44 replies to this topic

[TheYellowDart5]

So sez Ken Rosenthal:

Ken Kendrick, the team's managing general partner, told a Phoenix radio station in October that Upton was "highly likely" to return.
Major-league sources, however, say the team is again engaged in active discussions about Upton, and one estimates the chances of him playing elsewhere next season are "80-20."

Also:

His no-trade list last season consisted of four teams: the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox,Cleveland Indians and Chicago Cubs.
The list has since changed, a source said.

http://msn.foxsports...on-trade-110712

[Trotsky]

I've seen a number of posters speculate that those no-trade lists don't usually mean much. I would imagine if for some reason the Yankees, Cubs or Sox were able to work out a likable deal with AZ, then he would probably wave it. I can't recall, but if there's some insight there it'd be appreciated.

That said, this is one of the few guys that we should be ALL IN on. He's young, 26 years old, so has at least 6 years of peak performance in him still. He hasn't had any truly dominating seasons yet (and 2 out of his last 3 have been sub .800 OPS (of course 2 out of his last 4 have been just a weeeeeee bit south of a .900 ops) so he could be had for a good price.

I would imagine Arizona would be looking for one of Rubby or Webster and most likely Boegarts also, and probably a filler piece.

I was hoping that we would end up at mid-season sending a package of Lester, Ellsbury, Lackey to a team like Milwaukee on the verge of a playoff push and they would send tons of prospects to Arizona (or some 3-team deal similar). If it involves Boegarts and one of those two hurlers I'm not sure how I'd feel.

[SoxScout]

Joel Sherman just tweeted that an exec says he will be moved and 'Keep eye on Redsox"

[Sausage in Section 17]

So I'll ask. Why is it we want a guy who was ticketed for sure stardom, hasn't quite realized it, is already moderately expensive, and who's team talks about trading him every year? While I know he still has all those tools, at this point I think it's safe to say that J. Upton is either overrated, or was overhyped.

2 years ago many teams would have unloaded half their system to get this guy. That was AZ's best chance to get good value. My fear is that they still think he's worth the high price. Hopefully Ben doesn't agree.

[Laser Show]

If we can do this without a) trading Bogaerts or b) completely clearing out the pitching cupboard in the minors, then I'm pumped.

[ForceAtHome]

So I'll ask. Why is it we want a guy who was ticketed for sure stardom, hasn't quite realized it, is already moderately expensive, and who's team talks about trading him every year? While I know he still has all those tools, at this point I think it's safe to say that J. Upton is either overrated, or was overhyped.

2 years ago many teams would have unloaded half their system to get this guy. That was AZ's best chance to get good value. My fear is that they still think he's worth the high price. Hopefully Ben doesn't agree.

How often do players of his caliber who have put up the kind of production he has (career 117 OPS+, individual seasons of 141 and 129) become available after their age 24 season? He'll be 25 years old heading into next year. He has shown he can be an upper echelon player in the league based on production and presumably the scouts see the tools and raw ability that made him a number 1 overall pick.

Depending on what his cost will be, I see every reason to at least kick the tires on him. He's a guy you can build a currently mediocre Red Sox team around to compete with in the future.

[TOleary25]

JIM BOWDEN‏@JimBowdenESPNxm
D-Backs looking to up-grade 3B, LH Reliever and a proven starting pitcher...open to trading Justin Upton if they can solve 2 or 3 ML holes

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm

Cecchini, Owens, Doubront, Brentz?

[Rasputin]

If we can do this without a) trading Bogaerts or b) completely clearing out the pitching cupboard in the minors, then I'm pumped.

I'm a little more hesitant, but Upton is a very talented guy who is a) relatively young, b) relatively experienced, c) not a free agent for four years. He's the kind of guy you're supposed to be willing to go after. I don't know what the price tag is and I don't know what ransom Upton would demand to waive his no trade, but the Red Sox have to be in this discussion.

[Puffy]

It's tricky to see where the Red Sox would match up with the Diamondbacks' needs. Their weaknesses are, probably, SP depth, SS, and 3B. Players of interest would potentially be Middlebrooks, Iglesias and some of the starting prospects (Barnes/Webster/RDLR/Owens). GM Kendrick has stated they are looking for any starting help, but especially top of the rotation SP, probably a veteran. That could put a bunch of other names on the table, like Lester, Buchholz, Doubront, maybe Bard, Aceves, even Lackey. With XB and Marrero on the way, I'd be fine trying to build a deal around Iglesias and then just grabbing a stopgap like Stephen Drew for SS.

