582 replies to this topic

[HillysLastWalk]

Small correction, Jenks was signed for the 2011 season, as part of the setup men for Papelbon.  Maybe they envisioned him eventually replacing Papelbon but his signing and salary were spent concurrently with Papelbon's in 2011.

 

The jury is still out on whether Papelbon would have been worth that big contract (in Boston and in the AL East). This is his second year of a 4 year deal.

 

Yes, I know.  I took liberty there (right or wrong), that this was a hint that a decent Jenks in 2011 would be the guy taking over for Papelbon.  It's definitely up for debate, but that's how I viewed it.  Regardless, Papelbon is making 13M this year, and 13M last year.  26M.  Whereas Jenks and Joel combine for 19M, and then there's Melancon, Sands, Reddick, etc. - they all have value.  So, it's pretty close right now.  There's a reason in the Win Prediction thread one of my enthusiastic bullet points was: "Awesome bullpen (if Joel Hanrahan cooperates)".  His walk rate, with the patient lineups you see in the AL, specifically the East, was looking like a disaster.  His body type, in his 30's, isn't helping either.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 07 May 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[trekfan55]

Yes, I know.  I took liberty there (right or wrong), that this was a hint that a decent Jenks in 2011 would be the guy taking over for Papelbon.  It's definitely up for debate, but that's how I viewed it.  Regardless, Papelbon is making 13M this year, and 13M last year.  26M.  Whereas Jenks and Joel combine for 19M, and then there's Melancon, Sands, Reddick, etc. - they all have value.  So, it's pretty close right now.  There's a reason in the Win Prediction thread one of my enthusiastic bullet points was: "Awesome bullpen (if Joel Hanrahan cooperates)".  His walk rate, with the patient lineups you see in the AL, specifically the East, was looking like a disaster.  His body type, in his 30's, isn't helping either.

 

I do get your point, but it is not really fair to combine Jenks´s and Hanrahan's salaries vs Papelbon's.

 

Jenks was paid 6MM in 2011 and reached some agreement to be bought out in 2012.  Hanrahan will be paid 7MM in 2013 (and we can assume that if he goes on the DL long term some will be covered by insurance).  Meanwhile Papelbon was paid 13MM in 2012 and will be paid 13MM in 2013 (and again in 2014 and 2015).

 

So the Sox are actually paying 7MM for Hanrahan plus 4.25MM for Uehara, 4.1 for Bailey, 2.32MM for Breslow, 1.475MM for Miller, 815K for Tazawa, 504K for Mortensen.  That´s 20.4MM for a for bullpen (numbers come from cots contracts).  While we may argue that Hanrahan will not be worth the 7MM he commands I think in the end the Sox used their resources a lot better in the bullpen and elsewhere at least this year.

 

BTW, I did not factor pitchers in the minors like Bard and Aceves because my point is what they are spending on their current bullpen including Hanrahan and Bailey, not the entire payroll.

[Sox and Rocks]

It seems to me that the problem isn't that the Sox decided against paying a proven closer and, thus, re-signing Papelbon, but rather that they didn't fully trust the plan.  In other words, they tried to hedge their bet by acquiring cheaper, but still somewhat proven closers for the role (Bailey, Melancon, and now Hanrahan). 

 

If the Sox don't feel a "proven" closer is an effecient use of resources, then there is no reason to trade for and pay for any player with past closing success.  If Papelbon, who is a better closer than his replacements in Boston, is overpaid, then the market will also dictate overpaying for those closers who are a notch below him. 

 

They should have trusted their strategy more and signed succesful relief pitchers, at a discount, with the hopes of turning one of them into the closer or going with the committee approach.  Instead they continued chasing the "proven," or at least experienced, closer, and wasted further resources (both money and players via trade).

[HillysLastWalk]

Yeah, Sox and Rocks, so instead of not signing the "proven" closer (fine, I'm cool), they decided to sign/trade for fat turds with walk issues or guys that break when the wind blows.  Sign, heck over-pay for power arms, even if they aren't a closer.  But the lack of concern with health and/or fitness with this team is curious, to say the least (and I'm saying that after reading the Adrian Gonzalez comments about his shoulder and how he never has or will regain strength that made him the hitter he was in San Diego).

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 07 May 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[Corsi]

Allen Webster is here.

https://twitter.com/...850334345506816

 

Doubront to the pen?

