151 replies to this topic

[terrynever]

This is nuts, in the opinion of a Youks-lover. I watched a lot of the White Sox games last year, after he went over, and was impressed by his "clutchiosity" ABs, where he single-handedly won a few games for them. Nonetheless, his total numbers don't deserve this money, and he would be more effective at first than third, in my opinion. Perhaps this "source" is wrong about the offer?

According to Yankee beat writers on Twitter, Youk needs more money to take a one-year deal. Sherman, etc. confirm original report from MLB.com that it is a $12M offer.
I'm not against having Youk for one year. The Yankees have a way of milking production out of old warhorses. Chavez comes to mind first. They just weren't paying him $12M for the honor.

[derekson]

JA Keppinger got a two year deal. The Yankees obviously are only interested in one year deals.

He actually got a three year deal from the White Sox.

[mabrowndog]

Scratch another candidate off the list...

Bob Nightengale
‏@BNightengale
The #Cubs re-signed third baseman Ian Stewart to a one-year, $2 million contract with $500,000 worth of incentives

[bsj]

Not going to create a thread, as I havent seemed it confirmed, but https://twitter.com/MLBSportsReport is tweeting that Youkilis to the Yankees is done.

[StuckOnYouk]

Yeah, I can't believe that. The Indians are offering at least 2/18 it sounds like. If the Tribe are that close to the NY offer, I'd imagine he'd go to Cleveland because a) close to home b) Francona c) Play 1B d) F*ck the Yankees.

I still think he's just using NY's offer to up Cleveland since he knows they want to spend some cash.

Ultimately I'll be Cleveland moves it up to 2/20, something like that and it gets done.

Edited by StuckOnYouk, 07 December 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[terrynever]

Maybe he wants to get even with Boston, too. Even though most of his problems were with Valentine, Cherington did trade Youk for what amounted to a bag of baseballs. That might have stung his pride a bit. Just my opinion, of course.

[mabrowndog]

Wise move not starting a new thread. Baseball just held its winter meetings, during which this non-MLB affiliated account didn't tweet once. And suddenly they're the only source anywhere "reporting" that Youk has signed a 2-year/$22M deal with NYY?

A whopping 11 total tweets since the end of October, and 5 of those were re-tweets. Yeah, I'm sure it's legit...

[mabrowndog]

Maybe he wants to get even with Boston, too. Even though most of his problems were with Valentine, Cherington did trade Youk for what amounted to a bag of baseballs. That might have stung his pride a bit. Just my opinion, of course.

This is nothing short of preposterous.

[terrynever]

This is nothing short of preposterous.

It would be preposterous if Youk signs with the Yankees and then says something like "I always wanted to wear pinstripes." That would be preposterous, and a lie.
Players usually go where the money is. If Cleveland has offered him more, and he signs with the Yankees instead, I'll be curious to see what bullshit he comes up with.

[bsj]

Wise move not starting a new thread. Baseball just held its winter meetings, during which this non-MLB affiliated account didn't tweet once. And suddenly they're the only source anywhere "reporting" that Youk has signed a 2-year/$22M deal with NYY?

A whopping 11 total tweets since the end of October, and 5 of those were re-tweets. Yeah, I'm sure it's legit...

Agree, although the 6K followers did raise my eyebrows...

[StuckOnYouk]

Terry, you're really reaching. If anything it's the opposite. He's Ben's best friend for getting them the hell away from the Sox dugout even if it meant getting nothing in return. In the days after the trade to Chicago, you could see how happy was to get as far away from Bobby and the circus as he could.

And I would hope some Yankees fans stand up and have some pride. Say no to Youkilis. He's our version of Paul O'Neill. You guys have hated on him almost as much as any Sox player in the last 20 or 30 years and now some of you are hoping you land him? You've been in the playoffs almost every year, have some respect for yourselves for chrissakes. So you may have to go with a blackhole at 3B and in a year you might "ONLY" get to spend 190. Suck it up. Welcome to the real world of budgets that aren't 210 million.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

The only reason I would ever want to see this Youk to the Yankees thing happen is Youk and Joba in the same clubhouse.

