54 replies to this topic

[Sausage in Section 17]

Seems like we're overdue for this thread. It is officially the season, and I was lucky enough to kick it off this past weekend by making the trek with my 13 year old daughter over to the Rockies to ski at Lake Louise and watch Lindsey Vonn prove again why she is the easily the best American racer ever, and perhaps soon to be the best female racer of all time.

Having grown up skiing in Vermont, it was a priority when raising my family to live somewhere that had easy access to skiing and other winter recreation, as these things are critical to my sanity, and also just part of a lifestyle that I really enjoy and want to share with my kids. We bounced around the West (North Idaho, Oregon) a few years, and enjoyed some great skiing in those places, especially in comparison to what I had experienced in the East. I have great fondness and respect for the Vermont ski areas where I cut my teeth (and scraped my bases) in the early years. I would still love to go back and ski the trees at Jay Peak, Mad River, or hit Stowe on a good day.

But as we all know, the good days and the good snow just come a lot more often out West, so when the stars finally aligned career-wise for my wife and I, we jumped when the chance came to settle in B.C. 3 years ago, and since then, well, things have gone according to plan and then some. We have an amazing all-around resort right where we live called Silver Star, which is high enough to have consistent dry snow and is all I could ever ask for as a place for our kids.It may lack a little on the higher end challenge and tree skiing, but all anyone could ever handle in that regard is also just 2 hours away in Revelstoke. I have family a few hours away at Red Mountain where we'll spend Xmas. It's is a small resort, but is tough to beat when the snow is there. Each winter we're here and I explore other resorts, my powder woody gets colder and stiffer. Yeah, I'm livin' the dream, insert S.S. 17 comments here, lolboohoo!

In all seriousness, if any of you ever take the trouble to come way out here, I'd be glad to meet you for a day on the slopes, and first round apres-ski is on me. The resorts near where I live Silver Star, and Big White are not where most people would go if they were going to come as far as B.C., but Revelstoke is definitely one of the best resorts in North America, so if any of you fools are headed this way and want to get together, just lemme know.

I knew the Rockies were getting lots on snow where more locally the early season storms were a mix of snow and rain, so even though our hill was just opening, we headed to Lake Louise for the first time ever this past weekend and had about the best start to a season we could have asked for as far as conditions went. The whole mountain was open, and we were able to explore their back bowl areas which are a great mix of open alpine, glades, and trails. One nice thing about Lake Louise is there are green and blue runs off of every lift, so it makes it easy for groups of all levels to ski together. It was just me and my daughter though, and at age 13, I am now officially struggling to keep up with her. This will only get worse. L.L. is spectacular, both the terrain, and the scenery and we had an amazing 2 days. I was trying to include some pics, but having trouble with the link.

It was the first time either of us had been to a race of just about any level, let alone World Cup. We caught pieces of the first downhill race on Friday, but there were big fog delays, so we missed seeing Vonn ski from up close. If you didn't see her results from this weekend, she proved gain why she is right to be asking to race the men. She won by 1.73 seconds, a huge margin in downhill, and what was even more telling was that margin was the same as between 2nd and 21st place. When she is on, she has no peers among the women. My daughter was thrilled to be able meet, chat and get a picture with her. She won again on Saturday, this time after making a big mistake on the top part of the course, dropping behind the leader on the intermediate times, and then miraculously making it back up as only she could. My daughter was thrilled and it was amazing to see the entourage that Vonn is generating these days. She had a flock of about 40 girls between 7-14 following her around and yelling her name all afternoon. She spent a lot of time with all of them on the way out, a really graceful, positive role model who seems to understand the position of influence she's in. We left early Sunday and couldn't stick around to see her again, but she won the Super G as well, making the second year in a row she swept the 3 events at Lake Louise. She's Pedro-level good.

Anyway, that's our story of how we kicked off the season, a little long winded, I know. Mostly I has hoping to hear how everyone else's season is shaping up. Anybody else been out yet? Got any plans for trips further afield? What are the best places you've been? There are so many types of skiing and ways of getting out and having fun, and it would be great to hear what everyone else is doing, no matter how small or grand. Enjoy the season!

[jk333]

I bought a 4-pack at Sugarbush for $199; its a resort that I've never been to before. Are there any thoughts on it? I've heard that Mount Ellen is usually empty but that Castlerock has some of the best skiing in the east.

