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Blackberry 10


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#1 Bleedred

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:18 AM

I made the leap to the Samsung Galaxy III this fall after being a blackberry user for about 10 years. I was told it was a massive uprgade, great phone, etc. Here's the problem. In my law practice, I keep "Transaction Folders" for every deal I work on, which are saved in Outlook. I literally have about 20,000 folders (subfolders in various transactions). Email with my blackberry was never a problem, but with the Galaxy III and Iphone, the number of folders I have and the emails contained therein basically either crash the email system on the phone (Iphone) or cause it to work so slowly as to be useless (the Galaxy III). My IT department tells me it's because when Android or Iphone searches through emails, it literally searches in every outlook folder (i.e 20,000). Whereas the blackberry searches the emails in the Inbox only (i.e. typically only 30-50). This seems preposterous to me, but people much smarter and more technically savvy say it is so.

The IT department is proposing to move all of my folders out of Outlook and into Deskcite to solve the problem, but they cannot be sure it will do the trick. I may have to dump the Galaxy III and buy a Blackberry to get my email to function correctly.

So.....when the hell is the Blackberry 10 going to become available? Oh, and thoughts on my email dilemna are welcome.

#2 jayhoz


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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

Where do these 20,000 folders live?  Are they subfolders in your inbox?  Do you need access to them from the phone?



#3 Bergs

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

Launch is Jan 30. I've played with the new device/OS and it's pretty damned awesome.



#4 Bleedred

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

 

Where do these 20,000 folders live?  Are they subfolders in your inbox?  Do you need access to them from the phone?

 

Yes, they are subfolders in my inbox.

#5 jayhoz


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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

I use a company mandated email App on my GSIII called Touchdown from Nitrodesk.  I can choose not to sync Inbox subfolders to my phone.  I can also choose how far back in time I want to sync (1 day, 1 month, All, etc).

 

The nice thing is even if you don't sync all the emails to the phone you can still search the server for an email.  You would be able to search your subfolders from the phone if you needed something.



#6 Bleedred

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:09 PM

I use a company mandated email App on my GSIII called Touchdown from Nitrodesk.  I can choose not to sync Inbox subfolders to my phone.  I can also choose how far back in time I want to sync (1 day, 1 month, All, etc).
 
The nice thing is even if you don't sync all the emails to the phone you can still search the server for an email.  You would be able to search your subfolders from the phone if you needed something.


thanks. I forwarded this to my IT guys.

#7 Rudi Fingers

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:29 PM

Also ask your IT department if they are planning to move to BES (Blackberry Enterprise Server) 10.  They do not have to move, as BlackBerry 10 devices, if used at companies that don't have a BES, also support the same Microsoft ActiveSync protocol that iPhones and Android devices use to get your Outlook/Exchange email.

 

Why does this matter?  If they don't move to BES 10, you *might* run into the same folder search limitations even if you get one of the Blackberry 10 phones.  BES 10 itself uses ActiveSync, but in a unique way  And Blackberry 10 phones won't work with older versions of BES (5 or older).

 

I still use a Blackberry 9900 to this day for a phone because nothing can touch it with the sheer volume of e-mails I handle in a day.  (And yes, I also use a Nexus 7 tablet as an alternate way to handle my messages on the go, but it's less efficient for me). 



#8 Bleedred

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:47 PM

MY IT department's response:

Thats what we were attempting to try, but I think the problem was that Touchdown considers the inbox to be just another folder to synchronize. It wanted to list it alongside all the other folders during the initial setup. We can certainly give it a try again if you like? We might be able to stop it from populating the folder list and just select the inbox(?).

#9 jayhoz


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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:29 PM

MY IT department's response:

Thats what we were attempting to try, but I think the problem was that Touchdown considers the inbox to be just another folder to synchronize. It wanted to list it alongside all the other folders during the initial setup. We can certainly give it a try again if you like? We might be able to stop it from populating the folder list and just select the inbox(?).

On my phone from the inbox I choose Menu>More>Choose Folders.  From there I can independently select whether to sync the Inbox and the subfolders in the inbox.



#10 wade boggs chicken dinner


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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:08 PM

You really have 20,000 subfolders in your inbox?  That must take up mucho mucho GBs of space on your server.  If you have a bunch of attys in your firm doing the same thing, that simply wouldn't be cost effective.

 

One way to solve this problem is by moving your transaction folders to .pst files.  You can save the .pst files on your c drive and then open them when you need them.  One thing to note (assuming you are running an old version of windows) - .pst files blow up at 2 GBs so you want to make sure your .pst file doesn't come close to that size.

