250 replies to this topic

[Harry Hooper]

 

 

And Tito praised Roberts for coming cold off the bench and being ready to run his fastest.

 

Red Sox fans owe a debt of gratitude to Maury Wills. He coached Roberts on his way up and stressed some invaluable tips on "How to steal a base when they know you're going."

[scotian1]

How much responsibility, if any, does Francona admit to for what happened in 2011?

[Jordu]

Here is why I bought the book: On the Dave Roberts steal, Shaughnessy notes that Brad Mills clocked Posada's POP time at 1.79 seconds. Posada is not known for his agility but that was the fastest POP time Mills had recorded to that point.

I bought book for that kind of stuff, too, and there just isn't enough of it. Shaughnessy just doesn't know (or care) enough about inside baseball to ask Francona baseball questions.

It's a clunky read. Serviceable but uninspired writing. You can tell this book was ground out in a hurry.

The book, though, does have its charms. The section on Francona's upbringing was well done and interesting. The stuff on Manny was grimly funny. Francona's love of the game, and the shit he'll put up with and put his mind & body through for that love, is clear and contagious.

Shaughnessy does have enough sense to quote Francona extensively, and he comes across as a smart, self-aware, funny guy who nevertheless has a healthy ego and is quick to perceive a slight.

Scotia, Francona assigns himself no more and no less blame for 2011 in the book than he did in talking to the media when it happened. Which is fine by me -- I always thought he was honest and forthright back in those dark days.

As we should have known, the "juiciest" stuff in the book all came out in the weeks before the pub date.

I'm not sorry I read it, but I didn't learn much and was left thinking about the book it could have been with more time and care.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Here's a photo of Tito in the Houghton-Harcourt offices yesterday signing 250 books in an hour to be used for promo and what not. He apparently took one signed copy down to give to a guy at the Tannery, who once gave him a free pair of shoes. Crossing my fingers for a copy for my birthday:

 

[Average Reds]

How much responsibility, if any, does Francona admit to for what happened in 2011?

 

Francona took full responsibility at the time.  And after he parted ways with the Sox, he was then smeared in the press.  What more do you want from him?

 

I guess this is my way of saying that your question strikes me as ridiculous.

[kevlog]

Here's a photo of Tito in the Houghton-Harcourt offices yesterday signing 250 books in an hour to be used for promo and what not. He apparently took one signed copy down to give to a guy at the Tannery, who once gave him a free pair of shoes. Crossing my fingers for a copy for my birthday:

 

 

I was lucky enough to get one of the leftover sandwiches after he was done.   Yeah, it's the little things sometimes......the hummus was to die for.

[Vermonter At Large]

I'll buy it, but would prefer that it had been ghost-written with David Laurila or Mark Armour and published by Maple Street Press.

[Corsi]

The line for his signing at the Pru today:

 

[Rudy Pemberton]

When does Bobby Valentine's book come out? (And what would the title be? Valentine: The Red Sox Months?)

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 25 January 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[Al Zarilla]

When does Bobby Valentine's book come out? (And what would the title be? Valentine: The Red Sox Months?)

When my eye hit your post, for a split second I saw Red Sox Rigor Mortis. 

[JimBoSox9]

Francona signs and writes a note for Pedro while Edes tries to catch a glimpse:

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/b...ecial-assistant

Edited by JimBoSox9, 25 January 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[scotian1]

I echo the sentiments of Kirk Minihane in this piece he did for the WEEI website. http://www.weei.com/...y-himself-blame

[The Allented Mr Ripley]

Christ, you're a pussy.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I echo the sentiments of Kirk Minihane in this piece he did for the WEEI website. http://www.weei.com/...y-himself-blame

Which sentiments would those be? I'm honestly curious. Minihane doesn't seem to have an actual thesis in there anywhere. He says (or the headline does) that Tito has only himself to blame - but Tito has always placed plenty of blame on himself and even the sexiest quotes from the book seem pretty benign to me. Ownership meddled a bit more than he would have liked. They focused on marketing a bit more than he would have liked. They weren't as passionate about baseball as he was.

