50 replies to this topic

[jon abbey]

2 years, $16M is what's being reported:

https://twitter.com/...512623882645504

[Rudy Pemberton]

Wow.

Where are the Jays getting all this cash from?

[jon abbey]

Ken Rosenthal confirms on Twitter.

Olney's guess at a TOR lineup:

SS Reyes LF Cabrera RF Bautista DH Encarnacion 3B Lawrie 1B Lind C Arencibia CF Rasmus 2B Izturis/Bonifacio

[jsinger121]

Wow.

Where are the Jays getting all this cash from?

Rogers Communications has a little bit of dough.

[Paradigm]

Holy shit, what a lineup. That could be the best lineup in baseball.

[Paradigm]

Do they even have a manager yet?

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Do they even have a manager yet?

They don't. Sure seems like they're trying to make it an attractive proposition to go north of the border, though.

[Robbie Rayzor]

Do they even have a manager yet?

No, but given that lineup, there might be a latin hire...Fuck me that's going to be more potent than a syringe full of Winstrol....

[rembrat]

Holy shit, what a lineup. That could be the best lineup in baseball.

Are you looking at a different lineup?

[TheoShmeo]

To state the blindlingly obvious, that seems like a lot of coin to a guy who has never produced much without mother's little helpers.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Talk about GFIN!


Maybe they'll hire Bobby V?

Edited by Lose Remerswaal, 16 November 2012 - 03:21 PM.

[armyguy25]

Wow.

Where are the Jays getting all this cash from?

Richest owner in pro sports, Rogers is a multi media comglomerate with a market cap of $21 billion.

They've just been cheap as hell up until now. Looks like something changed for them.

[BobbyVsToiletSeat]

To state the blindlingly obvious, that seems like a lot of coin to a guy who has never produced much without mother's little helpers.

He has Joey Bats and Encarnarcion to help him, don't worry

[armyguy25]

Ken Rosenthal confirms on Twitter.

Olney's guess at a TOR lineup:

SS Reyes LF Cabrera RF Bautista DH Encarnacion 3B Lawrie 1B Lind C Arencibia CF Rasmus 2B Izturis/Bonifacio

Probably the best 1-5 in baseball. The past two NL batting champs (obviously not officially, just going by pure numbers) - one with a ton of speed - in front of two probable 40 HR guys.

Then in the bottom half of the lineup you've got Lawrie, Rasmus and Arencibia. Obviously those last two are not super highly regarded lately and have some OBP challanges. But both are going to hit you 25-30 HR in a healthy season, and Rasmus plays plus defense in CF. Not too bad for bottom of the order guys.

[armyguy25]

To state the blindlingly obvious, that seems like a lot of coin to a guy who has never produced much without mother's little helpers.

Meh. Swuishers going to get $15 million per. Melky doesn't have to be 2012 for this to be a great deal.

Most often in long term deals, you only really want the first half. You pay for the 2nd half of the deal to get the first. We've (and yes, I'm a diehard Jays fan) just got his two prime years for a really good deal.

As well, it'd be different if he had a Brady Anderson explosion. But if you look at his power nbumbers, his double and HR are pretty much exactly in line with career norms. What really got better was his plate discipline......PED's didn't do that.

[RingoOSU]

If he's 2005-2010 Melky it's a terrible deal. The Jays are gambling Melky wasn't juicing in KC.

[nattysez]

If they are really GFIN, they should sign Swisher to play first and hit fifth.

I'm not convinced Johnson and Buehrle are going to do much v. the AL East, so I doubt that the Jays' pitching is good enough to win the division. That said, I don't see the Sox leaving the basement of the AL East next year.

This is funny: http://i.imgur.com/EMo40.jpg

Edited by nattysez, 16 November 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[brs3]

Meh. Swuishers going to get $15 million per. Melky doesn't have to be 2012 for this to be a great deal.

Most often in long term deals, you only really want the first half. You pay for the 2nd half of the deal to get the first. We've (and yes, I'm a diehard Jays fan) just got his two prime years for a really good deal.

As well, it'd be different if he had a Brady Anderson explosion. But if you look at his power nbumbers, his double and HR are pretty much exactly in line with career norms. What really got better was his plate discipline......PED's didn't do that.

bold is incorrect. His 2012 is roughly 200 AB fewer than his 2011 full season,so that's why it looks more in line with his career numbers. It's very possible his enhancement allowed him to stay on the field when previously he would've needed a day off. I'm sure he'll duplicate his 2012 numbers as is, with a much lower change made in avg/obp/slg. The Jays should get excited for 8-10 HRs and 25 doubles, power-wise.

edit: clarification

Edited by brs3, 16 November 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[Fred not Lynn]

Richest owner in pro sports, Rogers is a multi media comglomerate with a market cap of $21 billion.