[Red(s)HawksFan]

https://twitter.com/...850334345506816

 

Doubront to the pen?

 

That seems counter-productive for what is likely a short-term fix.  More likely, Webster will be the long man in the same manner in which Steven Wright was used. Only hopefully, Farrell won't be quite as reluctant to hand him the ball.

[SouthernBoSox]

Interesting.  I don't really favor Webster working out of the pen.  He went 6 innings last time out.  Gave up 1 run on 2 hits while striking out 9 and getting a ton of grounders.   He has a monster ceiling as a starter.  But......

 

....they may think so much of his arm though thats he's first in line right now.  If he is just a short term long man then why not bring up Aceves to piggy back Dempster?  

 

I'm think they might see some legitimate set-up potential this season for Webster.  Maybe play the role we thought Taz would play.  Multiple inning high leverage reliever. 

Edited by SouthernBoSox, 07 May 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

Well, with Doubrant following Dempster, maybe the thinking is that Dempster takes one for the team tonight and Webster is here if they short-leash Doubrant

[Rasputin]

Well, with Doubrant following Dempster, maybe the thinking is that Dempster takes one for the team tonight and Webster is here if they short-leash Doubrant

 

I'm not singling you out, believe me, but it's fucking Doubront. There is no fucking A. It doesn't sound like it has an A. It doesn't look like it has an A and half SoSH think it's spelled with a goddamn A and it's driving me fucking bananas.

[Corsi]

Speier:

 

Webster will get a start - not tonight (Dempster). Guessing it would be Wed, w/Doubront getting an extra day if not needed in pen tonight

https://twitter.com/...855935863681025

[Lose Remerswaal]

Interesting.  I don't really favor Webster working out of the pen.  He went 6 innings last time out.  Gave up 1 run on 2 hits while striking out 9 and getting a ton of grounders.   He has a monster ceiling as a starter.  But......

 

....they may think so much of his arm though thats he's first in line right now.  If he is just a short term long man then why not bring up Aceves to piggy back Dempster?  

 

I'm think they might see some legitimate set-up potential this season for Webster.  Maybe play the role we thought Taz would play.  Multiple inning high leverage reliever. 

 

Which of Aceves' 5 appearances for the parent club this year makes you think he's capable of helping?  Bet you can't name more than one that was acceptable.

 

Please feel free to review this thread if you need to reaquaint yourself with the magnificence that is Alfredo Aceves.

Edited by Lose Remerswaal, 07 May 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[smastroyin]

I like the idea of Webster getting another start and Doubront being the emergency guy tonight (and for Webster tomorrow), but part of me thinks Doubront's start should then be skipped, depending on how much the pen is needed the next couple of days.  Among other things, with Buchholz and Lester pitching so well (yes, I know they have each had recent poor starts) the Red Sox should be maxxing out their starts.  Of course, if people really believe the extra day's rest will help them out in the long run, then by all means do it. 

[SouthernBoSox]

Which of Aceves' 5 appearances for the parent club this year makes you think he's capable of helping?  Bet you can't name more than one that was acceptable.

 

Please feel free to review this thread if you need to reaquaint yourself with the magnificence that is Alfredo Aceves.

My point, which was very simple, is that if you just need a fresh arm for a long man purposes then there is no reason not to use Aceves in that role tonight.  He is scheduled to pitch tonight, his arm is fresh, and if you're just looking for someone to save some arms tonight he is the easy choice.

 

The Red Sox aren't going that route as is appears Webster will be getting a start.  

[Lose Remerswaal]

Exactly.  Because "signs" or no "signs", Aceves is not the answer to any questions the major league club has right now.

[mwonow]

I think most would agree that less Miller would be a good thing - but we have less Bailey and Hanrahan, too. If Taz and Koji are the 8th/9th guys, where does Breslow slot after them?

nm - looks like Breslow is the answer to a question I'd rather not be asking...

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

nm - looks like Breslow is the answer to a question I'd rather not be asking...

As long as the question is "who should I not be making a judgement on yet?" then yes he is.

Edited by Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat, 07 May 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[Plympton91]

Have to question whether that was the right moment for him to work back to back games for the first time all season. Breslow is basically in about the third week of March in spring training.

Edited by Plympton91, 07 May 2013 - 09:29 PM.

