250 replies to this topic

[biollante]

If the stars align and I remember to buy the book, I would read it. The "new" ownership has been trying to do different things since they bought the club. Some work, some don't. I wish the focus was more on getting to see a baseball game without having to draw down on an equity line and having the game end at 11pm and then having to drive back to Connecticut. I would really prefer more home day games.

[The Long Tater]

Setting aside the CHB side show, there is stuff in the SI excerpt I had not heard before and it rings true. Inviting the manager to a meeting about how to improve ratings? ignoring your players' complaints about the start time of getaway games because it affects ratings? Those are not the acts of a management who's priority is winning.

[JMDurron]

Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I think CHB is a better manipulator than we give him credit for. Those edits by Francona scream "Put obviously ridiculous statements for him to find and correct so he doesn't notice something else" to me.

[Pearl Wilson]

This is Francona we're talking about. Give him some credit. CHB cannot hold a candle to Francona when it comes to people skills. Tito can certainly figure out how to parse his words to get a desired affect or to avoid an undesired affect. He's a master.

[JimD]

The fact that Shaughnessy felt compelled to refer to players as 'useless' and 'a blowhard' in his draft tells you all you need to know. This is CHB's version of the Terry Francona story, not an autobiography.

[joyofsox]

Peter Abraham has read the book and offers a few thoughts.

http://www.boston.co...k_inside_f.html


***

It was interesting to learn that Epstein hired two "outside consultants" to put together proposed lineups for Francona every day. Eric Van was hired after Henry noticed him on the Sons of Sam Horn message board. Voros McCracken, a pioneer in sabermetrics, was the other.
Francona never met them and he wasn't mandated to use their lineups. But at one point Francona told Epstein he had enough of the suggestions and to keep them to himself.
***

[biollante]

Here is the most important part of Abraham's article:

"My thought after finishing the book? Good luck to John Farrell."

Hey, at least he should know a little bit of what he is walking into.

[TheoShmeo]

My thought after reading all I've read so far? Good luck to Tito in Cleveland. It will be interesting to see how successful he is when the meany Red Sox owners aren't providing him with players he can win with.

[SoxinSeattle]

Setting aside the CHB side show, there is stuff in the SI excerpt I had not heard before and it rings true. Inviting the manager to a meeting about how to improve ratings? ignoring your players' complaints about the start time of getaway games because it affects ratings? Those are not the acts of a management who's priority is winning.

Not necessarily. Can't a company be both successful and popular? This ownership group has plenty of wins and paycheck stubs that says they are very interested in winning.

[Van Everyman]

Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I think CHB is a better manipulator than we give him credit for. Those edits by Francona scream "Put obviously ridiculous statements for him to find and correct so he doesn't notice something else" to me.

There was an article in EW when the South Park movie came out and everyone was trying to figure out how they got so much past the MPAA -- and Trey Parker and Matt Stone told them that was exactly what they did: include obvious things that would get struck down so they would leave things like the Winona Ryder golf ball thing in. Then the writer went to Jack Valenti with that quote and he LOST HIS MIND.

My sense tho is that CHB just steered Francona in a much more combative direction than he normally would have. He also probably knew exactly how to gin him up about things like not hearing back from Henry after his emails.

For me this was the quote:

Page 346: “If you had told me on September 1, 2011, that by November of 2011, I would be jobless and writing a book with Dan Shaughnessy, I would have told you . . . that this would happen as soon as a 200-pound hog jumps out of my ass."

I may well read it but that kind of manipulation (and manipulation is the right word) is exactly why things so often end badly in Boston. Get em at their lowest, most vulnerable insecure possible moments and blast their words as loudly as you can.

Edited by Van Everyman, 21 January 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[IpswichSox]

Just got an email that the iTunes download of the book is now available.

[Pearl Wilson]

Got my Kindle version.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Just got an email that the iTunes download of the book is now available.

I hope they get the players to do the audiobook. Listening to Manny and Millar and Damon speak their own lines would be awesome.

[Lefty on the Mound]

Nice article by Chad Finn on the book:

http://www.boston.co...xsWP/story.html

I especially like this part:

During Game 4 of the 2004 World Series, Ramirez got into an argument in Spanish with Cardinals catcher Yadier Molina. Molina was accusing Ramirez of stealing the Cardinals’ signs.


Francona turned toward plate umpire Chuck Meriweather: “Chuck, Manny doesn’t even know our signs.”


Francona turned to Ramirez, and asked, “You don’t know our signs, do you, Manny?”


Ramirez replied, sheepishly, “No.”

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Ha, I've always wondered about that dust up between Manny and Molina. I remember that incident well.

[JohntheBaptist]

Ha, I've always wondered about that dust up between Manny and Molina. I remember that incident well.