For other trips, I'm planning on doing a Wildcat/Cranmore weekend in Conway, a trip to Loon and other trips depending on how the season goes for snow.

[Hildy]

We bought that 4 pack as well--Sugarbush is a fun mountain that skiis big. My brother is a ski host there and has taken the kids into the side country between the two peaks, and they all report its worth the effort.
We also are doing the Bolton Valley thing again--got four four packs at 100 dolla apiece. Half the price of Sugarbush and admittedly a smaller mountain, but you get a ton of value for that money.
Really, really want to go west this year. Probably not feasible, but really wanna.

[JakeRae]

This was the worst November ever in Colorado on the heels of the worst ski season anyone I know can remember. Here's hoping the jet stream really does move South this week and brings some moisture with it. We are hurting out here.

[MentalDisabldLst]

While we're talking about ski deals, if you're thinking about a couple ski weekends this winter, here's some news you can use:

The Ski and Ride Card - $25 (with voucher) or $49 (without) - gets you savings at a whole bunch of new england and quebec mountains, as well as lodging discounts.

Vermont Travel Club Membership - $39 to 44 without discounts, though there are some discounts floating about. Lift ticket discounts at a smaller but better group of mountains, plus some lodging deals and combos.

As for myself, after 11 years of skiing only in the northeast, I'm finally getting my first trip out to Colorado this February (president's day week). Staying at a condo in Dillon, CO, right near Keystone, A-Basin, Breck, Copper Mtn and others, with some friends. Already bought my epic (local) pass.

Planning to warm up with a 4-day weekend at Smuggs and Jay Peak over super bowl weekend. I should probably start on the DukeSox memorial ski season workout plan, like real soon now.

[teddykgb]

Don't skip A-Basin, it's not as close as you'd like but it's totally worth it. You can also usually snag 2 for 1 passes to Copper at local gas stations if you fill up, which is a great value, copper is a cool mountain and a great way to avoid spending too much on lift tickets. The difference is night and day between East and West coast

[DukeSox]

I bought a 4-pack at Sugarbush for $199; its a resort that I've never been to before. Are there any thoughts on it? I've heard that Mount Ellen is usually empty but that Castlerock has some of the best skiing in the east.

My home mountain growing up. It's big, and you'll like it. Not as name-brand as Stowe or Killington, which is nice, as it attracts fewer flatlanders. They'll still be out in force over holiday weekends though. Mt Ellen is usually emptier, but it's smaller too -- depending on your ability you may get bored with more than a half-day there, unless the conditions are great. Conditions will vary between the two mountains, so check that morning. Castlerock, if there is a good base (ie it's open), will challenge anyone.

Planning to warm up with a 4-day weekend at Smuggs and Jay Peak over super bowl weekend. I should probably start on the DukeSox memorial ski season workout plan, like real soon now.

Nice. Smuggs was where I learned to ski before moving over to Da Bush (great family mountain) -- also it has a "triple black" trail. Jay Peak is far away but well worth the trip, they usually get the best snow in Vermont. And it's cheaper.

Do squats -- even without weights-- and take the stairs; easy to do and you can do them every day.

[bohous]

My brother and I did one of these Boston Ski and Sports Club day trips last year. We hit Jay Peak hoping there might actually be more snow further north (there wasn't). It was a good way to hit a new mountain that I would never do as a day trip on my own since the drive home is always brutal after a full day skiing. Its a good value and you get discount on rentals if you need them. We'll likely do a couple of these trips again this year.

[wibi]

This was the worst November ever in Colorado on the heels of the worst ski season anyone I know can remember. Here's hoping the jet stream really does move South this week and brings some moisture with it. We are hurting out here.

Utah is dying at this point too.
http://www.skiutah.c...eas/snow-report

[JakeRae]

While we're talking about ski deals, if you're thinking about a couple ski weekends this winter, here's some news you can use:

The Ski and Ride Card - $25 (with voucher) or $49 (without) - gets you savings at a whole bunch of new england and quebec mountains, as well as lodging discounts.

Vermont Travel Club Membership - $39 to 44 without discounts, though there are some discounts floating about. Lift ticket discounts at a smaller but better group of mountains, plus some lodging deals and combos.

