Look at the results. Three wins by a combined 4 points. Eight straight losses since.
Injuries have kicked in recently on offence but there aren't that many of defence.
The roster, recent all stars noted.
WR: Jackson (all star), maclin, avant, cooper, Johnson
TE: celek (all star)
RB: McCoy (all pro), brown ®
QB: Vick (all star), foles ®
Lt Peters out for season ( all pro) bell, Dunlop
Lg Mathis (all star)
C Kelce (injured)
Rg Watkins (1st round pick blah)
Rt herremans
DE cole (all star), babin (all star), tapp, graham (1st round pick) Hunt, curry
Dt Patterson (injured early season) Jenkins (all star) fletcher cox (1st round pick) Thornton
Lb Ryans (all star) Kendricks Jordan
Cb asomugha (all star) Rodgers-Cromarty (all star) Boykin ®
Safety Allen Coleman
That is a very impressive roster. Somehow the team went from top 3 in sacks to near the bottom despite upgrading the talent on the d-line!
The safety play is horrendous, as is tackling all over.
Is there a worse performance vs talent gap in recent memory?
One win by more than a single point, and that was by a whole two points.
Where is yammer by the way?
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The 2012 Philadelphia Eagles, the worst results relative to talent ever?
Started by
LondonSox
, Dec 03 2012 12:35 AM
23 replies to this topic
#2
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reasons within Reason
Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:54 AM
All that crap about having a "dream team" seems like a decade ago now though it was just before last season.
#3
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SoSH Member
Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:05 AM
I think there is some real talent on this team but not as much as the above list makes it seem. There are a lot of guys who might be described as "all stars" but the only truly elite players IMO are Nnamdi (and he has clearly fallen off), Cole, Peters, and McCoy.
Especially on the defensive side of the ball, a lot of these guys are just way overrated (DRC) or are living off reputations made in the past (Babin, Jenkins, Ryans). I think the Eagles have also learned the same lesson that the Patriots have in the past few years - in today's pass-happy NFL, if your safeties suck, then your defense is going to struggle mightily at times, almost no matter what is going on at other positions.
Especially on the defensive side of the ball, a lot of these guys are just way overrated (DRC) or are living off reputations made in the past (Babin, Jenkins, Ryans). I think the Eagles have also learned the same lesson that the Patriots have in the past few years - in today's pass-happy NFL, if your safeties suck, then your defense is going to struggle mightily at times, almost no matter what is going on at other positions.
Edited by Morgan's Magic Snowplow, 03 December 2012 - 01:05 AM.
#4
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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:16 AM
Well Babin had 18 sacks in 2011, so past reputation is pretty recent!
Ryans has actually been excellent this year, especially in the first half of the season.
Nnamdi is probably the one living most off name and rep this year.
The d-line has no obvious explanation for the drop off. The o-line has the injury excuse but there were graded as one of the best run blocking lines in football in 2011, by scouts inc and others. There was talent on this team. A lot of it.
I'm not sure the wr are a good fit as a team, all talented but no red zone or possession guy. I'm not sure avant is a top slot guy either.
The proof will be the future of course if these guys go elsewhere and perform or a new coach does a harbaugh and wins with no roster changes.
Ryans has actually been excellent this year, especially in the first half of the season.
Nnamdi is probably the one living most off name and rep this year.
The d-line has no obvious explanation for the drop off. The o-line has the injury excuse but there were graded as one of the best run blocking lines in football in 2011, by scouts inc and others. There was talent on this team. A lot of it.
I'm not sure the wr are a good fit as a team, all talented but no red zone or possession guy. I'm not sure avant is a top slot guy either.
The proof will be the future of course if these guys go elsewhere and perform or a new coach does a harbaugh and wins with no roster changes.
#5
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- 8,869 posts
leader of tebow zealotry
Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:46 AM
1. Is there a single guy you ID'ed as an "all star" playing to that level this season?
2. Does losing your best OL (Peters), the long-time OL coach, whiffing on Watkins and the on-going injuries of your QB negatively affect the performance of the team?
3. Does sticking with a D-coordinator who was a good OL coach despite last season's debacle make any sense?
4. Does firing said D-coordinator when the D wasn't the problem this season make any sense?
5. Isn't this all a long winded way of saying that the OL couldn't protect Vick, he got hurt, the offense struggled and the defense played below it's talent level because it was coasting on past reputations?
San Diego continues to hold the "most talent wasted" crown but y'all are definitely in the running.
2. Does losing your best OL (Peters), the long-time OL coach, whiffing on Watkins and the on-going injuries of your QB negatively affect the performance of the team?
3. Does sticking with a D-coordinator who was a good OL coach despite last season's debacle make any sense?
4. Does firing said D-coordinator when the D wasn't the problem this season make any sense?
5. Isn't this all a long winded way of saying that the OL couldn't protect Vick, he got hurt, the offense struggled and the defense played below it's talent level because it was coasting on past reputations?