They've just been cheap as hell up until now. Looks like something changed for them.

Well, they're a little light on content for their numerous regional and national sports channels these days...and probably will be until at least next October. Don't mistake the Blue Jays for being a "small market" team...they've got as big a coverage area and population as any other MLB team when they want to.

[cshea]

Richest owner in pro sports, Rogers is a multi media comglomerate with a market cap of $21 billion.

They've just been cheap as hell up until now. Looks like something changed for them.

No hockey is what changed.

[Sprowl]

Wow.

Where are the Jays getting all this cash from?

Rogers Communications has a little bit of dough.

Revenue comes in in loonies, costs go out in greenbacks, and the loonie is at parity, with a good chance of rising against the US dollar (y'all are really in hock down there). I thought the Blue Jays would spend big as early as 2011, but it seems they had some roster-cleaning to do first.

[Lose Remerswaal]

No, but given that lineup, there might be a latin hire...Fuck me that's going to be more potent than a syringe full of Winstrol....

Ozzie?

[SemperFidelisSox]

Sandy Alomar.

[moondog80]

Holy shit, what a lineup. That could be the best lineup in baseball.

Slow down. Encarnacion and Melky are huge regression candidates, Lind has had three years running of OPS+ < 100, and Lawrie/Rasmus took steps back this year. They'll be good but they won't lead the league in runs.

[Yo La Tengo]

I predict this is going to be the best move of the winter... wish the sox could have been the beneficiary of that discount.

[MoGator71]

I'm not convinced they're done. There's probably a decent chance they try to move Lind, and that opens up a spot for a better hitter, and some flexibility since they can just play Encarnacion at 1B and get any old hitter and rotate the DH or go after a regular DH. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them move Arencibia and open up C for D'Arnaud.

[Fred not Lynn]

With due aplogies to the Raptors and even some to the CFL - the Blue Jays are the only game in town until Bettman and Fehr get their collective heads out of their collective asses. And when I say "town", I mean "Uncle Ted's Giant Cross-Continental 35 Million Person Village".

[jon abbey]

It's becoming increasingly clear (if it ever wasn't once Boras was hired) that if Cano has another Cano-level season, he and Boras are going to get an insane deal out of either NY or someone else, 8/200 at a guess. I don't know how tight he and his old buddy Melky still are, but I have to think TOR got a lot more attractive this week for him. This is one that NY is likely going to end up fucked on either way they go, either for the first few years (not being able to come close to replacing his production) or the last few (albatross*).

*Monty Python clip I am too lazy to link

[Comeback Kid]

It's becoming increasingly clear (if it ever wasn't once Boras was hired) that if Cano has another Cano-level season, he and Boras are going to get an insane deal out of either NY or someone else, 8/200 at a guess. I don't know how tight he and his old buddy Melky still are, but I have to think TOR got a lot more attractive this week for him. This is one that NY is likely going to end up fucked on either way they go, either for the first few years (not being able to come close to replacing his production) or the last few (albatross*).

*Monty Python clip I am too lazy to link

You make a good point about the Yankees dilemma with Cano, but AA is on record saying they will not go beyond a five year deal with any player. I suppose that could be a bluff for negotiating purposes but so far they have stuck to that stance.

[reggiecleveland]

What really got better was his plate discipline......PED's didn't do that.

That is one of those oft repeated myths. A juicer is much stronger, has greater bat speed is recovers faster so is rarely fatigued. All of these things add up to the guy feeling way better, but more importantly a shitload of batspeed that lets a guy stay back on pitches. A clean guy may swing and miss at pitches he fouled off while loaded, or find he has to start the bat earlier. The stuff he used was probably a cream or testosterone patch which would fall into the "feeling fucking awesome focused like motherfucker" column more than "turns green and hits the ball 900 feet" column.

Remember all the people defending Clemens because he wasn't throwing 97 and getting guys out with splits. There are advantages to juice other than pure power.

I really hope it was the juice that helped him, and he has a shitload of nagging injuries and hits like shit.