As for myself, after 11 years of skiing only in the northeast, I'm finally getting my first trip out to Colorado this February (president's day week). Staying at a condo in Dillon, CO, right near Keystone, A-Basin, Breck, Copper Mtn and others, with some friends. Already bought my epic (local) pass.

Planning to warm up with a 4-day weekend at Smuggs and Jay Peak over super bowl weekend. I should probably start on the DukeSox memorial ski season workout plan, like real soon now.

Feel free to let me know when you get out here. I'll be pretty slammed with work that week, but you are pretty much in my backyard. If you want any personalized terrain advice, send me a PM. I know Breck and Copper inside and out and am very familiar with the other mountains in the region.

[graffam198]

The last storm dropped 48" of snow in the tahoe area, above 8000 feet though. So most of the resorts got rained on with limited accumulation. Mt. Rose was the exception, and I have been up twice now. Not the best snow, but one of the better December ski seasons I can remember. Looks like CO and UT are next though on big storm dump if the low pressure over Japan/Siberia makes its way across the Pacific like the forecast calls for. Fingers crossed.

[Fred not Lynn]

Great thread start, SS17. Western Canada certainly has some great places to ski. If you have a chance, get over to Fernie, too. The good news is that on a clear day, it can be an overwhelmingly beautiful place to ski. The bad news is there aren't many clear days. The good news is that that's because it snows there pretty much non-stop. Needless to say, Whistler will amaze you. Sure, it is expensive, but there's a reason for that.

Personally, I like Big White over Silver Star - but they're both nice.

I recently semi-temporarily moved to Salt Lake City, and have been out twice now. Sunday at Snowbird, and Wednesday at Brighton. The great thing about SLC is that you're in a major city that's basically the same distance as some resort towns from the ski areas. I am on the far west side of the city, and 40 min from both of the above resorts - with 20 min of that driving being across the city.

Snowbird on Sunday was VERY windy. I got two runs from the summit in before they closed the tram due to 75 mph wind gusts, then skied the lower chair the rest of the day. It got a little repetitive - but it was my first time out for the season. I was happy just to be there. Yesterday at Brighton, it was all-day snowfall. That's a generally good thing at this point in the season. Brighton feels like a city hill, built around families coming out for night skiing and other non-high end resort activity. I liked the really cool old original lodge with the bar upstairs. Yetserday they had a deal where you ski for $20 with a donation to toys-for-tots, and the next two Wednesdays they have similar things with coats or socks for the homeless, and food bank donation. I'll be up for both.

I have learned that no one who lives here pays full freight for their lift tickets - a little internet rummaging and you're going to land on some 2-1 passes, or someone's coupon they can't use. Anyone with any more Utah tips, feel free to share...

[Sausage in Section 17]

FNL, Definitely checked out Fernie a few times when I lived in N. Idaho. Agreed, it is a beautiful place to ski, with plenty of challenge. My only critique is of their layout. They either have too much terrain, or too few lifts. It was hard to get from one area of the mountain over to the other without burning an hour on lifts or traversing. But I quibble, it's gorgeous.

I haven't been back to ski at Whistler since we moved here, and am unlikely to go to the trouble as there seems little point to travelling that far when I've Silver Star, Big White, Revelstoke, Sun Peaks, and Kicking Horse all closer. It remains, however, the site of my best all time ski day. I was still living in VT when I came out and visitied a friend, and he and I were there on a day when it had been snowing 8-12" for the 3 days prior and dumped all day when I was there. All day waist and chest deep in the trees, I haven't had anything like that since, even when I took a cat-ski trip a few years ago.

Speaking of which, for those who are thinking of a trip out this way, there are quite a few areas that can facilitate a day of cat skiing to go along with a lift/lodging package for the other days at their resort. When I did it, it was at Red Mountain (about 2 hours north of Spokane) with an outfit called Big Red Cats. You can usually get a day for ~$300, whivch if you're going to all the trouble and expense of coming that far anyway, you really should take advantage of.

[graffam198]

Great thread start, SS17. Western Canada certainly has some great places to ski. If you have a chance, get over to Fernie, too. The good news is that on a clear day, it can be an overwhelmingly beautiful place to ski. The bad news is there aren't many clear days. The good news is that that's because it snows there pretty much non-stop. Needless to say, Whistler will amaze you. Sure, it is expensive, but there's a reason for that.

Personally, I like Big White over Silver Star - but they're both nice.

