004 without Curt Schilling.  The guy is alright in my book.  In addition, in his mind (and before he was torn apart at times in this thread):

 

* The event happened

* It was immediately reported to Theo

* Who immediately reported it to MLB

* Who investigated it at that time.

 

So, it's over and done with, and there's really no need for any further investigation.  Knowing all that (as he did), I'd think it wouldn't be too crazy to drop that story in conversation.  But I could be wrong.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 07 February 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[Buck Showalter]

Did Jared ever actually work for the team?

And did he work or have reason to be in the clubhouse as Schilling stated?

Edited by Buck Showalter, 07 February 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[Koufax]

Hasn't it been backed up already?  According to this link (from up-thread) it was already investigated back in 2008: http://www.boston.co...nvestigate.html

 

Not directed at you, just the general tone of some in this thread puzzles me.  There's no 2004 without Curt Schilling.  The guy is alright in my book.  In addition, in his mind (and before he was torn apart at times in this thread):

 

* The event happened

* It was immediately reported to Theo

* Who immediately reported it to MLB

* Who investigated it at that time.

 

So, it's over and done with, and there's really no need for any further investigation.  Knowing all that (as he did), I'd think it wouldn't be too crazy to drop that story in conversation.  But I could be wrong.

 

That's my take on it.  The speed with which folks turn from fawning fans, so excited that he posted here, to barracudas, is a little breathtaking.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Did Jared ever actually work for the team?

Not Jared, but a friend of his who was busted with him was on the security staff.

Globe story from 2009, "Sox fired two in steroids case

[Montana Fan]

I'm a Schilling fan (how could any of us not be) but he is clearly trying to deliver edgy content to get/keep a decent job so he can earn a good income after pissing away his lifetime of earnings. Brings to mind one of my favorite quotes.

Curt is a horse every fifth day. The other four days, hes a horses ass.

And I still like Curt but he is what he is.

[YTF]

Not Jared, but a friend of his who was busted with him was on the security staff.

Globe story from 2009, "Sox fired two in steroids case

According to the story, Remy WAS one of the guys fired.

[SoxLegacy]

Hasn't it been backed up already?  According to this link (from up-thread) it was already investigated back in 2008: http://www.boston.co...nvestigate.html

 

Not directed at you, just the general tone of some in this thread puzzles me.  There's no 2004 without Curt Schilling.  The guy is alright in my book.  In addition, in his mind (and before he was torn apart at times in this thread):

 

* The event happened

* It was immediately reported to Theo

* Who immediately reported it to MLB

* Who investigated it at that time.

 

So, it's over and done with, and there's really no need for any further investigation.  Knowing all that (as he did), I'd think it wouldn't be too crazy to drop that story in conversation.  But I could be wrong.

Agree with this.

Edited by SoxLegacy, 07 February 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[Dick Pole Upside]

I think it's Schilling citing a casual comment and blowing things up. It's more of a story today because of the PED nests that are being exposed (BALCO, Radomski/NYC, Biogenesis).

I don't visit SoSH chat too often, but I swear I was in chat after Schilling had recently joined the Sox and he hopped into the chatroom... this was right around the time of the 2003 testing (edit: I think the testing took place AFTER the 2003 season around the time Schilling was being acquired or shortly thereafter). As I recall, broader testing would only take place in MLB if a certain % of the "test" tests turned up positive for PEDs... Schilling was popping off in chat about how he and some other pitchers WANTED to fail the test and were making/drinking powdered shakes containing banned drugs so that they would fail and tip the % high enough so that all of MLB would be tested.

I was stupified that he would boast about such a thing. Today, I think it was an idea that he had that he didn't really carry out, but wanted to boast about the concept... in similar fashion, I think he's boasting here about being above the fray... and trying to play the hero by being faux pissed that it got out of the locker room when Theo reported it. It's all for show.

Edited by Dick Pole Upside, 07 February 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[HriniakPosterChild]

I was stupified that he would boast about such a thing. Today, I think it was an idea that he had that he didn't really carry out, but wanted to boast about the concept... in similar fashion, I think he's boasting here about being above the fray... and trying to play the hero by being faux pissed that it got out of the locker room when Theo reported it. It's all for show.

 

Since a refusal to take the 2003 test was graded the same as a positive result, it's a pretty odd thing for him to have said.

 

Link: Sixteen members of the Chicago White Sox were ready to refuse a drug test Tuesday in hopes of making steroid testing mandatory.

[reggiecleveland]

This says it all right here.

