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Syracuse basketball 2012-2013: Its On You MCW


139 replies to this topic

#1 Otto

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

"First time in 26 years the Orange have had 3 players selected in the draft. I hope Kris Jo makes the C's roster.

What a year for Dion. He and & Irving could be a helluva backcourt in Cleveland. From team malcontent to BE 6th Man of the Year to the #4 pick in the NBA draft. This can only help the team's recruiting."


I thought Rossox's quote from the old thread was a great jumping off point for this one. Kris Joseph did his thing, Dion and Irving combined for 52 last night in a win, and recruiting is hot. Nice call, Rossox.

As for recruiting, Syracuse has landed four commitments in the past three weeks, including a top-10 player for the class of 2014, Chris McCullough (6"10 forward from Brewster Academy). The reports on McCullough agree that he's a bigtime player (lots of talk about his NBA prospects, including some one-and-done talk, but lets save that for another day ... or year). The 2013 class looks like this: Ron Patterson (6'3" guard from Brewster Academy), Tyler Ennis (6'3" pg from St. Benedict's), Chinoso Obokoh (6'10" center from Bishop Kearney), and BJ Johnson (6'7" forward from Lower Merion). They have room for one more and are close on a few, so lets see if this hot streak shakes one of these last few loose. Duke transfer Michael Giniije will be eligible next season as well. In the event MCW leaves after this year, Ennis is likely the starting PG and Gbinije and Patterson play real minutes right away.

Speaking of MCW, I think he's the key to this season. He was the fourth guard last year behind Scoop, Triche, and Dion, but he steps into the spotlight this year. He's got all the tools, this is his show to run on offense, and his length and instincts will be key on defense as well.

The starting 5 looks like this so far: MCW, Triche, CJ Fair, Coleman, and Christmas. The interesting development so far is up front, where Coleman has been playing a wing spot on defense with Christimas in the middle. Boeheim likes Christmas in the middle because he's the better shot-blocker, but the question has always been whether Coleman could cover the ground needed to defend the wing. Time will tell, but the bigtime freshman has come into the season leaner, looking quick, and possibly ready to handle that role. If not, they'll switch him with Christmas and put him in the middle.

The only true guard off the bench (Southerland will also play some 2 depending on lineups) will be Cooney. The RS freshman saw his first action the other night and made a couple of 3's. If he can be that sharp-shooter off the bench that would be huge, although Boeheim keeps stressing that he's more than just a shooter. We'll see - I'd take the sharpshooter for now. The guard position is thin with just three.

Southerland, Keita, and freshman Jerami Grant will round out the rotation. Keita has been making a big impact on defense in practice, so I'm excited to see him this year. I also think Southerland is in line for a big step up - his key is consistently making the 3, and I think its in his arsenal. Grant is a future star, I think, but he's not ready for much more than 6-8 minutes a night yet.

Season kicks off Friday night on the deck of the Midway, against preseason #20 San Diego State.

Any more sage predictions, Rossox?

Edit: changed "lean" to "leaner" re: Coleman. Keita is lean, Coleman got leaner. He's still a big man of course.

Edited by Otto, 06 November 2012 - 09:51 AM.


#2 Rossox

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:29 PM

Thanks, Otto. To answer your question - yes, I predict this Friday's game is pushed to Sunday. D'oh!

http://www.syracuse....t_river_default

Seriously, I also expect a huge leap from MCW this season. There could be some nice zone busters on this year's team with Cooney, Southerland and hopefully a consistent Triche. Anxious to see how much Christmas has developed. Heck, I'm just anxious for the season to start.

Last season in the Big East, boys, Giddy up!

#3 The Filthy One

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:14 AM

Thanks for starting this thread, Otto. Tough to draw much from that gimmick of a game today, but I think you can see the three guys who have to score for them to compete: Triche, MCW, and Fair (and not necessarily in that order). Southerland and Cooney can give them more when they aren't shooting into the wind and the sun, and Coleman will be more of an offensive force than his very brief appearance today showed.

Still nice to win an early game out of state against a ranked opponent, even if it was bizarre and frankly, pretty ugly to watch.