I recently semi-temporarily moved to Salt Lake City, and have been out twice now. Sunday at Snowbird, and Wednesday at Brighton. The great thing about SLC is that you're in a major city that's basically the same distance as some resort towns from the ski areas. I am on the far west side of the city, and 40 min from both of the above resorts - with 20 min of that driving being across the city.

Snowbird on Sunday was VERY windy. I got two runs from the summit in before they closed the tram due to 75 mph wind gusts, then skied the lower chair the rest of the day. It got a little repetitive - but it was my first time out for the season. I was happy just to be there. Yesterday at Brighton, it was all-day snowfall. That's a generally good thing at this point in the season. Brighton feels like a city hill, built around families coming out for night skiing and other non-high end resort activity. I liked the really cool old original lodge with the bar upstairs. Yetserday they had a deal where you ski for $20 with a donation to toys-for-tots, and the next two Wednesdays they have similar things with coats or socks for the homeless, and food bank donation. I'll be up for both.

I have learned that no one who lives here pays full freight for their lift tickets - a little internet rummaging and you're going to land on some 2-1 passes, or someone's coupon they can't use. Anyone with any more Utah tips, feel free to share...

Powder mountain dude. You can cat ski or heli ski for cheap, something like 75 bucks for a one run heli ski and 30 bucks for cat skiing w/a guide. Go to their webpage and do some digging, it is on there and it is awesome.

Edit: Maybe not anymore...Last season you could do a single ride, looking again, I don't see it...But you can still do a cat ride for 18 bucks.

Edited by graffam198, 07 December 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[epraz]

I recently semi-temporarily moved to Salt Lake City, and have been out twice now. Sunday at Snowbird, and Wednesday at Brighton. The great thing about SLC is that you're in a major city that's basically the same distance as some resort towns from the ski areas. I am on the far west side of the city, and 40 min from both of the above resorts - with 20 min of that driving being across the city.

My fiancee and I are considering the SLC area for a 5-7 day trip in late Feb/early March. Any recommendations? Where should we stay? We're both good skiers but very casual.

Edited by epraz, 07 December 2012 - 10:48 PM.

[wibi]

My fiancee and I are considering the SLC area for a 5-7 day trip in late Feb/early March. Any recommendations? Where should we stay? We're both good skiers but very casual.

Powder or Flats?

I would personally stay in SLC rather than on the mountain(s) as the premiums arent worth it IMHO.

[wibi]

I have learned that no one who lives here pays full freight for their lift tickets - a little internet rummaging and you're going to land on some 2-1 passes, or someone's coupon they can't use. Anyone with any more Utah tips, feel free to share...

Avoid Park City and the Canyons resort.

Dont decide you are going to ski until you see the snow report in the AM because there are going to be enough good days that you will be able to be picky (since you live here)

Use the OREC program at the U (if you are eligible)

Ski Snowbasin at least once this year (its the hidden gem of the Utah resorts)

Take a lesson (even if you are an expert skier; I went from good to Ski Patrol capable thanks to one good lesson about 8 years ago)

Figure out how to ski on the weekdays when possible as weekends are when tourists ski. The best powder days I've ever had were "sick" days where there was 18 - 24 inches of new snow the night before

Buy good boots and DEMO skis instead of buying skis

[wibi]

Forgot one

Dont plan on skiing between Christmas and New Years unless you want to stand in lines

[Fred not Lynn]

Avoid Park City and the Canyons resort.

Use the OREC program at the U (if you are eligible)

What's the OREC program? I have zero ties at all to U of U at this time, so I am probably not eligible anyway.

And why avoid PC & Canyons? They aren't top of my list anyway, but even against your advice I'll go check them out once. I probably won't try to ski between Christmas and New Years anyway - if I did, I hear Solitude is the best place to go on a day that could be crowded. Is this true?

[epraz]

Powder or Flats?

I would personally stay in SLC rather than on the mountain(s) as the premiums arent worth it IMHO.

Most of my skiing's been done on the east coast, hers on-piste in France, so...flats.

[wibi]

What's the OREC program? I have zero ties at all to U of U at this time, so I am probably not eligible anyway.

And why avoid PC & Canyons? They aren't top of my list anyway, but even against your advice I'll go check them out once. I probably won't try to ski between Christmas and New Years anyway - if I did, I hear Solitude is the best place to go on a day that could be crowded. Is this true?