 

Everything I've heard says that BB10 is going to be right cool, although I've not heard how they've solved the QNX battery issue.  Hopefully, the launch will be good because I really miss my BB.  But I am somewhat skeptical because BB has gotten in a habit of screwing things up for the last few years.  For example, the Storm was not a well developed concept.

 

Keyboard version is supposed to come out in March if that matters.



#11 NortheasternPJ


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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:27 PM

Can I pay you to sort my inbox into subfolders? I have 35,000 in my Inbox right now I've been meaning to sort.



#12 teddykgb

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:31 PM

yeah, i don't think the answer here is for your IT departmetn to continue to enable your absolutely ridiculous "system"



#13 Bleedred

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

 

yeah, i don't think the answer here is for your IT departmetn to continue to enable your absolutely ridiculous "system"



My "ridiculous" system is the envy of the entire IT department and colleagues. The reason I have so many subfolders is that I have 10 years of transactions located in outlook. That's approximately 250 transactions (real estate loans, acquisitions, dispositions, leases, other) all with anywhere from 15-150 subfolders apiece (correspondence, P&S, Access Agreement, UCC, Title, Survey, Leases, Service contracts, you get the gist). The benefit of this system is two-fold. First, whenever a client calls about a prior deal, I can almost instantly recall a document, correspondence, issue, etc. Clients are very impressed. Second, I inevitably borrow concepts from prior deals to incorporate into new deals. Pulling those documents or concepts up in short order makes my practive very efficient.

The problem is, of course, that it doesn't play well with android or Iphone devices.I've told the IT department I'm willing to move all of the material, provided it can be recalled similarly. They are working on that. I never once had a problem with my blackberry, and if going back to blackberry will solve the problem, that's what I plan to do.

#14 wilked

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:00 PM

I think this why labels are >>> folders...



#15 mt8thsw9th


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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

The company that I recently left had tens of thousands of projects that I could easily access contract info, POs, billing information, correspondence, et cetera very quickly, as could anyone who had access to the folders. All you're doing by storing everything in your email account is chaining yourself (and your company) to this personal filing practice. Frankly it would drive me nuts when people would do this.

There has to be a better way of doing this. Is something like Google Drive or Box out of the question?

#16 Bleedred

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

 

The company that I recently left had tens of thousands of projects that I could easily access contract info, POs, billing information, correspondence, et cetera very quickly, as could anyone who had access to the folders. All you're doing by storing everything in your email account is chaining yourself (and your company) to this personal filing practice. Frankly it would drive me nuts when people would do this.

There has to be a better way of doing this. Is something like Google Drive or Box out of the question?


They're working on it. Eventually, it's all going to be moved out of outlook other than what is less than 90 days old

#17 mt8thsw9th


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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:11 PM

Here's the new phone, the Z10. It kind of looks like a mix of the iPhone 5 and Touchwiz.

 

rim-2013-01-24-600-12.jpg

 

Granted the the form factor wouldn't have been the same, but this seems like they're finally catching up with what they should have done in 2008 with the Storm. Unfortunately it's 2013, so it may be too little, too late.



#18 SoxScout


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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

That looks like a ludicrous amount of bezel.



#19 Montana Fan


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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:21 PM

One with a physical keyboard is coming out in the Spring. I'm a mark.

#20 Blacken


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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:54 AM

The reviews are deservedly positive. It is better than anyone really expected. But it's not enough and it won't matter. Some thoughts:

 

-Remarkably full-featured for a first release; they don't have any big gaps like iOS and Android did on release (and for years later). Which is to their credit--they realized they probably won't get a second one. But I don't think it's good enough to make people care. iOS and Android had missing features on release, and even up until one or two years ago. They've fixed that, so being "just on the trailing edge" probably isn't, in all likelihood, going to really turn heads.

 

-The Z10 is solid. I think it's ugly, but it's well-made.

 

-The iconography and visual trim will impress tasteless people. Too much gloss, too many gradients.

 

-The keyboard is interesting. I didn't say better; Swype and SwiftKey are both better at predicting what I'm going to write even on a bare phone. But interesting, and better than the iPhone's. They seem bound and determined to sabotage it, however, with the Q10. Putting out the Q10 seems like a mistake due to fragmentation in the places where Android largely isn't fragmented (screen dimensions) and catering to a shrinking audience of Luddites. The touch keyboard has won because it's more useful to more people and while I'm sure they'll sell some Q10's, I have trouble seeing it be worth it to them in the long term because now you've got the Android QVGA/HVGA problem again--but nobody bought Android QVGA phones, so nobody had to worry about their apps working with them. Apple can give developers the finger because everyone wants to release on Apple. BlackBerry does not have that luxury. If making good apps for your platform is too hard, people will either make half-assed apps or no apps at all. And the built-in applications are not good enough to carry the platform.

