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Farrell wants to hire two hitting coaches


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#1 Corsi


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

John Farrell says he would like to hire two hitting coaches. "We're going in that direction."

https://twitter.com/ESPNJoeyMac/status/266304305399742464
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#2 Corsi


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

Interviews to start this weekend, per McAdam.

#3 Rasputin


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:27 PM

I can see value in having multiple approaches, but couldn't your first or third base coach double as a hitting coach?

#4 SoxScout


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:27 PM

Doesn't seem crazy, Dodgers just hired John Valentin to be assistant hitting coach to Mark McGwire.

#5 BannedbyNYYFans.com

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

Doesn't seem crazy, Dodgers just hired John Valentin to be assistant hitting coach to Mark McGwire.


Padres, Braves, Phillies, and Cards have or have just added a second hitting coach.

#6 simplyeric


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:17 PM

Is this like a righty/lefty thing? A power thing? One guys who specializes in learning to read/take pitches?

#7 Papelbon's Poutine


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

I would imagine more mechanics vs. approach/prep type thing.

#8 David Laurila


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

Padres, Braves, Phillies, and Cards have or have just added a second hitting coach.


And Tigers.

Regarding the "why" it is mostly a workload issue. The demands of the job have evolved to where one coach is stretched thin. Video and hitters wanting extra work are factors.

#9 terrynever


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:39 PM

Yankees are going to have a regular season hitting coach and a postseason hitting coach in 2013. Reggie Jackson up for latter job.

#10 Robert Plant

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:08 PM

Padres, Braves, Phillies, and Cards have or have just added a second hitting coach.


This is a great idea. It worked out really well for the Padres this past season. Several hitters including Mr. Chase Headley showed remarkable improvement. The Padres had their main hitting coach, Phill Plantier working behind the scene while the second hitting coach working in the dugout. He was almost like a 2nd bench coach who specialized in prepping hitters for their next at bat.

Edited by Robert Plant, 07 November 2012 - 09:09 PM.


#11 mabrowndog


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:38 PM

Is this like a righty/lefty thing? A power thing? One guys who specializes in learning to read/take pitches?

I would imagine more mechanics vs. approach/prep type thing.


It's a workload thing. There are simply too many demands on a single coach to handle all the drills, the one-on-one assessments in the cage, the pitcher tendency breakdowns, etc.

#12 reggiecleveland


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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:52 PM

I can see value in having multiple approaches, but couldn't your first or third base coach double as a hitting coach?


Kind of hard to offer pre atbat advice from the coaches box. For all we know the 2nd coach will be in the clubhouse with a computer.

#13 curly2

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:32 PM

Maybe it's one coach for 24 guys and one to work full-time with Iglesias. ;)

But seriously, I hope one or both of the coaches can preach the virtue of working at bats and being selective. Guys like Middlebrooks, Iglesias (based on minor-league numbers) and Salty, especially, need to work on this. Middlebooks' slugging should make him a valuable player with a .325 OBP, but with a .360 OBP, he could be a monster.

#14 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:51 AM

Yankees are going to have a regular season hitting coach and a postseason hitting coach in 2013. Reggie Jackson up for latter job.


I hope you're kidding. :lol:

Reggie has been quoted as saying the day he hit 3 HRs in the WS clincher, he prepared by spending all day "relaxing" with a lady. Sound advice, really.

#15 John Marzano Olympic Hero


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:36 AM

So if the Sox hire two hitting coaches, who gets to watch the game from the dugout?

The reason why I ask this is because of the trouble that Pesky had a few years back when he watched the games from the dugout (and I think that Zimmer had the same spat with MLB in Tampa Bay). My understanding is that each team has x amount of coaches (I'm assuming five becuase of a pitching coach, first and third base coach, hitting coach and bench coach -- bullpen coaches are in the pen, obivously). Now with six coaches, and admittedly this is a very small problem (but that's what we do here), who is out?

And to be honest, I think that the idea of two hitting coaches is a bit of overkill. This isn't football, I don't think that there is a need for this. Plus, it can breed a whole new way of dividing the team: a group of guys side/listen to one coach, another group of guys side/listen to the other. For a clubhouse that was fractured to begin with, I don't think that this is the best way of promoting unity.