 

Well, no shit. Just like journalists want to write stories that they think are important and don't give a shit about consumer research and what people want to read; just like actors want to make beautiful movies with witty dialog and long and searching looks and don't care how much money a movie makes; just like any dedicated professional, Tito wanted to work diligently at his craft of winning baseball games and not be distracted by money issues and hassled by the sales guys.

 

Of course. It's what he's supposed to say, and what he believes, but if that counts as "ripping ownership," well, you've led a pretty sheltered life, I guess.

 

Nope, Tito didn't like Lucky Larry. Who does like him?

 

And the jab early on about the money? Are you kidding me? Does anyone really think Tito wrote the book for the money? Maybe Shank did. But Tito's seeing pretty small change out of this by his standards, I assure you. There aren't a whole lot of authors making "hundreds of thousands of dollars" off of one book anymore.

[mabrowndog]

Which sentiments would those be? I'm honestly curious. Minihane doesn't seem to have an actual thesis in there anywhere. He says (or the headline does) that Tito has only himself to blame - but Tito has always placed plenty of blame on himself and even the sexiest quotes from the book seem pretty benign to me.

 

My thoughts exactly. The Minihane piece is horribly disjointed writing, like a Chris Farley character doing an op-ed on Weekend Update. He just rambles on and on with his stream-of-consciousness bitching -- very little of which actually supports his opening and closing credo: "John Henry should be pissed".

Edited by mabrowndog, 25 January 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[scotian1]

I agree with the commment that Henry has the right to upset with this. Here is someone who put together an ownership group that has brought two World Series Championships to the fans of this team as well as investing in saving Fenway Park. He hired at that time the youngest GM in baseball and brought Francona onboard to run a team that narrowly missed out on going to World Series the year before. To hear both Theo and Francona take shots at him can't be something he that he enjoys. To say that Henry doesn't love baseball is an opinion that has no evidence behind it, Henry has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on this team. I don't think that people who own sports teams do it soley for the purpose of making money. As far as being a meddler, I assume that Francona would not have been happy working for George.

[brs3]

I'm not sure what Henry would really be upset about. Halfway through, so far Henry has been painted as a guy who isn't involved in the day-to-day operations, but reached out to Francona a few times when it appeared he wasn't doing so well physically & personally-something Francona said he appreciated.

 

Minihane's article sucks. He didn't read the book, and provides nothing of substance to his article.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I agree with the commment that Henry has the right to upset with this. Here is someone who put together an ownership group that has brought two World Series Championships to the fans of this team as well as investing in saving Fenway Park. He hired at that time the youngest GM in baseball and brought Francona onboard to run a team that narrowly missed out on going to World Series the year before. To hear both Theo and Francona take shots at him can't be something he that he enjoys. To say that Henry doesn't love baseball is an opinion that has no evidence behind it, Henry has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on this team. I don't think that people who own sports teams do it soley for the purpose of making money. As far as being a meddler, I assume that Francona would not have been happy working for George.

Whether Henry does or does not have a right to be pissed is pretty subjective and I'm not interested in arguing that point further, but the bolded strikes me as a rather odd point to make: Tito had any number of interactions with the guy. His actual experience and perception of the man doesn't count as evidence?

 

Obviously, he can't read Henry's mind, but neither does he have to begin ever sentence of his book with the words "I think" for us to understand that he's providing his opinion on the matter. Tito doesn't think Henry loves baseball as much as he does. What "evidence" would you like him to provide? Would you demand a quote from Henry saying, "Ya know, I only kinda like baseball. But I really LOVE money!"

[soxfaninyankeeland]

Francona coming up on Mike Francesa in the next hour.

Edited by soxfaninyankeeland, 27 January 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[amh03]

Swung by the signing at Acton's Willow Books last night. It was really nice to have him support one of the locally owned, independent bookstores. The event was really well organized...over 400 people there. He was very kind, thanking every person for coming out.

