37 replies to this topic

[Infield Infidel]

I think we have six solid choices here, and I don't think any of them are way off.

Kenyon Barner, RB-Oregon- 1624 yds, 6.5 ypc, 21 TDs
Tied for 4th with Montee Ball for TDs, 16th in ypc, but for players with over 200 carries he's tied for first in ypc with Jordan Lynch.He didn't have the gaudy numbers, but he rarely played in the 4th qtr of games during the first half of the season. Didn't contribute much in the passing game - 232 yds, no TDs
Best game - @USC - 38 carries, 321 yards (8.4ypc) 5 TDs

Collin Klein, QB-Kansas St- 2490 yds pass, 15 TD/7 INT, 890 yds rush, 22 TDs
Optimus Klein basically carried KState to an 11-1 record. Tied for second in the nation with 22 TDs. 16th in passer rating at 156.70. Again, not the gaudiest numbers (well except rushing TDs). One stinker game against Baylor
Best Game - @WVU - 19/21 323 yards 3 pass TDs, 12 rush 41 yds 4 rush TDs

Marqise Lee, WR-Southern Cal - 112 rec, 1680 yds, 14 TDs, 802 kick ret yards 28.6 ypr (12th) , 1 ret TD
Led the nation in receptions, 2nd in receiving yards, 3rd in the nation with 2588 all-purpose yards, most out of anyone who didn't return punts. 2nd in ypr among players with 80+ catches. 3rd in rec TDs (holy god Stedman Bailey had 23 TDs!). A pretty monster season.
Best Game - @AZ, 16 rec, 345 yds, 2 TDs, 3 ret 123 yds, including one for 72

Jordan Lynch QB-Northern Illinois - 2962 yds passing, 24 TD/5 INT, 1771 yds rush, 19 TDs, 6.5 ypc
Led the nation in rushing, and tied for first in YPC among players with 200+ carries. 1st in total offense. Oh, and he throws the ball a bit too, 32nd in yards, 23rd in rating, and OMG A QB LED THE NATION IN RUSHING. 8th in rushTDs. Ran for 100+ yds in ever game except an blowout against Tenn-Martin. The knock on him was competition
Best Game - vs Toledo, 25/36, 407 yds 3 TDs 1INT, 162 yds rushing.

Johnny Manziel QB-Texas A&M 3419 pass yds, 24 TD/8 INT, 1181 yds rush, 6.4 ypc 19 rush TD
Johnny Football was 2nd in total offense per game (Lynch had one more game), tied 8th in rush TDs (tied for 2nd among QBs with Lynch). Just .1 ypc behind Lynch and Barner Played in THE SEC!!, but played well in every game except for LSU. Led the SEC in rushing ypg with 92.
Best Game - @ LaTech 24/40 395 yds, 3 TDs, 195 rush yds, 3 TDs. The Bama game was good too.


Manti Te'o LB-Notre Dame 105 tackles, 5.5 TFLs, 7 INT
The heart of the ND defense, he led a top scoring defense in tackles, and was 2nd in the nation in INTs, which is unusual for a LB. He's not even in the top 20 in tackles nationally, but that's probably because other teams don't run much offense against ND - 4th in the nation in rushing ypg, and only allowed 2 rush TDs all season.
Best Game - @ Oklahoma, 11 tackles, 1 sack, 1 INT

[hawaiirsn]

Manti got me to do the impossible this year- cheer for Notre Dame. He's a buddy from High School, and of course most of the State of Hawaii is supporting him. I grew up a ND hater, so I have been anxious for Te'o's graduation so I can revert to my old cheering habits. Anyway, its a bit hard to see through the bias I have knowing Manti personally (and creating excellent Manti masks for our high school student body to wear during games), so all I can really say is that all the hype about the person he is off the field is true. I think this really shows in how well he handles himself in the intense media spotlight. I really believe that he is the leader media says he is.

As for the other choices, I am pretty bummed that Lynch isn't getting a little more play. As great as Manziel is, and obviously the competition far superior, I am more impressed by what Lynch has done this year. Its a bit harsh, but I really don't think you can discount those two halfs of losing football he played this season. Manziel will probably win, and continue to have a great career, but I still have a hard time with him as the winner. With the crop of freshmen QBs this year, including Manziel, Mariota, Hundley, Hogan, etc, it will be really interesting to see who is the top QB for the next couple years, because I see little certainty that Manziel will be that guy.

[kenneycb]

Te'o has good stats and all but I mean the Butkus winner generally puts up similar numbers every year. There's honestly nothing special about his season that merits Heisman IMO.