Edited by reggiecleveland, 16 November 2012 - 11:25 PM.

[abty]

There is not one player they aquired that will be Verlander or Cabrera. Usually when teams load up on 'talent' like that, at a high cost, it busts. This will be no different in 2013 for the, at best, third place Blue Jays. Also, Cano is not getting $200m. If the Yankees are that stupid, Jeter bless them but I think those days are Mariano Rivera (I hope).

Edited by abty, 16 November 2012 - 11:30 PM.

[MikeM]

I predict this is going to be the best move of the winter... wish the sox could have been the beneficiary of that discount.

Not sure i would go as far as to immediately label this a "discount"....but yeah, had my support as well in the event it ended up being us taking this flyer.

[jon abbey]

You make a good point about the Yankees dilemma with Cano, but AA is on record saying they will not go beyond a five year deal with any player. I suppose that could be a bluff for negotiating purposes but so far they have stuck to that stance.

Oh, right, I forgot that, that makes me feel better, thanks.

[Kramerica Industries]

Oh, right, I forgot that, that makes me feel better, thanks.

not so fast:

AA on 5-yr #Jays limit on contracts: "There hasn’t been any talk of going beyond it right now. You never say never, things can change"

https://twitter.com/...986424333647872

[MartyBarrettMVP]

Do they even have a manager yet?

Olney:

The Jays are close to announcing their next manager. Two of the final names they discussed were Jim Tracy and Jim Riggleman.

https://twitter.com/...825335028236288

[Savin Hillbilly]

This is one that NY is likely going to end up fucked on either way they go, either for the first few years (not being able to come close to replacing his production) or the last few (albatross*).

*Monty Python clip I am too lazy to link

We could always offer you Stolmy Pimentel on a stick to go with him.

I think you're probably right on the money with the $25M AAV, but I can't really see a 2B, even Cano, getting an 8-year deal at age 31. Although I suppose with his offensive profile he could move to the outfield at some point and still earn that money.

In other news, it'll be interesting to see what impact, if any, the Melky deal has on the Cody Ross market.

[chrisfont9]

Fuck it, I'm rooting for the Jays next year. If the Sox can't win, I can't think of a better scenario than the Jays going on a Loonie spree and baseball's politest audience having it all work out great, for once.

[abty]

Jim Tracy or Jim Riggleman...wow.

[Burgmeier In LF]

Jim Tracy or Jim Riggleman...wow.

I would take either one of them if I were a Jays fan. Riggleman (even with his quitting/standoff with ownership of the Nats) may be a good fit up there. Wonder if Bobby V's agent dares to throw his hat (took?) in the ring....
If I were them I would also look at the candidates the Red Sox brought in, with special note to Tim Wallach and Sandy Alomar....

[Rough Carrigan]

If I were a Jays fan I'd be really wary of Jim Tracy. He seemed to play some guys out of spite toward Paul Depodesta in L.A. and there have been some pretty strongly negative opinions from some folks about his work in Pittsburgh and Colorado.

[Montana Fan]

Heard a caller on MLB suggest that the D-Backs want a SS back for J Upton and AA is in talks. Reyes could be a short timer in Canada.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Heard a caller on MLB suggest that the D-Backs want a SS back for J Upton and AA is in talks. Reyes could be a short timer in Canada.

Isn't a big part of the DBacks looking to move Upton his increasing salary? Would seem strange to offload him only to get a more expensive player on a longer deal in return. And hasn't AA moved his other shortstops this fall already? I can see the attraction of Upton, but it would be adding a luxury item at the expense of weakening a key position to trade Reyes for him.

[SayWhat?]

The Jays have one trade left, likely. Moving Arencibia or D'Arnaud seems most plausible.

I think they'd like to do better than J.A. Happ in the rotation.

[Al Zarilla]

If I were a Jays fan I'd be really wary of Jim Tracy. He seemed to play some guys out of spite toward Paul Depodesta in L.A. and there have been some pretty strongly negative opinions from some folks about his work in Pittsburgh and Colorado.

Tracy's usage of his starting pitchers at Colorado in 2012 where they were allowed to go four innings or 75 pitches and then get pulled was very bizarre. He could say he had nothing but very young starters post Ubaldo and he was protecting them, but they weren't 12 years old. I'd have a lot of trouble getting my mind around that practice and justifying Tracy for another ML managing job if I were a team looking for a manager.

