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2012 Patriots Discussion-December


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#1 Dogman2


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:40 AM

Shelter's last post in the November thread:

The Develin promotion is just odd--he wasn't even active. I'm not sure if they're just rewarding a hard-working guy, trying to lock up somebody on the practice squad they might use, trying to trick other teams into thinking they'll use a fullback when they won't, or something else


Perhaps a practice squad spot given the uncertainty prior to Sunday of Edelman and his concussion.

Anyway, December discussion.

#2 Hendu for Kutch

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:15 AM

I'll move my response over here since I posted there about the same time you started the December thread:

I recall reading that if the active roster ever falls below 53 for a game, your team loses the ability to keep players on the practice squad for a 3rd season. Something to that effect, which is probably why they did it.



#3 Dogman2


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

Yep, that explanation makes sense.

#4 Shelterdog


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:58 AM

Yep, that explanation makes sense.


They absolutely keep the roster at 53 so I'm not surprised they moved somebody up, I'm just surprised it was him.

Ironically it may be because the's the worst guy on the practice squad (once you get cut from the 53 you have to go through waivers so maybe they didn't want to expose players who have resisted entreaties from other teams while on the practice squad to the waiver process, which is how they lost Salas). Perhaps the calculation was "Tarpinian or Kopa or Williams might get picked up off waivers but nobody's adding a FB at this time of year".

#5 soxfan121


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

McDaniels desperately wants a FB - he just can't find one that can win the roster spot from Whoman or Fells. I bet the draft or sign one or more again this off-season. For what, I have no idea. I mean, if you could find the new version of Larry Centers or Keith Byars, ok...but finding the new Heath Evans seems like a pointless endeavor with Gronk & Hernandez & the cast of thousands.

#6 Super Nomario


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

They absolutely keep the roster at 53 so I'm not surprised they moved somebody up, I'm just surprised it was him.

Ironically it may be because the's the worst guy on the practice squad (once you get cut from the 53 you have to go through waivers so maybe they didn't want to expose players who have resisted entreaties from other teams while on the practice squad to the waiver process, which is how they lost Salas). Perhaps the calculation was "Tarpinian or Kopa or Williams might get picked up off waivers but nobody's adding a FB at this time of year".

I imagine special teams factored into the decision, but since Develin wasn't active I don't know what teams he's on. The other offensive skill players don't play much special teams (other than Bolden early in the year, and Slater obviously), so there's a potential role for him.

I pointed this out in the other thread, but Hoomanawanui screwed up a protection in the Jets game that led to a safety. That was while playing fullback. In the past the Pats have played guys like Connolly and Seymour at fullback, but that was just in specific goal line packages. Is Hoomanawanui practicing with Fears and the RBs so he knows the protections from the FB position? Is that something they cover with the TEs? It's possible the Pats feel like having a real FB is a better option if they're going to use "21" personnel packages.

I think Bolden comes off suspension today. If Develin isn't the guy dropped to make room for him, it may suggest that Bolden's health is still a question mark.

#7 jmcc5400

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

The Patriots' 6 game winning streak marks the 7th time in 12 seasons the Patriots have had an in-season winning streak of at least 6 games:

2001 - 6 game streak to close season [plus 3 playoff wins plus first 3 in 2002]

2003 - 12 games to close season [plus 3 playoff wins plus first 6 in 2004]

2004 - 6 games to start season [bonus 6 game streak: last 2 of regular season, 3 playoffs, opener in 2005]

2007 - Ran the regular season table

2010 - Last 8 in regular season

2011 - Last 8 in regular season

2012 - Current 6 game streak.

Before BB, the franchise had a total of 5 streaks of 6 or more games:

1976 (6), 1978 (7), 1985 (6), 1986 (7) and 1994 (7).