If the Diamondbacks really covet Andrus, maybe a three way involving Ellsbury to the Rangers would fit, with the Red Sox pursuing Angel Pagan or another outfielder to hold down the fort in CF until JBJ is ready.

[SoxScout]

I'd be offering Doubront+ without hesitation, but I don't like him as much as most and I seem to like Upton more than most. We could dip into our BP depth to give them the LHRP they want, and then offer a few 10-20 prospect guys.

No idea if that sounds like a lot or a little, but I think it gives Arizona something to think about, at least. Cherington should definitely be in on this.

Edited by SoxScout, 07 November 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[RedOctober3829]

I'd be offering Doubront+ without hesitation, but I don't like him as much as most and I seem to like Upton more than most. We could dip into our BP depth to give them the LHRP they want, and then offer a few 10-20 prospect guys.

No idea if that sounds like a lot or a little, but I think it gives Arizona something to think about, at least.

Doubront, Andrew Miller, Brentz, and Cecchini?

[Hendu for Kutch]

I think if Arizona is going after a 3B, it's a major-league 3B. They already have a very good 3B prospect in Matt Davidson. I'm actually a little surprised they're so eager to block him, if those reports are accurate.

[ScubaSteveAvery]

Doubront, Andrew Miller, Brentz, and Cecchini?

I mean, I would take that deal every day of the week. But I'm guessing that Arizona is going to want to start with Middlebrooks and Doubront, and then go from there.

Edit: I should add that if it is Middlebrooks plus Doubront and extras, then the Sox would likely be getting more than just Upton from the Diamondbacks. I think there is a basis for a big deal if the report on what Arizona wants is true.

Edited by ScubaSteveAvery, 07 November 2012 - 05:02 PM.

[Laser Show]

I mean, I would take that deal every day of the week. But I'm guessing that Arizona is going to want to start with Middlebrooks and Doubront, and then go from there.

Edit: I should add that if it is Middlebrooks plus Doubront and extras, then the Sox would likely be getting more than just Upton from the Diamondbacks. I think there is a basis for a big deal if the report on what Arizona wants is true.

The first thing I thought of when Wombat got brought up as trade bait here was the link Koufax posted in the rebuild thread recently, linking to a column by Jim Bowden suggesting the Sox might pursue David Wright.

EDIT: Here it is:

Jim Bowden suggesting that the Sox may try to get David Wright. "The discussion by Alderson would have to start with young third-base prospect Will Middlebrooks and one of Boston's top starting pitching prospects, such as Allen Webster, who recently was acquired from the Dodgers, or Matt Barnes, the Red Sox’s first-round selection in 2011 out of the University of Connecticut."

Edited by Laser Show, 07 November 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[MakMan44]

They're actually listening on Bauer too. See that I would be hesitant about, I have no idea why'd they even listen on him right now

[TOleary25]

They're actually listening on Bauer too. See that I would be hesitant about, I have no idea why'd they even listen on him right now

I remember him and Montero having issues when Bauer was first called up. They couldn't get on the same page, and I think it was presumed Bauer was being stubborn. Seems like a very cocky guy, which isn't always the worst thing in the world for a starting pitcher. But stubbornness can be.

Edited by TOleary25, 07 November 2012 - 05:15 PM.

[dylanmarsh]

Nick Piecoro, the AZ Republic's Diamondbacks reporter, offers his insights into why Justin Upton could be traded: http://www.azcentral...kPiecoro/173635

[Sausage in Section 17]

How often do players of his caliber who have put up the kind of production he has (career 117 OPS+, individual seasons of 141 and 129) become available after their age 24 season? He'll be 25 years old heading into next year. He has shown he can be an upper echelon player in the league based on production and presumably the scouts see the tools and raw ability that made him a number 1 overall pick.

OK, but is 117 really that impressive? For a corner outfielder? And his high water mark of 141 doesn't crack the Top 10 for any of the last 25 years. By contrast, Nick Swisher is 118 for his career. He may not have Upton's (mythical) upside, but he wouldn't cost any of our best prospects. I am not advocating the Sox sign him, merely pointing out that equal production is likely available much more cheaply. And I agree that draining the farm would be the right move for the right player, I just don't believe Upton is that guy anymore, if he ever was.

