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How should NYY replace A-Rod at 3B?


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#1 mabrowndog


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:59 PM

Even if he returns healthy enough to hit by mid-season, it's highly likely the "A-Rod as everyday third baseman" era has come to an end. The answer won't come from any current minor leaguers or reserves.

Chavez is still out there (.281/.348/.496 with 16 HR), so do they bring him back?

Will they instead look to an RHH like Youkilis, who can also spell Teixeira at 1B? Or Reynolds, a far worse option than Youk defensively but a much younger and more powerful bat? Or do they make a play for 37-yo Scott Rolen, who's pondering retirement?

All told, the FA market is wafer-thin. Others available: Chone Figgins, Ty Wigginton, Brandon Inge, Jack Hannahan, Jose Lopez, Placido Polanco, Ian Stewart, Drew Sutton, Mark DeRosa.

On the trade market, would the Brewers unload 34-yo Aramis Ramirez (.300/.360/.540 with 27 HR), who's owed $12M a year through 2014? And what would it take from the Yankees to pry him loose? How about the much cheaper and younger Chase Headley from the Padres?

#2 terrynever


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

In keeping with the age thing, my vote is for Youk. I honestly think he would be a great fit in NY because he plays hard. Him and Joba might need to talk privately but guys like Jeter and Teix would love to have him on the team. Youk might take a one-year deal, too, just to stick it to Boston 18 times a year.

Steven Drew is a better fit but wants multiple years and Boras is his agent. Never seen a shortstop yet who couldn't switch to third base. Plus, Drew could play shortstop if Jeter isn't ready in April. Of course, he could play shortstop all season long with Jeter switching to third base. Don't rule that out. Jeter is at a career crossroads and when he finds out in March that his ankle throbs on cool days, and rainy days, he might actually realize his days at shortstop are over.

#3 Royal Reader

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

Given the Yankees let Martin walk for a fairly reasonable deal from the Pirates, with pretty much no-one as a backup plan, there's no way they're taking on a $12m/year contract. Have to think they are DEADLY serious about getting below the tax threshold in '14.

#4 Brickowski

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:34 PM

Well, if Swisher goes to Boston, it's only poetic justic that Youkilis signs with the Yankees.

Seriously, I think the most likely scenario is a platoon of Chavez and Eduardo Nunez, with Nunez also playing some SS to give Jeter a rest. But Youkilis is a gamer and I'd love to see him in NY.

#5 InsideTheParker


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:35 PM

It's natural to wonder if the Ys will sign Hamilton for the offense. I would hate to see them sign either Scutaro, Youkilis or Drew for the left side of the infield, but any of those might be a fit.

#6 derekson

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:41 PM

If I were the Yankees, I would give serious thought to moving Cano to third base. He has the arm and the reaction time for the position, and second base is just murder on guys as they enter and pass through their 30s. With ARod apparently needing to move to basically full-time DHing even when he gets back on the field and a long-term commitment to Cano coming after 2013, they need to do what's best for maximizing the long-term production of both ARod and of Cano. And for ARod that means DH, and for Cano IMO that means moving to third base. Even all-time greats at the position break down physically when asked to stay at second base past their early 30s and Cano's physically always been an odd fit for the position anyway.

If I'm the Yankees I sign Drew to play SS, play Nunez at 2B (or perhaps sign Keppinger to fill in here) till ARod is healthy with Jeter DHing mostly and taking some reps at 2B, then play Jeter every day at 2B when ARod comes off the DL and takes over the DH position. Jeter can hide his lack of range a bit at second by playing deeper and taking advantage of his arm, and you save Cano longterm from having the same fate as a guy like Alfonzo, Roberto Alomar, Chase Utley, etc.

Edited by derekson, 03 December 2012 - 07:42 PM.


#7 SoxLegacy

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:46 PM

It's natural to wonder if the Ys will sign Hamilton for the offense. I would hate to see them sign e;ither Scutaro, Youkilis or Drew for the left side of the infield, but any of those might be a fit.

p
I had the same thought about the Yanks and Hamilton, almost like a bit of panic move in order to get something in the way of positive publicity and to replace or improve a big bat in the lineup.

#8 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:51 PM

If I'm the Yankees I sign Drew to play SS, play Nunez at 2B (or perhaps sign Keppinger to fill in here) till ARod is healthy with Jeter DHing mostly and taking some reps at 2B, then play Jeter every day at 2B when ARod comes off the DL and takes over the DH position. Jeter can hide his lack of range a bit at second by playing deeper and taking advantage of his arm, and you save Cano longterm from having the same fate as a guy like Alfonzo, Roberto Alomar, Chase Utley, etc.