[StuckOnYouk]

The two sweatiest, ugliest men in the game..if zimmer was still coaching there that shower would be grotesque.

[terrynever]

Terry, you're really reaching. If anything it's the opposite. He's Ben's best friend for getting them the hell away from the Sox dugout even if it meant getting nothing in return. In the days after the trade to Chicago, you could see how happy was to get as far away from Bobby and the circus as he could.

And I would hope some Yankees fans stand up and have some pride. Say no to Youkilis. He's our version of Paul O'Neill. You guys have hated on him almost as much as any Sox player in the last 20 or 30 years and now some of you are hoping you land him? You've been in the playoffs almost every year, have some respect for yourselves for chrissakes. So you may have to go with a blackhole at 3B and in a year you might "ONLY" get to spend 190. Suck it up. Welcome to the real world of budgets that aren't 210 million.

I didn't realize that stupid MLB link said the Yanks had upped their offer to 2/22. I doubt that is true so there's no story here, as MaB says.
As for accepting archrivals as members of your team, that's been going on forever, even before free agency. I could list a few old-timers, like Sal Maglie, as examples, but that would just date me.
If Youk fits the Yankees' needs, I have no problem with him coming aboard. Like most of us, though, I think the things players say at press conferences after they sign are a bit hard to stomach. Youk playing for the Yankees is like Dwight Evans spending his final year in Baltimore, or David Cone in Red Sox togs.

[sfip]

Maybe he wants to get even with Boston, too. Even though most of his problems were with Valentine, Cherington did trade Youk for what amounted to a bag of baseballs. That might have stung his pride a bit. Just my opinion, of course.

Yeah I'm sure he wanted payback for trading him to a team that could start him at 3B every day, had a chance to make the playoffs and didn't have Bobby V as a manager.

[terrynever]

Yeah I'm sure he wanted payback for trading him to a team that could start him at 3B every day, had a chance to make the playoffs and didn't have Bobby V as a manager.

Any prideful player who gets traded wants to some day hurt the team that traded him. If Youk signs with NY, it will be interesting to see what he says about playing against Boston as a Yankee. It would be a juicy plot line for the NY media. I almost want to see him in pinstripes so he has to answer those questions.
Also, with attendance falling off, and YES ratings down 8.3 percent this year, Yanks may need Youk to juice up interest in a team that is losing its hold on loyal fans.

[InsideTheParker]

If the Indians have really offered Youkilis 2/$18 (per Olney), I wonder what that says about Francona's attitude towards Youkilis. If he were the no-chemistry bad guy some Soshers see him as, wouldn't Francona stop Shapiro from making that offer?

Personally, I'm conflicted. Hate the idea of Youks as Yankee, but that way I'd get to see him play a lot more often. Que sera, sera.

[jon abbey]

That tweet referenced above no longer seems to exist, so much for that.

Meanwhile, Jayson Nix cleared waivers and was assigned to AAA, he is NY's everyday 3B as of now.

[mfyftw]

either "handcuffed cashman" is a brilliant negotiating ploy, or the next 2 years are gonna SUCK

[terrynever]

That tweet referenced above no longer seems to exist, so much for that.

Meanwhile, Jayson Nix cleared waivers and was assigned to AAA, he is NY's everyday 3B as of now.

Why not Jeter? It's time to confront this aging SS situation right now. I imagine it has to be done under the radar. If Girardi is such a defense guy when it comes to catcher, what about shortstop? Are they afraid to ask Jeter to move?

[Trlicek's Whip]

I'm not against having Youk for one year. The Yankees have a way of milking production out of old warhorses. Chavez comes to mind first. They just weren't paying him $12M for the honor.

I'm not throttling this post because I can't tell if the tone is dead-sincerity or not but the Yankees had very little to do with Chavez's production other than signing him to a cheap deal, crossing their fingers, and viewing him as house money if he ever took the field.

Chavez's last meaningful season of production before 2012 was 2006. And even this year he only amassed 278 AB's.