When Upton came up to the majors, everyone spoke about him being a once in a generation talent. He's good, but he's not close to that. He hasn't really improved. He might still, but I think he's just as good a bet to stay around where he is. It's also curious and may not be applicable, but his brother hasn't exactly lived up to expectations either.

[Corsi]

Heyman:

there is much buzz about justin upton. execs think this time he really will be dealt. on no-trade list: nyy, bos, cle, cubs

https://twitter.com/...305649191813122

[SoxScout]

Rosenthal said that was last year and the teams have since changed.

[OttoC]

At present the Red Sox are looking for players at 1B, SS, RF, LF, and a starting pitcher. Does it makes sense to trade a player from one of the positions they have filled to fill a position they need to fill?

[ElcaballitoMVP]

If I can keep WMB and X, I'm in on Upton. Considering we have the #7 and 44 picks in the upcoming draft and the depth we've built up over the last few years, we can afford to put together a competetive package for a guy who has MVP talent and is entering the prime of his career. He's also under team control through 2015. He can be a guy who can help solidify the middle of your lineup.

I'd be offering: Barnes, Brentz, Cecchini and a SS prospect of their choosing (Iglesias, Marrero, Lin, Vinicio).

Losing Barnes would hurt, but he still needs to work on his changeup to be a front-line SP. My hope is that the team could find another promising arm to replace him early in the 2013 draft and be able to handle the loss in the meantime with guys like Rubby, Webster, Britton and Owens down on the farm. If there was a way to include Doubront in place of Barnes, I'd do that in a second, but I feel that by including Barnes, we'd get to keep guys like WMB and X out of any potential deal.

I could get behind a lineup that looked something like: Ellsbury, Pedroia, Upton, Ortiz, Napoli (or Morneau/Morales), WMB, Salty, Kalish, Iglesias

[Lowrielicious]

They're actually listening on Bauer too. See that I would be hesitant about, I have no idea why'd they even listen on him right now

He walks a LOT of hitters. Perhaps they are having real concerns over whether he will ever be able to learn enough control to be able to reach the potential of his actual "stuff" and so are looking to sell high.

[Scoops Bolling]

OK, but is 117 really that impressive? For a corner outfielder? And his high water mark of 141 doesn't crack the Top 10 for any of the last 25 years. By contrast, Nick Swisher is 118 for his career. He may not have Upton's (mythical) upside, but he wouldn't cost any of our best prospects. I am not advocating the Sox sign him, merely pointing out that equal production is likely available much more cheaply. And I agree that draining the farm would be the right move for the right player, I just don't believe Upton is that guy anymore, if he ever was.

When Upton came up to the majors, everyone spoke about him being a once in a generation talent. He's good, but he's not close to that. He hasn't really improved. He might still, but I think he's just as good a bet to stay around where he is. It's also curious and may not be applicable, but his brother hasn't exactly lived up to expectations either.

I agree with you. The Upton brothers are both good players, but neither has shown any indication that they will ever fulfill the substantial hype they entered the MLB with despite early success for both (BJ's 2007, JUpton's 2009 and 2011), and neither is worth the price they'll command. Maybe Justin Upton becomes a MVP type player...or maybe he turns into Ruben Sierra 2.0. I'd rather not pay a premium just for the possibility of the former.

[MakMan44]

He walks a LOT of hitters. Perhaps they are having real concerns over whether he will ever be able to learn enough control to be able to reach the potential of his actual "stuff" and so are looking to sell high.

That's my point, they're not actually. He looked really bad in his first trip up plus he was injured. Makes no sense to listen on him now, his trade value is so low

[Lowrielicious]

That's my point, they're not actually. He looked really bad in his first trip up plus he was injured. Makes no sense to listen on him now, his trade value is so low

After he went back down after his first trip to the bigs he didn't fare a lot better either. K/BB a touch under 2. Take out a couple of back-to-back starts in mid-August where he was electric (21Ks to 2 BBs) and his K/BB in his other 7 starts was 1.36 (right around the mark he posted in the majors).
There is still hype and flashes of brilliance, so perhaps they are thinking this IS the high point. Or at least testing the waters to see if anyone is willing to pay for the potential rather than the results so far.