Me too! I've wondered that many times, especially since the Series was largely in the bag at that point. Mystery solved.

[941827]

"Our medical staff was all [expletive] up. There were more egos on the medical staff than there were on the team," Francona says in the book. "Without [Dr.] Larry Ronan, it wouldn't have worked."

I wonder if this explains some of the questionable medical decisions made by the team during Tito's reign.

[Boston Brawler]

Cross posting from the offseason game thread, didn't see this one...

Anyway, I bumped into Terry yesterday in the Cleveland airport. Luckily, it was right near the Hudson News/bookstore. I bought a copy and he signed it for me. It was surprising that hundreds of people were walking by him, seemingly not knowing who he was. Have to admit, I was a bit star struck. The best part was, he didn't even know the book was out yet.

[Guapos Toenails]

On page 42 it describes Game 7 of 2003 ALCS being on October 15. B-R has it played on the 16. I remember this because the game ended just after midnight on October 17, my birthday. Not a big deal I guess to get the date wrong, but still...
Im enjoying the book immensely...

[joyofsox]

And the 16th was my 40th birthday. ... Fuckin $#@*& Gump.

[Greg29fan]

I know Simmons isn't everybody's favorite guy on here but Tito is on Bill's podcast today talking about the book and some other stuff from his time in Boston. http://espn.go.com/e...ayer?id=8870443

Edited by Greg29fan, 22 January 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[SoxVindaloo]

Been said before upthread but Tito, now the proud Manager of one of the 30, is now in damage control mode about some facets of the book.

http://espn.go.com/b...yre-good-owners

Hard to call owners out when a different one is now signing your paycheck.

[trekfan55]

More than just damage control, Tito is also telling people to read the whole book.

I have it on my kindle and will reserve judgement until I've read it.

One thing, Chad Finn, PeteAbe, and Speier have articles out on the book and they do not make it sound like it was calling out the owners.

Speier,

PeteAbe This one links to Extra Bases blog so the story may be buried in there.

Finn This one was linked upthread as well.

[scotian1]

^{Having read only the SI excerpt, the book seems more CHB than Francona. It doesn't have a first person sense whatsoever with Francona's statements appearing in quotes. Is the rest of the book similar to this?}

[Guapos Toenails]

It is not first person at all. There are definitely spots in the first 60 pages that i've read so far where you read it in CHB's voice (if that makes any sense). There is also lots of foreshadowing so far in terms of setting up how and why the events of September 2011 went down. Tito proof-read it several times, so if it's ok with him, it's ok with me...

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

A lot of these athlete books are like that, with the third person and the athlete quoted. Wake's book is that way.

It's because only some athletes have the wherewithal to organize their thoughts in book form. Most just talk with a ghostwriter for hours and hours and the writer is charged with crafting the "story."

The first person does seem to make more sense, but after reading a ton of musician autobios that are just terrible in the first person, i have a feeling the third person indicates a first person would be just too hard to pull off.

[mabrowndog]

Tito will be on The Dan Patrick Show (Video broadcast on NBC Sports Network) in a matter of moments to discuss the book.

He'll also be on BostonSportsLive at noon with Chad Finn & Chris Gasper.

[drbretto]

So, the dumbass yankee fan that's calling francona's slight pause to think before speaking about the bloody sock a thorough "debunking" of the situation said something about being yelled at by francona once for calling him "coach". Is that the same dumbass that we talked about on here a few years ago that tried to "expose" how horrible of a person he is?

 

edit: referring to the dan patrick show interview

Edited by drbretto, 23 January 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[JimBoSox9]

It is not first person at all. There are definitely spots in the first 60 pages that i've read so far where you read it in CHB's voice (if that makes any sense). There is also lots of foreshadowing so far in terms of setting up how and why the events of September 2011 went down. Tito proof-read it several times, so if it's ok with him, it's ok with me...

 

This is the very first thing that jumped out at me.  The commentary portion of the text (as opposed to the quotes or the descriptions) is 100% CHB.  He makes that clear right from page 1 with lines like "there was a sense of inevitability about the Red Sox march to the finish line" in 2004 and "Lucchino, the trigger-tempered smartest man in the room".   Frankly, my impression so far in that area is that I don't think you can reasonably give Tito partial author credit; it reads like a straight biography.  