OREC is their Outdoor Recreation program. Its got great lift ticket deals if you can.

PC and Canyons are overpriced for what you get. PC you are paying to ski with celebrities and the Canyons terrain (its only major selling point) can be found at Snowbasin or Deer Valley just as easily and for cheaper.

Solitude is the best unknown spot in the two canyons (big and little) but for me Snowbasin almost always has no one there even on the most crowded of days.

[tims4wins]

9 inches at Vail last night, 11 at Beaver Creek. Checking to see if they actually opened up more terrain yet.

Edit: Vail only shows 18 runs open (out of 193), 3% of terrain. Ugh.

Edited by tims4wins, 09 December 2012 - 12:23 PM.

[Stanley Steamer]

Great early season coverage up top at Red Resort in Rossland, BC, but thin down low. They are expanding terrain this year, with a new (pre-owned) lift set to be installed on Mt. Grey next year. We offer old school amenities, but consistently good snow and steep trees. Come check us out-- fly to Spokane and drive up.

[Fred not Lynn]

...but for me Snowbasin almost always has no one there even on the most crowded of days.

What is this, The Yogi Berra Ski Report?

I skiied Brighton again today. $20 Lift ticket with donation of a coat for the homeless - so I swung by DI* and got a $4 jacket last night, and donated it this morning. It was a little windy early, but not bad. Cloudy all day. I spent most of my time in the trees. Brighton seems to have a lot of great little tree skiing nooks and crannies.

*DI is Deseret Industries - a chain of thrift stores run by the LDS church, and a Utah institution.

[Sausage in Section 17]

Just so you guys know that even out here in the land of milk and honey (or powder and no lift lines?), there are days like today when I'm sitting in a cubicle after it snowed another foot last night. Topping it off is that today is the day that Silver Star opened it's "backside", where most of the best terrain on the mountain is. Usually the backside, aka Powder Gulch, opens a week or so after the frontside due to the logisitics involved in getting everything ready over there. So on the day the backside opens, it is completely untracked. With the 3+ feet that was already covering those trials, plus the extra foot or so we got last night, today they have what one of their managers referred to as, "heli-skiing for the price of a lift ticket."

Tomorrow awaits. It will be very good, but not like today.

Here's the article talking about Silver Star's "Dark Side": http://www.vancouver...486/story.html?
utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canwest%2FF260+(Vancouver+Sun+-+Sports)

[JakeRae]

Just so you guys know that even out here in the land of milk and honey (or powder and no lift lines?), there are days like today when I'm sitting in a cubicle after it snowed another foot last night. Topping it off is that today is the day that Silver Star opened it's "backside", where most of the best terrain on the mountain is. Usually the backside, aka Powder Gulch, opens a week or so after the frontside due to the logisitics involved in getting everything ready over there. So on the day the backside opens, it is completely untracked. With the 3+ feet that was already covering those trials, plus the extra foot or so we got last night, today they have what one of their managers referred to as, "heli-skiing for the price of a lift ticket."

Tomorrow awaits. It will be very good, but not like today.

Here's the article talking about Silver Star's "Dark Side": http://www.vancouver...486/story.html?
utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canwest%2FF260+(Vancouver+Sun+-+Sports)

For those planning Colorado trips, at the current pace, if you get here in mid-January you may be just in time for this type of day...

[Stanley Steamer]

At the risk of making this thread BC-centric, just need to say that conditions have achieved "epic" status here at Red, with almost 3 feet of dry powder arriving in the past five days. I could only get out for 2+ hours before my kids' Christmas concert at school today, but got in four heavenly runs, each about 2500 vertical feet. I finaigled tomorrow morning off, so plan on going back for more. My bro, SS17, has been posting about Silver Star, where conditions must be similar. We grew up Sox fans skiing the hills of Vermont. A friend used to say those who move out West "just can't hack it" in the East. I now count myself among that number. It's worth it, but makes it difficult getting to Fenway.

[wibi]

Utah finally has snow

[jk333]

Sugarloaf in Maine has picked up 36" at the summit over the past 3 days and Wildcat received 24" at the summit. The higher elevations in northern New England did well this week. Still, Wildcat is only 35% open; the middle of the mountain doesn't have enough snow and Peak is [presumably] focusing snowmaking on Attitash at this point. Jay Peak is in similar shape.