#8 bigsid05

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

The Patriots' 6 game winning streak marks the 7th time in 12 seasons the Patriots have had an in-season winning streak of at least 6 games:

2001 - 6 game streak to close season [plus 3 playoff wins plus first 3 in 2002]

2003 - 12 games to close season [plus 3 playoff wins plus first 6 in 2004]

2004 - 6 games to start season [bonus 6 game streak: last 2 of regular season, 3 playoffs, opener in 2005]

2007 - Ran the regular season table

2010 - Last 8 in regular season

2011 - Last 8 in regular season

2012 - Current 6 game streak.

Before Tom Brady, the franchise had a total of 5 streaks of 6 or more games:

1976 (6), 1978 (7), 1985 (6), 1986 (7) and 1994 (7).


Fixed that for you.

#9 Mystic Merlin


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

Let's not do this again.

#10 Morgan's Magic Snowplow


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

The Patriots' 6 game winning streak marks the 7th time in 12 seasons the Patriots have had an in-season winning streak of at least 6 games:

2001 - 6 game streak to close season [plus 3 playoff wins plus first 3 in 2002]

2003 - 12 games to close season [plus 3 playoff wins plus first 6 in 2004]

2004 - 6 games to start season [bonus 6 game streak: last 2 of regular season, 3 playoffs, opener in 2005]

2007 - Ran the regular season table

2010 - Last 8 in regular season

2011 - Last 8 in regular season

2012 - Current 6 game streak.

Before BB, the franchise had a total of 5 streaks of 6 or more games:

1976 (6), 1978 (7), 1985 (6), 1986 (7) and 1994 (7).


This post got me thinking about their record toward the end of the season in BB era. I took a look and, since 2001, the Patriots are 67-12 after November 15th, which is absolutely insane. And a couple of those losses (Houston 2009 AKA the Welker game, Miami 2005) were on the last day of the season when we weren't really trying to win.

#11 soxfan121


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

n/m

Edited by soxfan121, 03 December 2012 - 03:29 PM.


#12 dynomite

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:38 PM

This post got me thinking about their record toward the end of the season in BB era. I took a look and, since 2001, the Patriots are 67-12 after November 15th, which is absolutely insane. And a couple of those losses (Houston 2009 AKA the Welker game, Miami 2005) were on the last day of the season when we weren't really trying to win.


It's stunning. The typical explanation I've heard is that this is the time of year that Belichick's famed roster depth and versatility comes into play. I also wonder whether the weather helps, especially because Brady seems like one of the best bad-weather QBs of all-time.

#13 Shelterdog


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:53 PM

It's stunning. The typical explanation I've heard is that this is the time of year that Belichick's famed roster depth and versatility comes into play. I also wonder whether the weather helps, especially because Brady seems like one of the best bad-weather QBs of all-time.


Over the years a few guys have said that they do heavy conditioning/weight training much later in the season then most other teams--heavy lifting sessions on Fridays for most guys, a ton of conditioning runs during practice tuesday-thursday, stuff like that. This might also explain why they have relatively high injury rates.

#14 Dogman2


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:56 PM

As far as depth, the late season returns in terms of wins/losses may be reflected by BB infamous quip, parahprasing, "I worry about the last 5 spots more than any other in camp".

#15 Zombie Wakefield

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

Given that Belichick's preferred approach is to craft a specific game plan for each game designed to take away the strengths of that week's opponent, I suppose it is possible that he is better able to develop game plans and later in the season when there is significantly more video available on the opponents than early in the season. Of course, this is making the assumption that BB can craft a game plan that will always win, provided he has an infinite number of monkeys reviewing an infinite number of game tapes.

#16 tims4wins


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:04 PM

The other factor is they usually pound bad and mediocre teams in November and December that are out of the race. It's not unlike baseball when you can beat up on the crappy teams in August and September.

#17 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

The other factor is they usually pound bad and mediocre teams in November and December that are out of the race. It's not unlike baseball when you can beat up on the crappy teams in August and September.


That kinda comes and goes. It was true last year, but the year before they beat three very good teams in December (NYJ, GB, CHI).

