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SOSH

OK we're back on our main server.  It was taking a super long time to move *everything* back just to save a day's worth of messages.  I've been at this all day now and need to get back to my real job so.,... sorry.  Working on a better plan in case this happens again.  nip

Photo

AIDS Truck and Copyright: Help me out


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18 replies to this topic

#1 jose melendez


  • Earl of Acie


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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:38 PM

So I talked to a guy at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch today about using a picture of the 2004 celebration and he said they're cool, but we need permission from MLB. They're agreement allows them to use pictures for game coverage but not beyond.

Does anyone have a good MLB or Red Sox contact they could work with on this? If so, could you do outreach to them?

I think if we can get either of those to engage with us we can deal with this copyright stuff right away. In general, the Sox have not been helpful on this project (not unhelpful either, they've just ignored me). I really want to get this resolved soon as the truck will be in Arusha in short order.

#2 amh03


  • Tippi Hedren


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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:08 AM

I'm sorry I don't have a contact...hopefully someone has already pm'd you and a solution is being worked out. But I had a thought on an alternative design, should this continue to be an issue...how would a design with the SoSH logo look? Maybe even incorporate something with the SIC logo? Or is that already going to be on the truck? I was just brainstorming, too, maybe design a bunch of members' names or SoSH id's. Heck, put some pics of SoSHer's on there, maybe from the Bash (not the really drink ones of course)...

Afterall, it was the efforts of dedicated, caring members of this group that raised the funding to buy the truck....sure, our central passion is the Sox and in an ideal world we could use that as the decoration theme. But if this is all starting to become a problem, maybe we look at a Plan B?

#3 CoRP

  • 3709 posts

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:27 AM

Alternatively, you paint it on the truck and ignore the copyright issue completely. Is MLB really going to sue? That would be some great PR there...

#4 MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

  • 3475 posts

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:39 AM

Yeah, if we have the photographer's permission, I'm quite sure we have fair use. This is not a commercial enterprise we're talking about here.

#5 epraz


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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:48 AM

Yeah, if we have the photographer's permission, I'm quite sure we have fair use.


Fair use has nothing to do with the photographer's permission. There's two issues--who owns the photograph and who/what appears in the photograph. Even if you have the copyright owner's permission (the photographer may or may not own the copyright), it could be seen as an endorsement of your enterprise by MLB/the Red Sox.

With all that said, CoRP has a pretty good point. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the project--this is all happening in Africa?

#6 jose melendez


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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:53 AM

Yeah, the odds of this going south are low, which is good, but I am trying to be a good guy and do this the "right" way.

If I could deal with the right people, I don't think it would be a problem to get permission, but the systems are so convuluted it's making me nuts. One we or another, we'll get stuff on the truck though. The backup is to give the artist a few photos and have him do his own interpretation, though that could get us some dicey images.

It will workout in the end.

#7 TallerThanPedroia


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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:27 AM

Fair use has nothing to do with the photographer's permission. There's two issues--who owns the photograph and who/what appears in the photograph. Even if you have the copyright owner's permission (the photographer may or may not own the copyright), it could be seen as an endorsement of your enterprise by MLB/the Red Sox.


There are also trademark issues and likeness rights issues. I applaud Jose for wanting to be upright about it but it's quite the potential morass to navigate. The worst that will happen from just going ahead is that somehow a cease and desist letter will find its way to Tanzania and they can either ignore it or... repaint the truck.

The issue here:

So I talked to a guy at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch today about using a picture of the 2004 celebration and he said they're cool, but we need permission from MLB. They're agreement allows them to use pictures for game coverage but not beyond.


Is that bit Remy always says: "....may not be reproduced or retransmitted in any form, and the accounts and descriptions of this game may not be disseminated without express written consent."

Which is way overbroad but media outlets are more interested in preserving access than pushing back.

#8 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:13 AM

Yeah, the odds of this going south are low, which is good, but I am trying to be a good guy and do this the "right" way.

If I could deal with the right people, I don't think it would be a problem to get permission, but the systems are so convuluted it's making me nuts. One we or another, we'll get stuff on the truck though. The backup is to give the artist a few photos and have him do his own interpretation, though that could get us some dicey images.

It will workout in the end.


I've got $20 to send Rip over there to do the job. Who's with me?

#9 OttoC


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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:16 AM

Instead of going to the Red Sox, why not call the Commissioner's office and tell them what you are trying to do. While MLB and the clubs want to control their images, they also do not want any negative publicity that could appear if they refuse cooperation without a reasonable explanation. I'm sure that it wouldn't be hard to find some media outlet who would be happy to run with that story.

#10 bankshot1


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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:58 AM

Offer MLB a token payment ($1) for the one-time use of their photo for this specific project, That might protect them from future unauthorized use of their copyrights. Also allow MLB to put out a press release (their option) about their involvement in this humanitarian project

#11 GreenMonsterVsGodzilla

  • 221 posts

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:11 AM

Not a lawyer, but I do a fair amount of work around fair use in relation to film work. This is a great site that breaks down some of the current thoughts about fair use: http://www.newmediar...e_copyright_law.

You'll get a lot more leeway if your use is educational or transformative...sounds like you may know this already...

Also keep in mind that the situation is constantly changing as new cases come before the courts. the internet has made this a swift-moving field...also, fair use is not an "affirmative right," it is a possible legal defense - so it may not protect you from legal action. I tend to agree that it's pretty unlikely that anyone's going to come after you if you use the pics, but good to know your standing ahead of time.

Good luck!

#12 jose melendez


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:32 AM

Great news, we got permission from MLB to use the St. Louis Post-Dispatch's World Series photo! Thanks MLB!

#13 ToeKneeArmAss


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:53 AM

Wow - that IS great news Jose. Guess you found the right guy at MLB.

#14 amh03


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:43 AM

That's awesome news!

#15 SoxVindaloo

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:18 AM

Way to go JM! This was a hard get when the easy thing to do would be to hope MLB nerds never found out what was going on in Tanzania. Well Done.

#16 MentalDisabldLst


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:22 AM

Nice job, Jose. It can be tough to get a large organization to make decisions quickly. How did it go down? Did you just call up the commissioner's office, or did you have more direct referrals?

#17 jose melendez


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:34 AM

I sent an email to the MLB photos email address and it took me maybe 10 days to hear back.

I still need to deal with the Pedro one, but that has an easy out as there are approximately a million awesome Pedro photos. That also leaves open the option of just giving the artist a few to work from and just having him do his own thing.

Edited by jose melendez, 05 December 2012 - 10:35 AM.


#18 TallerThanPedroia


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:35 PM

Nice! I may have to recalibrate my cynicism.

#19 jose melendez


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:58 PM

Nice! I may have to recalibrate my cynicism.


Eh, don't do that yet. We'll have some updates on the insane bureaucracy of getting the truck out of Tanzanian customs soon enough.




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