Sugarloaf is doing the best.

[jk333]

Sugarloaf in Maine has picked up 36" at the summit over the past 3 days and Wildcat received 24" at the summit. The higher elevations in northern New England did well this week. Still, Wildcat is only 35% open; the middle of the mountain doesn't have enough snow and Peak is [presumably] focusing snowmaking on Attitash at this point. Jay Peak is in similar shape.

Sugarloaf is doing the best.

[04101Seadog]

Saddleback is right up there as well. They've got 34 with another foot or so coming tomorrow and are still running $29 tickets i believe.

[Fred not Lynn]

Up at Brighton in Utah yesterday, beautifully sunny day - and probably some decent powder if you get there early (as in not at 1 pm like me).


It was the last $20 Wednesday (food bank donation this time), do I am not sure when my next day out will be.

[Hildy]

Have you guys run across this piece in the NY Times about an avalanche last year in Tunnel Creek? Amazing online journalism....
http://www.nytimes.c...rt=tunnel-creek

[Pearl Wilson]

Yes, it has its own thread.

[Pearl Wilson]

My comment in the media forum thread is more relevant to the skiing thread so I'm cross-posting it here.

As I interpreted it (the article linked by Hildy), the biggest problem of all was the route chosen by Rudolph (the Marketing guy). Some of the locals did not go that way (they went left and away from a known avalanche-prone area). Other locals followed Rudolph with some trepidation. The visiting heavies followed Rudolph because they trusted him and did not know any better. Rudolph was - apparently - not acting in an official capacity, but the article is fairly clear that the resort does actively promote ticket sales to those intending to ski the back side. Hosting industry leaders on a powder run is one good way to do that and is arguably within Rudolph's job description.

Being able to ski out of bounds from a lift served area really lowers the barrier to entry which normally would require more of a hike including observation and possible testing of the snow pack and some deliberation about the plan.

[Slow Rheal]

It was poor judgment, plain and simple. Everything leading up to that was a red flag of some sort (over the course of a couple of weeks), and for a number of reasons, they were all dismissed. Everyone seemed to question the decisions at some point, and only three people in that enormous group decided to play it safer - three locals, who had the knowledge of were to go. Everyone else had to rely on the knowledge of the others.

That was a devastating day. I would consider seven of the people in that group good friends of mine, whom I've known for anywhere from two to twenty years - Chris and Jim Jack included. I can say for fact that not one of the surviving members from that day will ever look at backcountry skiing the same, and some won't ever venture back again.

It's a really well written article, and should be taken incredibly seriously. Unfortunately, with the prevalence of backcountry access gates at resorts, we're going to continue seeing incidents like this - the majority of the time it will be with people who aren't supposed to be there, but even the best get caught sometimes. There's no control, it's nature's will, you can only mitigate the elements so much, and not going back there is the only 100% safe route.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Unfortunately, with the prevalence of backcountry access gates at resorts, we're going to continue seeing incidents like this - the majority of the time it will be with people who aren't supposed to be there, but even the best get caught sometimes. There's no control, it's nature's will, you can only mitigate the elements so much, and not going back there is the only 100% safe route.

I agree with this and I have to say that I too have been guilty of being stupid in the backcountry when I was younger. And my take on this well written piece is that it won't reach the people who need to read it the most - the young skiers and, in particular, snowboarders (because of the relatively easy learning curve) who have the perfect mix of youthful bravado and impulsiveness that leads them to take unnecessary risks.

This isn't to say that all young people are foolish. There are plenty of youthful skiers and boarders who are well versed in mountain safety. However there are many others, who are inspired by the wealth of extreme riding movies and videos, to venture out in the backcountry in the hopes of emulating the pros. Again, I speak from experience in that regard and am a fucking lucky fool that I wasn't killed by a slide or by falling in a tree well where no one would ever come to help me.

The resorts are clearly enabling this sort of thing (it sells tickets) - I have seen several resorts in the Tahoe area add lifts that take riders even further up the mountain where it is much easier for them to access the out of bounds area. Before, if someone really wanted to ski the backcountry, they had to at least work for it - now its just a short hike from the high-speed lift.

Edited by DeJesus Built My Hotrod, 24 December 2012 - 05:27 PM.