[derekson]

Heard a caller on MLB suggest that the D-Backs want a SS back for J Upton and AA is in talks. Reyes could be a short timer in Canada.

This doesn't really make any sense. Their OF is already pretty set with Melky, Rasmus, and Bautista. I guess they could move Bautista to first base, but keeping the 3-4 win short stop seems like a better play than trading for another OFer. Especially when you consider that they've still got Gose around, who wasn't impressive last year but who they presumably still see as a part of the future.

[mwonow]

This doesn't really make any sense. Their OF is already pretty set with Melky, Rasmus, and Bautista. I guess they could move Bautista to first base, but keeping the 3-4 win short stop seems like a better play than trading for another OFer. Especially when you consider that they've still got Gose around, who wasn't impressive last year but who they presumably still see as a part of the future.

Plus Bautista's arm would be wasted on first.

If I'm the Jays, I'm feeling pretty good about 2013 already (and living in TO, I'm feeling really good about the fact that there are tickets available for every game!). 1B is the only position where they'll have a clearly sub-average starter

[MikeM]

This doesn't really make any sense. Their OF is already pretty set with Melky, Rasmus, and Bautista. I guess they could move Bautista to first base, but keeping the 3-4 win short stop seems like a better play than trading for another OFer. Especially when you consider that they've still got Gose around, who wasn't impressive last year but who they presumably still see as a part of the future.

Unless of course the willingness to take on Reyes to begin with partially revolved around a need to trump the trade offers Miami was already getting on the other guys (who were going to generate/require better trade offers then many on this board seemed to believe they would, imo).

Reyes may have some present day appeal, but $16m in 2014 is pretty meh, and that 3 year back end of his contract is Carl Crawford bloody-murder-scream-waiting-to-happen bad. AA turning around now and cashing in with a re-flip trade would make all the sense in the world, while bordering on brilliant if he netted something substantial like J Upton out of it.

Additional moves would obviously be needed to make it all work...but yeah.

Edited by MikeM, 19 November 2012 - 12:42 AM.

[Spacemans Bong]

Wow.

Where are the Jays getting all this cash from?

As the others have said: ultra-rich megacorp, only baseball team for entire G8 country, hockey lockout, etc.

But with the buzz they had this year with the new uniforms and being seen as possible contenders in the AL East, attendance went up by 15%, TV ratings were up by almost 20%. That's built mainly on growth during a solid couple of months before their pitching staff completely imploded, with hockey as competition.

So Rogers have received some positive feedback from fans that if they invest in a winner they'll get the attendance and TV ratings boost they need to make money. Plus they obviously have confidence in Anthopolous.

[derekson]

Unless of course the willingness to take on Reyes to begin with partially revolved around a need to trump the trade offers Miami was already getting on the other guys (who were going to generate/require better trade offers then many on this board seemed to believe they would, imo).

Reyes may have some present day appeal, but $16m in 2014 is pretty meh, and that 3 year back end of his contract is Carl Crawford bloody-murder-scream-waiting-to-happen bad. AA turning around now and cashing in with a re-flip trade would make all the sense in the world, while bordering on brilliant if he netted something substantial like J Upton out of it.

Additional moves would obviously be needed to make it all work...but yeah.

They also traded away their starting SS (Yunel Escobar) and their top MI prospect (Hechavarria) in the deal. Turning around and dumping Reyes makes no sense in this context. It would be shocking.

[MikeM]

They also traded away their starting SS (Yunel Escobar) and their top MI prospect (Hechavarria) in the deal. Turning around and dumping Reyes makes no sense in this context. It would be shocking.

Escobar put up a .253/.300/.344 line last season, and probably was on the way out the door given last season's drama/overall rep anyway (i believe it's already been rumored that Miami will be trying to re-flip him). Hechavarria could simply have been a key positional piece in what the Marlins were looking to get out of a return, who while being Toronto's "top MI prospect", isn't exactly of the caliber you hold up a big trade over.

Toronto also made it a point to go out and snag Izturis early, which while minor, is also worthy of potential note there imo. He's actually one of the guys i personally was viewing as a possible "can't realistically get any better on reasonable terms and decent insurance option to simply handing the job to Iglesias coming out of ST" option for us.

Like i stated, i see the appeal in Reyes there for the 2013 season. If AA has more of an eye on now AND the future then people are giving him credit for though, dumping Reyes' albatross contract for a positive return while you can would make a lot of sense here in my book. Or at least i'd be screaming for Ben to do so if it was us