Edited by amh03, 31 January 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[brs3]

I finished the book last night. Overall I enjoyed it. There were a lot of little tidbits that were interesting & funny. It rushed through some of the years, but that might've just been me wanting more. If you've ever read CHB, you can pretty much tell where Francona's bit ends and where he begins. I didn't think it revealed a lot, and I didn't think it was a book hellbent on bashing the owners. Epstein's participation in the book has been understated IMO. Thought it's CHB, I'd recommend it to any Sox fan.

 

My only gripe was CHB's potshots at Yaz for leaving early whenever he could when participating in events. Totally unnecessary.

[JimBoSox9]

 
My only gripe was CHB's potshots at Yaz for leaving early whenever he could when participating in events. Totally unnecessary.

I thought the same thing while reading, but really it was only a couple lines and ended up being a decent brick that landed with Tito leaving Fenway in 2012.

Edit: I thought the real point of the Yaz/Toto parallel was to underscore the 'it always ends badly in Boston" narrative.

Edited by JimBoSox9, 30 January 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[brs3]

Yeah, it was maybe 3 lines total. It may not have been a dig at Yaz. It just seemed clunky. The last one brought it all together, so I guess it did have a point.

[Corsi]

Just got official word: "Francona - The Red Sox Years" will debut at #2 on New York Times bestseller list Feb. 10. Thanks to all who helped

https://twitter.com/...748030210752512

[C4CRVT]

Tito's doing a MLB network Bob Costas interview tonight at 9:00.

[jacklamabe65]

I LOVE Tito, but I think that his time in Cleveland will be similar to Don Cherry's time in Colorado after he left the B's. Just a feeling that he actually found a career in television as Grapes did three decades ago.

[luckysox]

Watching the interview and reading the book make me miss him as a part of the club. I just love the guy. I hope Farrell wins and a lot for the sox...but I'm gonna root for Tito and the Indians to get good fast. I hope he wins a bunch, too.

[JimD]

For HWL, the blowback from this book is probably about as mild as they could have hoped for.  The revelations about them liking but not loving baseball, wanting ‘sexy’ stars to drive TV ratings, etc. generated much heat and light for a few days but don’t seem to have really turned fan opinion towards them any more negative than it already was.  This is probably partly due to fans still being generally down on the ownership group in the wake of the 2011-12 s***show and the lack of winning results to date, but also perhaps because most fans are savvy enough to realize that any overbearing push by ownership to market more attractive players to NESN subscribers was tame next to Theo’s abysmal execution of that mandate.  Nor did Tito offer up anything that would embarrass a current member of the team and ensure a crowd of reporters hounding them during spring training.  Add to this the fact that Francona’s current gig as Indians skipper necessitated that the book tour be shoehorned into a late January timeframe and I think it’s virtually certain that the book will have faded to the background by the time that spring training is underway, provided that no current member of the Red Sox organization is dumb enough to bring it up again.

[Myt1]

To say that Henry doesn't love baseball is an opinion that has no evidence behind it, Henry has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on this team. I don't think that people who own sports teams do it soley for the purpose of making money.

 

I have no idea how these two sentences can exist in the same universe.

 

Unless you think that Henry has lost money on the team, why do the hundreds of millions he spent matter?  And what's your definition of "evidence"?  Francona worked for the man for years and saw how the organization was run.  I know that CSI has ruined many a criminal jury, but what would you need before someone could make that claim?  An email from Henry that closed with, "Oh, BTW, Tito, not a big lover of this whole 'baseball thing.' - JWH"?

 

EDIT:  I mean, your evidence that Henry loves baseball is that he spent money making money, and Tito's the one lacking evidence?  Does he love corn and soybean futures, too?

Edited by Myt1, 31 January 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Alternate34]

I have no idea how these two sentences can exist in the same universe.

 

Unless you think that Henry has lost money on the team, why do the hundreds of millions he spent matter?  And what's your definition of "evidence"?  Francona worked for the man for years and saw how the organization was run.  I know that CSI has ruined many a criminal jury, but what would you need before someone could make that claim?  An email from Henry that closed with, "Oh, BTW, Tito, not a big lover of this whole 'baseball thing.' - JWH"?

 

EDIT:  I mean, your evidence that Henry loves baseball is that he spent money making money, and Tito's the one lacking evidence?  Does he love corn and soybean futures, too?