#16 sachilles


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:49 AM

I don't see it as divisive. If the coaches have defined roles it is a non issue. If the coaches are all on the same page they'll have a unified front with the players. If it's a case of LL wants one guy and Farrell wants a different guy and the compromise is to hire both, I can see that as an issue.
If Farrell wants two, he has involvement in their selection, I don't see the problem.
Whether they are a coach, consultant, or special assistant, for their relative cost it is money well spent.

#17 Red(s)HawksFan

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

So if the Sox hire two hitting coaches, who gets to watch the game from the dugout?

The reason why I ask this is because of the trouble that Pesky had a few years back when he watched the games from the dugout (and I think that Zimmer had the same spat with MLB in Tampa Bay). My understanding is that each team has x amount of coaches (I'm assuming five becuase of a pitching coach, first and third base coach, hitting coach and bench coach -- bullpen coaches are in the pen, obivously). Now with six coaches, and admittedly this is a very small problem (but that's what we do here), who is out?

And to be honest, I think that the idea of two hitting coaches is a bit of overkill. This isn't football, I don't think that there is a need for this. Plus, it can breed a whole new way of dividing the team: a group of guys side/listen to one coach, another group of guys side/listen to the other. For a clubhouse that was fractured to begin with, I don't think that this is the best way of promoting unity.


They ran into that problem by having an assistant pitching coach this season. Niemann wasn't allowed to suit up and be in the dugout during games except when McClure was on his "vacation" and of course, after they fired him. My guess would be that the one of the hitting coaches would be stationed in the batting cage behind the dugout during games. There, he'd be available to players who wanted to speak to him and he'd be close enough that he could grab whoever he wanted to speak to if he had something to bring to their attention. Which coach that would be on a daily basis could be determined by rotation or simply based on what the particular coaches strengths are. If one of them is more video oriented, he might be better off watching the hitters on TV rather than from the dugout anyway.

#18 RedOctober3829


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:48 AM

Source: Red Sox have had preliminary talks with former Yankee Tino Martinez for the hitting coach job.


https://twitter.com/ESPNJoeyMac/status/266582775828738049
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link to tweet

Joey Mac, EspnBoston

#19 bosockboy


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

https://twitter.com/ESPNJoeyMac/status/266582775828738049
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Joey Mac, EspnBoston


Huh....that's very surprising not only from the MFY angle, but Martinez has a reputation as a huge asshole.

#20 John Marzano Olympic Hero


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:54 AM

I don't see it as divisive. If the coaches have defined roles it is a non issue. If the coaches are all on the same page they'll have a unified front with the players. If it's a case of LL wants one guy and Farrell wants a different guy and the compromise is to hire both, I can see that as an issue.
If Farrell wants two, he has involvement in their selection, I don't see the problem.
Whether they are a coach, consultant, or special assistant, for their relative cost it is money well spent.


Really? Again, I may be forgetting some stuff here but off the top of my head I can think of four players (Mo Vaughn, Dwight Evans, Rich Gedman and Wade Boggs -- the first with Mike Easler, the rest with Walt Hriniak) who have said that a ML hitting coach has helped them out (at least publicly). I'm not exactly sure what two coaches will do, it seems inefficient to me.

And you don't think that this would be divisive? This is Boston, anything that rubs even a bit against the grain will be taken by our friends at the media and blown up. I remember when Easler was canned and Jim Rice was promoted to hitting coach and Vaughn would sometimes call Easler and ask him for some tips. Some writers caught wind of that and there was a week-long discussion about how "Mo Vaughn wasn't a team guy" and that "Mo Vaughn is spitting in the face of the Boston Red Sox" which devolved into "Is Jim Rice a good hitting coach?" which got the writers running to the other players asking for their takes on Vauhgn, Easler and Rice.

Could I see someone looking for an angle (especially if the Sox stink) and start questioning why are their two hitting coaches with two different philosophies (don't worry, they won't actually check on that) coaching this team? Yup, I could.

