17 replies to this topic

[drtooth]

http://www.wbaltv.co...treets=bal&ts=H

Odd timing to say the least.

[TheoShmeo]

These Harbaugh boys aren't afraid to make a change.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Cross-posted from Playoff thread as I should have put it in here originally:

Yes, the offense is a problem because with the deficiencies on defense -- which stem from injury, age and losing a couple of guys in FA the Ravens would have preferred to keep -- the offense HAS to step up. Rice is a beast, but you can take him out of the game, which means Flacco has to play at an "elite" level for the Ravens to get anywhere near a SB appearance. And, as Mike Preston notes today in the Sun, Flacco simply is not elite:

It's kind of amazing the Ravens are 9-4 given their injuries. On defense they ended their game without their TOP 4 linebackers and their top 2 corners and Ngata definitely seems slowed by injuries. That's a lot for any team to overcome.

It will be very interesting to see what happens this offseason with Flacco, who will want to be paid like an elite guy. Ozzie is savvy enough to know that Flacco isn't on that level and that he's not worth locking up long-term in the 15-20M per year range. My guess is that talks get pretty heated and that the Ravens seriously consider giving him the tag for a year, effectively giving the current core one more shot, and drafting a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round with the idea of moving on the following year.

I think Ozzie would be happy giving him $15M/year - which as I understand it is the lower part of the 2nd tier QBs - but Flacco wants more than that.

[ragnarok725]

I think Ozzie would be happy giving him $15M/year - which as I understand it is the lower part of the 2nd tier QBs - but Flacco wants more than that.

What about the possibility of Alex Smith going from the tutelage of one Harbaugh to another? He's certainly not gonna be the star they want, but he won't lose them games and he'll allow Rice to shine. Are there any other QB possibilites out there aside from the draft?

The key will be how they can re-stock the defense because I don't think there will be a quick fix at QB.

[wutang112878]

I have to say I am impressed that Harbaugh would do this, while it might not be the right call its a gutsy one thats for sure.

What about the possibility of Alex Smith going from the tutelage of one Harbaugh to another? He's certainly not gonna be the star they want, but he won't lose them games and he'll allow Rice to shine.

Thats a great idea. Smith can probably give them 70% of the production that Flacco can at 30-40% of the cost if Flacco is looking for $15M+ which sounds amazingly ridiculous. However, I bet Ozzie franchises Flacco instead of letting him walk or giving him a $15M+ multi-year deal unless there isnt a lot of guaranteed money in it.

[dcmissle]

http://www.wbaltv.co...treets=bal&ts=H

Odd timing to say the least.

This is what happens when three 4th-quarter turnovers lead directly to two Ravens' losses in eight days -- in a year in which a 1st-round playoff bye would have been of great value to the Ravens. Plus this movie has been playing in Baltimore for 12 years.

It may be as simple as Harbaugh whispering to Cameron in those 4th quarters that maybe we ought to be feeding Ray Rice here -- and Cameron not taking it sufficiently to heart.

It may be more complicated -- a shot across Flacco's bow when the QB really can't be replaced.

I don't think it's Harbaugh stealing from mentor Andy Reid's playbook; there are no signs Harbaugh's job is in jeopardy.

IMO, this is treating a sympton rather than a cause. Cameron did some good things. Even before the injuries, it was plain that that the defense would be down this season. The implementation of a no-huddle was a thoughtful response because Flacco is ponderous and they really needed more out of the offense and knew it. Can Cameron be faulted if Flacco insists on playing like Drew Bledsoe?

Edited by dcmissle, 10 December 2012 - 01:37 PM.

[tims4wins]

Can Cameron be faulted if Flacco insists on playing like Drew Bledsoe?

Funny you mention Bledsoe because that pick in the 4th quarter when he threw the ball into the line and it bounced into a d-lineman's hands was positively Bledsoe-esque. Hard to blame Cam for that.