[MakMan44]

After he went back down after his first trip to the bigs he didn't fare a lot better either. K/BB a touch under 2. Take out a couple of back-to-back starts in mid-August where he was electric (21Ks to 2 BBs) and his K/BB in his other 7 starts was 1.36 (right around the mark he posted in the majors).
There is still hype and flashes of brilliance, so perhaps they are thinking this IS the high point. Or at least testing the waters to see if anyone is willing to pay for the potential rather than the results so far.

Well as long as it isn't the Sox who overpay I guess I don't really care if someone does. Honestly though, if I'm Bauer it'd piss me off. Never much fun when you think someone is giving up on you so quickly

[ForceAtHome]

OK, but is 117 really that impressive? For a corner outfielder? And his high water mark of 141 doesn't crack the Top 10 for any of the last 25 years. By contrast, Nick Swisher is 118 for his career. He may not have Upton's (mythical) upside, but he wouldn't cost any of our best prospects. I am not advocating the Sox sign him, merely pointing out that equal production is likely available much more cheaply. And I agree that draining the farm would be the right move for the right player, I just don't believe Upton is that guy anymore, if he ever was.

I think a 117 OPS+ is pretty impressive for a guy with over 3,000 PA through his age 24 season. This includes stats from the time Upton cracked the bigs as a teenager and began a regular while just 20 years old. Just looking at his age 21-24 seasons, Upton's OPS+ jumps to 122. And it's probably reasonable to believe that his peak will come later than an age at which many guys are still in the minors, which means those numbers could be due to rise.

Swisher had put up 1 season worth of plate appearances (593) with a 102 OPS+ by the same point in his career. Since then, he has put up a 120 OPS+. I don't think they're remotely the same player. A young 20s Justin Upton may have put up the same production over a prime Swisher, but comparing an over-30 Swisher to a 25-year-old Upton going forward doesn't look favorable.

I think it's easy to overlook Upton because he's seemingly been around forever and still will only be 25 next season. For reference, last year in Upton's 5th full season, he was the same age as when Matt Holliday debuted.

I'm not advocating trading Bogaerts and completely emptying the system, but I think I'd listen on pretty any other players to a degree. Right now the Red Sox more than any time in the last decade need to be building around players that can help now but more importantly also help in a few years. There aren't going to be many better options than Justin Upton who is young, coming into his prime, and not exorbitantly expensive salary wise. As long as he isn't ridiculously expensive in trade chips, I'd want him in Boston.

[Bosox4416]

If this hasn't been seen yet

Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald reports that the Red Sox are expected to pursue a trade for Justin Upton.

Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reported earlier Wednesday that, despite previous comments from their owner to the contrary, the D'Backs will shop Upton this offseason. The Red Sox are on the outfielder's no-trade list, but Silverman's source says that will not keep Boston from going after him. The Rangers would also make sense as a trade partner, with Rosenthal speculating that they could deal Elvis Andrus for Upton.

http://www.bostonher...173115&srvc=rss

[Rough Carrigan]

I'm not all that sold on Justin Upton's bat. He looks like the new millenium Willie Davis; every other year's an off year.

But, the fielding bible plus minus system loves him. Individual years can be just luck. But here are Justin Upton's numbers the last four years:

2009 +17
2010 +16
2011 +29
2012 +13

Edited by Rough Carrigan, 07 November 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[RedOctober3829]

@brianmacp: Per @nickpiecoro, Kevin Towers said today that the Red Sox are not on Justin Upton's no-trade list.

https://twitter.com/...359508266258432


Brian MacPherson

@nickpiecoro: Towers said Upton's no-trade list includes four new teams from last season. Last year it was Yankees, Red Sox, Indians and Cubs.

https://twitter.com/...359199972331520

Edited by RedOctober3829, 07 November 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[Sausage in Section 17]

I'm not advocating trading Bogaerts and completely emptying the system, but I think I'd listen on pretty any other players to a degree. Right now the Red Sox more than any time in the last decade need to be building around players that can help now but more importantly also help in a few years. There aren't going to be many better options than Justin Upton who is young, coming into his prime, and not exorbitantly expensive salary wise. As long as he isn't ridiculously expensive in trade chips, I'd want him in Boston.