San Diego continues to hold the "most talent wasted" crown but y'all are definitely in the running.
#6
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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:14 AM
I think it's likely another coach could come in and win next year with few roster changes.
One sign of lack of coaching and discipline is Bryce Brown and his fumble problems. He was carrying the ball with one hand in traffic last night when he fumbled.
I think most other coaches in the league would have stapled him to the bench after last week until he could demonstrate improved ball security. I don't know why Reid ran him out there again last night but it's a sign they've lost control.
I wonder if stories will come out after the season that Reid had checked out.
The good news is that Foles looks good. Last night he was accurate. He didn't get hit much, correct? Looked like he was doing a good job with the screen game and getting the ball out fast to keep the rush away. Very different than Vick. And that was/is Philly's biggest weakness, QB.
This year is a lost year but next year could be great with the right coach.
One sign of lack of coaching and discipline is Bryce Brown and his fumble problems. He was carrying the ball with one hand in traffic last night when he fumbled.
I think most other coaches in the league would have stapled him to the bench after last week until he could demonstrate improved ball security. I don't know why Reid ran him out there again last night but it's a sign they've lost control.
I wonder if stories will come out after the season that Reid had checked out.
The good news is that Foles looks good. Last night he was accurate. He didn't get hit much, correct? Looked like he was doing a good job with the screen game and getting the ball out fast to keep the rush away. Very different than Vick. And that was/is Philly's biggest weakness, QB.
This year is a lost year but next year could be great with the right coach.
#7
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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:43 AM
This has to be the worst year of Andy Reid's life.
#8
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posts 18% useful shit
Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:51 AM
1. Is there a single guy you ID'ed as an "all star" playing to that level this season?
2. Does losing your best OL (Peters), the long-time OL coach, whiffing on Watkins and the on-going injuries of your QB negatively affect the performance of the team?
3. Does sticking with a D-coordinator who was a good OL coach despite last season's debacle make any sense?
4. Does firing said D-coordinator when the D wasn't the problem this season make any sense?
5. Isn't this all a long winded way of saying that the OL couldn't protect Vick, he got hurt, the offense struggled and the defense played below it's talent level because it was coasting on past reputations?
San Diego continues to hold the "most talent wasted" crown but y'all are definitely in the running.
I guess it depends on your definition. That team made the playoffs and got pretty close to the SuperBowl a few times. I certainly think they had more talent on their team, but what is "more wasted talent"? A team blowing playoff games (fumbling game clinching INT's, missing easy FG's, etc.) or a team that bottoms out with an all-star roster?
Edited by Kenny F'ing Powers, 03 December 2012 - 08:51 AM.
#9
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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:52 AM
It is amazing to see what's happened with this roster. The stories about this "all-start" team in 2011 look hilarious now.
I think coaching is a big part of the issue. Reid is terrible, and has been mocked for years for his terrible clock management. And when things started to go south this year and his offense sucked, he fired his D coordinater. The unit was under performing, but was in much better shape than the offense.
This is really a lesson that spending sprees in free agency doesn't work in the NFL. If a team really wants to retain someone, they usually do. If they let a player go in his prime, their's a reason for it. As much as we'd love Bill to go on a spending spree each spring to upgrade positions, it doesn't work. Free agency is for finding that one piece you need, but if you want to do major re-tooling, you need to do it through the draft and bring players up in your system.
I think coaching is a big part of the issue. Reid is terrible, and has been mocked for years for his terrible clock management. And when things started to go south this year and his offense sucked, he fired his D coordinater. The unit was under performing, but was in much better shape than the offense.
This is really a lesson that spending sprees in free agency doesn't work in the NFL. If a team really wants to retain someone, they usually do. If they let a player go in his prime, their's a reason for it. As much as we'd love Bill to go on a spending spree each spring to upgrade positions, it doesn't work. Free agency is for finding that one piece you need, but if you want to do major re-tooling, you need to do it through the draft and bring players up in your system.
#10
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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:54 AM
Everything went down hill for Philly when they stupidly decided to give Vick a shit ton of cash after 1 1/2 seasons of football.
I'll defend the Nnamdi move, the guy was spectacular in Oakland, and he has been ok in Philly, not max contract worthy, but not awful.
Two of those guys you mentioned, DRC and Jackson are beyond overrated, and so is Vick for that matter.
I'll defend the Nnamdi move, the guy was spectacular in Oakland, and he has been ok in Philly, not max contract worthy, but not awful.
Two of those guys you mentioned, DRC and Jackson are beyond overrated, and so is Vick for that matter.
#11
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- 9,400 posts
SoSH Member
Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:02 AM
Right up there with the 2011-12 Boston Red Sox, who combined the underperformance of the Eagles with the drama of the Jets.
I feel for Philly fans, who can follow our footsteps through the valley of death.
