40 replies to this topic

[RedOctober3829]

Dan Roche.

https://twitter.com/...054848359784450

Edited by RedOctober3829, 04 December 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[Dogman2]

As expected. This sucks based on his production this season. Hopefully, Donte is ready to contribute as there is a role for him.

[Mystic Merlin]

That sucks, though I kind of figured this would be the case.

Hopefully they avoid any more major injuries.

[Hendu for Kutch]

Offensively they can live without him (although it would be easier with Gronk around). It really hurts on special teams though. He's quietly become an elite punt returner (#2 in the NFL in yards per).

[RedOctober3829]

This would put more emphasis on the running game now. Brady has less weapons to throw to. Lloyd needs to step up big time

[bradmahn]

This increases the likelihood, in my opinion, of Edelman returning to the Patriots next season with a team-friendly contract.

[Jungleland]

Amazing that this hurts as bad as it does, especially considering the hand-wringing around here the first couple games of the season. He's been an incredible value for a seventh round pick. With Stallworth in the fold and potentially a healthy Branch somewhere in the pipeline, I think this is a survivable injury. Unfortunate that we're not going to see Gronk-Hernandez-Welker-Lloyd-Edelman again this year. As excellent as the offense has been this season, it's pretty incredible to think what it could have been if it were 100% healthy after rounding into form.

[j44thor]

Is broken foot a season ending injury? Even if he has a chance to come back for AFC Championship game I would think it would make sense to keep him stashed on the 53 since he is their best punt return option, esp since I don't want to see Welker back there for returns given he is their only real threat at WR.

[lexrageorge]

Is broken foot a season ending injury? Even if he has a chance to come back for AFC Championship game I would think it would make sense to keep him stashed on the 53 since he is their best punt return option, esp since I don't want to see Welker back there for returns given he is their only real threat at WR.

With less than 9 weeks until the Super Bowl, which means less than 7 until the AFCCG, it seems highly unlikely that a WR could return from a broken foot that quickly. There's potential for long term damage if he were to come back too quickly. The Pats don't usually put established players on IR during the season unless their return is highly unlikely or impossible, so the answer to your first question is "yes".

[Stitch01]

Sucks he couldn't stay healthy this year since he seemed like he was making a leap forward, but secondary receiving options in this offense don't worry me much and Branch is still out there.

Did they say where he broke it?

[j44thor]

If that is the case then it doesn't make sense to keep him on the roster but if there is any chance he can come back I would hope that they would part ways with someone like Shiancoe who has literally done nothing thus far instead of IR'ing Edelman who was just coming into his own.

This teams depth is going to be really tested these next couple weeks.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

Is broken foot a season ending injury? Even if he has a chance to come back for AFC Championship game I would think it would make sense to keep him stashed on the 53 since he is their best punt return option, esp since I don't want to see Welker back there for returns given he is their only real threat at WR.

Really depends what's broken - if it's a toe he could possibly play this week. If it's his fifth metatarsal he could have surgery and possibly be back in 4 to 6 weeks, if it's a Lisfranc he's done this year and you have to have some degree of concern moving forward. There are way too many bones in the foot to assess much by just the phrase "broken foot" - if he does have surgery I could make a more educated estimate of what he actually broke according to how they rehab it.

Freaking feet.

[doctormoist]

Did anyone notice how often Vereen was split wide? I saw him out there as often as Lloyd. I wonder if he'll be more of a target in the passing game?

[RoDaddy]

Tough break as the top teams are so close this year, an injury to a quality guy like Edelman could conceivably break a SB run. That said, however,the Pats are really stacked with talented and underutitlized RBs in Vereen, Bolden and Woodhead, and any one of these guys should be at least a half-decent sub for Edelman as a return guy. And as talented as he is, Edelman is not a premiere receiver

Edited by RoDaddy, 04 December 2012 - 04:51 PM.

[Shelterdog]

If that is the case then it doesn't make sense to keep him on the roster but if there is any chance he can come back I would hope that they would part ways with someone like Shiancoe who has literally done nothing thus far instead of IR'ing Edelman who was just coming into his own.

This teams depth is going to be really tested these next couple weeks.

As an aside it's become pretty clear to me that Fells is here to be Gronk when Gronk is hurt, and Shiancoe to be Hernandez when Hernandez is hurt. In a sense they're pure backups rather than a third and fourth TE who would otherwise fit into game plans.

[NortheasternPJ]

Tough break as the top teams are so close this year, an injury to a quality guy like Edelman could conceivably break a SB run. That said, however,the Pats are really stacked with talented and underutitlized RBs in Vereen, Bolden and Woodhead, and any one of these guys should be at least a half-decent sub for Edelman as a return guy. And as talented as he is, Edelman is not a premiere receiver

I never thought there would be a day where Edelman was a key component to making the Super Bowl. Even when he was pretending to be Welker for a year.

[collings94]

Are you happy now game thread? (Begins to sob) All that complaining and now he's on IR!!

But seriously, I'm worried about punt returns. Welker will be called upon more to return punts, which makes me uneasy because if he got hurt we'd be done for.