#18 tims4wins


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

That kinda comes and goes. It was true last year, but the year before they beat three very good teams in December (NYJ, GB, CHI).


I just meant that they don't lose to lousy teams late in the year, unlike losing to say Buffalo early last year or Cleveland in October 2010.

#19 SidelineCameras

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

I just meant that they don't lose to lousy teams late in the year, unlike losing to say Buffalo early last year or Cleveland in October 2010.


Or Arizona this season. Sigh.

#20 ShaneTrot

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:49 PM

Fixed that for you.

Hey, the Pats had a four game winning streak with Matt Cassel to finish out the 2008 season. Just saying.

#21 PedrosRedGlove

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:38 PM

Brady being a great bad weather quarterback is a big part of it. I also think the fact that Belichick has more tape to review does play a big role. I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment, but I remember in the early Super Bowl days, while Brady was maintaining his undefeated post season record, they also had a perfect or near perfect record when they played teams twice in a year, the second game was an automatic W. One more reason XLII was such a shocker.

#22 There is no Rev


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:04 PM

If Belichick says he's not going to write a book after he retires, we kidnap his son and ransom him back for the book, yeah?

#23 soxfan121


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:53 PM

If Belichick says he's not going to write a book after he retires, we kidnap his son and ransom him back for the book, yeah?


I don't think he'd negotiate unless we kidnapped Bon Jovi and the yacht, too.

#24 Darnell's Son

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:43 AM

Yeah, I have a feeling Belichick is a "shoot the hostage" type of negotiator.

#25 jsinger121


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:09 PM


Dan Roche@RochieWBZ

NFL Sources tell #wbz tv the news not good on Julian Edelman. Broken foot, likely needs surgery and likely headed to IR. #Patriots



#26 Rico Guapo

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:13 PM

Shit.

#27 Jungleland

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

McDaniels desperately wants a FB - he just can't find one that can win the roster spot from Whoman or Fells. I bet the draft or sign one or more again this off-season. For what, I have no idea. I mean, if you could find the new version of Larry Centers or Keith Byars, ok...but finding the new Heath Evans seems like a pointless endeavor with Gronk & Hernandez & the cast of thousands.


I wouldn't discount the possibility of Fiametta returning in 2013 as a real factor. He was an excellent run blocker for the cowboys and is still currently under contract with the Pats, having been placed on the left squad list rather than cut outright. From what I can find he was only signed to a 1 year deal, but I can see him getting a cheap 1-year comeback deal in the offseason if BB/McDaniels do indeed want a true fullback on the team.

#28 PedroKsBambino


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:11 PM

In terms of late-season improvement the other thing is that Belichick is a good teacher; the teams simply play better football, executing better and making fewer mistakes, later on. It isn't random, because it happens year after year after year.

#29 Super Nomario


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

Mitch Petrus also cut. Is that a good sign for the health of Mankins and Connolly? I dunno, 'cause they also signed two centers to the practice squad.

Spot for Bolden is open, at least, though they have a roster exemption until next week.

Edited by Super Nomario, 04 December 2012 - 06:08 PM.


#30 Papelbon's Poutine


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:01 PM

Heard on Felger and Mazz that jones and mankins will be back on Monday. Awesome.

(null)

#31 Phragle


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

PFF - Sig Stat Snapshot: Receiving Production, Tight Ends

Today I’ll take a look at tight ends and their receiving production. To do that we will mainly be looking at two of our Signature Stats for receivers, Yards per Route Run (YPRR) and Drop Rate. Both are very straight forward in terms of how they are calculated and the equations are the following:
YPRR = Yards divided by Snaps in Route

Drop Rate = Drops divided by Catchable Passes

Notable Performers
- Rob Gronkowski continues to make the most out of his targets. Gronk is first in YPRR by a large margin despite being sixth in target percentage.



