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The Pats Since Kraft Bought the Team


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#1 TheoShmeo


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:50 PM

I received this content by e-mail yesterday, posted it in the December-January thread and in retrospect think that it couldn't hurt to start a new thread (per Skrub's frequent admonitions).

In any event, enjoy these facts:

TOTAL VICTORIES SINCE 1994 (Regular Season)
New England Patriots .........................................205
Green Bay Packers................................................... 196
Pittsburgh Steelers .................................................. 192
Indianapolis Colts .................................................... 183

TOTAL VICTORIES SINCE 1994 (Incl. Postseason)
New England Patriots .........................................224
Green Bay Packers................................................... 211
Pittsburgh Steelers .................................................. 209
Indianapolis Colts .................................................... 194
Denver Broncos ....................................................... 187
Philadelphia Eagles .................................................. 177

WINNING PERCENTAGE SINCE 1994 (Incl. Postseason)
Team W L T Pct.
New England Patriots 224 109 0 .673
Green Bay Packers 211 119 0 .639
Pittsburgh Steelers 209 121 1 .633
Indianapolis Colts 194 133 0 .593
Denver Broncos 187 132 0 .586
Philadelphia Eagles 177 147 2 .546
New York Giants 171 148 1 .536

SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONSHIPS SINCE 1994
New England Patriots............................................ 3
Green Bay…………………………………….. ........................... 2
Pittsburgh Steelers…………………………………….. ............... 2
Denver Broncos ........................................................... 2
N.Y. Giants .. .............................................................. 2
7 Teams ...... .............................................................. 1

CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS SINCE 1994
New England Patriots............................................ 6
Pittsburgh Steelers ...................................................... 4
Green Bay Packers ...................................................... 3
New York Giants.......................................................... 3
Denver Broncos ........................................................... 2
St. Louis Rams ............................................................ 2
Indianapolis Colts ........................................................ 2
14 Teams .... .............................................................. 1

DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIPS SINCE 1994
New England Patriots ............................................ 12
Pittsburgh Steelers ...................................................... 10
Green Bay Packers ........................................................ 9
Indianapolis Colts .......................................................... 8

PLAYOFF VICTORIES SINCE 1994
New England Patriots ............................................ 19
Pittsburgh Steelers ...................................................... 17
Green Bay Packers ...................................................... 15
Philadelphia Eagles…………………………………………………… 11
Indianapolis Colts ........................................................ 11

PLAYOFF GAMES PLAYED SINCE 1994
New England Patriots............................................ 29
Pittsburgh Steelers .......................................................27
Green Bay Packers .......................................................26
Indianapolis Colts .........................................................23
Philadelphia Eagles .......................................................22
Baltimore Ravens .........................................................17

PLAYOFF SEASONS SINCE 1994
New England Patriots ............................................ 14
Green Bay Packers ...................................................... 14
Indianapolis Colts ........................................................ 14
Pittsburgh Steelers ...................................................... 12
Philadelphia Eagles ...................................................... 11
Minnesota Vikings........................................................ 10
Baltimore Ravens .......................................................... 9
Dallas Cowboys ............................................................. 9
Denver Broncos ............................................................. 9
San Francisco 49ers ....................................................... 9

PLAYOFF WINNING PERCENTAGE SINCE 1994
Team W L Pct.
New England Patriots ..............19....... 10 .................. .655
Pittsburgh Steelers ....................... 17 ....... 10 .................... .630
New York Giants........................... 10 ......... 6 .................... .625
Arizona Cardinals ........................... 5 ......... 3 .................. . .625
Denver Broncos .............................. 9 ......... 6 ................... .600
New Orleans Saints ........................ 6 ......... 4 .................... .600
Carolina Panthers ........................... 6 ......... 4 .................... .600
New Baltimore Ravens .................. 10 ......... 7 ................... .588

MOST PRO BOWLERS DRAFTED SINCE 1994
Rank Team Players
1. New England 20
2. Green Bay 19
3. Pittsburgh 18

#2 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

If you're not going to include BB's substantial lead in "husbands cuckolded" then this chart is useless. /berry

#3 jacklamabe65


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

Doesn't make you long at all for the Billy Sullivan years. Kraft deserves all of the accolades that come his way - that's for sure.

#4 Dan to Theo to Ben


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

If you're not going to include BB's substantial lead in "husbands cuckolded" then this chart is useless. /berry


That's not what Berry would say. Berry would say

"You didn't include the list of playoff losses since 1994"

Which one would then counter with, CCG losses.

#5 lostjumper

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:44 PM

That's an amazing list. We have much to be thankful for, and Kraft deserves alot of accolades. More astounding is when you look at the players. There's one definite hall-of-famer in Brady. Curtis Martin is another HoF'er and was here from 94-97, and maybe there are some guys who get in later such as Rodney Harrison, but these teams weren't stacked with hall of famers. They had really good coaching and stability up at the top.

#6 SeanBerry


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:45 PM

Very impressive list.