[Grimace-HS]

I too am quite surprised at this move, although not necessarily questioning it. I've always thought that Baltimore was overly heavily concentrated on defense, with much less attention directed toward offense and that is pretty clear over the past 10+ years or so. But I agree with the posts that much if it is personnel related, as I never would put Flacco in with the top tier QB grouping, and more likely in the lower part of the second group. The overall offense is that that bad though, so I'm wondering if this move is more about actual behind-the-scenes working differences between Harbaugh and Cameron...perhaps preparation conflicts/differences that ultimately manifested into some of the late game collapses.

[Oil Can Dan]

I have to say that sitting on the ball with :29 seconds left at your own 20 with a timeout in your pocket while staring at overtime while on the road says that something is wrong with your offense. No idea if that had something to do with it, but I was shocked to see that happen.

[Stitch01]

Hope from a Pats fan perspective that Caldwell a) continues to underuse Ray Rice and B) moves Flacco away from throwing mainly check downs and f-it Im going deep bombs and into more intermediate routes.

[tims4wins]

I have to say that sitting on the ball with :29 seconds left at your own 20 with a timeout in your pocket while staring at overtime while on the road says that something is wrong with your offense. No idea if that had something to do with it, but I was shocked to see that happen.

Yeah, it says he can't trust his QB. Hard to blame him.

[SpacemanzGerbil]

Lose three games. Fire your OC.

Makes sense.

[bsj]

I dont get the firing. But I will say I hope going forward they find a way to use their best asset better in Ray Rice. He is off the field for long stretches, and is not catching the ball out of the backfield nearly enough. He needs to be catching 5-6 balls a game minimum and he needs to be touching the ball 23-25 times a game total.

[dcmissle]

Hope from a Pats fan perspective that Caldwell a) continues to underuse Ray Rice and B) moves Flacco away from throwing mainly check downs and f-it Im going deep bombs and into more intermediate routes.

Would that include next Sunday vs Denver? Ditto for the Giants game; I want the Giants out of the playoffs if it's at all possible, which I highly doubt.

[MarcSullivaFan]

Cameron deserved to be fired, but Caldwell seems like a total zero. His combined record as a college and pro head coach is an impressive 52-85. He's never been an offensive coordinator in the pros, and he certainly wasn't calling plays in Indy. He must be an excellent lackey, because he keeps getting jobs. I'm assuming he'll have the position in name only, and that Harbaugh will actually call the plays.

[abty]

Well its about time. His fumbles and picks the last two games destroyed a great season and chance at a bye. Oh, wait...

[dcmissle]

I ventured 3 plausible explanations for the move. Per Mike Preston of the Baltimore Sun, the answer appears to be mostly behind door #1:

The Ravens got off to a strong start this season and Flacco seemed in control of the no-huddle offense, but he started faltering on the road. As he continued to struggle, the Ravens appeared to water down the offense and they hit a major snag a week ago against Pittsburgh.

Ahead by a touchdown going into the fourth quarter, star running back Ray Rice never touched the ball in the period even through his last two runs in the third quarter tallied 34 yards and 10 yards. The Ravens lost, 23-20, as Pittsburgh mounted a 12-play, 61-yard drive in the last 6 minutes.

That might have been the unforgivable football sin. And then came Sunday.

According to two Ravens sources, both Harbaugh and Bisciotti were not pleased with the play selection at the end of the half and end of the game. Harbaugh was also not happy with the pass protection in the second half and wanted Flacco to be protected more.

Harbaugh and Cameron, according to the sources, were involved in a heated exchange on the sidelines that carried over into the locker room after the game. After conferring with Bisciotti and several others in the organization, according to the sources, a decision was made to release Cameron.

www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-cam-camerons-play-selections-against-the-redskins-led-to-heated-exchange-with-john-harbaugh-20121210,0,536303.column

Edited by dcmissle, 10 December 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

From Jason Cole at Yahoo:

In short, Cameron is a control freak. He has been for years. Ask people who were in Miami when he served as Dolphins head coach for just one season (2007) and you'll hear stories about how it was actually easier for people in the building to deal with Nick Saban than Cameron.