#32 tims4wins


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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:23 AM

Brady's kid was born

So yeah, now no one has to freak about the baby being born on Monday night, not that Brady would miss the game anyway

#33 McBride11

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

Dolphins feel disrespected because the Patriots kept handing the ball off to Ridley...

http://boston.cbsloc...-disrespectful/

But hey, they only scored 3 points, so at least they didn't run up the score too

#34 Hendu for Kutch

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

Dolphins feel disrespected because the Patriots kept handing the ball off to Ridley...

http://boston.cbsloc...-disrespectful/

But hey, they only scored 3 points, so at least they didn't run up the score too


Wow.

I had to check to see if I was on a satire site while I was reading that. Jesus Christ, the bitching this team has to deal with is unreal.

#35 Al Zarilla


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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

Wow.

I had to check to see if I was on a satire site while I was reading that. Jesus Christ, the bitching this team has to deal with is unreal.

That is unreal. I'll be watching SF - MIA on Sunday and hope the 49ers beat the Dolphins on the level in which they (or the Pats) destroyed the Jets.

Edit, pretty rough reporting error in the article:

With the Patriots’ lead cut to just seven points midway through the fourth quarter of last week’s win, Tom Brady and the offense took over at the Miami 20-yard line and drove 77 yards...

Also, re-reading, I wonder if the Dolphins guys quoted meant more what the second guy said, i.e., it was really on them to stop the run game rather than that the Patriots were disrespecting their defense. Hard to believe someone could say something as stupid as what McDaniel supposedly said.

Edited by Al Zarilla, 07 December 2012 - 05:05 PM.


#36 LogansDad


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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:07 PM

Man, maybe when they play again in a couple weeks the Pats should win 63-2, and give them an intentional safety just for playing.

Disrespected because a team ran down your throat to close a close game out, took 7 minutes off the clock, and won?

I think maybe they don't know what disrespected means, and actually meant to use the word "embarrassed".

#37 DrewDawg


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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

Let this quote sink in:

“It really (ticked) me off. It was disrespectful to us to run the same play over and over and be successful



#38 soxfan121


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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:02 PM

Every Brady delivery is well-timed and, well, perfect.

#39 drleather2001


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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

I sincerely don't think those men know the definition of "disrespectful".

I think they are confusing it with "disgraceful", as in "It was disgraceful how they ran the same play and we couldn't stop it".

Because the alternative is just...disgraceful.

Edited by drleather2001, 07 December 2012 - 08:55 PM.


#40 nothumb

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:12 AM

Disrespectful is the new catch-all word this generation uses for "I, uh, don't like that."

Most frequently heard as an excuse for why the speaker has just done something stupid or uncouth.

#41 neil

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

It is completely bizarre to me how in football you get this super-macho element of "I will kill that man" but yet also a hell of a lot of boo hoo'ing about "running up the score" and "disrespect".

#42 Helmet Head

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

Edit: wrong thread

Edited by Helmet Head, 09 December 2012 - 05:36 PM.


#43 epraz


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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:15 PM

Dallas's offensive line is also pathetic.

#44 Ralphwiggum

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:16 AM

That Arizona loss earlier this year is going up on the mantle alonside the loss to the Browns from 2010 and the 2004 loss to the Dolphins for worst losses of the Belichick era to really, really bad teams.

#45 TheoShmeo


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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:46 AM

That Arizona loss earlier this year is going up on the mantle alonside the loss to the Browns from 2010 and the 2004 loss to the Dolphins for worst losses of the Belichick era to really, really bad teams.

Yup, though the 2012 Cards didn't appear to be as bad as we knew that the 2004 Fins and 2010 Browns were at the time those games were played.

Ray Horton's "feeling his oats" comments about the Pats' offense stands alone with regard to Pats opponents (other than the 2010 Jets) shooting their mouths off about the Pats after a game. I guess the Seahawks weren't telegraphing their plays on offense yesterday!

#46 SoxScout


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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:56 PM

tomecurran: The Patriots put a waiver claim in on WR Armon Binns, formerly of the Bengals. Didn't get him


Went to Maimi

#47 SMU_Sox


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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:08 PM

This game ought to show us how the Pats match up against better teams.