[BoSoxGirl75]

@bradfo: Cherington on @Weei says Jose De La Torre will be called up today

[Red(s)HawksFan]

@bradfo: Cherington on @Weei says Jose De La Torre will be called up today

 

Webster going back to Pawtucket to make room on the 25-man, but no announcement on how they're clearing 40-man space for De La Torre.  Morales to the 60-day DL?

[ShaneTrot]

Webster going back to Pawtucket to make room on the 25-man, but no announcement on how they're clearing 40-man space for De La Torre.  Morales to the 60-day DL?

Morales pitched two scoreless innings for Portland last night. He is apparently on the mend.

[richgedman'sghost]

Webster going back to Pawtucket to make room on the 25-man, but no announcement on how they're clearing 40-man space for De La Torre.  Morales to the 60-day DL?

Well with the news that Hanrahan is going to visit Dr. Andrews and will probably need Tommy John surgery, I think he is your candidate for the 60 day DL.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Morales pitched two scoreless innings for Portland last night. He is apparently on the mend.

 

Good to know.  They had shut him down again which I believe resets his rehab clock, so he's got 30 days.  If they intend to stretch him out as a starter, he'll need most of those 30 days to do so.  Shifting him to the 60-day DL would mean he isn't eligible to return until May 31 (his 60 days is retroactive to when he was added to the DL on 3/31).  If they have no intention or expectation that he could be ready to pitch for the big club until he's done his full rehab stint, they could get away with putting him on the 60-day.  But given their bullpen situation, they may not want to handcuff themselves and not have him available to come back to the bullpen sooner.

 

So, option 2...DFA Aceves?

[LeoCarrillo]

Well with the news that Hanrahan is going to visit Dr. Andrews and will probably need Tommy John surgery, I think he is your candidate for the 60 day DL.

Per Pete Abe: Joel Hanrahan ... will visit Dr. James Andrews on Friday.


Maybe they're trying to squeeze him in for an exam today and get an answer.

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 09 May 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[soxhop411]

Chris Hatfield ‏@SPChrisHatfield1m

Just realized Holt not listed here. Potentially DFA for De La Torre. RT @PawSox

 

BJ0q7mlCAAI33jL.jpg

Edited by soxhop411, 09 May 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[Plympton91]

Chris Hatfield ‏@SPChrisHatfield1m

Just realized Holt not listed here. Potentially DFA for De La Torre. RT @PawSox

 

BJ0q7mlCAAI33jL.jpg

 

How fitting, the consolation prize in the Hanrahan trade needs to be DFA'ed because of Hanrahan's injury.

 

And Aceves pitched 7 innings on Tuesday, so he wouldn't be much help until at least Saturday; hence the need to pass him over regardless of any performance or clubhouse cultural reasons for doing so.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

@TimBritton

Red Sox source says Holt was on the lineup card given to the umpire. Might just be a typo or oversight in the clubhouse.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Well with the news that Hanrahan is going to visit Dr. Andrews and will probably need Tommy John surgery, I think he is your candidate for the 60 day DL.

 

Where did you see this?  I must have missed that post.

[LeoCarrillo]

Interesting that on the day JDLT gets called up, Kyle Kaminska retires from baseball at age 24.

 

http://salemsox.mlbl...leheader-notes/

 

They are (were) the two remnants in the organization from the trading of Youkilis. (JDLT for Brent Lillibridge; Kaminska for Zach Stewart)

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 09 May 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[soxhop411]

Ian Browne ‏@IanMBrowne28s

Sox have signed veteran lefty reliever Rafael Perez to a Minor League deal. He is likely to start at Double-A. Thanks to @MLBastian for tip.

 

3.64 career ERA with a 7.3 SO/9 ratio

http://www.baseball-...perezra01.shtml

Edited by soxhop411, 23 May 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[aksoxfan]

^{A healthy Franklin Morales would be a nice addition at this point.} 

Edited by aksoxfan, 24 May 2013 - 12:15 AM.

[Lose Remerswaal]

^{A healthy Franklin Morales would be a nice addition at this point.} 

 

To the bullpen?  Or as a Ryan Dempster replacement when they say he has "a tired arm"?

[aksoxfan]

To the bullpen?  Or as a Ryan Dempster replacement when they say he has "a tired arm"?

I was thinking the latter, but it would be fine to see him in the pen.

[P'tucket, rhymes with...]

I can see them using Morales to give everyone in the rotation a break over the course of the season, certainly the back end.