I take it Cano plays RF in this scenario? Is there any evidence that he would do well there?

Edit: And wouldn't three steps down on the defensive spectrum drop the value of his bat a little?

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 03 December 2012 - 07:58 PM.


#9 terrynever


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:57 PM

If I were the Yankees, I would give serious thought to moving Cano to third base. He has the arm and the reaction time for the position, and second base is just murder on guys as they enter and pass through their 30s. With ARod apparently needing to move to basically full-time DHing even when he gets back on the field and a long-term commitment to Cano coming after 2013, they need to do what's best for maximizing the long-term production of both ARod and of Cano. And for ARod that means DH, and for Cano IMO that means moving to third base. Even all-time greats at the position break down physically when asked to stay at second base past their early 30s and Cano's physically always been an odd fit for the position anyway.

If I'm the Yankees I sign Drew to play SS, play Nunez at 2B (or perhaps sign Keppinger to fill in here) till ARod is healthy with Jeter DHing mostly and taking some reps at 2B, then play Jeter every day at 2B when ARod comes off the DL and takes over the DH position. Jeter can hide his lack of range a bit at second by playing deeper and taking advantage of his arm, and you save Cano longterm from having the same fate as a guy like Alfonzo, Roberto Alomar, Chase Utley, etc.

Jeter at second? Why don't you just shoot him? The DP pivots with his back to the runner would kill him.
Cano stays at second for at least two more years.

#10 mabrowndog


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:03 PM

All told, the FA market is wafer-thin. Others available: Chone Figgins, Ty Wigginton, Brandon Inge, Jack Hannahan, Jose Lopez, Placido Polanco, Ian Stewart, Drew Sutton, Mark DeRosa.


Scratch Sutton from the list. Not that he was a serious option for the Yanks, but the Red Sox are bringing him back on a minor league deal.

#11 Brickowski

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

Cano turns the DP as well or better than any second baseman I've seen, and that includes guys like Mazeroski. He's going to play second for the forseeable future.
Why should the Yankees turn one problem into two problems?

Edited by Brickowski, 03 December 2012 - 09:15 PM.


#12 ThePrideofShiner

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:16 AM

Can Nix play third? Not a perfect solution, but he would be in-house to a point.

Edit: The more I think about it, of course he isn't a solution as a starter. I think they have to get Chavez back and perhaps do a platoon at third.

Edited by ThePrideofShiner, 04 December 2012 - 01:24 AM.


#13 Wingack


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:33 AM

Can Nix play third? Not a perfect solution, but he would be in-house to a point.

Edit: The more I think about it, of course he isn't a solution as a starter. I think they have to get Chavez back and perhaps do a platoon at third.


A Chavez/Nix platoon could be cheap and satisfactory.

#14 YTF

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:33 AM

Given the Yankees let Martin walk for a fairly reasonable deal from the Pirates, with pretty much no-one as a backup plan, there's no way they're taking on a $12m/year contract. Have to think they are DEADLY serious about getting below the tax threshold in '14.

Seriously, I think the most likely scenario is a platoon of Chavez and Eduardo Nunez, with Nunez also playing some SS to give Jeter a rest. But Youkilis is a gamer and I'd love to see him in NY.

A Chavez/Nix platoon could be cheap and satisfactory.


These three posts wraped into one. Chavez/Nunez/Nix......... This was pretty much how they've patched the 3rd base hole in the past isn't it? Didn't seem to hurt them much. Guessing they can get Chavez back fairly cheap. May require a little salary bump, but not enough that they shouldn't be able to work something out.

#15 soxfan121


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:27 AM

Cano turns the DP as well or better than any second baseman I've seen, and that includes guys like Mazeroski.


Were you in a coma from 1969 until 2005? This is one of the silliest things I've ever read.

#16 Brickowski

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:14 AM

Were you in a coma from 1969 until 2005? This is one of the silliest things I've ever read.


If it's Alomar you had in mind, IMHO he was no better at turning the DP than Cano.

#17 Cumberland Blues

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:17 AM

They should get a SS and move Jeter to 3B. A-Rod is a DH when he comes back. I've been half expecting them to trade for Tulo ever since Jeter's ankle blew up - but signing Drew or trading for Cabrerra are probably more likely.