And I'm not saying he's a bad player. But at this point, he's on a 3 year/$38.5M contract, so in the hoped for scenario where he produces that value, he'll be back on the market at age 28 in the zone where (as we just saw with the Crawford contract) you hope to be able to step away from overpaying for past production. We'd be trading 6 (?) years of MLB control for each of the minor leaguers we give up for 3 years of Upton. So again, it's about the price, and the price tag attached to Upton has always been huge.

And what happens when/if he puts up another .785 OPS (this year's #) when he's making $14M 2 years from now?

But really, the Sox should only be looking at giving up value equivalent to having him be here 3 years. Even if he wins an MVP, would we want to sign him for what he'd then get on the open market at 28?

Edited by Sausage in Section 17, 07 November 2012 - 09:25 PM.

[Tyrone Biggums]

And I'm not saying he's a bad player. But at this point, he's on a 3 year/$38.5M contract, so in the hoped for scenario where he produces that value, he'll be back on the market at age 28 in the zone where (as we just saw with the Crawford contract) you hope to be able to step away from overpaying for past production. We'd be trading 6 (?) years of MLB control for each of the minor leaguers we give up for 3 years of Upton. So again, it's about the price, and the price tag attached to Upton has always been huge.

And what happens when/if he puts up another .785 OPS (this year's #) when he's making $14M 2 years from now?

But really, the Sox should only be looking at giving up value equivalent to having him be here 3 years. Even if he wins an MVP, would we want to sign him for what he'd then get on the open market at 28?

If you get three years of his 2011 production, I don't see why you wouldn't give him whatever he wants.

[Corsi]

The #dbacks are asking for third baseman or shortstop in return for Upton and #redsoxare out

https://twitter.com/...385169873793024

[TOleary25]

Here's Nightengale's article as well:

The Texas Rangers have expressed strong interest, according to an executive directly involved with the talks, but they have resisted the Diamondbacks' request for shortstops Elvis Andrus or Jurickson Profar. The executive spoke to USA TODAY Sports on condition of anonymity because talks are ongoing.

The Boston Red Sox also have shown interest, but according to a person with knowledge of Upton's preferences, the Red Sox are one of four teams on Upton's newly submitted no-trade list.

http://www.usatoday....eeting/1691009/

He says Red Sox are out in his tweet but the only reasoning he provides is that Boston is on Upton's no-trade list. There's other reports that say Sox aren't on the list, and regardless Towers mentioned that there have been discussions about Upton with teams on the no-trade list. If Nightengale's implying that Upton would block a trade to the Sox, then that's a different story.

Towers is probably holding out for either WMB or Xander right now. I wouldn't trade Xander for Upton straight up and there is no obvious replacement for WMB at 3rd in the minors or in free agency. Wright and Headley may be available but they'll take a good group of prospects to acquire them.

I don't really understand why a straight up deal for Andrus would make sense for the D'Backs. He's cost controlled for less years than Upton, I'm assuming something else would have to be included? Profar makes a lot of sense for them but I don't think the Rangers would move him for anything but a No 1 starter (a la Price).

Edited by TOleary25, 08 November 2012 - 09:17 AM.

[BobbyVsToiletSeat]

Here's Nightengale's article as well:



http://www.usatoday....eeting/1691009/

He says Red Sox are out in his tweet but the only reasoning he provides is that Boston is on Upton's no-trade list. There's other reports that say Sox aren't on the list, and regardless Towers mentioned that there have been discussions about Upton with teams on the no-trade list. If he's implying that Upton would block a trade to the Sox, then that's a different story.

Towers is probably holding out for either WMB or Xander right now. I wouldn't trade Xander for Upton straight up and there is no obvious replacement for WMB at 3rd in the minors or in free agency. Wright and Headley may be available but they'll take a good group of prospects to acquire them.

I don't really understand why a straight up deal for Andrus would make sense for the D'Backs. He's cost controlled for less years than Upton, I'm assuming something else would have to be included? Profar makes a lot of sense for them but I don't think the Rangers would move him for anything but a No 1 starter (a la Price).