 

He has attempted to get his name on the front page or side-bar of ESPN.com for as long as I can remember. A few days ago he told reporters that he knew of gay teammates that he played with but wouldn't name names.

 

He wants relevancy. He wants to be seen as the 'truth' within the game. He doesn't have much left but his stories and so I imagine they will all come out, in one form or another, as he trudges through a retirement without grace.

[xpisblack]

Hasn't it been backed up already?  According to this link (from up-thread) it was already investigated back in 2008: http://www.boston.co...nvestigate.html

 

Not directed at you, just the general tone of some in this thread puzzles me.  There's no 2004 without Curt Schilling.  The guy is alright in my book.  In addition, in his mind (and before he was torn apart at times in this thread):

 

* The event happened

* It was immediately reported to Theo

* Who immediately reported it to MLB

* Who investigated it at that time.

 

So, it's over and done with, and there's really no need for any further investigation.  Knowing all that (as he did), I'd think it wouldn't be too crazy to drop that story in conversation.  But I could be wrong.

The problem isn't what he said, but rather the careless manner in which he said it.  Just based on he initial post, he casually threw out, in a recent interview about PEDs, that a member of the Red Sox organisation offered him PEDs, and he turned it down.  That story is about how good a guy Schilling is, how honourable and fair-minded and clean he is.  The story you posted was different: it was about when Schilling narced out someone in the clubhouse and got angry about the team's inevitable investigation and dismissal of that employee.  All he needed to say in order to make this a non-story was a single line in the interview along the lines of "But there was immediately an investigation and the team and league took care of it, so it's not as though the Front Office was encouraging drugs, or anything."  But he didn't say that; instead he blandly claimed that a member of the organisation had offered him drugs, and that he'd been appalled.

 

The actual reality is the same, no matter the version; the reporting differs, and the consequences can be quite different.  Schilling has a special place in my heart and I will always love his contributions to 2004 and beyond, but that doesn't mean I don't sometimes wince at his apparent thoughtlessness, particularly in interviews.

 

I think it's Schilling citing a casual comment and blowing things up. It's more of a story today because of the PED nests that are being exposed (BALCO, Radomski/NYC, Biogenesis).

I don't visit SoSH chat too often, but I swear I was in chat after Schilling had recently joined the Sox and he hopped into the chatroom... this was right around the time of the 2003 testing (edit: I think the testing took place AFTER the 2003 season around the time Schilling was being acquired or shortly thereafter). As I recall, broader testing would only take place in MLB if a certain % of the "test" tests turned up positive for PEDs... Schilling was popping off in chat about how he and some other pitchers WANTED to fail the test and were making/drinking powdered shakes containing banned drugs so that they would fail and tip the % high enough so that all of MLB would be tested.

I was stupified that he would boast about such a thing. Today, I think it was an idea that he had that he didn't really carry out, but wanted to boast about the concept... in similar fashion, I think he's boasting here about being above the fray... and trying to play the hero by being faux pissed that it got out of the locker room when Theo reported it. It's all for show.

As I recall, Nomar said something along these lines after Ortiz's positive test in 2009, during that A's series, that some players and maybe an entire starting nine refused to take the tests in order to bolster the PED figures.  He or maybe Arroyo said in the same set of interviews that his name might be on the list, and he wouldn't know because the players weren't informed of individual results, only of the total figure.  Whether those 104 players were notified for their positive tests (which were, in theory, anonymous) has not yet been fully confirmed or denied.  Well, actually, it has been each confirmed and denied.  Still, it seems to have been common knowledge back then that some players refused the tests to get to that crucial percentage, not knowing that so doing would land them on the soon-to-be-publicised PED abusers list that was supposed to remain anonymous.

 

MLB bungled this whole saga from the beginning.  Schilling bungled this interview.  Sun rise, sun set.

[glennhoffmania]

Apparently, MLB investigated Schilling's PED report in 2008.
 

 

If he's going to keep listing people it's not, why not just say who it is?  So far the list of suspects we can cross off is pretty damn long. 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

If he's going to keep listing people it's not, why not just say who it is?  So far the list of suspects we can cross off is pretty damn long.

If the story is accurate and the person was fired over the remark four years ago, why is it relevant to name names at this point? The guy got his punishment, so to speak, and is probably on MLB watch-lists as unemployable or whatever. It serves no purpose to drag the guy out into the public spotlight now, other than to embarrass and humiliate the guy. Story over, really.