#4 LeftyTG

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:02 AM

Thanks for starting this thread, Otto. Tough to draw much from that gimmick of a game today, but I think you can see the three guys who have to score for them to compete: Triche, MCW, and Fair (and not necessarily in that order). Southerland and Cooney can give them more when they aren't shooting into the wind and the sun, and Coleman will be more of an offensive force than his very brief appearance today showed.

Still nice to win an early game out of state against a ranked opponent, even if it was bizarre and frankly, pretty ugly to watch.


I've never watched a game Syracuse won by 10+ and enjoyed less than the game yesterday. I hope this brief aircraft carrier phase ends this season. I don't think there is much anyone can glean from the game. Cooney, for instance, hardly played. Is that because Boeheim wanted to ride Triche/MCW and use Southerland up top on the zone, or because Cooney's biggest strength, outside shooting, was rendered useless in the elements? Did DC's lack of time point to his getting the Melo/Christmas freshman treatment, or was it simply that Boeheim knew outside shooting was impossible and the best offense was the guards taking the ball to the rim and DC would clog the lane?

I do feel a bit bad for SD St. Given the circumstances, Syracuse is the absolute worst team you could play. The zone, by design, forces teams to hit long jumpers. It was impossible to shoot, and given Syracuse's length on the back line, impossible to bring it inside.

#5 Rossox

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

Good road win tonight. At no point did I think the Orange were in trouble.

Still early, and the bigs still need some work, but this team could be scary. Good combo of talent, experience & role players.

What a night for Southerland.

Edited by Rossox, 30 November 2012 - 10:51 PM.


#6 LeftyTG

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

Good road win tonight. At no point did I think the Orange were in trouble.

Still early, and the bigs still need some work, but this team could be scary. Good combo of talent, experience & role players. I

What a night for Southerland.


agreed. This game was a good experience for the team, and they are still working out the kinks. The slew of ticky tack calls l think made it hard for them to know aggressive they could play, which contributed to some of the miscues I thought. Hopefully Cooney will get going eventually, as the obvious red flag for this team is guard depth right now.

It's been a joy watching Southerland mature as a player over the last 4 years. He's always had that feathery stroke, but he seems to have figured out the mental side of the game and is certainly more well rounded as a defender and rebounder. He's been a beast so far this year. Teams are going to run him off that 3 once conference play starts, and I'm curious if he'll be able to make them pay by putting it on the floor and attacking the rim.

#7 The Filthy One

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:04 PM

Michael Carter Williams is currently leading the NCAA in assists per game, is 2nd in steals per game, and is leading the team in rebounds per game. Insane.

#8 LeftyTG

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:22 PM

Michael Carter Williams is currently leading the NCAA in assists per game, is 2nd in steals per game, and is leading the team in rebounds per game. Insane.


It's a good thing they have Tyler Ennis coming in next year, as there is little chance of Carter Williams returning next year. He'll be a lottery pick.

#9 Otto

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

Indeed, Carter Williams has been amazing.

Lefty, I kept waiting for Arkansas to get out and defend Southerland too ... but he just kept taking them from further out. As to your point though, I agree he's not going to just catch and shoot all year. That said, I'm not sure putting the ball on the floor is his answer. He moves well without the ball though, and I think they'll design some stuff to free him for the 3 or going to the basket.

#10 BigRed07

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:17 PM

I'm a nervous about guard depth as I am not a believer in Cooney at all. I can't see him being able to play against real teams, but even if he IS able to, that's still thin in the backcourt. Last year it was Scoop, Triche, Waiters and MCW. Now it's basically just MCW and Triche with a question mark in Cooney.

It will be interesting to see what the crunch-time lineup will be. Will Boeheim trust Christmas or Coleman or would he go with Keita? I assume the rest of the lineup would be MCW, Triche, Southerland, and Fair.

#11 LeftyTG

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

I'm not worried about Cooney. It's clear he has been pressing, but I think he'll relax some and let his shot come to him. The second half last night was encouraging, as he finally hit back to back threes and then threw down a monster two handed jam in the face of a defender. It surprised me to see him flush it down like that. His athleticism is underrated. At the very least he plays pretty good defense at the top of the zone. Guard depth is certainly an issue, but except for injury or major foul trouble, I think they'll be ok. While they certainly had Scoop, Triche, Waiters, and MCW last year, MCW hardly played at all once conference play came and they were essentially a 3 guard rotation. The nice thing about last year was that they had a McDonald's AA to turn to in an emergency, whereas this year they really don't have a safety net.