[Kremlin Watcher]

As good as Te'o is, you can easily find one linebacker in almost any year in CFB who has put up better statistics:

Derrick Johnson 2004: 130 tackles (73 solo), 19 TFL, 8 PBU, 2 sacks, 1 INT, 9 FF in 12 games

Manti Te'o 2012: 103 tackles (52 solo), 5.5 TFL, 4 PBU, 1.5 sacks, 7 INT, 0 FF in 12 games

If Te'o played for anyone other than the domers, he wouldn't be on anyone's Heisman list. There is just no way for a linebacker to be such a huge difference-maker the way the game is played these days.

Collin Klein has better numbers than Johnny Hate Crime in most categories, but my guess is that aggy wins it this year.

[Rossox]

Te'o has good stats and all but I mean the Butkus winner generally puts up similar numbers every year. There's honestly nothing special about his season that merits Heisman IMO.

I mean, seriously? Take off the ND hater blinders and read that sentence again. Nothing special? Really? This is not about stats, otherwise a defensive player (who doesn't play special teams) would NEVER be in the conversation.

[Rossox]

As good as Te'o is, you can easily find one linebacker in almost any year in CFB who has put up better statistics:

Derrick Johnson 2004: 130 tackles (73 solo), 19 TFL, 8 PBU, 2 sacks, 1 INT, 9 FF in 12 games

Manti Te'o 2012: 103 tackles (52 solo), 5.5 TFL, 4 PBU, 1.5 sacks, 7 INT, 0 FF in 12 games

If Te'o played for anyone other than the domers, he wouldn't be on anyone's Heisman list. There is just no way for a linebacker to be such a huge difference-maker the way the game is played these days.

Collin Klein has better numbers than Johnny Hate Crime in most categories, but my guess is that aggy wins it this year.

You mean, if Te'o played for anyone other than the #1 team in the country, he wouldn't be on anyone's Heisman list.

Guys, I get what you're saying here (Manti's stats, while impressive, do not scream Heisman), but clearly people cannot be objective enough when it comes to evaluating all-things Notre Dame.

[Dave Stapleton]

You mean, if Te'o played for anyone other than the #1 team in the country, he wouldn't be on anyone's Heisman list.

Guys, I get what you're saying here (Manti's stats, while impressive, do not scream Heisman), but clearly people cannot be objective enough when it comes to evaluating all-things Notre Dame.

And this goes both ways. You know what he meant by the domers comment. The hype machine is pretty special.

It would have been interesting if Kuechly stuck around another year. He wouldn't have won it (no matter what kind of season he had) but it would have torpedoed Te'o's chances since he would not have even been viewed as the best LB in the country.

[kenneycb]

You mean, if Te'o played for anyone other than the #1 team in the country, he wouldn't be on anyone's Heisman list.

Guys, I get what you're saying here (Manti's stats, while impressive, do not scream Heisman), but clearly people cannot be objective enough when it comes to evaluating all-things Notre Dame.

This part is hilarious.

[sachmoney]

Collin Klein has better numbers than Johnny Hate Crime in most categories, but my guess is that aggy wins it this year.

This is not true.

[kenneycb]

To add some additional substance to the discussion:

Manti Te'o 2012: 103 tackles (52 solo), 5.5 TFL, 4 PBU, 1.5 sacks, 7 INT, 0 FF in 12 games

Mark Herzlich 2008: 110 tackles (83 solo), 11.0 TFL, 2.5 sacks, 6 INT (2 TDs), 2 FF

Herzlich did not get one vote, though somehow Ray Maualuga did.

[Infield Infidel]

Generally, when a guy like herzy has great stats, it because the rest of the defense isn't good, so he's covering for mistakes of others.
There also were fewer tackles tks go around as compared to that B.C. team.

ND gave up 2 rushing TDs this season, and Teo is the leader of that defense.

[Rossox]

And this goes both ways. You know what he meant by the domers comment. The hype machine is pretty special.

It would have been interesting if Kuechly stuck around another year. He wouldn't have won it (no matter what kind of season he had) but it would have torpedoed Te'o's chances since he would not have even been viewed as the best LB in the country.

I agree on the hype machine, but definitely disagree on your second point. The Heisman doesn't always go to the best player, or the best pro prospect; and certainly a LB for an irrelevant football program would not have torpedoed Te'o's chances. Kuechly is awesome but this is more about being the best player on the #1 defense on the #1 team in the country vs. being the best player at your position IMO. You can always pull out stats to defend either side, but this award rarely, if ever, goes to players on sh*tty teams.

Anyway, it's fun to debate. I think Manziel will win, but I wouldn't be surprised if Manti did either, especially after all the hardware he took home last night.

But truthfully, doesn't anyone really care that much about the Heisman anymore?

[kenneycb]

Generally, when a guy like herzy has great stats, it because the rest of the defense isn't good, so he's covering for mistakes of others.
There also were fewer tackles tks go around as compared to that B.C. team.

ND gave up 2 rushing TDs this season, and Teo is the leader of that defense.

Except that wasn't the case that year. BC's defense was 17th in the nation in PPG and had Raji and Brace as the DTs as well as two future NFLers at LB. Kuechly, yes. But not that year.