[NortheasternPJ]

WHDH just reported he is officially on IR.

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

There is one man that can save this team. Come on Bill you know Troy's got enough left in the tank for one more playoff run! Straight from the Hall of Fame and back onto the field!

[j44thor]

As an aside it's become pretty clear to me that Fells is here to be Gronk when Gronk is hurt, and Shiancoe to be Hernandez when Hernandez is hurt. In a sense they're pure backups rather than a third and fourth TE who would otherwise fit into game plans.

It seems more likely that they realized Shiancoe has nothing left in the tank and Fells is the better blocker. Tough to call a guy a Hernandez backup when he hasn't seen a pass let alone caught one this season.

I wonder if Stallworth has anything left. He clearly isn't an Edelman replacement but perhaps he could stretch the field which would be a useful skill that Lloyd has not been able to provide.

[PedroKsBambino]

Are you happy now game thread? (Begins to sob) All that complaining and now he's on IR!!

But seriously, I'm worried about punt returns. Welker will be called upon more to return punts, which makes me uneasy because if he got hurt we'd be done for.

Yep, the wailing about Edelman and Ninkovich in those game threads sure looks bad in retrospect doesn't it?

This is a big loss, because Edelman really had developed into a Brad Smith-like gadget playmaker. it also hurts the return game---they don't have an obvious strong option for PR now, and that was a strong unit.

[ragnarok725]

Huge bummer. In the staying positive category, when all the weapons are healthy, he is not part of the primary package anyway. Hernandez/Gronk/Welker/Lloyd/RB (Ridley, Vereen or Woodhead) has always been the money group. Edelman was starting to steal some snaps away from Lloyd (deservedly so) but I don't think that's a huge drop-off in the way that position was being used in those packages. Lloyd still plays the outside pretty damn well.

Basically, that core group needs to get healthy and stay healthy. With Gronk back they're still far and away the best offense in the league.

It'd be interesting to see some more 2 RB sets in the coming weeks. Vereen and Woodhead as double threats out of the backfield would be an interesting look.

Edited by ragnarok725, 04 December 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[MentalDisabldLst]

Of all our offensive first-teamers, he was the one we could most afford to miss for a playoff run. If this happened to an OL, or the injuries to Gronknandez were worse, the wailing would be louder, and the gnashing of teeth... gnashier.

Edelman had gotten really effective at reading the blocking schemes for end-arounds and reverses, to the point where we ran those plays ~2x/game. Let's hope Vereen and Woodhead can replace that threat.

The punt returning effectiveness was probably 1/2 Edelman and 1/2 his blockers. We could probably throw Slater or McCourty or even Woodhead out there and still be an above-average unit (and save Welker from that role, at least for the regular season).

[Jordu]

nm

Edited by Jordu, 04 December 2012 - 09:42 PM.

[Morning Woodhead]

I have to wait another year for my dream of an Edelman TD pass in the playoffs now. Bummer.

[Shelterdog]

It seems more likely that they realized Shiancoe has nothing left in the tank and Fells is the better blocker. Tough to call a guy a Hernandez backup when he hasn't seen a pass let alone caught one this season.

I wonder if Stallworth has anything left. He clearly isn't an Edelman replacement but perhaps he could stretch the field which would be a useful skill that Lloyd has not been able to provide.

I apparently wasn't being clear.

The Pats have, for years, used two tight ends, one a big blocker (the Y) and the other more of a receiver (the F). Fells wasn't playing much but now that Gronk is hurt he's playing the Y position; in the limited downs that Shiancoe's been on the field they've taken Hernandez out and had Shiancoe playing the F. My point is that it wasn't clear what Fells and Shiancoe were brought to the team to do and the answer is: Fells is here to be Gronkowski when Gronk is out and Shiancoe is here to be Hernandez when Hernandez is out. Fells has been ok at his job and Shiancoe bad at his.

[amarshal2]

Very disappointing. The best punt returner and screen play WR on the roster. You could see his role expanding every week. They're deep enough to brush it off and not lose much of their swagger but I think he added a wrinkle they can't replace. I think he'll be missed more than most here seem to be saying.

[ragnarok725]

Very disappointing. The best punt returner and screen play WR on the roster. You could see his role expanding every week. They're deep enough to brush it off and not lose much of their swagger but I think he added a wrinkle they can't replace. I think he'll be missed more than most here seem to be saying.

A lot of the screens and YAC plays run to him can be pushed to Hernandez/Welker, and his outside receiving ability is probably right around the level of Lloyd at best. He'll be missed the most as a returner, but his contribution on the offensive side of the ball was not wholly unique. It does hurt to lose him as an option while Gronk is still hurt, though.

[dynomite]

Very disappointing. The best punt returner and screen play WR on the roster. You could see his role expanding every week. They're deep enough to brush it off and not lose much of their swagger but I think he added a wrinkle they can't replace. I think he'll be missed more than most here seem to be saying.

Lookit, he's a great punt returner and has been an explosive #3 WR at times, but let's not go crazy. The guy was on pace for 28 catches this year.

The 2012 Patriots feature one of the most prolific offenses of all time. They'll be fine without him.