Jerami Grant was a revelation last night. I was extremely impressed with his all around game and basketball IQ. You know how during CJ Fair's freshman year you could just tell the kid knew how to play? Grant has the same quality. He just has a nose for the ball and finds ways to chip in and contribute. Once he gets a little more strength and a little more familiarity with the zone he is going to be an absolute terror on defense. He grabbed some tough rebounds in traffic, caused turnovers on the press, knocked down a three, and even had a pretty no look pass to set up a Coleman dunk. He's going to be a good one.

As to the crunch time lineup, I agree with your lineup. I think the C will be based on match ups and what JB feels is needed. If shotblocking, Christmas, if they are playing a bruiser, maybe Coleman to bang, etc.

#12 LeftyTG

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

Indeed, Carter Williams has been amazing.

Lefty, I kept waiting for Arkansas to get out and defend Southerland too ... but he just kept taking them from further out. As to your point though, I agree he's not going to just catch and shoot all year. That said, I'm not sure putting the ball on the floor is his answer. He moves well without the ball though, and I think they'll design some stuff to free him for the 3 or going to the basket.


Fortunately, Syracuse has some experience with guys like this - Rautins for one - whose outside shot opponents keyed in on, but who were still able to get open. It'll be interesting to see how Southerland adjusts. Last night EMU had him marked at all times and were clearly gearing toward taking away any open 3's. Southerland forced several threes and his shot wasn't falling. He had one sweet move where he pump faked a three, took two dribbles in, and calmly flipped in a 6 footer. That's the shot he's going to need and the kind of shot Rautins was so good at. Opponents couldn't close too hard on Rautins because he was so good at pump faking and knocking down an open mid range jumper (not that 6 feet is mid range, but you get my point).

What I found interesting last night is the respect EMU gave to Cooney. He was getting the Southerland treatment where the EMU guys were lunging at him any time he gave even a hint of squaring up. Clearly Cooney, as a redshirt freshman who has struggled with his shot so far this year, hasn't earned that respect in games thus far. I found it unusual and interesting because EMU is coached by former Syracuse assistant Rob Murphy. While he left the program the same time Cooney arrived, he would know Cooney's skills and clearly instructed his team to respect Cooney's shot. That makes me feel even better about Cooney.

#13 LeftyTG

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

Here's that dunk by Cooney. Not a top 10 dunk of all time or anything, but it shows off some of his surprising athleticism.



#14 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:15 PM

What Jerami Grant showed against EMU suggests more upside than either Fair or Christmas. I think he'll be taking away minutes from both, and maybe Coleman too if Christmas can handle center.

It's a good problem to have, and Jimmy B's a master at managing minutes. Sentimentally, I'd hate to see the junior Fair sidelined. Love his hustle, rebounding instincts and overall semi-overachievement the last two seasons. Definitely do not love Christmas' apparent lack of hustle or at least concentration lapses, but he's looked better this year and if it clicks for him, you've gotta figure he could be semi-special. Coleman is a house impossible to clear off the boards. He's certainly not polished -- but not that raw for a frosh.

If we see more of that Jerami Grant, who loses time?

Re: Cooney. Agree he'll be okay in time. Jimmy B's been up in his shit alot. Clearly tough love b/c Jimmy knows he's needed this year and vital for next.

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 05 December 2012 - 03:24 PM.


#15 LeftyTG

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:30 PM

What Jerami Grant showed against EMU suggests more upside than either Fair or Christmas. I think he'll be taking away minutes from both, and maybe Coleman too if Christmas can handle center.

It's a good problem to have, and Jimmy B's a master at managing minutes. Sentimentally, I'd hate to see the junior Fair sidelined. Love his hustle, rebounding instincts and overall semi-overachievement the last two seasons. Definitely do not love Christmas' apparent lack of hustle or at least concentration lapses, but he's looked better this year and if it clicks for him, you've gotta figure he could be semi-special. Coleman is a house impossible to clear off the boards. He's certainly not polished -- but not that raw for a frosh.

If we see more of that Jerami Grant, who loses time?