[Slow Rheal]

The skiing from central to southwestern Colorado is fantastic right now - Aspen, Crested Butte, Telluride, and Silverton are loaded.

Can't speak for the rest of the I-70 resorts, but I'm guessing they're in real good shape too

[Hildy]

That was a devastating day. I would consider seven of the people in that group good friends of mine, whom I've known for anywhere from two to twenty years - Chris and Jim Jack included. I can say for fact that not one of the surviving members from that day will ever look at backcountry skiing the same, and some won't ever venture back again.

I must admit that I posted the story because it was good writing and the interactive elements were so compelling, without giving a thought to the fact that it might hit close to home for some posters. I apologize for the thoughtlessness, Slow Rheal, and I'm sorry that you lost your friends so tragically.
I'm pretty paranoid about skiing the back country, but have to say if I were skiing in a group made up of so many expert skiers and locals, I would probably have trusted their judgement and stifled my paranoia. I can only assume that something like that was going on....

[teddykgb]

That Snow Fall article arouses so many various emotions I barely know how to deal with them. Not that I know any of those people, but the forced introspection at all of the bad decisions I've made while not even 1/1000th of the skier these people were is a really scary thing.

[Sausage in Section 17]

Also really sorry for your loss, Slow Rheal.

I took an avalanche awareness course a few years back and one piece of data they shared still sticks with me: Having training in avalanche safety or snow science has actually been a factor correlated with increased risk of dying in an avalanche. Now of course, correlation is not cause, and yeah, if you know you're going into hazardous terrain it only makes sense that you would try for some preparation. But I think it speaks strongly to the reality that making these sorts of assessments is very far from a sure thing. Sometimes the initial training you get only results in a misplaced sense of increased confidence. I think this effect is also aided by the proliferation of all the gear out there (transceivers, Avi-bags, even avi-breathing gear) to help you in the event of a slide. The message some people seem to take from this is that they can mitigate the risks by bringing all this gear with them. Wrong. Even on the safest days, lethal hazard will always be there.

I know a few guys who lead backcountry trips, and one who assesses slide hazard as a patroller for a resort, and they are really conservative when it comes to making the call around safety. They watch the backcountry snow forecasts, and won't go out if the risk rises to "considerable". When they do go out, they will dig pits and do snow shear tests (usually in a few different spots) before going ahead with any skiing. If any of that stuff looks fishy, they pull the plug. You can do other things like ski higher or lower angle slopes (most slides happen between 25-40 degrees pitch, IIRC), or stick to the trees where the chance of a castastrophic slide is lower, but the main question they try to answer is: Should we be out here today? It takes a knowledgable, mature personality to be able to stand firm in the face of the temptation that sometimes sits in front of you. It's so easy to think, "I'll be down to the bottom in 30 seconds." or "I could ski quickly to the side of the slide." You need someone who can re-direct themselves (for starters) from their own impulses for excitement, and hold sway over a group of young adventure seekers. That's a rare mix.

[DukeSox]

I think this effect is also aided by the proliferation of all the gear out there (transceivers, Avi-bags, even avi-breathing gear) to help you in the event of a slide.

Not to mention the condition of the bodies of the people who died meant that avi-bags or avi-breathing gear would have been of no help. It's an incredibly violent event that doesn't seem so because it's "just snow".

[Slow Rheal]

Thanks Hildy and SiS17 - I appreciate it, and have certainly had time to heal. This is an incredibly well done piece and it should be linked - it's wildly educational and has a monster sized audience that most backcountry skiing or avalanche-related articles don't, so this is great to continue getting it out there. Awareness is a great thing.

I skied a ton in the central/southern Colorado backcountry from my late teens through mid to late twenties and saw a ton of freaky shit. This was a time when my responsibilities were less extensive. With a wife, child, house, etc now, it's not as much of a reality anymore. Terrain selection, snowpack knowledge, and general education are all invaluable safety tools. It's just so hard, you can literally change your exposure, along with the snowpack, mid turn, let alone the various aspects of the zone you're skiing - no doubt the snowpack will be completely different throughout your run. It can be a scary place out there for sure. Just seeing what happened at Snowmass this last week is a stark reminder - even a 26 year Snowmass ski patrol veteran, skiing a line she'd probably skied hundreds of times, isn't in control. Yeah, it was a permanently closed area that wasn't controlled, but clearly there was some kind of "comfort" level. Scary.