#18 terrynever


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:18 AM

They should get a SS and move Jeter to 3B. A-Rod is a DH when he comes back. I've been half expecting them to trade for Tulo ever since Jeter's ankle blew up - but signing Drew or trading for Cabrerra are probably more likely.

This is absolutely the issue Cashman and Girardi have to deal with for 2013. The only way to get any returns out of A-Rod going forward is by making him a DH only. Jeter's injury is the final piece of evidence that he has to move off shortstop, for the good of the team! It could have been argued in 2004 that A-Rod moving to third was for the good of the team. In 2013, Jeter cannot look in the mirror and deny he has to get off shortstop, especially after he tests out his 38-1/2-year old body in spring training.

So the best answer to the question this thread poses is this: Jeter moves to third base and the Yankees find themselves a shortstop who can handle the position over 162 games. Cheapest scenario: Stay in-house and fill with Nunez. Nix can back him up and come in for the late innings if they have a lead.

Edited by terrynever, 04 December 2012 - 10:23 AM.


#19 zenter


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:53 AM

They should get a SS and move Jeter to 3B. A-Rod is a DH when he comes back. I've been half expecting them to trade for Tulo ever since Jeter's ankle blew up - but signing Drew or trading for Cabrerra are probably more likely.


I posted a similar remark in the Arod injury thread, and was told "Jeter would never do it." I still think it's the best option for the team. Are the Yankees really in danger of losing fans by moving Jeter? Anyone will look at his age and injuries and say "yup, that makes sense." What's Jeter's play in this scenario? Complain? Wouldn't he end up looking like a huge douchecanoe in this case, by not being a good soldier?

#20 jon abbey


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:03 AM

As a side comment, Cashman said yesterday that he still wanted to keep Nunez at SS and not move him to 3B.

Chavez seems like an obvious answer here, plus someone else who may be Nix.

#21 terrynever


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:09 AM

As a side comment, Cashman said yesterday that he still wanted to keep Nunez at SS and not move him to 3B.

Chavez seems like an obvious answer here, plus someone else who may be Nix.

So you don't think they can move Jeter off shortstop and let Nunez take a full shot at the only position they let him play last season in the minors? Isn't this the time to change Jeter's position? If not now, then ... never?

#22 glennhoffmania


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

I posted a similar remark in the Arod injury thread, and was told "Jeter would never do it." I still think it's the best option for the team. Are the Yankees really in danger of losing fans by moving Jeter? Anyone will look at his age and injuries and say "yup, that makes sense." What's Jeter's play in this scenario? Complain? Wouldn't he end up looking like a huge douchecanoe in this case, by not being a good soldier?


Yeah that was me. I absolutely agree that it would be best for the team. But it also would've been best for the team when they acquired ARod. And it would've been best for the team to move him at any point in the last 8 years. I think that Jeter's last contract negotiation showed that looking like a huge douchecanoe (I like this word, by the way) is not a concern of his.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just don't see Jeter graciously offering to give up his position based on past behavior.

#23 jon abbey


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:17 AM

So you don't think they can move Jeter off shortstop and let Nunez take a full shot at the only position they let him play last season in the minors? Isn't this the time to change Jeter's position? If not now, then ... never?


This adds new issues to the mix, though: Jeter learning a new position for the first time at an advanced age and coming off an injury, and what do you do once they're both back (hopefully) in the second half of the season and you've already got guys at DH (which hopefully they will)?

I think there's a chance (maybe not a big one) that Jeter will be done after this year, but I don't think he ever moves off SS (fill in your own joke here).

The Yankee offense is going to be ugly this year. U-G-L-Y, and they will not have an alibi.

#24 terrynever


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:21 AM

Yeah that was me. I absolutely agree that it would be best for the team. But it also would've been best for the team when they acquired ARod. And it would've been best for the team to move him at any point in the last 8 years. I think that Jeter's last contract negotiation showed that looking like a huge douchecanoe (I like this word, by the way) is not a concern of his.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just don't see Jeter graciously offering to give up his position based on past behavior.

Jeter's hardheadedness is certainly a problem but my feeling is, once he sees how his body responds in late March or whenever it is that he can go 100 percent, he's going to know, deep down in his athlete's heart, that he can't play shortstop anymore. That's just my feeling. Jeter may very well hold his manager hostage on this point. So you know what the manager does? He brings Jeter in and informs him, priviately, of the concerns and tells him to start preparing to play third base.
It would be a lot smoother if they told Jeter this in February so he can start preparing himself for the position switch.