Re: Cooney. Agree he'll be okay in time. Jimmy B's been up in his shit alot. Clearly tough love b/c Jimmy knows he's needed this year and vital for next.


Grant isn't going to steal any minutes from Fair. He had a nice game against EMU and has loads of potential going forward, but he is still a freshman and who isn't strong enough to bang in the Big East and has an inconsistent shot. Grant has a lot of development ahead of him offensively, as even in high school he wasn't a particularly prolific scorer. I'm bullish on the player Grant will become, but for this year he's an off the bench energy guy, and I think he'll play that role well.

#16 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:49 PM

That's a good read on Grant. Might be more of a tug-o-minutes next year with Grant and Christmas. Though Jimmy seems to enjoy the A squad/B squad depth and its luxury of "6 or 7 starters," so there's likely acceptable amounts of minutes for everyone.

Liked seeing relentless full-court pressing. I recall (Jimmy-hating wiener boy) Doug Gottlieb getting on Cuse for underutilizing its depth last year in not pressing more, and though Gottlieb was roundly destroyed by even his on-air colleagues as harboring a grudge, I can't say I entirely disagreed on the idea of pressing when you've got 8-or-9-player kinda depth plus athleticism.

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 05 December 2012 - 04:51 PM.


#17 LeftyTG

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

That's a good read on Grant. Might be more of a tug-o-minutes next year with Grant and Christmas. Though Jimmy seems to enjoy the A squad/B squad depth and its luxury of "6 or 7 starters," so there's likely acceptable amounts of minutes for everyone.

Liked seeing relentless full-court pressing. I recall (Jimmy-hating wiener boy) Doug Gottlieb getting on Cuse for underutilizing its depth last year in not pressing more, and though Gottlieb was roundly destroyed by even his on-air colleagues as harboring a grudge, I can't say I entirely disagreed on the idea of pressing when you've got 8-or-9-player kinda depth plus athleticism.


The problem with pressing, for Syracuse, is that it is hard to transition from a full court press back into the 2-3 zone. You can do some sort of token zone pressure full court and then drop back into the zone if you don't turn the team over quickly, but the kind of aggressive full court pressure speeds the other team up and makes it hard for the Syracuse players to get organized in the zone. It worked against EMU because EMU had a freshman point guard and no other ball handlers on the team. It won't work as well against better teams with more skilled ball handlers. The press works well as a change of pace, and I believe Boeheim uses it as such strategically. I think the days of pressing most of the game are gone, across all of college basketball. Even Pitino doesn't press the same way he used to in the 90's with those Kentucky teams. There are just too many quick, skilled athletes who can handle the ball at the higher levels of D-1 basketball.

#18 Otto

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

Agreed, Lefty. That's definitely the key issue. Another (less important) reason that regularly employing the press isn't a great option for Syracuse is that the guards you want at the top of the 2-3 zone (length, height) aren't necessarily the type who thrive in a press. Carter-WIlliams is 6'6" and Triche is 6'4", for example. You get much more out of them settled at the top of a 2-3 zone, disrupting passes and covering space with their length, rather than chasing around 6'0" Peyton Siva or 6'0" Shabazz Napier at the other end after an in-bounds.

#19 LeftyTG

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

Agreed, Lefty. That's definitely the key issue. Another (less important) reason that regularly employing the press isn't a great option for Syracuse is that the guards you want at the top of the 2-3 zone (length, height) aren't necessarily the type who thrive in a press. Carter-WIlliams is 6'6" and Triche is 6'4", for example. You get much more out of them settled at the top of a 2-3 zone, disrupting passes and covering space with their length, rather than chasing around 6'0" Peyton Siva or 6'0" Shabazz Napier at the other end after an in-bounds.

excellent point, agreed. I do like it when it is used as a change of pace. Syracuse can unleash it in short bursts and catch the other team off guard and sometimes pick up a few easy buckets, especially when Syracuse has a shot blocker in the mold of Melo or, my personal favorite, Jeremy McNeil (I swear it was the only thing he did consistently well, but man that guy could defend a 2 on 1 fastbreak and somehow end up with a block). If nothing else, it makes the players have to play with more energy and snap them out of passivity.