[glennhoffmania]

I agree that the story should be over.  My point is that he shouldn't have said anything at all.  But if he's going to talk about it, and then list a bunch of people who aren't the culprit, I don't see the point of that.

[Van Everyman]

Curiously vague MLB statement:

MLB statement regarding comments made by former Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling:

At the time of the incident in question in 2008, the Boston Red Sox immediately reported the allegations to Major League Baseball as required by our investigative protocols. Once the Red Sox reported the matter, Major League Baseball assumed sole responsibility for the investigation. The Club handled the matter consistent with all MLB rules and requirements and in a manner that was above reproach.

Major League Baseball thoroughly investigated the allegations and considers the matter closed.

http://tl.gd/kvoua8

Goodell-esque

Edited by Van Everyman, 08 February 2013 - 02:49 PM.

[drbretto]

Curiously vague? What else are you expecting them to say?

[Van Everyman]

Well, is there some reason they aren't including any details at all? Like, "There was an allegation by a player that a member of the Boston organization had suggested he use performance enhancing drugs. It was not clear whether said member was saying this in jest. After a thorough investigation, MLB decided there was no substance to the allegation and considers the matter closed "

Instead, their response reads like some lawyer wrote it. Why? It's just an investigation.

[JimBoSox9]

Well, I mean, obviously a lawyer wrote it. Or, at the very least, edited and reviewed what a PR guy wrote. PEDs have massive liability potential for leagues and teams. Their (hyperbole alert) #1 PED concern is that today's statement is tomorrow's evidence. This is what they pay in-house consul for.

[riboflav]

Word is Schilling made up the whole thing from the beginning because he had a bad history with Mike Reinold on the medical staff:

 

http://espn.go.com/b...ess-sources-say

[reggiecleveland]

Schilling really tests the "separation of on the field and off the field" rule I have about being a sport fan. I mean he was fucking great and the bloody sock game should make him bullet proof, but little by little he tarnishes his legacy with his big mouth.

[Van Everyman]

Word is Schilling made up the whole thing from the beginning because he had a bad history with Mike Reinold on the medical staff:

http://espn.go.com/b...ess-sources-say

I didn't read that article quite the same way. More like, nobody said anything to back up Schilling. Big difference. Plus, it sounds like a lot of people didn't like Reinold.

[mt8thsw9th]

It could also read like Schilling didn't like the guy so he made up a story to get him fired. Perhaps it happened, but I'm not sure what bringing this alleged story up does other than make Curt the center of media attention for a couple of weeks.

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Wasn't he asked directly by Cowherd and answered honestly? Should he start lying to avoid being a topic of discussion? I know he's a blowhard sometimes but I don't see what he did wrong here. I guess people would prefer he call them out by name and ruin any careers they might have left, so that we have more to discuss. This was an old story, he answered a direct question and was brief and vague, not seeing the need to go into details. Who cares who it was other than for gossip.

[Average Reds]

Wasn't he asked directly by Cowherd and answered honestly? Should he start lying to avoid being a topic of discussion? I know he's a blowhard sometimes but I don't see what he did wrong here. I guess people would prefer he call them out by name and ruin any careers they might have left, so that we have more to discuss. This was an old story, he answered a direct question and was brief and vague, not seeing the need to go into details. Who cares who it was other than for gossip.

 

 

No, he did not answer honestly.

 

Schilling's comments left the clear impression that the reason the unnamed individual was no longer with the team was because his allegations were substantiated.  We now know that not only was no action taken against the individual in question, but the reason that no action could be taken was that Schilling was less than forthright with MLB investigators.

 

There is a pattern with Curt - he shoots his mouth off and then, when things get real, he backs down.  So he talks about how widespread PEDs are by saying that he has to watch out when patting guys in the ass because this is where they inject themselves, and then when he gets called before a Congressional panel because of his comments, his story dissolves into mush, because, you know, people weren't supposed to take him literally - it was just a story he was telling to make a point. 

 

I'll bet anything that Schilling simply assumed he could make his point and would be immune from criticism if he just didn't identify the person. But because of how the actual incident played out. he obviously pissed off someone at MLB headquarters enough for them to leak not only the name, but the fact that no action was taken on Schilling's allegations because he couldn't back them up.

 

In the world of professional sports, the combination of incredible talent, hard work and sheer will bordering on obscene arrogance can allow an athlete to succeed in the face of incredible odds.  However, in the reality-based world outside of professional sports these traits will often lead you to lurch from disaster to disaster. Given the events of the past year, I am astonished to realize that this is a lesson that Curt Schilling is still learning.