 

Who the fuck doesn't love corn and soybean futures?

 

I don't see what the big deal is. Love is a wicked high standard to meet. I don't understand why people find it controversial that a guy who has entire life soaked in baseball has such a high standard. It is the difference between having something be your entire life and something being a profitable enterprise. Or are we just going to have a shitty definition of love? 

[lexrageorge]

Francona is your classic baseball "lifer".  Played for a few seasons, managed for a few seasons, and was even the broadcast booth one season.  He truly seems to love being around the ballpark, which is a necessary trait if you want to be a manager of a high profile ballclub.  

 

John Henry is the businessman who provides the capital to make the operation run.  He views the Red Sox as part of his Fenway Sports Group enterprise; a huge part, but a part nonetheless.  He loves being in front of computers and in conference rooms, which is a necessary trait if you want to be a hedge fund manager and principal owner of a large media/sports enterprise.  

 

Those two trajectories are bound to clash from time to time.  Ultimately, the owner has a business to run, and will sometimes make decisions based more on the business side than on the baseball side.  The baseball guy (aka, the manager) gets the short end of the straw, but that's life.  What Francona said in his book about Henry's love (or lack thereof) of baseball is not only his opinion, but may very well be correct.  But the scenario he describes is hardly unique to the Red Sox or John Henry.  Nor is it necessarily a problem. 

 

So far, Henry and Co. have been pretty decent owners.  They've made mistakes, with the Francona/Valentine fiasco being the most notorious.  But so has Bob Kraft.  So did George Steinbrenner.  Hopefully the mistakes have been corrected, and that will show up on the field.  But don't expect the ownership to suddenly stop worrying about ratings, revenues, profit & loss, and other boring stuff that successful businesses worry about every day. 

Edited by lexrageorge, 01 February 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Myt1]

Both of those posts make a ton of sense to me.

[jsinger121]

 

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo

Sox CEO Larry Lucchino has answered no comment to two of globe columnist Dan Shaughnessy questions. Shaughnessy wrote terry francona's book

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe

Two questions to Luchhino from @Dan_Shaughnessy. Two quick "no comments." Then he answered same questions asked by others.#RedSox

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Rooting for injuries in that conflict.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Wow. What thick skin Larry Luchhino has.

[ShaneTrot]

Wow. What thick skin Larry Luchhino has.

Yeah, but I can understand the hostility. Who here would not kneecap CHB if there were no consequences? I feel bad enough throwing money CHB's way for the book. 

[joe dokes]

I guess this qualifies as Shaughnessy taking the high road. Passive-aggressive, yes. But even LazyDan seems to realize that even he won't benefit from a pissing match with LL over the longer haul.

 

http://www.bostonglo...FFIN/story.html

 

(If somebody up there thinks that the last few Shaughnessy-LL posts ought to be moved . . .)

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Yeah, but I can understand the hostility. Who here would not kneecap CHB if there were no consequences? I feel bad enough throwing money CHB's way for the book. 

 

Give me a break. Lucchino did the same thing eight years ago when Epstein left, spoon-feeding CHB quotes. Or at the very least he made sure the Dentist gave the LL version of what happened. 

 

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, he's going to act like a baby? Shaunghnessy is doing his job, if LL doesn't like it maybe he should have stayed in San Diego.

[Lose Remerswaal]

If you're a Boston Globe subscriber, sign up for "Insider" (it's free), and you can see Tito and Scoop:
 

Francona: The Red Sox Years – Book Talk & Signing with Dan Shaughnessy
 

Date: Thursday, March 14th, 2013
Location: Bill's Bar - Lansdowne Street, Boston
Time: 6-8pm

[mabrowndog]

Will they be screening for weapons at the door?

[biollante]

I found this quote funny in CHB's article on L:

 

"In Earl Weaver style, Lucchino loves a good argument, has thick skin, and doesn’t take things personally."

[mikeot]

Just got around to starting the book ... the 2004 victory parade sweatshirt anecdote slams LL right of the gate as something of a mirthless bully IMHO.  