#20 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

I feel like this thread should at least get one post per game. (By the way, Lefty and Otto providing some hoops wisdom. Good on ya. Happy to learn.)

Vs. Long Beach State didn't tell us much. More of the usual, but some more quality baby-stepping: Cooney drilled a couple 3's and Christmas had a few moments.

Honestly, the best thing about that game might have been that Long Beach State's uniforms say "The Beach"

#21 LeftyTG

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

I feel like this thread should at least get one post per game. (By the way, Lefty and Otto providing some hoops wisdom. Good on ya. Happy to learn.)

Vs. Long Beach State didn't tell us much. More of the usual, but some more quality baby-stepping: Cooney drilled a couple 3's and Christmas had a few moments.

Honestly, the best thing about that game might have been that Long Beach State's uniforms say "The Beach"


I agree, Long Beach State didn't exactly reveal a ton about the team. There were a few observations I gleaned.

- Southerland isn't handling this extra defensive attention well. His defender (sometimes two) close out hard and a guy picks him up early so he hasn't been getting those lagging behind the play open 3's. Southerland hasn't really shown he's the kind of guy who can run off a few picks, catch, and shoot, like Rautins was so good at. He's more or less been a spot up shooter who excels off the open looks that come when a teammate penetrates and kicks. I'm hoping Southerland branches out more, as I think he's capable of it. On the bright side, Southerland has done a decent job of not overly forcing his shot and has exploited the defensive attention with some passing. I think there's more room to grow here and think Syracuse can really make teams pay for guarding Southerland so closely.

- The tv cameras did a good job of picking up Boeheim yelling at Grant to drive the ball after Grant airballed an open 3. Several minutes later, Grant found himself wide open again on the wing, but this time he drove and put up an impressive dunk. I thought it was notable in that 1) Grant really covered that distance quickly - he's sneaky quick and 2) it illustrated how coachable Grant is. He immediately applied what Boeheim was exhorting him to do.

- Long Beach St wasn't all that impressive of a team, but their center was a transfer from West Virginia and a ESPN 100 high school player. He put up 20 in the game. I'm not hugely concerned yet, but in my mind it is still a somewhat open question of how the team's interior defense will be against a high quality post player.

I'm hoping to see Syracuse make a concerted effort to get Coleman and Christmas the ball on the block tonight against Monmouth. They are a very small team and I'd like to see these two get some more touches and get more involved in the offense. Syracuse always plays best when they have a guy on the block who can convert in the post. It opens up the perimeter shot and makes it easier for guards to slash to the basket on kickout passes. I think both Coleman and Christmas possess the tools and ability to develop into that guy, and I'd love to see more game opportunities for them to hone their skills.

#22 Doooweeeey!

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

898 wins for Boeheim.
Five shy of #2 All Time (NCAA D-1 wins, passing Knight) and next year will go head-to-head with #1 (K) in the same league.
Remarkable.

Edited by Doooweeeey!, 08 December 2012 - 11:39 PM.


#23 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:59 PM

Again, hard to draw conclusions against a JV squad like Monmouth. Not sure we saw Lefty's wish of Christmas and Coleman excelling, beyond their natural height dominance. Alley-oop proficiency not quite there either. Guess we were spoiled with the perfect lobs of Jardine.

Very good to see Cooney come up to speed.

#24 Doooweeeey!

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:07 PM

Yeah, the above-the-rim game always comes out in November and December. Fun to watch, but misleading. I look forward to the game on the floor come league play...

#25 BigRed07

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:55 PM

I can't believe this story ended up having legs and being true after all the denials and "misunderstandings." I'm struggling to understand why he would do something like this--just to prove that he could? So stupid.

#26 Dernells Casket n Flagon

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

Not enough Christmas for Syracuse.

Temple not good for Christmas.

#27 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:13 PM

Didn't see the game. I did catch the last 5 minutes.

Jimmy is a teacher. Watchng him on the sidelines, I was comforted. A teacher of skills, of motivation. A loss at this point in the season might be a very good thing. Or, in the mind of Boeheim, I'm guessing this loss is not really a loss. It's, like, 3/5 of a loss considering the benefits of now having the opportunity to slap (figuratively) your guys across the face and head off the cocky that would certainly come with more wins and prolonged top-5-ness.