 

-The app store is a tragicomedy. Android has a quality problem, but the quantity means that there are enough gems to get you by. The BB10 app store has neither quantity nor quality as of yet and there's a question of whether anyone will bother because of the tiny platform share. (I've tried to use the Android-for-BB10 runtime. I have trouble seeing anyone bother. It's lousy unless you already wrote your app in C++, which like twelve people, myself included, did.)

 

-BBM is still neat, but it's not really better than iMessage on iOS or WhatsApp on iOS and Android (or imo.im if your friends are GTalk users). Casualty of time. And its in-network features are limited the none people that will buy BB10 devices, so you've got to factor that in--I'd bet there are more WhatsApp users than there will be BB10 users by 2014. It isn't a killer app.

 

-Too expensive. RIMberry is not really fighting against the iPhone, they're fighting against Android, whose market share used to be theirs. You can get a Nexus or GS3 for cheaper on-contract and, as usual, the off-contract price is larcenous.

 

 

Better than WP8? Probably. Better than anyone who matters? Nope. If this came out during the Android 2.x era I'd probably be all over this, but as-is, no. Too little, too late.


Edited by Blacken, 02 February 2013 - 02:58 AM.


#21 crow216


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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:19 AM

I think the reaction of "so-what" is warranted. I don't necessarily blame it on BB, per say. The issue I see is that I find it incredibly hard to visualize the next evolutionary step that any of the manufacturers can take. In a way, I don't think there is anything BB could have done to impress people...err me. The smartphone hardware and software is so refined at this point with Android and Apple that just being different and/or tweaking one or two features doesn't matter. There isn't a sane person out there who is going to ditch their iPhone or SG3 because of "the hub." Even if BB launched with an equal amount of apps as Android, I don't think it would make a difference. 

 

One other thing that is going to kill them is that people have to wait 2+ months to buy this thing. Apple has perfected the art of impulse pre-order. In the meantime, anyone who wants the z10 is going to see the SG4, iPhone 5s/6 rumors, and 20 other amazing android devices to get excited about. Can't wait for the marketing blitz.



#22 behindthepen


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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

Plus out of the gate there is not enterprise support.  One firm I know sent out an email to its staff telling them NOT to buy new BB because they can't support it.  And I haven't heard of Good being offered on BB10 either, so you can't BYOD it.

 

There was one review that really complained about the effectiveness of the touchscreen, has anyone had issues with that?



#23 NHbeau


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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:59 PM

 I checked one out pretty closely and have to say it's better than I expected them to come up with. I won't be buying one even though I was a die hard crackberry user for ages. My issues stem from two simple things. I can get a slideout qwerty keyboard on any number of android devices (thank god)and have my keyboard plus screen real estate and at this point i'm far to invested in android apps to make the change. Industrial grade email is no longer a "perk" i need as I have learned to get around the problem at this point. Sorry RIM.



#24 wade boggs chicken dinner


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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:51 PM

Plus out of the gate there is not enterprise support.  One firm I know sent out an email to its staff telling them NOT to buy new BB because they can't support it.  And I haven't heard of Good being offered on BB10 either, so you can't BYOD it.

 

There was one review that really complained about the effectiveness of the touchscreen, has anyone had issues with that?

 

I think a lot of businesses are going to have to think really hard about upgrading to BES 10, and if they end up not doing it, I think BB has no chance.

 

From what I have been seeing, BB10 seems like a decent phone but much too little too late.  I think the problem is that BB is the only company other than Apple that has to concentrate on hardware plus operating system, and then they have BES on top of that.  Seems like it's much too much for one company - unless you happen to have a multi-year head start like Apple.

 

Sad.  Really miss the BB keyboard.



#25 NortheasternPJ


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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:06 PM

Companies have been ditching their current BES for the last 12-24 months, who the hell is going to buy a new BES and support it?



#26 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:22 PM

I installed the server components of BES 10 last week (60 day free trial).  Basically, I have to keep my BES 5 server running for legacy handsets, and have a separate BES 10 server for new ones.  There's also a module for mobile device management of iPhones and Androids.  The 3 modules can be tied together in a single interface for activating and managing devices, but they still have to be installed/managed/supported separately.

 

We're switching service providers this month, and setting up AirWatch for MDM.  Employees have the choice of an iPhone 4S (free) or 5 ($100 charge), Galaxy S III ($100), or current (non BB 10) Blackberry (free).  So far 60 people have chosen their phone, only 2 have gone for the BlackBerry.  I'm guessing we will keep our BES server running until our maintenance contract runs out, then shut it down.