#21 JimD

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:14 PM

If the multiple coach arrangement is successful - if players improve and the team's hitting goes up overall - I don't see how any media attempts to create divisions would be successful. The simple response would be 'Hey, it works'.

#22 sachilles


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

So if a player doesn't specifically state that a coach has helped them, then obviously the coach has not helped them?
By the time a player hits the major leagues, they've had hundreds of coaches. Each contributing, some more than others. No doubt butting heads with some. Think a player has ever called up an old coach to bounce an idea off of them. They are adults, friendships happen.
In this case it's likely the two coaches will have different tasks within the heading of "hitting coach". What next, eliminate the bull pen coach, because you already have a pitching coach?
You don't think there is enough work load to support two hitting coaches?

Absolutely, it makes one more angle for the press to hammer on, but what else is new?

#23 uncannymanny

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:42 PM

Really? Again, I may be forgetting some stuff here but off the top of my head I can think of four players (Mo Vaughn, Dwight Evans, Rich Gedman and Wade Boggs -- the first with Mike Easler, the rest with Walt Hriniak) who have said that a ML hitting coach has helped them out (at least publicly). I'm not exactly sure what two coaches will do, it seems inefficient to me.


This is silly. In addition to sachilles point, many recent players have sung the praises of Madagan, both when he was here and when he departed a couple weeks ago.

And you don't think that this would be divisive? This is Boston, anything that rubs even a bit against the grain will be taken by our friends at the media and blown up. I remember when Easler was canned and Jim Rice was promoted to hitting coach and Vaughn would sometimes call Easler and ask him for some tips. Some writers caught wind of that and there was a week-long discussion about how "Mo Vaughn wasn't a team guy" and that "Mo Vaughn is spitting in the face of the Boston Red Sox" which devolved into "Is Jim Rice a good hitting coach?" which got the writers running to the other players asking for their takes on Vauhgn, Easler and Rice.

Could I see someone looking for an angle (especially if the Sox stink) and start questioning why are their two hitting coaches with two different philosophies (don't worry, they won't actually check on that) coaching this team? Yup, I could.


The Red Sox cannot be building their staff based on what the moronic press corps thinks. Isn't that one of the primary reasons we ended up with the BV debacle? The media is going to find something to do this about until they start winning. They should be (and seemingly are) ignoring them and do what's best for the team, not the CHBs of the world.

#24 John Marzano Olympic Hero


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:49 PM

So if a player doesn't specifically state that a coach has helped them, then obviously the coach has not helped them?


I didn't say that at all. But I'll save you the keystrokes and tell you that I certainly insinuated that. Though it is interesting to note that more pitchers seem to credit their pitching coaches than hitters credit their hitting coach.

By the time a player hits the major leagues, they've had hundreds of coaches. Each contributing, some more than others. No doubt butting heads with some. Think a player has ever called up an old coach to bounce an idea off of them. They are adults, friendships happen.


Okay, I guess.

In this case it's likely the two coaches will have different tasks within the heading of "hitting coach".


Then the question I have are: what are the two different tasks? And why are these tasks so monumental that it takes two people to do it?

What next, eliminate the bull pen coach, because you already have a pitching coach?


No. The bullpen coach has other responsibilities besides being an assistant pitching coach. You should know that.

You don't think there is enough work load to support two hitting coaches?


That's a bit obvious form my last postings, don't you think? I don't think that there is a big enough work load for two hitting coaches, but I'm only going on annecdotal evidence. There wasn't last year, there wasn't a big enough load in the last decade when the Sox were murdering American League pitching. I guess (other than having different players) I'm not sure what the difference in workloads is. Let me turn this around, in 2004 or 2007 or 2010 did you think that the Sox weren't hitting enough and needed to bring in another hitting coach?

Ultimately, it doesn't make a difference to me: I'm not paying the guy's salary. But I do know that two guys saying the same thing is a inefficient. And if they aren't saying the same thing, there is reason to believe that a mixed message is being sent. Personally, I think that a majority of MLB hitters ignore hitting coaches anyway or only go to them when they are really screwed up -- sort of a last resort. So now they can ignore two people instead of one.