The idea that the Yankees exhibited any "skill" or can take any credit for Chavez's success should be lumped together with mystique, aura, ghosts, and intangibles.

[Brickowski]

Why not Jeter? It's time to confront this aging SS situation right now. I imagine it has to be done under the radar. If Girardi is such a defense guy when it comes to catcher, what about shortstop? Are they afraid to ask Jeter to move?

IMHO it's just as pigheaded to insist that Nunez must play SS. That only makes sense if they are looking to trade him.

[StuckOnYouk]

I didn't realize that stupid MLB link said the Yanks had upped their offer to 2/22. I doubt that is true so there's no story here, as MaB says.
As for accepting archrivals as members of your team, that's been going on forever, even before free agency. I could list a few old-timers, like Sal Maglie, as examples, but that would just date me.
If Youk fits the Yankees' needs, I have no problem with him coming aboard. Like most of us, though, I think the things players say at press conferences after they sign are a bit hard to stomach. Youk playing for the Yankees is like Dwight Evans spending his final year in Baltimore, or David Cone in Red Sox togs.

I'm not sure where Dwight Evans to Baltimore fits in that compared to a Sox and Yankees player changing spots. It was strange to see though certainly.

I'm not saying the issue is the NY management wanting him back, I've got an issue with Yankees fans accepting even half-heartedly back. There should be pitchforks in front of the new Yankee Stadium keeping him out regardless of whether or not you need a 3B. is the rivalry dead with Yankees fans again? Slap yourself in the face Terry or take a cold shower. this is Youkilis. Your stadium erupted when Joba would throw over his head. Keep despising him

Edited by StuckOnYouk, 07 December 2012 - 07:32 PM.

[terrynever]

I'm not sure where Dwight Evans to Baltimore fits in that compared to a Sox and Yankees player changing spots. It was strange to see though certainly.

I'm not saying the issue is the NY management wanting him back, I've got an issue with Yankees fans accepting even half-heartedly back. There should be pitchforks in front of the new Yankee Stadium keeping him out regardless of whether or not you need a 3B. is the rivalry dead with Yankees fans again? Slap yourself in the face Terry or take a cold shower. this is Youkilis. Your stadium erupted when Joba would throw over his head. Keep despising him

I could never defend what Joba did to Youk, repeatedly. Never liked Youk, of course, but that was because he crushed Yankee pitching for five years. If he becomes a Yankee, he brings patience at the plate, versatility and great competitiveness. He's also a physical risk.

I don't see the Yankees-sox rivalry as a hateful thing anymore. That ended a few years ago. I think we're between winning eras for both franchises. And the way both teams are going, it might be five years before they are on top again, or close to it.

[ThePrideofShiner]

I'm not sure where Dwight Evans to Baltimore fits in that compared to a Sox and Yankees player changing spots. It was strange to see though certainly.

I'm not saying the issue is the NY management wanting him back, I've got an issue with Yankees fans accepting even half-heartedly back. There should be pitchforks in front of the new Yankee Stadium keeping him out regardless of whether or not you need a 3B. is the rivalry dead with Yankees fans again? Slap yourself in the face Terry or take a cold shower. this is Youkilis. Your stadium erupted when Joba would throw over his head. Keep despising him

I agree wholeheartedly. I want no part of Youkilis on the Yankees. If they do sign him it'll be awfully tough to root for him. I barely was able to stomach rooting for Ichiro, so not sure I can handle Youk.

It was easier to handle Damon because he had played other places than Boston in his career, plus it was a four-year deal. You kind of had to root for him. Youk on a 1-year, mercenary deal would be brutal.

[Brickowski]

I root for any player who gets his uniform dirty.

But if Cleveland really has offered $18M for two years he'd be a fool not to take it. He can toil in obscurity with absolutely no pressure to perform for a shit team, and laugh all the way to the bank.

[jon abbey]

I'm not throttling this post because I can't tell if the tone is dead-sincerity or not but the Yankees had very little to do with Chavez's production other than signing him to a cheap deal, crossing their fingers, and viewing him as house money if he ever took the field.

Chavez's last meaningful season of production before 2012 was 2006. And even this year he only amassed 278 AB's.