#25 zenter


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:22 AM

Yeah that was me. I absolutely agree that it would be best for the team. But it also would've been best for the team when they acquired ARod. And it would've been best for the team to move him at any point in the last 8 years. I think that Jeter's last contract negotiation showed that looking like a huge douchecanoe (I like this word, by the way) is not a concern of his.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just don't see Jeter graciously offering to give up his position based on past behavior.


Agreed on all counts about when it would have been the best time to move him, except now there's a confluence of events that give the Yankees an upper hand. Jeter is now old by baseball standards (let alone SS standards), he's coming off an injury, and the incumbent 3B is out until at least June, probably later. Whether he's gracious or not, Jeter's got no leg to stand on (okay, one leg) versus previous points in time.

This adds new issues to the mix, though: Jeter learning a new position for the first time at an advanced age and coming off an injury, and what do you do once they're both back (hopefully) in the second half of the season and you've already got guys at DH (which hopefully they will)?


Since he's rehabbing anyway, isn't this the best time to start prepping him for 3B?

#26 terrynever


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:25 AM

This adds new issues to the mix, though: Jeter learning a new position for the first time at an advanced age and coming off an injury, and what do you do once they're both back (hopefully) in the second half of the season and you've already got guys at DH (which hopefully they will)?

I think there's a chance (maybe not a big one) that Jeter will be done after this year, but I don't think he ever moves off SS (fill in your own joke here).

The Yankee offense is going to be ugly this year. U-G-L-Y, and they will not have an alibi.

Yeah, to use a lame phrase, I feel like the Yankees have jumped the shark. Last year's offensive woes, the RISP issues for the first three months, and then the playoff blues, were just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this team's future.

Ken Rosenthal just said the Yankees' insurance policy on A-Rod covers approximately 70 percent of his salary, so if he's finished at the end of 2013, they are "fairly well covered" money-wise, according to Rosenthal.

I think A-Rod is done before Jeter. His personality might be more attuned to retiring than Jeter's.

p.s. -- I agree with Zenter's points totally!

Edited by terrynever, 04 December 2012 - 11:26 AM.


#27 jon abbey


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

Jack Curry@JackCurryYES

With ARod out, Yanks have spoken with Kevin Youkilis's agent. Word is that Youk would consider 1-year deal if money was at premium amount.

#28 terrynever


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:23 PM

Jack Curry@JackCurryYES

With ARod out, Yanks have spoken with Kevin Youkilis's agent. Word is that Youk would consider 1-year deal if money was at premium amount.

I like it. 2013 Yankees could resemble Stallone's cinematic version of "The Expendables." :blink:

#29 mabrowndog


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:27 PM

Were you in a coma from 1969 until 2005? This is one of the silliest things I've ever read.


Either that, or he never saw Frank White or Lou Whitaker play a single inning in the field.

#30 Brickowski

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:59 PM

Either that, or he never saw Frank White or Lou Whitaker play a single inning in the field.


You forgot to mention Nelson Fox, Joe Morgan and Ryne Sandberg.

Whittaker was not as good defensively as Cano in any respect. White was outstanding-- probably better overall defensively than Cano-- but not at making the DP.

We're talking about one thing Cano does really, really well. He doesn't pivot like many second baseman, he uses that little slide step that is super quick.

But back to the topic at hand, the Yankees would be crazy IMHO if they moved Cano to third.

Edited by Brickowski, 04 December 2012 - 06:03 PM.


#31 Freddy Linn


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:32 PM

Heyman reporting Chavez to the DIamondbacks.

Edit: looks like 1 year, $3M.

Edited by Freddy Linn, 05 December 2012 - 02:33 PM.


#32 ThePrideofShiner

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:43 PM

Having to root for Kevin Youkilis is not going to be pleasant.

Though I guess Mark Reynolds is also an option.

#33 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

Having to root for Kevin Youkilis is not going to be pleasant.


You can boo him. He'll think you're saying his name.

#34 mt8thsw9th


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:22 PM

Having to root for Kevin Youkilis is not going to be pleasant.


Especially with that awful beard and face, it's pretty tough. Best of luck.

#35 mabrowndog


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:51 PM

I guess Tito wants him more.

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo
Looks like Indians stepping up their intensity on talks with Kevin Youkilis. Would love to land him for 1B.