I feel for Philly fans, who can follow our footsteps through the valley of death.
#12
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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:26 AM
Carolina also deserves to be in the discussion. Start off with an extremely underwhelming performance by Cam Newton this season. They have one of the most consistent wideouts in football with Steve Smith, and good second options in Brandon Lafell and Greg Olsen. They have pro bowlers on the offensive line with Kalil and Jordan Gross, and roughly $2 billion tied up in RBs. On defense, they have the well-paid Charles Johnson on the line and two really good LB's in Kuechley and John Beason. And this team is 3-9, unbelievable.
#13
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- 12,776 posts
SoSH Member
Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:31 AM
San Diego long held the title of 'most wasted talent', but I really don't see that one can make the case that this year they have a better roster than the Eagles do.
Ironically, Reid is already being rumored as the next coach in SD, too.
Ironically, Reid is already being rumored as the next coach in SD, too.
#14
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is not worried about sex with goats
Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:36 AM
To be fair, let's remember that the guy who put the "Dream Team" label on them is now:
1) out of the league
and
2) broke
Just one year later.
1) out of the league
and
2) broke
Just one year later.
#15
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- 8,395 posts
@jsinger121
Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:13 PM
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Andy Reid said Nick Foles is Eagles starting QB the rest of the season.
#16
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- 3,156 posts
Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:00 PM
Eagles fire jim Washburn
http://www.philly.co..._Washburn_.html
Now that's a more defensible move given the shocking underperformance of the dline, despite playing a system designed to get more pressure at the expense of some run d. He also apparently undermined Castillo to the players and freaked after babin was released.
There is an article in the inquirer that says Reid is trying to hang on by blaming coaches and injuries while trying to show the talent he brought in, in recent drafts.
Given he choose those coaches and the firings have so led to worst results I laugh at it but I'm also a little scared. Like bobby v might have been spared scared.
http://www.philly.co..._Washburn_.html
Now that's a more defensible move given the shocking underperformance of the dline, despite playing a system designed to get more pressure at the expense of some run d. He also apparently undermined Castillo to the players and freaked after babin was released.
There is an article in the inquirer that says Reid is trying to hang on by blaming coaches and injuries while trying to show the talent he brought in, in recent drafts.
Given he choose those coaches and the firings have so led to worst results I laugh at it but I'm also a little scared. Like bobby v might have been spared scared.
#17
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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:02 PM
You forgot scored like the lowest score ever on the Wonderlic, a 6. Which might be more relevant even that being a terrible player when it comes to shooting your mouth offTo be fair, let's remember that the guy who put the "Dream Team" label on them is now:
1) out of the league
and
2) broke
Just one year later.
#18
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Wants to be startin somethin
Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:24 PM
Vince Young is broke!? I guess I shouldn't be that surprised, and yet I still am.
#19
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cried at Les Miz
Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:57 PM
Vince Young is broke!? I guess I shouldn't be that surprised, and yet I still am.
I figured he made enough at Texas to be set for life.
#20
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- 8,140 posts
is not worried about sex with goats
Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:05 PM
Vince Young is broke!? I guess I shouldn't be that surprised, and yet I still am.
Yup. Lots of crazy stories. Spent like $6K/week at the Cheesecake Factory and TGI Fridays, once bought every ticket on a commercial flight. Well, except for the 10 that were already sold. So the plane was 10 random people and VY's entourage.
#21
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- 1,086 posts
Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:31 PM
Yup. Lots of crazy stories. Spent like $6K/week at the Cheesecake Factory and TGI Fridays, once bought every ticket on a commercial flight. Well, except for the 10 that were already sold. So the plane was 10 random people and VY's entourage.
Wow. That's very different from blowing your money at Vegas or at strip clubs. To blow 6k/wk at TGIF he had to be feeding 50 of his closest 'friends' and family. Which is borne out by the plane entourage.
If he's mainly broke because he gave money to anyone who asked, that's sad.
#22
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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:33 PM
What's more shocking than him being broke is that he's out of the league. He's not 32 and he's not Charlie Batch. He can't find ONE job as a back-up to resurrect his career? What happened? I mean, did he just break down? Have you seen some of the QB's in this league? It's unreal how he fell to Earth and it shows why the Texans are the Texans and the Titans are the Titans..."You better draft him, he'll be a STAR!!"
#23
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- 13,192 posts
King of the Avatards
Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:38 PM
What's more shocking than him being broke is that he's out of the league. He's not 32 and he's not Charlie Batch. He can't find ONE job as a back-up to resurrect his career? What happened? I mean, did he just break down? Have you seen some of the QB's in this league? It's unreal how he fell to Earth and it shows why the Texans are the Texans and the Titans are the Titans..."You better draft him, he'll be a STAR!!"
He was a huge talent but he was also a head case.
#24
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- 2,008 posts
Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:45 PM
The Phillies have won a game (October 1) more recently than the Eagles (September 30).
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