#7 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:49 PM

Very impressive list.


Yes, although I'd be curious to see how the list would look if it started in 2000 with the BB era. There was a substantial chance that post-Pete Carroll that things could have gone down the tubes once again if Kraft hadn't made a good hire for HC and football operations.

#8 TheWalthamKid

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

I'd like to see a list from 2007 till now to pull up anytime someone credits the Pats success to Spygate. I know those arguments that all of the Patriots success was derived exclusively from spying on other teams are ludicrous, but there are all those haters out there. We need a chart to pull up just to easily secure victory.

#9 TheoShmeo


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

I'd like to see a list from 2007 till now to pull up anytime someone credits the Pats success to Spygate. I know those arguments that all of the Patriots success was derived exclusively from spying on other teams are ludicrous, but there are all those haters out there. We need a chart to pull up just to easily secure victory.

Until the Pats win another Lombardi, the haters will keep spewing this stuff. Even if the Pats do win it all, it will not necessarily end. But the arguments will be even harder to sustain.

Suffice to say, though I would like to see that chart too, that the Pats' regular season winning percentage post-SpyGate is higher than it was when they were "cheating."

#10 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

Until the Pats win another Lombardi, the haters will keep spewing this stuff. Even if the Pats do win it all, it will not necessarily end. But the arguments will be even harder to sustain.

Suffice to say, though I would like to see that chart too, that the Pats' regular season winning percentage post-SpyGate is higher than it was when they were "cheating."


In the BB era, and assuming "Spygate" to have ended in week 1 of the 2007 season:

75-37, .669 %
12-2 postseason

76-20, .792 %
4-4 postseason

The usual argument is that the Pats are 0-2 in Super Bowls since Spygate, which is retarded on the very face of it, as if losing 2 SBs by a total of 7 points is somehow a huge indictment of a team that won 3 SBs by a total of 9 point.s But then people are stupid in general.

#11 Mystic Merlin


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:19 PM

The cameras only kick in during Super Bowls, and their magic is subtle. They ensure you get the ball last with a plausible chance of scoring. Without them, the other team will get that shot.

#12 mt8thsw9th


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

That's not what Berry would say. Berry would say

"You didn't include the list of playoff losses since 1994"

Which one would then counter with, CCG losses.


How is it you've been a member for less than a month, and you already know the lore of Berry?

His legend is strong, it appears.

#13 There is no Rev


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:37 PM

Yes, although I'd be curious to see how the list would look if it started in 2000 with the BB era. There was a substantial chance that post-Pete Carroll that things could have gone down the tubes once again if Kraft hadn't made a good hire for HC and football operations.


Does Belichick come to New England if Kraft isn't owner? Remember: he had the Jets HC job.


How is it you've been a member for less than a month, and you already know the lore of Berry?

His legend is strong, it appears.


You are spooky sometimes. Well done.

#14 bakahump

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

1994 was not only the Beginning of the "Kraft Era" but also the "Salary Cap Era".

These numbers are INCREDIBLE when you consider they happened during a time when the league was designed to be "more Equal" (via the Cap).

#15 dcmissle


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

Does Belichick come to New England if Kraft isn't owner? Remember: he had the Jets HC job.




You are spooky sometimes. Well done.


For a minute.

You'll recall how that played out. Kraft wanted BB; Parcells/Tanny did their NY wiseguy thing and invoked the provision in BB's contract that made him NYJ HC automatically.

Word was that Parcells was on the cusp of Billy Beane type manuevering -- pulling strings from the executive suite with BB as the nominal HC -- and BB wanted no part of that.

Interesting question b/c BB then was not too different than McDaniels now, though older: a HC flameout in his rear view mirror with probably only one other chance left.

Edited by dcmissle, 04 January 2013 - 03:46 PM.


#16 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

Does Belichick come to New England if Kraft isn't owner? Remember: he had the Jets HC job.


No.

#17 MentalDisabldLst


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

That's an amazing list. We have much to be thankful for, and Kraft deserves alot of accolades. More astounding is when you look at the players. There's one definite hall-of-famer in Brady. Curtis Martin is another HoF'er and was here from 94-97, and maybe there are some guys who get in later such as Rodney Harrison, but these teams weren't stacked with hall of famers. They had really good coaching and stability up at the top.


Randy Moss is a surefire HOFer with his most memorable season here (though probably rightly more identified with MIN). Seymour and perhaps Wilfork have HOF potential. McGinest, Bruschi and Vrabel probably not, but you wouldn't be a moron for arguing their case.

So, "stacked with hall-of-famers", no, but we've had plenty of top-of-league talent over the years. Without Brady, of course, none of it matters.

#18 Bucknahs Bum Ankle


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

Vinatieri has a shot if any kicker does.

#19 Ralphwiggum

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:08 PM

Ty Law is borderline as well.

#20 Laser Show

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:13 PM

I'm not a big football history guy, but with the numbers Welker has put up since coming to NE, doesn't he merit some HOF conversation as well?