The idea that the Yankees exhibited any "skill" or can take any credit for Chavez's success should be lumped together with mystique, aura, ghosts, and intangibles.

Well, what they've done with guys like him and Ibanez and Andruw Jones the last few years is to put them into smaller roles that maximize their fading skill sets. One reason Chavez only had 313 PAs this past year is that 274 of them were against RHP.

[Edelpeddle]

Reynolds is going to sign with the Indians so Youkilis appears destined for pinstripes. As a Red Sox fan, I would be all for the Yankees giving him a $13 million deal. He's hit .246/.355/.434 the last two seasons in some pretty friendly parks for righthanded hitters. His defense at third has also gotten pretty bad and he can't seem to stay healthy.

[CJM]

Reynolds is going to sign with the Indians so Youkilis appears destined for pinstripes. As a Red Sox fan, I would be all for the Yankees giving him a $13 million deal. He's hit .246/.355/.434 the last two seasons in some pretty friendly parks for righthanded hitters. His defense at third has also gotten pretty bad and he can't seem to stay healthy.

I disagree vehemently with this line of thinking. On that level, and only that level, it works: broken-down Youkilis=lessened chance for Yankee success. My fandom doesn't operate on that straight a level of math.

Youkilis going to the Yankees is lose-lose. If he does well, he helps the Yankees. If he does poorly, breaks down further, then he'll do so under a bright spotlight while still playing for arch-rivals. Unless he does well, which would suck, the NY fans and media will be merciless with him, which would suck. The sight of him wearing pinstripes will suck. The sight of him being his normal redass self on the Yankees, and the natural pull to dislike his redassity would suck. God forbid he pulls an Ibanez at some point and is embraced by NY fans, which I probably don't have to tell you, would epically suck.

Dude's a full-bore chapped redass, but for many years he was our full-bore chapped redass. His chin hamster amused me, as did his beef 'n fury sweats. I loved his batting eye and his late 20's/early 30's power spike, and his suprisingly quick lumber-pounce at third. I hated the way his exit played out. I enjoyed his occasional successes on the White Sox, despite the then-belief that it hurt the Red Sox playoff chances.

This sort of move, Youkilis to NY, is the reality of fandom, and it's no great tragedy or wound to the heart. But there's only way one this wouldn't absolutely suck, the one you mentioned, and it's entirely outweighed by the various other ways it would suck.

Edited by CJM, 09 December 2012 - 11:25 PM.

[jon abbey]

You could always root for him to take the money, get hurt in March or April and miss the season, then come back for another team in 2014 and be fantastic. Unless two teams you utterly despise are the last two competing for a title, there's almost always a path for rooting for a fan.

[rembrat]

Arrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[InsideTheParker]

You guys seem to be regarding this as a done deal, but I can't see that Youkilis has come to terms anywhere. Is it totally sure that signing Reynolds to play first eliminates the Indians' need for Youkilis?

[derekson]

You guys seem to be regarding this as a done deal, but I can't see that Youkilis has come to terms anywhere. Is it totally sure that signing Reynolds to play first eliminates the Indians' need for Youkilis?

I wouldn't rule out the Rays from making a competitive offer for Youkilis either - they just cut $12M from their 2013 payroll (and nearly 17M for 2014) by trading Shields and Davis, and their current 1B is James Loney and they don't even really have a DH on their roster yet. And if I'm Youkilis, and the Rays make a competitive offer to NYY or CLE, I'm probably going to play for a contender in Florida rather than a Yankee team that looked washed up or playing in Cleveland (which speaks for itself).

Edited by derekson, 10 December 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[rembrat]

You guys seem to be regarding this as a done deal, but I can't see that Youkilis has come to terms anywhere. Is it totally sure that signing Reynolds to play first eliminates the Indians' need for Youkilis?

They need both a DH and a 1B so I'm still hoping they sign him but I just have a terrible gut feeling that Youkilis will wear pinstripes in 2013.

[jon abbey]

And if I'm Youkilis, and the Rays make a competitive offer to NYY or CLE, I'm probably going to play for a contender in Florida rather than a Yankee team that looked washed up or playing in Cleveland (which speaks for itself).