Houston is a top 5 defensive team by DVOA. They are almost equally as effective at stopping the run as they are the pass. Their offense is similarly balanced for 11th place in DVOA.

The Pats have the #1 offense, and 18th ranked defense. They are a top 10 team against the run, 7th, and 22nd against the pass (though that number has climbed).

Houston's offense has so many weapons I fear they will give the Pats fits unless they consistently get pressure on Schaub.

My final concern is their front 7 - Vollmer needs his A-game if they hope to contain JJ Watt. This is not an ideal matchup for the Pats especially without Edelman and Gronk. I think they'll win but this game is going to be a good yard stick for where they are and how much farther they need to go.

#48 tims4wins


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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:08 PM

Waaaah Belichick never answers questions waaaah

Q: The scout team is always integral to weekly preparation, but how important is it when you play teams outside the division you don't see often like the Texans and 49ers?

BB: That's really a great, great question and a great point. Every person on our team has a very important role, whether it's the starting quarterback or a practice squad player or trainers, video people, everybody, everybody across the board and everybody here has an important job and they're integral to the overall performance and quality of the team. Certainly practice, of all the things we do – we can watch film, we can have meetings, we can talk about stuff, we can look at diagrams and all that – but of all the things that we do, the most important thing we do is practice. That's our one chance to really go out there and execute plays as close to what it's going to be like in the game as we can simulate. Again, we can do a lot of the things that are important in our preparation but that's the one that comes the closest. So trying to replicate what we think we're going to get from our opponent or looks or personnel matchups or techniques that they use or whatever they use, it's critical to our preparation. The guys on the scout team do a great job with that and that includes really pretty much everybody. Because of the size of our roster and sometimes injuries and depth at certain positions, a lot of times guys are running on both sides of the ball. They're running their plays and then they turn around and we'll run the other team's plays. Or a lot of times, we'll take players and ask them to step in and run a certain route or a use a certain pass rush technique or block the way that another player [would] to simulate one of our opponents that maybe one of our starting players can do or that's kind of their style better than one of the scout team guys. It's everybody really being involved in that. We coach those players up on what the other team is doing and how to do it and those guys are very diligent and attentive to try to give their teammates a good look at what our opponent is going to do that week. You're right, it's a huge challenge with a team like Houston or San Francisco coming up with things that we really don't know very well, that we aren't familiar with like we are with some of the division teams on our schedule. Part of that is talking to the players and telling them and showing them how to do it. Part of it is them actually watching film of our opponents so they can paint that picture for ourselves, but for our team on the scout team. Our coaches that run the scout team really do a good job of trying to make the plays look as close to what they're going to look like in the games. It's a big part of what we do; a lot of people are involved in that. It's very important to the preparation of the overall football team on offense, defense and special teams. It's something we put a lot of work into and I think the players respond to it very well. As a group, they're not afraid to jump in there and try to help their teammates out by giving them a great look. Then when it's their turn to run the plays, the other guys on the other side of the ball do the same thing. It's one of the good things about this team. They work well together, they work hard and they work on the little things, which that's not a little thing, it's a big thing but it's something that happens kind of behind the scenes during the week. You don't see it on Sunday or Monday night, but it has a lot to do with what happens on Sunday or Monday night. They do a good job of that and it's really important.



#49 Youkilis vs Wild

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

That's great. I've always gotten the sense that he's willing to open up on questions that he deems worthy. But most questions, which deal in fluff (like that stupid "valuable Brady" question last night, for instance), he scoffs at.

#50 dynomite

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

That's great. I've always gotten the sense that he's willing to open up on questions that he deems worthy. But most questions, which deal in fluff (like that stupid "valuable Brady" question last night, for instance), he scoffs at.


Don't forget the person who asked him whether Vince Wilfork was the "most important player on the defense" or some such nonsense.




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