Edited by mabrowndog, 05 December 2012 - 03:52 PM.


#36 armyguy25

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:50 PM

They should get a SS and move Jeter to 3B. A-Rod is a DH when he comes back. I've been half expecting them to trade for Tulo ever since Jeter's ankle blew up - but signing Drew or trading for Cabrerra are probably more likely.


lol its all good and fine to say that "they should get Player A" but I dont think theres a rule that says other teams have to submit to NY in the trade market as well as in the FA market. While they're at it, they should also trade for Felix, Verlander and Kershaw.

The Yanks dont have the pieces to land Tulo, even if they literally emptied their farm.

#37 jon abbey


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:24 PM

This is getting ugly, I would have really liked a Keppinger/Chavez platoon. I trust Cashman, but I am running out of ways to see a competent lineup on the field this year for NY.

#38 Brickowski

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:33 PM

I share your doubts Jon, but the days of the Yankees throwing money at problems seem to be over. IMHO Nunez is a perfectly competent offensive player. Defensively...not so much. The problem is, what happens if he or Jeter gets hurt? In that event, they may have to rely on the likes of Ramiro Pena or Kevin Russo (both free agents, I believe). Ouch.

#39 nattysez

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:34 PM

Heyman reporting Chavez to the DIamondbacks.

Edit: looks like 1 year, $3M.


At that number, the Yankees must have been affirmatively not interested. Even with their belt-tightening, 1/$3mm seems entirely doable for them.

#40 terrynever


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:50 PM

This is getting ugly, I would have really liked a Keppinger/Chavez platoon. I trust Cashman, but I am running out of ways to see a competent lineup on the field this year for NY.

It's December 5. I trust Cashman, too, and figure he will fill the holes by February, even if it involves a trade of an asset like Granderson. Who else among the starters is tradeable? Grandy is about the only moveable piece.

#41 jon abbey


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:16 PM

I share your doubts Jon, but the days of the Yankees throwing money at problems seem to be over. IMHO Nunez is a perfectly competent offensive player. Defensively...not so much. The problem is, what happens if he or Jeter gets hurt? In that event, they may have to rely on the likes of Ramiro Pena or Kevin Russo (both free agents, I believe). Ouch.


Nunez isn't playing 3B, they just said this again a few days ago.

#42 Brickowski

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

Then Jeter will have to play it, unless Cashman pulls something out of his hat.

Edited by Brickowski, 05 December 2012 - 10:05 PM.


#43 EvilEmpire

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:46 PM

It will be interesting to see what Cashman does. I agree with nattysez that it seems like the Yankees just weren't interested in bringing Chavez back at all.

I sort of expect Granderson to get traded to fill at least one of these holes.

#44 jon abbey


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

I sort of expect Granderson to get traded to fill at least one of these holes.


And immediately open up another, the only other real OF they have right now is Gardner, and even he basically sat out all of last year.

#45 mabrowndog


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:05 AM

‏@BryanHoch
The Yankees' offer to Kevin Youkilis is one year at $12M, according to source.

#46 jon abbey


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:12 AM

They really seem like they don't know what they're doing right now. Is Youkilis really better than a Keppinger/Chavez platoon, both of whom OPSd over .900 from their respective sides last year, and who would probably have been cheaper combined than that? They didn't get around to making offers on either of those guys.

#47 terrynever


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:49 AM

‏@BryanHoch
The Yankees' offer to Kevin Youkilis is one year at $12M, according to source.

That's a lot of money for a broken down old warhorse, even if it is only a one-year deal.

#48 TheoShmeo


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:33 AM

If that offer is really on the table, how could Youks pass it up? I suppose he could be looking for a 2 or 3 year deal and not like the prospect of going back to the bench when A-Rod returns. But no one else is going to top that for 2013 or even come close to it.

#49 InsideTheParker


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:33 AM

That's a lot of money for a broken down old warhorse, even if it is only a one-year deal.

This is nuts, in the opinion of a Youks-lover. I watched a lot of the White Sox games last year, after he went over, and was impressed by his "clutchiosity" ABs, where he single-handedly won a few games for them. Nonetheless, his total numbers don't deserve this money, and he would be more effective at first than third, in my opinion. Perhaps this "source" is wrong about the offer?

#50 Wingack


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:46 AM

JA Keppinger got a two year deal. The Yankees obviously are only interested in one year deals.




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