Absolutely, it makes one more angle for the press to hammer on, but what else is new?


Anything it takes to make the press' life easy.

#25 mabrowndog


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

Huh....that's very surprising not only from the MFY angle, but Martinez has a reputation as a huge asshole.


Uhhh... From who?

Tino played here for Falmouth in the Cape League, and I got to know him and other Commodores players that year while working local summer jobs. We weren't best buds or anything, but he was far from an a-hole. The team and league folks I've talked with over the years have had nothing but great things to say about him (and yeah, I'm generally told off the record who the jagoffs are). Nothing I've ever seen or heard in his interviews or broadcasting work has raised any red flags. I can't recall any publicized incidents of any sort that put him in a negative light. The guy's been coaching, broadcasting, and/or working front office positions ever since retiring as a player, so if he were an "asshole" I doubt he'd remain employed and in continuous demand. He went back to Tampa to finish his degree last year a quarter-century after turning pro. I guess that's what assholes do. So if you've got anything, please post links and details to back it up.

As for the "MFY angle", can we please dispense with that nonsense? Why would his tenure with the Yankees be an issue? It's completely irrelevant. Do you really think Juan Nieves ending his career in the Yankees system gave any of the Red Sox decision makers any misgivings about interviewing or hiring the guy?

"Let's see, he's had a long and storied history of doing great things with pitchers at all levels and... WAIT, what's that?? He played for the Yankees????? <<insert sound effect of résumé being crumpled up and thrown in the trash>>"

#26 John Marzano Olympic Hero


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:27 PM

In addition to what Dog said, Martinez was also originally drafted by the Sox, but did not sign.

#27 Corsi


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:30 PM

In addition to what Dog said, Martinez was also originally drafted by the Sox, but did not sign.


Asshole.

#28 bosockboy


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

It is mostly from his time in St. Louis and since I live here....should've explained further than the throwaway comment.

He had a very poor clubhouse rep here and had the label of using the "Well in New York we did it this way" line; and it didn't play very well.

I'm sure he could be a fine hitting coach.

#29 mabrowndog


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:33 PM

Well, that must be it. After all, when a source as respected as Bleacher Report.com and a "correspondent" as experienced and reputable as Brandon McClintock declare you the most disliked person in the recent history of the Cardinals (Brandon himself determined this for all 30 MLB teams, so that must have been some seriously exhaustive research...), I guess that's all the evidence we need.

#30 Sausage in Section 17


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

Yankees are going to have a regular season hitting coach and a postseason hitting coach in 2013. Reggie Jackson up for latter job.


Will Reggie be eligible to collect unemployment when there's no work for him?

#31 Corsi


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

#RedSox have internally discussed Rudy Jaramillo and Matt Stairs for hitting coach jobs, but for now, neither are on top of the list

https://twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/266666403774488577
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#32 Corsi


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

#yanks gave OK for Tino Martinez to talk to #marlins, #redsox about hitting coach. Tougher to see tino in boston tho

https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/266672819071508481
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#33 Corsi


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:05 PM

Marlins name Tino Martinez hitting coach

https://twitter.com/DKnobler/status/266677209807335424
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#34 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:08 PM

nm

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 08 November 2012 - 07:11 PM.


#35 mabrowndog


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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

Tougher to see tino in boston tho

Marlins name Tino Martinez hitting coach


Yeah, as soon as I saw Florida was interested, I figured the writing was on the wall. Good for him.

But just to put the final nails in the coffin of the "Tino was a douche in St. Louis" stuff, this guy does a pretty thorough job of debunking it. Then there's comment #43 on this BTF post:

After the 2003 season Matt Morris took the time to write a letter to the Post-Dispatch saying the "Tino is a clubhouse cancer" stuff was bunk. Scott Rolen, who made his dislike of Drew known, said he didn't understand why Tino was let go.

Most of the clubhouse cancer stuff came from Bernie Miklasz.


To wit, here's one of the Miklasz columns that helped fan the flames of the anti-Tino bullshit. The guy has long been the Shank Shaughnessy of the Gateway Arch.




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