233 replies to this topic

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Ainge continues with his crush on Redick...

David Baumann @DavidBaumann33
As Feb. 21 #NBA trade deadline looms, sources tell me the Boston Celtics covet Orlando Magic SG J.J. Redick.

The Celtics could definitely use another 3 point shooter. They're near the bottom of the league in 3 pointers made and at the top of the league in long 2s. Hard to have an efficient offense that way, especially with a primary ballhandler who is afraid of the free throw line.

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 19 January 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[lars10]

http://www.boston.co...eCcL/story.html

I thought this was pretty interesting...does Doc get fined for this?



“Of course he was fouled, there’s no doubt about that,” Rivers said. “And I also thought, if you watched it, Rondo absolutely called a timeout. It’s clear. He was literally an inch away from Marc Davis’s face and did it twice and then you could see Sean Corbin’s hand go up for a jump ball.

“It was clear, in my opinion, he was fouled, No. 1, and No. 2, we got the timeout and it wasn’t called.

“If you watch it, [Davis] couldn’t see the play because Rondo was in his face. Maybe he was looking around. Maybe that happened, honestly, because their job is to look at the play.”
I agree with Doc's impression of Davis either being against the C's in some way or simply incompetent.

[dolomite133]

The Celtics could definitely use another 3 point shooter. They're near the bottom of the league in 3 pointers made and at the top of the league in long 2s. Hard to have an efficient offense that way, especially with a primary ballhandler who is afraid of the free throw line.

Does Baby come back in the deal as well?

[Hee-Seop's Fable]

Interesting tid-bit on Celtics Courtside (weekly show on Comcast) DIckerson interviewed Doc, and Doc says he decided during that miserable West coast trip that he was going to forgo rest for a while and practice the whole team hard every day to try to address their problems and force them to adjust to the demands of the NBA grind. So combined with the return of Bradley, that's shown results in their seven game winning streak, but very likely also in how flat they played against New Orleans and Chicago. Knowing Doc has sacrificed a bit of the short term right now for the long term best interests of the team. I think we can all live with that.

[Koufax]

Doc after last night's game:

“I don’t think the guys are honest with each other. I just don’t think we have committed to being a good basketball team. I think this team wants everything easy. They want the easy way out. They want to win easy. I told them, the only way you’re going to win easy is you’re gonna have to play hard. The harder you play the easier the games become. We’re taking [that] approach.”

And then Rivers threatened to shake up his roster.


“I gotta either find the right combination, the right guys or we’re going to get some guys out of here,” he said. “It’s the bottom line, because this group right now, they’re not playing right and it’s in them to play right but right now they haven’t been because I’m not getting to them or they’re not getting to each other. Either we’ve got to do that or we’ve got to make changes. I’m saying if we don’t get it right we may [make changes].’’

[The Legendary WOTR]

Lucky the Celtics didn't trade for Varejao. He's out for the season with a blood clot
in his lungs...

[CreightonGubanich]

Doc after last night's game:

“I don’t think the guys are honest with each other. I just don’t think we have committed to being a good basketball team. I think this team wants everything easy. They want the easy way out. They want to win easy. I told them, the only way you’re going to win easy is you’re gonna have to play hard. The harder you play the easier the games become. We’re taking [that] approach.”

And then Rivers threatened to shake up his roster.


“I gotta either find the right combination, the right guys or we’re going to get some guys out of here,” he said. “It’s the bottom line, because this group right now, they’re not playing right and it’s in them to play right but right now they haven’t been because I’m not getting to them or they’re not getting to each other. Either we’ve got to do that or we’ve got to make changes. I’m saying if we don’t get it right we may [make changes].’’

Strange as it might sound, this was really encouraging to me. I don't think Doc is the type to lay into his team like that unless he thought the problem was strictly an effort one. In other words, if he thought Pierce, Terry and KG had just lost a step and the C's were no longer capable of contending for a title, you wouldn't see outbursts like this. This gives me hope that at least Rivers thinks the problems are correctable with a change in effort, attitude, or roster construction.

[bosox188]

Just posted this in the game thread, but it's pretty relevant to the current discussion here:

@Avery_Bradley

Nobody will score 40 on my unless they take 40 shots

Looks like Bradley's not happy with Rondo's defensive effort.


Edit:

For the record Bradley just deleted the tweet and then tweeted "No shots at anybody. It's confidence."

Edited by bosox188, 22 January 2013 - 10:25 PM.

[Nick Kaufman]

Ok, looking at per possession defensive and offensive stats.... We re 8th in defense which a is a drop from last year and 20th in offense. Offense was supposed to be better.

You know who can play better? Bradley. He's shooting 40% and he's not scoring nearly as much as he did during his hot streak last year. Obviously, it's still early.

Also, I am guessing the bench can do better.

To me it boils down to this. The players you want to trade won't return value either for getting it done this year or for rebuilding. The players you can trade, you don't want to, because they are the future. But you can play around the edges so as to get more from role players and improve chemistry by removing negative players. I am also going to guess that a lot of people's bad play is the customary drop off that happens the year after you signed a contract.