[tims4wins]

I'm kind of a ND hater, but I had to vote for Te'o. From my view there wasn't much difference between Klein and Manziel, and it's not like either of them put up some uber-spectacular season compared to QBs of the past. So I'm going with the "story" - best D in the country, #1 team and only undefeated left. Te'o made tons of key plays for them and, as cliche as it is, was the heart and soul of the team.

It's not that different from a guy like Pedroia winning in a down year for other candidates... sure, his numbers weren't the greatest, but I don't really think Klein or Manziel is deserving.

[RedOctober3829]

Te'o had a similar season to Kuechly from last year and Kuechly didn't sniff the Top 10 of the vote. The best player in the country was Johnny Manziel and he deserves the Heisman.

[RingoOSU]

This is not true.

Hell, Klein struggled this year against teams that have virtually no defense to speak of.

[Kremlin Watcher]

And Manziel struggled against good defenses as well. He got rocked by LSU and Florida. His one great game against a good team happened to be on national TV against #1. That's what will win it for him. That and his stupid nickname.

[Infield Infidel]

Te'o had a similar season to Kuechly from last year and Kuechly didn't sniff the Top 10 of the vote. The best player in the country was Johnny Manziel and he deserves the Heisman.

As we all know, the quality of the team has a lot to do with Heisman voters. Had BC been undefeated, I'm sure Kuechly would have been nominated.

Except that wasn't the case that year. BC's defense was 17th in the nation in PPG and had Raji and Brace as the DTs as well as two future NFLers at LB. Kuechly, yes. But not that year.

I apologize, I mean Kuechly, not Herzy.

[maufman]

Jordan Lynch edges out Johnny Manziel for me.

Manti T'eo isn't even the best defensive player in the country. (That would be UGA's Jarvis Jones.)

[BigMike]

Jordan Lynch edges out Johnny Manziel for me.

Manti T'eo isn't even the best defensive player in the country. (That would be UGA's Jarvis Jones.)

I don't know if he is the best defensive player on his team. When I watch ND, Louis Nix is the guy who makes the whole defense work. That kid is just plain dominant.

[Dave Stapleton]

I didn't make my point very well. What I meant was that if Kuechly had the same season he had last year he would have again swept all of the D player awards. In that case, it would be difficult to award the Heisman to a player that's not even viewed as the best Defensive player.

I am making several assumptions here for sure. And I do agree Keeks tackle numbers were inflated by being on a bad D.

And Luke proved to be even better that we thought as he was really the only player the D lost and it went from average to pathetic overnight.

[PaulinMyrBch]

So we're clear.

Te'o isn't the best defender in college football (Clowney, Jones, etc)
Isn't the best LB in college football (Jones)
and isn't the best defensive player on his own team (Nix)
and wasn't as good as last years best defender (Kuechly)

but he's probably going to win because the best player in college football is a freshman.

Don't think I'll be watching tonight...

[kenneycb]

And because he plays on the #1 team. Which is important to SoSHers in football but not in baseball, apparently.

[axx]

All indications are Manziel wins in a landslide.

[Turrable]

When does the actual announcement happen?

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

When does the actual announcement happen?

Midnight. They drop a ball or have white smoke or something

[hawaiirsn]

I wonder if people didn't bother to learn how to pronounce Te'o or just physically can't say it right. Somewhat ridiculous at this point considering all the hype.

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

I wonder if people didn't bother to learn how to pronounce Te'o or just physically can't say it right. Somewhat ridiculous at this point considering all the hype.

People still can't pronounce Urlacher. People are stupid and lazy.

[Domer]

Why is 2005 missing on the touchscreen?

[hawaiirsn]

When Bush forfeited the trophy they didn't have a new winner, just vacated the award for the year.

Edited by hawaiirsn, 08 December 2012 - 08:50 PM.

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

Why is 2005 missing on the touchscreen?

The award was "vacated"

[Domer]

Thanks, Roethlisberger.

[Turrable]

Man, Mark Ingram set the bar way too high for Heisman speeches.

[canderson]

I hate him but he deserved to win.

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

Braxton Miller was 5th. That's a bit of a surprise.

[Kremlin Watcher]

Oh man, Texas is so fucked now. We'll be looking back on the Mackovic years with fond remembrance in a couple of seasons. Mack recruited this guy as a DB then didn't offer him over "character" issues.

[sachmoney]

Oh man, Texas is so fucked now. We'll be looking back on the Mackovic years with fond remembrance in a couple of seasons. Mack recruited this guy as a DB then didn't offer him over "character" issues.

He recruited the last two Heismans as defensive backs.

Edited by sachmoney, 09 December 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Jordan Lynch edges out Johnny Manziel for me.

Manti T'eo isn't even the best defensive player in the country. (That would be UGA's Jarvis Jones.)

Alabama just gained another 10 yards running right by Jones.