#27 behindthepen


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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

so is BB's MDM capable of doing what Airwatch or Sybase does, or is it just a poor substitute?

#28 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

It seems to have similar functionality (remote wipe, require passcodes, push out profiles, etc.) but it feels clunkier than AirWatch.  Enrollment of devices was a bit more complex on the BlackBerry, as I had to install the agent and do the configuration on the handheld, while on AirWatch the user can simply go to a website and log in after the agent is installed, and the config happens automatically.

 

BB10 seems like it could be a decent solution for companies that want to continue to use BlackBerry phones but have some management capabilities of corporate iPads.  I'm guessing a lot of companies will do what we are doing, though, and use this as an excuse to dump BlackBerry and switch to iPhones/Androids and a MDM solution.



#29 NortheasternPJ


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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

It seems to have similar functionality (remote wipe, require passcodes, push out profiles, etc.) but it feels clunkier than AirWatch.  Enrollment of devices was a bit more complex on the BlackBerry, as I had to install the agent and do the configuration on the handheld, while on AirWatch the user can simply go to a website and log in after the agent is installed, and the config happens automatically.

 

BB10 seems like it could be a decent solution for companies that want to continue to use BlackBerry phones but have some management capabilities of corporate iPads.  I'm guessing a lot of companies will do what we are doing, though, and use this as an excuse to dump BlackBerry and switch to iPhones/Androids and a MDM solution.

 

One of RIM's big failings, I know make a list, is they should have bought an MDM vendor and put that functionality in BES a couple years ago. It would have killed the MDM market completely since everyone already had a BES. 



#30 twibnotes


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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:13 AM

I bought the new Q10 and really like it for the most part, but I have identified an issue that hopefully a Z10 user has figured out: I can't read sosh. The type is tiny and when you switch to "reader" mode, it just hones in on one post, and you can't navigate up and down the page. My old berry had a "column width" setting that enabled you to read a blog like sosh quite easily.

Has anyone experienced, or better yet resolved, this issue?

#31 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:19 AM

I just got a Q10 and I am not sure if I am going to keep it. I LOVE the key board, but really miss the track pad. I had not realized how handy it was to not have to reach al over the screen to click on things.

I also find that it is just a little too wide for my hand...hate that the "back" arrow is located all the way across from my thumb for a right handed phone user.

#32 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:52 AM

Well, I brought it back with heavy heart. The three main flaws were; 1. Lack of track pad, 2. Very thin app selection and 3. Horrible placement of the powere button.

I did just totally love the keyboard.

#33 wade boggs chicken dinner


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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:38 AM

Interesting that BB tanks and no one posts about. 

 

However - I don't know anything about anything so I'm interested in hearing more about BES and whether it is the grand MDM solution that BB is marketing it to be.  Seems like if BB lives at all, it will not be as a devices company.

 

Which, quite frankly, is rather sad to me.
 



#34 teddykgb

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:06 PM

Well, it used to be.  BB really missed a trick when Apple released the iPhone and Google quickly adapted android.  They were in the pole position and tried to use their BES as a weapon against those platforms, locking them out in order to try to freeze those devices out of the enterprise, which had always been RIM's market.  For a while, it really worked, but eventually the iPad, in particular, did them in.  In my experience, you can't get those things out of the hands of the Sales Force at various companies, the instant on, cellular connectivity, and battery life combo is pretty powerful, plus salesmen just weren't shy about pushing for them.  Eventually, they creeped into the enterprise and Apple started figuring out an ok-ish Enteprise connectivity model that other vendors were all too happy to enhance and fill the gaps in.  End result is that a lot of the Blackberry zealots in the enterprise either learned a new religion or were pushed out and other MDM solutions were setup, like Air Watch, but really quite a few popped up.  Now these companies have a foothold in the enterprise and are already being used to manage at least Apple devices.  I don't know if RIM can add enough to BES to bring these people back, but my gut kind of doubts it.

 

In the end, there are still a ton of people with on prem BES servers who are still not yet on BYOD or iOS permitted policies.  BB may at this point be able to stop the bleeding with these shops by really enhancing what was always their killer product -- BES.  But I have a hard time believing the cat isn't more or less out of the bag



#35 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:54 AM

The problem is that BES 10 is not an upgrade to BES 5, it's a complete new install.  If you want to run both old and new BB handsets, you need to run both a BES 5 and BES 10 server.  Once we figured that out a few months ago, there was really no competitive advantage to keeping the BES over switching to another MDM provider.  We implemented AirWatch and let everyone choose an iPhone or Galaxy S3 (or an S4, after they came out).  I have 3 users left on the BES 5 server, and I can't wait to shut it off.






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