[fairlee76]

To my eyes the guys that have killed them during this recent stretch are Pierce, Green, and Terry. This team is not going to win many games when PP shoots 31 percent as he has during this recent 4 game slide. Green is playing tentative again - so many times last night he wandered around the perimeter. He needs to be in attack mode far more often - not sure this is ever going to click for him. Not sure what is going on with Terry. His attitude seems great, his jumper is way off. After 20 games I was hopeful it was a matter of him getting comfortable. Not sure that hope holds after 41 games.

And I am fully on board with acquiring Pau and riding out the next two years. This team still needs rebounding and post scoring help. I continue to be struck by how few easy baskets they score relative to the opposition.

[knucklecup]

Just posted this in the game thread, but it's pretty relevant to the current discussion here:

@Avery_Bradley

[/size]

Looks like Bradley's not happy with Rondo's defensive effort.


Edit:

For the record Bradley just deleted the tweet and then tweeted "No shots at anybody. It's confidence."

Why does that show that Bradley is not happy with Rondo?

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Why does that show that Bradley is not happy with Rondo?

 

Because he tweeted it 10 minutes after Kyrie Irving scored 40 on Rondo. 

[Plantier's Fasciitis]

I just got around to watching last night's game, and can't help but wonder...is it just the way you are forced to coach in the NBA that you stick with your starters who have nothing left? And this comes from Doc, who is considered a good coach and is respected. Particularly in light of how the bench played in the 1st half, dominating and playing with energy, what harm is there in pulling some starters who have nothing left? Do you risk losing them for the future?

 

Primarily referring to Pierce and Rondo. Pierce is very good at many things. He sucks at isolation at end of periods, I think we all know that. He also sucks when he is on the floor too many consecutive minutes. A few games back he entered the game at start of 4th, and as expected had nothing left by the end.

 

Rondo is also very good at many things. He can take over a game unlike many others, seemingly at will. He also infuriates fans (and apparently his coach) with periods of apathy and less energy, as well as by slowing down and not pushing the tempo. They built a huge lead, mainly with tough defense, crappy Atlanta shooting, and pushing the ball in transition. Rondo seemingly needs the ball in his hands too much of the time, slowing things down, and limiting teammate's involvement.

 

I guess I am more of a fan of the college game; bust your ass during your time on the floor, sub in and out often. I hate the "pull the starters late in 1st, back in partway through 2nd" mentality of the NBA.

[Koufax]

Your point is particularly apt for this team, which is overloaded with older players but which has some energy available off the bench -- players who don't suck. like Barbosa.

 

Speaking of which, what's up with Chris Wilcox?  Apparently he is good to go physically but was a DNP - Coach's Decision last night.  Surely he could have run up and down the floor some in the second overtime when the rest of the team was gassed.

[Plantier's Fasciitis]

He did go with Lee in OT, keeping Bass on the bench where he belongs. I am old enough to slightly remember the Havlicek and Cowens days, and great memories of the 80s teams. I love the way they were grabbing rebounds and pushing in the 2nd quarter. Long passes upcourt, because there wasn't a ball-dominating PG like Rondo. I was on the Rondo bandwagon very early in his career, but I dread having your PG be your best player (which he is now in my opinion), because it leads to no ball movement.

[cardiacs]

The plus/minus of the bench has been much better than the starters lately... I think some creative substitutions are in order henceforth. Sully still deserves a start even though he's faded during the losing streak... Lee has been coming around as well and should see more minutes. What's the harm of taking 5 minutes from all the starters and sharing them with some fresh legs?

[Plantier's Fasciitis]

The plus/minus of the bench has been much better than the starters lately... I think some creative substitutions are in order henceforth. Sully still deserves a start even though he's faded during the losing streak... Lee has been coming around as well and should see more minutes. What's the harm of taking 5 minutes from all the starters and sharing them with some fresh legs?

I strongly agree with your last sentence. I just don't have any sense of how important it is to these players that they have a set role and consistent minutes. It's talked about a lot in sports, baseball bullpen for example, about how important that is. The NBA seems to be a league where players have more power and security than coaches, so I'm guessing Doc has his hands somewhat tied. I would love to see him pull Rondo when he is screaming at him to push the ball, and Rondo ignores him.

[dolomite133]

If you were to set the odds for the Celtics winning the championship this season, where would you place them in relation to other teams in the East? In the league?

[dolomite133]

BTW is it unusual/alarming that Rondo is undergoing an MRI for a hyperextended right knee? Could the timing, approaching the trade deadline, prevent us from making a deal?

[dolomite133]

Guess it was unusual and alarming. I really really hope the Celtics don't make a half-assed run over the second half and end up with a middle of the first round pick. That would be a franchise killer. With Rondo out, the time to get a low-ish lottery pick is now. We need to get some luck like the 1997 Spurs and draft a building lock for the future. As has been pointed out numerous times elsewhere here, trading for a star or signing a star as a free agent will be extremely difficult for the immediate future.