Wait, the Yankees certainly have their issues, but so does TB. They're better positioned down the road but top to bottom, NY seems to have a decidedly better pitching staff with Shields and Davis leaving. I usually agree with your macro perspective, but not sure why you think TB will be more of a contender this year than NY.

[terrynever]

Youk's uncle runs a bistro in NYC, says Kevin always wanted to play in NY. The bistro, located on West Broadway in the Tribeca section, has always been a monument to Youk with bobbleheads and other mementoes on the walls. Sounds like a good place to visit.

http://espn.go.com/n...very-legitimate

Edited by terrynever, 10 December 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[CJM]

Youk's uncle runs a bistro in NYC, says Kevin always wanted to play in NY. The bistro, located on West Broadway in the Tribeca section, has always been a monument to Youk with bobbleheads and other mementoes on the walls. Sounds like a good place to visit.

http://espn.go.com/n...very-legitimate

Place isn't bad, but you have to bring your own trowel:

Edited by CJM, 10 December 2012 - 03:25 PM.

[terrynever]

Place isn't bad, but you have to bring your own trowel:

According to one of the comments on this website, the wait staff is snotty, slow and careless, among other things. Joba's going to fit in well here. And one commenter said they did a lousy job during the Hurricane!

http://www.menupages...urants/edwards/

Edited by terrynever, 10 December 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

The argument for the Yankees over the Rays relies on some assumptions. Here are the two teams with fWAR/rWAR from last year (2011 for Rivera, Gardner and Joba, 2010 for Aardsma since it was his last healthy season and assuming Ichiro re-signs).

NY Roster:

C: Cervelli (0.0/0.0), 1B: Teixeira (2.9/3.6), 2B: Cano (7.8/8.2), SS: Nunez (0.5/0.3), 3B: Nix (0.4/0.2), LF: Gardner (5.2/3.7), CF: Granderson (2.6/2.7), RF: Ichiro (2.6/1.6), DH: Dickerson (0.3/0.3)
BN: Romine (DNP), BN: Almonte (DNP), BN: Stewart (0.5/0.9)

SP: Sabathia (4.8/3.3), SP: Kuroda (3.9/5.2), SP: Pettitte (1.7/2.4), SP: Hughes (1.9/1.5), SP: Nova (1.6/0.4)
CL: Rivera (2.4/3.1), RP: Robertson (1.7/1.7), RP: Logan (0.6/0.9), RP: Aardsma (0.1/0.6), RP Rapata (0.5/0.8), RP: Chamberlain (0.4/0.7), RP: Phelps (0.8/2.0), RP Warren (-0.2/-0.3)

Tampa Roster:

C: Molina (0.8/0.9), 1B: Loney (-0.1/-0.3), 2B: Zobrist (5.9/5.5), SS: Escobar (1.8/2.5), 3B: Longoria (2.4/.2.3), LF: Jennings (3.5/3.0), CF: Fuld (0.3/0.5), RF: Joyce (1.8/1.8), DH: Guyer (0.0/0.1)
BN: Rodriguez (0.7/1.0), BN: Johnson (0.3/0.5), BN: Brignac (-0.3/-0.3)

SP: Price (5.1/6.4), SP: Hellickson (1.0/2.9), SP: Moore (2.3/1.2), SP: Cobb (2.2/1.7), SP: Niemann (0.9/0.6)
CL: Rodney (2.4/3.7), RP: McGee (2.0/1.8), RP: Ramos (0.2/0.6), RP Gomes (-0.2/-0.3), RP: De La Rosa (-0.1/-0.2), RP: Archer (0.5/-0.2)

NYY Total = 43.0 fWAR and 43.8 rWAR
TBR Total = 33.4 fWAR and 35.7 rWAR

So, assuming a full recovery by Rivera, Chamberlain and Gardner we're looking at accounting for between 43 and 44 wins above replacement. That estimate may be high because of the optimistic assumption of healthy seasons from the above with full recoveries, but that probably cancels out the choice to not include ARod or Jeter since both are recovering from injuries and will miss significant time. To be a bit generous we can estimate the total contribution from players we can account for at somewhere around 45.