Why would you trade Xander or WMB straight up for him let alone together? That's insane

Plus we have our outfielders already and the sooner the Sox realize it the better off we will all be. Linares, Ellsbury, Kalish...those are the three starters that we should have out there next year

Edited by BobbyVsToiletSeat, 08 November 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[Puffy]

https://twitter.com/...385169873793024

I don't quite get the third basemen thing - Matt Davidson is a top 100 prospect who just finished a successful year at AA and is essentially a ca. 2011/early 2012 version of Will Middlebrooks. It seems like SS is more of a critical area of need for Arizona. And maybe more pitching.

I wouldn't (as has been suggested here) trade 4 top 10 prospects for Upton, but I might do Doubront, Iglesias or Marrero, and maybe some of our relief pitching excess. Ultimately, though, it will come down to what Arizona wants, rather than what kind of package the Red Sox might be willing to put together.

[TOleary25]

Why would you trade Xander or WMB straight up for him let alone together? That's insane

Did you even read what I wrote? I said it's likely that Towers is holding out for one of the two in a trade for Upton, not that it was a good idea. And at no point did I say they would be traded together. I would definitely consider trading WMB for Upton straight up if there was an obvious solution at 3B, but there isn't.

[BobbyVsToiletSeat]

Did you even read what I wrote? I said it's likely that Towers is holding out for one of the two in a trade for Upton, not that it was a good idea. And at no point did I say they would be traded together. I would definitely consider trading WMB for Upton straight up if there was an obvious solution at 3B, but there isn't.

This is why I wouldn't part with WMB, 3rd base is too thin across the league. If you get a good 3B or SS that's huge. Outfielders are easy to find

[Trotsky]

Stop. Not young OF'ers that have excellent corner defense plus the potential and promise that Upton has (and already shown).
Kalish has sucked. Linares hasn't proven a thing beyond AA and is 3 years older than Upton and Ellsbury has been even more inconsistent.
Please stop gushing about the prospects and talent the Sox have.... it's ridiculous and frightening almost!

Edited by Trotsky, 08 November 2012 - 10:16 AM.

[BobbyVsToiletSeat]

Stop. Not young OF'ers that have excellent corner defense plus the potential and promise that Upton has (and already shown).
Kalish has sucked. Linares hasn't proven a thing beyond AA and is 3 years older than Upton and Ellsbury has been even more inconsistent.
Please stop gushing about the prospects and talent the Sox have.... it's ridiculous and frightening almost!

I'm sorry but I would rather have Linares or Kalish manning the outfield than trading Xander or WMB for a guy that we would only have under contract for 3 years. You're giving away 6 years of cost controlled talent to get an overhyped inconsistent outfielder

[SoxScout]

The Texas Rangers already have an All-Star shortstop, but were trying to grab Atlanta Braves shortstop Andrelton Simmons, two high-ranking club officials told USA TODAY Sports, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity due to negotiations.

The Rangers, who have All-Star Elvis Andrus at shortstop, tried to acquire Simmons simply to spin him off and trade him to the Arizona Diamondbacks for right fielder Justin Upton, a high-ranking official with the Rangers and Braves confirmed.

Yet, the Braves did not budge, and the Rangers refuse to move Andrus or prized prospect Jurickson Profar for Upton, leaving the Diamondbacks to look elsewhere for a trade partner.

Upton's no-trade clause blocks him to four teams that expressed interest in him, leaving perhaps the Tampa Bay Rays as the most likely trade partners, but only if they send one of their prized starters, such as David Price or James Shields, to Arizona.

http://www.usatoday....etings/1695585/

[knucklecup]

Why would you trade Xander or WMB straight up for him let alone together? That's insane

I would absolutely trade WMB for Upton. If that deal is on the table or some variation of it, you have to pull the trigger.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Reddick, Lowrie, and Bard would be a good offer. Ah well.

[Puffy]

http://www.usatoday....etings/1695585/

Yeah, it seems a third party would have to be involved for the Sox to be a good fit. I doubt they would move WMB and it seems like they are committed to Iglesias. Their preference would seem to be to deal prospects from the upper minors, including some of the top pitching (SPs and RPs), along with some high upside lottery tickets. I could see Saltalamacchia dealt to acquire a piece of the deal too. The Red Sox have so many needs on so many fronts, it is hard to imagine a situation where they won't be making complex, multiteam deals this offseason.

Speaking of Uptons, would the Red Sox have interest in BJ? They are said to have kicked the tires on Bourn - BJ is someone who could fill a short term OF need, but also be a fallback if Ellsbury is traded or departs after the season.