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 23 December 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#28 The Filthy One

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

That felt like a game a mid-90s Syracuse team would have played: poor outside shooting, atrocious free-throw attempts, and lax rebounding. Credit to Temple for making every nearly free throw down the stretch, but if Michael Carter Williams plays just a mediocre game instead of an absolute shitshow, then Syracuse wins by 8. He looked out of control all second half, and when he tried to take the game over, it exposed his weeknesses as a shooter. It's not all on him, as Christmas played like ass, Southerland couldn't get a shot off, and Triche mostly failed to assert himself (until the final minute or two). Ugly game.

But it's early in the year, and they'll bounce back.

#29 Clears Cleaver


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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

Today was my first time seeing mcw. Yuck. Awful decisions all game. Incredibly immature on the court. Couldn't make anything. Dumb fouls. I'm sure this was his worst game as a collegian.

He's incredible athlete and very young, but I would want Triche leading team. He was a non factor today.

The reason they lost was as much the rebounding as much as the awful ft shooting and mediocre refs

#30 StuckOnYouk

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:56 PM

To be fair to MCW, it couldn't have helped him to have to hear Temple fans chant "Lord & Taylor" everytime he went to the line. Shoplifting can be a b*tch.

Edited by StuckOnYouk, 22 December 2012 - 10:57 PM.


#31 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

I've always disliked the tradition of standing-and-clapping until the first field goal, each half.

Tonight against Alcorn State the fans stood until 11:20 of the second half, through like three full time-outs no less.

Yeah, probably not a big deal, and the players probably hardly pay attention. But I've always thought it added little (some enthusiasm) but had the potential to work negatively whenever the team comes out cold (growing anxiety). It's just inherently an idea with downside. Never liked it. Probably stuck with it.

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 29 December 2012 - 11:48 PM.


#32 Rossox

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:18 AM

Anyone else going down to the Dunk tonight?

#33 Nuf Ced


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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:04 AM

They survived a brutal night from Triche and some unusually cold shooting from Southerland to beat Providence last night.

I'm sure Boeheim endeared himself to more people at Clemson with his post-game comments last night:

Providence also offers a sense of familiarity to Boeheim. He mentioned two restaurants; Siena and Capriccio’s in his post-game press conference.

“Every one of these games is a little bit of sadness for me,’’ Boeheim said. “I know where all the good restaurants are now. Now I got to go down to Clemson, South Carolina. I’m sure there’s a couple Denny’s down there. They’ll like me a lot now in Clemson. I like to make friends before I get down there.


http://www.syracuse....m_reminisc.html

#34 Rossox

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

And so it begins. Southerland out for eligibility reasons.

http://www.9wsyr.com...uPn9RttLyg.cspx

#35 Williams Head Case

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

Syracuse's APR was 936 last year and below 930 is tournament ban level... sooooo...

#36 Clears Cleaver


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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:07 PM

the whole program is being investigated for academic fraud? did I hear that right?

Someone told me that Syracuse lost a scholarship fr APR already and Boeheim games the system by having extra walk-ons to help with APR-related scores. I have no idea how that would work but I'm sure it happens everywhere if true. Like how does UK keep APR up when half their leave after a year and the other half after two years?

#37 LeftyTG

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:54 AM

the whole program is being investigated for academic fraud? did I hear that right?

Someone told me that Syracuse lost a scholarship fr APR already and Boeheim games the system by having extra walk-ons to help with APR-related scores. I have no idea how that would work but I'm sure it happens everywhere if true. Like how does UK keep APR up when half their leave after a year and the other half after two years?


APR only relates to scholarship players. Each scholarship has two points, and a point is earned when 1) player stays in school and 2) player is eligible. You take the number of points earned by a team, divide by the number of points possible, and multiply by 1000.

Syracuse has rolled over some unused scholarships to upper classman walk-ons. This practice has existed for as long as scholarship limits have been in place. I also have no doubt that these former walk-ons placed on scholarship happen to be students who will help the APR score. Whether one calls that gaming the system depends on one's level of cynicism I suppose.