For the Rays, their numbers are assuming a few things as well, though mostly in the negative. To start, we're assuming that Longoria doesn't return to the 6-7 fWAR and rWAR player he usually is with a healthy season. We're also assuming no growth from Moore or Cobb and that Archer won't improve upon his first taste of the majors and no step forward for Jennings. There is also no mention of Myers in the above breakdown who is a wildcard at this point. If Longoria is healthy he's probably worth an additional 4 WAR in both metrics, the pitchers could certainly add another 4 of their own with some growth from the young guys and perhaps another 1 WAR from Jennings as he continues to mature. We should probably subtract 1 WAR by assuming Rodney will not be historically good again which gives us a rough adjustment of +8 or so.

With a few tweaks on each roster we're looking at something near 45 for the Yankees and 42 for the Rays with both teams still needing to make some moves before the season starts. The Rays need to fill out their bullpen at the very least and the Yankees may sign Youkilis or another player to fill in at third base. In short, I could see an argument for either team being a stronger contender in the division, but with so many variables in flux on both rosters, I could definitely see the Rays having a much better season. Their youth and athleticism should help them stave off injury better than the Yankees at any rate, and they have more reason to hope for improvements from some of the key members of their roster.

[Brickowski]

Those numbers are very interesting. But the number that keeps sticking in my head is $12 million. The Rays just traded away Shields to save that much. If they were willing to offer Youkilis anything close to that, why not just keep Shields? And if the Rays sign Youkilis, what are they going to do with Loney, who they just signed? Is the 37 year-old Youkilis really 7-10 million dollars better than Loney?

It makes zero financial sense for the Rays to sign Youkilis. You can see him taking a bit of a discount to play for Francona in Cleveland, but not in Tampa Bay.

[jon abbey]

Snod, thanks for that, and keep in mind the statement was made specifically in the context of Youkilis choosing, and I think his addition would help NY more than it would TB as he'd slot right in at 3B. Also, Jeter is supposed to be ready for Opening Day, according to all reports I've seen. If not then, soon after, I'd think. My only point was I don't think he would see TB as a definitely better option for winning this year after his addition, I think your analysis confirms that.

[StuckOnYouk]

I'm surpised nothing has been announced yet especially since it's been his lifelong dream to wear the pinstripes *cough*.

Is there really a chance he won't sign with NY? His agent keeps talking about him seriously mulling a "very serious offer" but what does that mean? Does the NY offer blow everyone out of the water but he's trying to talk himself into taking it?

[Brianish]

Is the 37 year-old Youkilis really 7-10 million dollars better than Loney?

I don't know, are they negotiating for four years from now?

[Brickowski]

I don't know, are they negotiating for four years from now?

I don't understand your point. Loney's deal is for one year. Presumably Youkilis would get no more than 2 years at his age. What does the long-term have to do with it?

[crow216]

I don't understand your point. Loney's deal is for one year. Presumably Youkilis would get no more than 2 years at his age. What does the long-term have to do with it?

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but you're saying Youk is 37. He's not.

[jon abbey]

The Dodgers are rumored to have interest in Youkilis, maybe that's the holdup there.

[Brickowski]

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but you're saying Youk is 37. He's not.

Yes, my bad, he'll be 34 next year. But is anyone offering more than 2 years?

[BrazilianSoxFan]

That was a sarcastic way of saying that Youk is 33, not 37. He wasn't implying that someone is offering him a 4 year contract.

[Brickowski]

Yes, I understood that.

Well, if the Rays want to ditch the recently-signed Loney and the Dodgers want to play Ramirez at SS, I guess those teams are options for Youkilis. The Dodgers certainly appear to have the money.

[InsideTheParker]

This is getting annoying, since I've decided I do care and would much rather Youkilis not go to NY. I wonder if his agent is trying to get the Indians to add a couple of million, or looking desperately for another two-year deal if the Indians are less interested now that they have Reynolds signed.