 

That tone, while not particularly surprising, made bits of chapter 1 tough to get through, but I would encourage the CHB haterz to power through to the fantastic, quote-heavy chapters 2 and 3.  The "baseball brothers" historical rundown is by far my favorite section so far.  I haven't gotten to anything about 2011 yet, but so far the narrative around ownership is (besides a couple LL potshots) less about meddling or malfeasance and more about a disconnect between baseball lifers and smart, engaged owners who don't quite get how the sausage is made in the clubhouse, dugout, or field.  It creates some interpretations I disagree with but hasn't yet struck me as an unfair perspective.  One quote in that vein that REALLY jumped out at me, as a man who struggles to understand just why the hell someone thought it was a good idea to make me watch Bobby V for a year:

 

"There's one thing I'm going to be proud of after I'm gone," Francona said in the days after it ended.  "I think they're going to find there's more shit that goes on than they realize."

[brs3]

I just got back from the book signing at B&N. Huge turnout for Francona in NYC. I waited about an hour, but the lined moved quick.

 

"There's one thing I'm going to be proud of after I'm gone," Francona
said in the days after it ended.  "I think they're going to find there's
more shit that goes on than they realize." 
 

This quote is actually on the back cover of the book.

 

CHB was at the signing, but off to the side at a tiny table on his own. Of the 20-30 people I saw ahead of me, I think 1/3rd stopped for his signature.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

One quote in that vein that REALLY jumped out at me, as a man who struggles to understand just why the hell someone thought it was a good idea to make me watch Bobby V for a year:

 

This reminds me of what Joe Morgan said when he got fired: "This team's not as good as everyone thinks it is."

[Red(s)HawksFan]

This reminds me of what Joe Morgan said when he got fired: "This team's not as good as everyone thinks it is."

 

Morgan's last team won 84 games, the following year, they won 73 for Butch Hobson.  Sometimes managers really do know more about their team than anyone else.

[mabrowndog]

Tito will be on The Big Show on WEEI at 5:05 pm today. He'll also be on with Felger & Mazz on Friday (Time TBA). 

 

The earlier interviews weren't all that illuminating, and unfortunately the Finn/Gasper session was plagued by audio difficulties where Tito had to ask them to repeat their questions several times.

 

The best anecdote actually came from Dan Patrick after Tito had hung up. Patrick first met Francona when he was managing Michael Jordan with the AA Birmingham Barons. During his Red Sox stint, Tito generously offered to let DP's then-12-year-old son (and rabid Sox fan) serve as batboy for a game. He describes Tito leaning forward on the top dugout step, as he often did, surveying the defensive alignments. And right next to him, also leaning on the same step in the same position, is Patrick's son. That TIto would let him do that in the late innings of a close game (Sox won 1-0 on a Manny solo shot) is pretty cool.

Edited by mabrowndog, 23 January 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[PawsnSox]

I just got back from the book signing at B&N. Huge turnout for Francona in NYC. I waited about an hour, but the lined moved quick.

 

This quote is actually on the back cover of the book.

 

CHB was at the signing, but off to the side at a tiny table on his own. Of the 20-30 people I saw ahead of me, I think 1/3rd stopped for his signature.

I was there as well. It was terrific to see so many people turn out for Tito.  But when I was there, CHB was left standing around chatting to the assembled members of the N.Y. press -- no table and no one stopping to ask him for a signature.

[NJ Fan]

I just got back from the book signing at B&N. Huge turnout for Francona in NYC. I waited about an hour, but the lined moved quick.

 

This quote is actually on the back cover of the book.

 

CHB was at the signing, but off to the side at a tiny table on his own. Of the 20-30 people I saw ahead of me, I think 1/3rd stopped for his signature.

I was there, too.  Turnout was definitely not "huge."  I stayed til the end to have Tito sign a piece of memorabilia for me and overheard a B&N guy say when it ended that there were about 150 people in all.

 

And PawsnSox...that's simply not so.  CHB did, indeed, sit to the side (perhaps 15 feet away from Tito, with someone from the publisher, for those reading this), and he recognized correctly that this was billed as a Tito-only signing.  But I agree with brs3 that he signed roughly one-third of the books.

 

I'm sure the Boston signing will be packed with fans and be a media circus.

[Greg Blosser]

I stopped by for a minute at around 1 PM but at that point the line was snaking around the isles and I had to get back to work.  It was cool to see Tito, regardless.

 

I'm loving the book, at least through '10 - sometimes CHB gets a little overbearing but Tito is fascinatingly spot-on, not to mention pretty hilarious.  Theo's insight is fantastic, as well.  It's definitely interesting enough to justify tossing a few cents into CHB's bank account.

 

Of course, I'm halfway through and already up to the '10 season.  Dunno if I'll feel the same way once the whole second act plays out.

[HriniakPosterChild]

Morgan's last team won 84 games, the following year, they won 73 for Butch Hobson.  Sometimes managers really do know more about their team than anyone else.

 

And cocaine can amplify that effect.

[pk1627]

Enjoyed my brief chat with Tito at the signing. Very clear he really loves talking baseball. I forget how depleted that 2008 team was at the end, and they still were one JD hit away from the WS. Great teams this guy managed.