I have no idea what to make of this. Like most any fan of a high D-1 sports program, I imagine, I'm not naive enough to believe all of these guys embody student athletes in the purest form of the expression. I had a former co-worker who went to Syracuse and was an athletic department tutor and said claimed to have written papers for both Carmelo Anthony and Gerry McNamara. I have no way of confirming if she was telling the truth, but I certainly wouldn't doubt something like that happened, just like how all the stuff with UNC didn't surprise me. Major D-1 athletics exists in a weird space between professional and amateur and I think most fans either make their peace with that or just decide to not think much about it.

The biggest mystery is Kentucky. I have absolutely no idea how they are able to keep doing what they're doing. There is simply no way that all these one and done players are staying in school during the spring semester and taking/studying for/passing classes while in the midst of preparing for the draft, knowing they are soon to be millionaires. Part of that speaks to how dumb the APR is, of course, but it also shows just how far in the tank the entire University is in propping up the basketball program. In a world where Jim Tressel gets hit with a show cause penalty for lying about some tattoos, Calipari is free to coach after leaving behind recruiting violations and vacated wins at both UMass and Memphis. But everyone knows the NCAA is a joke, so pointing out inconsistency and hypocrisy isn't particularly compelling here.

#38 bosox4283

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:08 PM

Does anyone have a streaming link to the game? Thanks!

#39 bsj


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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

Big win.

#40 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:02 AM

The biggest mystery is Kentucky. I have absolutely no idea how they are able to keep doing what they're doing. There is simply no way that all these one and done players are staying in school during the spring semester and taking/studying for/passing classes while in the midst of preparing for the draft, knowing they are soon to be millionaires. Part of that speaks to how dumb the APR is, of course, but it also shows just how far in the tank the entire University is in propping up the basketball program. In a world where Jim Tressel gets hit with a show cause penalty for lying about some tattoos, Calipari is free to coach after leaving behind recruiting violations and vacated wins at both UMass and Memphis. But everyone knows the NCAA is a joke, so pointing out inconsistency and hypocrisy isn't particularly compelling here.


First of all, enjoyable win. Triche lights out, fantastic. Today at Louisville, he might've caught some NBA attention. MCW, love that he threw the ball away etc early but still was confident enough to close. And CJ Fair, you gotta love a college guy who just never does anything wrong. They exist, I think especially in college basketball (or at least that's where they're very noticeable to the eye). Guys who just never over-reach. Never fuck up. Always in control. Mike Dunleavy was a guy like that years ago, and got overdrafted for it. Fair is our guy like that. The guy does tons right and almost nothing wrong ever.

Oh, the quoted above. Lefty, thanks for the info as always. Just to clarify, wouldn't the Kentucky one-and-done guy not be concerned about his spring semester anything? I've always assumed those jokers just passed 9 or 12 credits in the fall and then were cleared for hoops season. After which, whatever.

Unless, as is the topic at hand, those spring grades go toward some accounting of the team's APR in some way. That would be interesting. If the GPA of spring semester NBA-bail guys counted somehow toward the track record of the program. It should.

#41 LeftyTG

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

First of all, enjoyable win. Triche lights out, fantastic. Today at Louisville, he might've caught some NBA attention. MCW, love that he threw the ball away etc early but still was confident enough to close. And CJ Fair, you gotta love a college guy who just never does anything wrong. They exist, I think especially in college basketball (or at least that's where they're very noticeable to the eye). Guys who just never over-reach. Never fuck up. Always in control. Mike Dunleavy was a guy like that years ago, and got overdrafted for it. Fair is our guy like that. The guy does tons right and almost nothing wrong ever.

Oh, the quoted above. Lefty, thanks for the info as always. Just to clarify, wouldn't the Kentucky one-and-done guy not be concerned about his spring semester anything? I've always assumed those jokers just passed 9 or 12 credits in the fall and then were cleared for hoops season. After which, whatever.

Unless, as is the topic at hand, those spring grades go toward some accounting of the team's APR in some way. That would be interesting. If the GPA of spring semester NBA-bail guys counted somehow toward the track record of the program. It should.

Nice win. I'll be honest and didn't think there was any way they'd win. Even now, looking back, I don't think Syracuse played particularly well. Triche was awesome for the most part, but the rest of the team mostly grinded and survived, making plays when needed. JB made a nice adjustment when he had Triche bring the ball up. MCW just looked lost out there for large stretches, though he was (obviously) fantastic at the end (missed foul shots notwithstanding). I'm left wondering if perhaps Louisville is a bit overrated. I guess time will tell.