[URI]

I just finished the book.  Some quick thoughts:

 

*This book is terribly written.  Shaughnessy just can't help himself from his schtick in parts, and you can tell it was wriiten quickly and lightly edited.  For example, not only are there the eye rolling parts for me, but simple factual errors (calling Peter Woodfork "Peter Woodford" etc).  One part that really annoyed me was the writing of the gorrilla suit episode without mentioning that he welded the particular hatchet in question.

 

*The conflict in the book is presented as Owners vs. Theo and Tito.  Henry is portrayed as aloof, and distant.  Werner as a buffoon, and Lucchino as a bully.  Tito is above the fray as just a man who wants to manage baseball games, and Theo as the exasperated hero trying to keep everyone together.  None of this is surprising to me.

 

*I never got the feeling this is Tito's book.  I wish someone else was the writer.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I'm about 80% done with the book, and maybe it all comes together, but what's with all the Pam Ganley mentions? Some of them seem to serve no real purpose. 

[NJ Fan]

I agree Rudy, and IMO puts her in an awkward situation since she's still with the team, management writes her paychecks and she is positioned as a Tito loyalist.

[ShaneTrot]

I was surprised with CHB involved there was not more trashing of sabermetrics, there was some trashing of the FO line up suggestions and a little bit on EV but overall he seemed cool with James and Carmine. Theo came out of it smelling like a rose, obviously because he cooperated.

[lexrageorge]

I was surprised with CHB involved there was not more trashing of sabermetrics, there was some trashing of the FO line up suggestions and a little bit on EV but overall he seemed cool with James and Carmine. Theo came out of it smelling like a rose, obviously because he cooperated.

 

I think the main reason is that the book was primarily about Tito's viewpoint, and Francona doesn't seem to disagree with using the data that the front office provides.  In fact, he seems to enjoy it, provided he's allowed to make the final lineup decisions.  I wouldn't even call the criticisms "trashings", as they seemed to be on point.  

 

The relationship between Theo and Tito was obviously quite strong, and I think we can say it did produce results.  There may have been some CYA going on by Theo with regards to some of those big signings in the later years, but even Francona admitted that he was very much in favor of getting Carl Crawford.  

[jayhoz]

The book is $5.00 today on Google Play.

[LoweTek]

$5.00 on Amazon as well.

[LahoudOrBillyC]

I just finished this yesterday.  I gotta say, I thought the book was great.  I had no plans to read it at all, but a friend who is not even a Red Sox fan recommended it to me.  I was afraid that it would be just a lot of gossip, and the excerpts compounded this fear.  But I was assured that it was not, and I am glad I read it.

 

I thought Shaugnessy did a great job telling Tito's story.  There were some annoying DS one-liners, but for the most part I thought he told the story well.  What I wanted to learn was: what was it like to manage this team, these players, working for these people?  What were the biggest challenges, what was Francona's day like, what did he value in people, what was his ethic when it came to managing?  It could have been much longer for my taste, so that he could have explored some of that.  What DS had to do was put in a lot of background story--to rehash the details of the seasons and post-seasons.  I did not need any of that, but I understand why it needed to be there.

 

I thought DS handled the ownership pretty well in the book.  Francona acknowledged that they had other issues to worry about, admitted that he stayed out of all of it, explained the issues from his angle, and then let it lie.  DS did not pile on either. 

 

Francona came across as a good man and a great manager.   I never thought he was anything special as a tactician, but Francona taught me (even before this book) that managing the 25 men in that room is an order of magnitude more important than how he used Mike Myers.   For all the bullshit he took from Manny Ramirez, and all the bullets he took for him, he deserves a statue in Boston.  For getting his team ready to play in ALCS 4 in 2004, they should retire his number.  I think he and the Red Sox both benefited immeasurably from the partnership, and I think the partnership had to end.  I look forward to a true Francona Night at the ballpark some day when all the wounds have healed.  And they will.

 

I would love truly love to read a straight memoir from Lucchino.  Not a he said/she said book, but something that describes how he has gone about his business, especially the past 11 years.  He is very good at his job, obviously.