Edited by Laser Show, 04 January 2013 - 04:13 PM.


#21 Dogman2


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:19 PM

I think Brady has a shot too.

#22 BannedbyNYYFans.com

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:19 PM

Does Belichick come to New England if Kraft isn't owner? Remember: he had the Jets HC job.


I remember reading or hearing that on the flight home from SB XXXI, Belichick and Kraft sat next to each other. The two had a long discussion about the team and the NFL, something they only did because Parcells elected to fly back separately in order to finalize his Jets deal. It was on this flight when the two realized they might be a good fit for each other in the future - or at least according to the Patriot owner. Kraft has since said it was during that discussion that he believed Belichick would make an excellent NFL coach despite what had happened in Cleveland. I think Belichick must have at least gained some respect/admiration for Kraft too during the flight from New Orleans to New England.

Edited by BannedbyNYYFans.com, 04 January 2013 - 04:23 PM.


#23 Grimace-HS

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:09 PM

...............
Interesting question b/c BB then was not too different than McDaniels now, though older: a HC flameout in his rear view mirror with probably only one other chance left.


I actually vividly recall sitting at work and seeing that BB was going to be hired and being pretty unhappy; IIRC, I had actually wanted Tom Donahoe as GM and can't remember who I wanted as coach...I guess it goes to show what I know, but also how much skepticism there was over BB at first.

Also, in that list another very common denominator is the QB position. There are always the times when a defense will carry a team to a Super Bowl (e.g., Parcells' Giants; Ravens), or a QB will have a hot stretch (e.g., Redskins' Doug Williams), but to really be consistently up there these teams were pretty successful (or fortunate) in landing solid QB's. The Packers had an overall mix of defense and offense, but had Favre and now Discount Doublecheck; the Steelers are definitely more defense-oriented, but still generally had consistency at that position; and most of the Colts' success was during the Manning era. I know that Kraft inherited Bledsoe in his second season, but really we've been very fortunate to have had Bledsoe and now Brady for the past 20 seasons. Recall that Bledsoe was one of the top QB's in the league for a good stretch of time in the 90s.

All in all, Kraft had the foresight to lock the Pats into a stadium lease, saved the team from moving (I also recall that announcement like it was yesterday...my friends still make fun of me for suggesting back then that interested MA residents contribute $100 to buy the team and prevent them from moving, which shows how close they were to being gone...I even called our local House Representative Walter Defilipi panicking about the move and the Megaplex...he actually called me back and talked Pats with me for awhile), learned as an owner to have the right organizational pieces in place (after the whole "cooking dinner but not shopping for the groceries" fiasco), and have them in position to continue for the foreseeable future. Out of all of our local team owners, the Kraft family is easily the best I've seen for this amount of time.

#24 Sportsbstn

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:34 PM

Not a bad return on investment for Kraft either:

1994 Purchase price: $172 million
2012 Estimated Value: $1.635 billion

#25 Sille Skrub

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:19 PM

Thanks for the new thread!

#26 Homar

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:45 PM

Much is rightly made of BB's accomplishments during the salary cap era. The old pattern, as seen in all previous Super Bowl-era dynasties, was to bring together a super team, and then hang onto everyone. Decline came only when the core became too old to compete any more. We see this in Green Bay of the 1960s, Pittsburgh in the 1970s, San Francisco and Dallas in the 1980s and 1990s. Because there was no cap, the veterans could be retained, and retained, and retained, simply by paying them more and more. But eventually this pattern comes to an end. It doesn't matter if you can continue pay enough to retain your franchise players if they're no longer physically able to compete.

What the advent of the salary cap did was to create a situation in which value changed. It no longer made sense to retain even a great core at great expense, because you couldn't surround the core with a sufficient supporting cast any longer and still be under the cap. Depth became more important; a few bright stars were revealed to be insufficient when paying them top dollar meant a huge drop off in quality for the remaining 30+ players on any roster. Our friends the J-E-T-S Jets, Jets, Jets are a perfect example. Their top three or four players are as good as anyone's: with the exception of Brady arguably better than the three or four best Patriots. But the drop to the rest of their team is huge; they aren't deep and they aren't talented beneath the level of the very best players.

Part of the genius of BB is that he recognized early that with a hard salary cap, paying stars star money is an inefficient use of resources. It's better to spread the wealth widely, identifying players that create deep depth. Seymour can command big money? Turn him into a draft pick and trust your depth. This is why the Pats have so few obvious Hall of Famer's. With avery few exceptions they're all depth players, which is the key to their domination of the salary cap era. BB has exploited as no one else the change in value imposed by the salary cap. And he has three rings and more than a decade of unparalleled success as a result.

It is genius. And we've been it's witnesses. What a privilege.

#27 E5 Yaz


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:48 PM

The usual argument is that the Pats are 0-2 in Super Bowls since Spygate, which is retarded on the very face of it, as if losing 2 SBs by a total of 7 points is somehow a huge indictment of a team that won 3 SBs by a total of 9 point.s But then people are stupid in general.



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