Jerami Grant was impressive. You can tell he has NBA bloodlines and you can especially tell he grew up playing against his 6'10" dad, as usually freshmen bigs struggle because they are used to always being the biggest and most athletic guy in high school. Grant got to play against an NBA power forward growing up. His shooting has improved a ton as the year has gone on and he has that high motor and basketball IQ that makes for winning teams. He's going to be a monster next year once he adds some more strength.

Regarding the APR - if a guy leaves early for the NBA, the team loses a point. If the guy leaves while still in good academic standing, the team gets the second point. If the guy basically bails on school and starts training full time for draft workouts, and doesn't take finals (thus not leaving in good academic standing), the team loses both APR points. Wes Johnson, notably, helped Syracuse out when he declared early but actually kept attending class and took finals, leaving in good standing. Fab Melo, not so much.

Reading between the lines, unless you actually believe the Davis', Kidd-Gilchrist's, Cousins' John Wall's of the world are staying in school, going to class, and taking finals between draft prep workouts, then the only way Kentucky is pulling off a qualifying APR score is having these guys "take" final exams and fudging them.

None of this, of course, speaks to how silly the APR is with regard to players leaving early to be NBA lottery picks. Heck, it is acting against their rational self interest to go to class when they know in a matter of weeks they will be multi-millionaires. Their focus absolutely should be on maximizing their draft position.

#42 bosox4283

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

Does anyone know why the coaches are wearing sneakers with their suits?



#43 RedOctober3829


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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

Does anyone know why the coaches are wearing sneakers with their suits?

Coaches vs. Cancer fund-raiser.  Most coaching staffs will be wearing sneakers this weekend.



#44 StuckOnYouk

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

after what happened to UConn, It would take a team with a lot of incredible f*ck ups for a major program to get bounced from the postseason due to APR issues. The NCAA created a new rule, (punishing UConn twice for the same offense by the way) and now everyone is fully aware of the all the rules....and they will do all the work-arounds they have to make sure their "student athletes" don't cost them a postseason. I mean hell if Kentucky can get away with it every single year, I would think anyone can.

 

As for the idea of rolling over unused scholarships to upper classmen walk-ons to maintain the APR numbers, i think that's genius. Can't blame Cuse for that, it's smart. Until the NCAA sees enough teams doing this I would imagine they will just ignore it unless it gets out of hand...if the NCAA even cares. Seems they have their own issues right now, like botching a slam-dunk case against the U.



#45 RedOctober3829


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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

Why in God's name did Syracuse not foul Villanova before a 3-pt attempt?  It's idiotic.



#46 Rossox

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

The 3 straight unsuccessful pick and rolls w/ Coleman at the end of regulation were killers. Why in God's name didn't they get the ball in Triche's hands the last 3 minutes of reg? He had the hot hand.

Grant is stepping up. I guess that's the silver lining w/ Southerland being out.

Good week for Nova.

#47 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

Cuse was overdue for a second loss. But maddeningly dreadful play by MCW down the stretch. Falling-down turnovers, missed free throws. He was being talked up as a lottery pick a month ago. Don't suppose he's cooling enough to stay for a junior year. Would ease the transition to Tyler Ennis at the point. Wishful thinking.


Edited by LeoCarrillo, 26 January 2013 - 02:08 PM.


#48 cumicon

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

Did anyone else have a problem with Boehiem starting to kill clock with 3:30 left in regulation and only a 4 point lead?  I think you need to get a good shot rather than start the play with 10 seconds left and finding yourself stuck with a contested look.



#49 Rossox

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:51 PM

Coleman out 4 weeks due to knee surgery.

 

http://www.syracuse....t_river_default

 

Team depth is becoming a problem. Yeah, Coleman hasn't been doing much, but this team now only has two players coming off the bench in Cooney and Keita.  Not good.  I guess it's officially Jerami Grant time now.



#50 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

I like more Grant. But somehow he's got that Jimmy B "two-and-screw" feeling about him, like Waiters and MCW.

 

Now he'll just be good sooner. Yay?


Edited by LeoCarrillo, 28 January 2013 - 09:21 PM.




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