[PawsnSox]

I was there, too.  Turnout was definitely not "huge."  I stayed til the end to have Tito sign a piece of memorabilia for me and overheard a B&N guy say when it ended that there were about 150 people in all.

 

And PawsnSox...that's simply not so.  CHB did, indeed, sit to the side (perhaps 15 feet away from Tito, with someone from the publisher, for those reading this), and he recognized correctly that this was billed as a Tito-only signing.  But I agree with brs3 that he signed roughly one-third of the books.

 

I'm sure the Boston signing will be packed with fans and be a media circus.

With due respect, NJ Fan, what I wrote correctly reflects what was happening at the time that I was at the signing.  I was within the first 30 people or so on the line and during the time it took for me to get through the line and get my book signed, CHB was never seated or signing. He was standing in the roped off area for the event talking to some credentialed NY media and some of the B & N people. 

 

FWIW, I am glad that at some point into the event they got him a seat and made him available for anyone interested in the signatures of both authors since he had taken the trouble to come out in support of the book.  But that was not the case when I was there.

Edited by PawsnSox, 23 January 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Redkluzu]

Great letter to the Editor in The Globe today about Mazz's piece about the book, and info as reported from Tito.  Here's an excerpt, well OK, most of it:

 

So there I was, merrily barreling through Tony Massarotti’s Jan. 17 column “Giving us the business,” about Terry Francona’s new book, when I came to the part about the Red Sox-commissioned marketing study concluding that women are “more drawn to the ‘soap-opera’ and ‘reality TV’ aspects” of professional baseball, a conclusion Massarotti described as a
“sky-is-blue observation.” Whoa there, battered blue hat-wearer.

Aside from the obvious point — that many (I’d say, most) women watch baseball for the same reasons men do: as an excuse to drink beer in the afternoon while jeering athletes over plays we’d never have a chance of making, no matter how many checks to the gym we write — the study’s conclusion (and Massarotti’s apparent agreement) are flawed on the face of it.

If the Sox were so interested in attracting female viewers, Mike Lowell would still be playing third base. And if anyone thinks that Major League Baseball is the best venue in which to enjoy a combination of soap opera and baseball, I have two words: “Bull Durham"...

 

I know a lot of women who are loyal Sox fans and do not even wear pink hats. That piece of information is free.

 

Edited by Redkluzu, 24 January 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[redsoxstiff]

One statement in the book, strikes me as the defining relationship ...Tito is nudged off the platform when a photo is taken of the "winners"...
It is a miracle that the water doesn't rise around the city with the mass of turd that is "Lucky"...

[kevlog]

Oooh, he stopped in the office to sign a few books. I am tempted to go high-five him on behalf of the entire Sons of Sam Horn message board......

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

High five? Screw that. Ask him if he wants to do a live chat!

[Guapos Toenails]

Question about book signings:  You can bring the book to be signed, even if you bought it in another store, right?  How do they know I didn't steal it from them?  Sorry if this is a dumb question but i've never gone to a book signing...

[kevlog]

 

Most bookstores will frown upon that - expecting that if you attend a signing at their store, you will buy the book at same store.  That's most cases (95%, maybe). But you can always call the store.  But, yeah, frowned upon.

[Lose Remerswaal]

 

Question about book signings:  You can bring the book to be signed, even if you bought it in another store, right?  How do they know I didn't steal it from them?  Sorry if this is a dumb question but i've never gone to a book signing...

 

Bring it with the receipt.

[terrynever]

Here is why I bought the book: On the Dave Roberts steal, Shaughnessy notes that Brad Mills clocked Posada's POP time at 1.79 seconds. Posada is not known for his agility but that was the fastest POP time Mills had recorded to that point.

 

I never knew this factoid. Of course, I have tried to stay away from deep analysis of Game 4, 9th inning. Is it common knowledge among Red Sox fans?

Edited by terrynever, 24 January 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I hadn't heard that before, although anecdotally I thought Posada made a really great throw for him, given that his defense rep wasn't all that stellar.

[terrynever]

I hadn't heard that before, although anecdotally I thought Posada made a really great throw for him, given that his defense rep wasn't all that stellar.

Thanks. I felt the same way as you. Great throw, Roberts just barely got in there. But to have the fastest time Mills had ever seen was pretty amazing. The book went on to say Mills went into the locker room to check and see if his stopwatch was working properly, then came out and told Tito, "You won't believe how close that play was." And Tito praised Roberts for coming cold off the bench and being ready to run his fastest.

[HriniakPosterChild]

And Tito praised Roberts for coming cold off the bench and being ready to run his fastest.

 

So did Derek Jeter.