Indeed, if I'm reading the box scores right they scored 35 points/game in the three contests he missed earlier this season. It will be interesting to see who gets his share of screens (Vereen?) and returns (I hope not Welker long-term).

Edited by dynomite, 05 December 2012 - 12:54 AM.

[Super Nomario]

Lookit, he's a great punt returner and has been an explosive #3 WR at times, but let's not go crazy. The guy was on pace for 28 catches this year.

He's played basically the same number of offensive snaps as Aaron Hernandez this season (Hernandez: 302, Edelman: 298). Their production (27 catches, 276 yards, 2 TDs on 40 targets for Hernandez; 21 catches, 235 yards, 3 TDs on 32 targets for Edelman) is pretty comparable. I agree they can compensate for his loss in other areas, but I do think he brings something unique to the offense. He brings some of the shiftiness and YAC ability of Welker but with the speed to stretch the field; he's probably their best deep threat right now.

[amarshal2]

Exactly.

As I stressed in my post (though it seems to have been glazed) they can be and will continue to be a robust offense without him. Particularly when Gronk is back. But I think they would be measurably better with him. I don't know how many yards or points a game he was worth, but it's >0. It hurts to lose a guy who is worth a few marginal points/game over his replacement, on average.

Edited by amarshal2, 05 December 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[Mystic Merlin]

I wouldn't get too carried away comparing Edelman and Hernandez's production this year, though I agree with amarshal that this isn't exactly like losing Dane Fletcher or something. He's a good punt returner - a not-insignificant skill, particularly when the lights get brighter - and he's dynamic after the catch, something you can't say about Lloyd, for instance. He also showed up as a blocker, another overlooked dimension of a skill player's game. He'll unquestionably be missed.

[PedroKsBambino]

I have a similar take to amarshal---Edelman had a unique skillset on offense that is just lost now, unless vereen is able to step up and play that role in the screen game. He also was a weapon on PR that they don't have a replacement for--_Welker is sure-handed but not the same kind of breakaway threat.

This hurts, but it's a 'b' level hurt and sure...they still have a great offense. But I guarantee you that BB is not sitting there saying, as some in this thread are 'well, we're still great so no problem'

[MentalDisabldLst]

But I guarantee you that BB is not sitting there saying, as some in this thread are 'well, we're still great so no problem'

I'm sure he's saying whatever he has to to get everyone properly focused for next Monday. What he believes on the inside, which is analogous to us posting here, may be completely different.

[Ed Hillel]

Why was Edelman even playing in a game in which the Patriots were favored and had taken a lead in? This is what happens.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 05 December 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[Saints Rest]

I wonder if we might see Woodhead returning punts

[tims4wins]

I wonder if we might see Woodhead returning punts

Field Yates broke it down today

Options included Stallworth, Woodhead, Bolden (unlikely due to preseason fumbles), and Hernandez (unlikely due to injuries - both him and Gronk).

I wonder if Vereen will get a look.

[loshjott]

He's played basically the same number of offensive snaps as Aaron Hernandez this season (Hernandez: 302, Edelman: 298). Their production (27 catches, 276 yards, 2 TDs on 40 targets for Hernandez; 21 catches, 235 yards, 3 TDs on 32 targets for Edelman) is pretty comparable. I agree they can compensate for his loss in other areas, but I do think he brings something unique to the offense. He brings some of the shiftiness and YAC ability of Welker but with the speed to stretch the field; he's probably their best deep threat right now.

Since both players missed some games, what is their production in games when both played? Hernandez essentially missed 7 games. Edelman missed 4.

The weeks when both were on the field are 1, 7, 12, and 13. In those weeks Hernandez caught 21 passes and Edelman 6. And other than the 47 yard run by Edelman against Indy, rushing stats are pretty much non-existent in those games. Edelman's best games were when Hernandez was out. So, when one misses time, the other steps up. Just what we need.

Edelman's punt returning skills will be the biggest hole to fill.

[Ed Hillel]

I'm pretty confident it will be Welker.

[tims4wins]

I'm pretty confident it will be Welker.

Right, Field Yates' post was more about who becomes the backup / #2 guy

[dynomite]

Since both players missed some games, what is their production in games when both played? Hernandez essentially missed 7 games. Edelman missed 4.

The weeks when both were on the field are 1, 7, 12, and 13. In those weeks Hernandez caught 21 passes and Edelman 6. And other than the 47 yard run by Edelman against Indy, rushing stats are pretty much non-existent in those games. Edelman's best games were when Hernandez was out. So, when one misses time, the other steps up. Just what we need.

Edelman's punt returning skills will be the biggest hole to fill.

Right, I guess this is my point, and I think we're all pretty much on the same page.

I'm not arguing that Edelman is worthless (as I said, he's been occasionally explosive), and he's especially valuable when both Hernandez and Gronkowski are limited or injured.

I'm arguing that, for one of the Top 10 offenses in NFL history, losing Edelman in and of itself won't be a major loss. Once Gronk returns we'll have the 2011 Patriots offense back in place with upgrades at RB (Ridley) and WR (Lloyd).