[dhellers]

Guess it was unusual and alarming. I really really hope the Celtics don't make a half-assed run over the second half and end up with a middle of the first round pick. That would be a franchise killer. With Rondo out, the time to get a low-ish lottery pick is now. We need to get some luck like the 1997 Spurs and draft a building lock for the future. As has been pointed out numerous times elsewhere here, trading for a star or signing a star as a free agent will be extremely difficult for the immediate future.

The problem with your analysis is the idea of "some luck".  Actually, what wouild be needed is a "boatload of luck".  Since that, by definition. probably won't happen, the argument for "blowing it up" is just not that convincing.

[DannyDarwinism]

So I was messing around on 82games.com and noticed that Bass is a whopping -143 in plus/minus for the season.  Now that seemed pretty shitty, but I know plus/minus can be somewhat misleading so I checked out some of the numbers for guys on teams that were close to the Celtics in scoring differential- the Cs are -1.3 points/game on the year, close teams are the Bucks (-0.6), Detroit (-1.2), Toronto (-1.9), Utah (-0.2), Portland (-1.9) and Minnesota (-2.1).  Bass's suck stands alone.  The only guy on any of those teams that's even close is Jonas Valanciunas (-131).  To be fair, Valanciunas racked up his -131 in a lot less minutes than Bass, but then again, he's a 20 year old rookie from Lithuania .  The only other guy to break -100 is Brandon Jennings (-101), a remarkably inefficient high-volume shooter. FWIW, Barbosa (-60) and Rondo (-56) are next up on the Celtics.

 

Not a perfect metric by any stretch, and certainly not the only one that indicates that Bass sucks, but there it is.

[Koufax]

Very interesting that Rondo is in minus territory at all.  His defense has been suspect all year.

[DannyDarwinism]

Very interesting that Rondo is in minus territory at all.  His defense has been suspect all year.

 

Well the Celtics are -59 overall for the season, so he's in-line with the team overall.  The only significant guys in the positive are Sullinger (+38), Terry (+8), Garnett (+5) and Green (+1).  Sullinger's numbers are encouraging, but he has an advantage in that he's rarely on the floor at the same time as Bass.  

[Brickowski]

I don't think it's any secret the the Celtics starters have played poorly as a unit this year. Bass is a big factor, but so is Rondo's indifferent defense and Pierce's slow decline.  There are three problems with that unit IMHO: poor rebounding, no post game and no fast break points.  They are a unit that relies much too heavily on the worst shot in basketball: long 2-pointers.

 

Here is a very good article which IMHO is spot on in its analysis of what's wrong with the Celtics this year.  I also like some of the trade ideas (but NOT the ones involving Bargnani).

http://www.grantland...-celtics-do-now

Edited by Brickowski, 29 January 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Not sure exactly where to put this, but it's got to be killing Ainge to see Andre Drummond so dominant in Detroit right now. 

 

By all accounts, when he offered Pierce to Brooklyn for the number 6 pick, he was doing so with Drummond in mind. 

[BigSoxFan]

Not sure exactly where to put this, but it's got to be killing Ainge to see Andre Drummond so dominant in Detroit right now. 

 

By all accounts, when he offered Pierce to Brooklyn for the number 6 pick, he was doing so with Drummond in mind. 

 

I think it's probably killing UConn fans more...

[dolomite133]

I hope Doc tries to give Melo more minutes as the season goes on. Not only is it important for Melo, but it's going to be important for the team, because we're either (a) going to need depth at the 4/5 in the playoffs or (b) going to need to rest KG now so he can play 40 minutes per game in the playoffs.

[The Legendary WOTR]

A. Sherrod Blakely ‏@SherrodbCSN

#Celticstalk: The rumor is true. The #Celtics did meet with Greg Oden today in Waltham. More to come on #CSNNE.com.

[DannyDarwinism]

Not sure exactly where to put this, but it's got to be killing Ainge to see Andre Drummond so dominant in Detroit right now. 

 

By all accounts, when he offered Pierce to Brooklyn for the number 6 pick, he was doing so with Drummond in mind. 

 

FWIW, though he shines in PER as well (22.7), if Dave Berri is more your thing, Drummond leads all players with more than 900 minutes played this year in Win Produced/48. He just edges out Chris Paul.  That's remarkable for a rookie.  If he could hit a free throw once in a while, he'd be even higher.

[bowiac]

FWIW, though he shines in PER as well (22.7), if Dave Berri is more your thing, Drummond leads all players with more than 900 minutes played this year in Win Produced/48. He just edges out Chris Paul.  That's remarkable for a rookie.  If he could hit a free throw once in a while, he'd be even higher.

The only rookie I'd consider taking over Drummond would be Anthony Davis, and even that is a tossup.

[Brickowski]

There is a rumor that Austin Ainge flew to Athens recently to scout the latest European wunderkind, Giannis Adetokunbo. Apparently the Lakers are also interested.

 

Edited by Brickowski, 06 March 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[dolomite133]

No mention of Prince Paul Pierce? This board has really lost its fastball.

 

http://www.boston.co...pierce_wel.html

[fairlee76]

No mention of Prince Paul Pierce? This board has really lost its fastball.

 

http://www.boston.co...pierce_wel.html

I am going to assume it is his way of paying homage to these guys: .  Please?