Even when I ski in-bounds on a powder day, or a day where terrain may be opening after a storm, I wear a beacon - I don't always go so far as to wear a pack with shovel and probe, but the beacon makes a lot of sense.

And yeah, as DukeSox said, the trauma aspect is pretty harrowing - VW Bug-sized cement blocks will kick the shit out of you and an airbag or an avalung won't do a ton to help.

[jk333]

How much snowpack/powder can allow an avalanche? After reading this article, the pitch of many eastern trails probably isn't steep enough to allow many avalanches, no?

I ask, as I think back to a day up in North Conway where the valley picked up 6-10" of snow/sleet/rain over 3 days but the mountains accumulated 30-40". It was the only time I've ever skied in stomach deep powder.

[Sausage in Section 17]

The East doesn't have to worry much, if ever about avalanches, except maybe on Mt. Washington. The East doesn't really have much in the way of high alpine terrain, with no trees and consistent colder temperatures that allow for the much bigger snow accumulations. The East also thaws and refreezes all the time, which means the snow pack usually gets fully consolidated into one bulletproof layer. The major risk with avalanches is when a large accumulated layer of snow sits on another layer or layers of snow, and then the adhesion between these layers becomes unstable through any number of factors, with weight of the top layer, wind loading, sun exposure, and temperature changes being a few.

One thing I know is that if you have an early season layer that settles, and then you have a drought for a while, on cold nights what's called hoar frost can form. Hoar frost is the the flaky, feathery kind of frost you might see sticking to tall grass or trees after a foggy, freezing night. Hoar frost between layers early in the season is a warning sign for the potential of a slide later in the season as it creates a slick or unstable layer in the snowpack upon which subsequent accumulations can more easily slide. In some seasons you might get layers that pack together better, or that create more frequent smaller slides which keep risk lower. It's safer to ski if you know that the layer that could break loose is, say 6-12". But if you know based on early season conditions and from having dug into the snowpack that there is a 3-4 ft. slab on top of an unstable layer like that, then you've got the potential for a really dangerous slide.

[tims4wins]

Probably a stupid question, but I haven't owned my own pair of skis since my teens, and my parents usually took care of this stuff...

I bought a brand new pair of skis last spring. Didn't ski them a single run. Do I need to have them waxed or sharpened before I ski this year?

Also... is "tuning" different than standard wax / sharpening? If so, how often do I need to tune my skis? Do I need to get them tuned before I ski this year?

[88 MVP]

Typically new skis are not waxed and sharpened on the ski rack, although when you bought them I would assume that the ski shop likely tuned them at the same time they mounted and adjusted the bindings. I would probably have them tuned before taking them out this year - the shop will clean off any old wax that was on them, reapply fresh wax, and sharpen the edges (which might have dulled in storage over the summer/fall).

A "tuning" usually refers to a number of services being performed at once. A basic tune usually includes a stone grind on the base of the ski, waxing, and edge sharpening. A ski shop may try to sell you on a more expensive tuning package which might include things like higher quality waxes and hand tuning and polishing of edges. If you're a casual skier, you'll be just fine with the basic tune. If you don't ski often, you probably will only need a full tune once or twice a season, although you may want to re-wax more frequently between uses.

[Sausage in Section 17]

To each their own, but I basically never wax or sharpen my skis.

I used to sharpen them, maybe once a season when I lived in the East and having sharp edges was more important for firm conditions. Once in a blue moon when conditions were sticky I would use a glide wax like you'd use for XC skis, just to keep snow from sticking to the bottoms.

Other than that, I leave them alone and always have fun.

[tims4wins]

Thanks guys. I think I'll take them in before I head out.

[Sausage in Section 17]

Have you guys checked out the Ski Tracks app? It's available for pretty much all mobile devices. http://www.makeuseof...ly-crap-iphone/

This is one of the coolest most multi-functional apps I've seen. It uses GPS technology that seems to work even in areas where I know I don't get a cell signal. I didn't know phones worked that way. It knows when you get on a lift, and just keeps track of so much automatically. It knows what ski area you're at, it has a pretty accurate altimeter. The map screen has a cool feature where you can animate your track, giving you a visual replay of your day. It also lets you toggle over to your camera and records where you took any pictures on the map.


Best $0.99 I ever spent. My top speed so far is 55.1 mph.