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2012 General Celtics Notes


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#1 knucklecup


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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

There really isn't a place to post random Celtics notes. This is that. I liked these comments from Rondo in the Globe after Friday nights disgraceful performance:

Rajon Rondo accepted responsibility for the Boston Celtics’ 0-2 start to the season.
“We have to trust one another defensively,” Rondo said after allowing 21 points and 13 assists to Brandon Jennings in a 99-88 loss to the Bucks on Friday. “It starts with me. I have to do a better job on the ball. We can say we [trust each other], but on the court it shows we’re not pulling in weakside [help]. There’s a lot of things.
“We’ve just got to start somewhere, and that’s the good thing about the league — we can start tomorrow.”
In two games, opponents have shot 50.3 percent against Boston, including 47.1 percent from beyond the arc.
“I’m going to try to come out and set the tone defensively [Saturday night against the Wizards],” Rondo said. “That’s all I can do. We’ve got to each look ourselves in the mirror and find a way to dig down and bring something to what we’ve been doing. Bring a little bit more to the game. I’m the point guard, I’m the first line of defense, I initiate the offense. I’ve got to be better.”


http://www.boston.co...A0FO/story.html

Edited by knucklecup, 04 November 2012 - 03:16 PM.


#2 knucklecup


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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:39 PM

Jason Terry weighs in on the Celtics early struggles:

The first two games were some of those speed bumps. It takes time to jell as a team. Preseason is one thing, but when you talk about regular-season basketball, we're competing at the highest level. We're playing against teams like Miami. The Heat are the champions, and the core of that team has been together and had two full seasons for the most part. They're going to know each other very well, while we're still trying to figure it out. We're going to struggle in a situation like that. I think we did struggle a little bit to start the season. But, like I said, we're very optimistic. We know our ceiling is very high with our expectations. We know if we continue to grow at a steady pace, then we'll be clicking at the right time, which is what we want.


http://espn.go.com/b...-was-a-must-win

Edited by knucklecup, 04 November 2012 - 08:39 PM.


#3 knucklecup


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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:44 PM

Herald following the Celtics win last night:

“We got the win, and that’s the most important part at the end of the day,” said Pierce, who led all scorers with 27 points. “Obviously we’ve got to get better, but it’s good to finally get that win under our belt and just try to build on it.”
Added Kevin Garnett after an assertive 15 points, “We came with a purpose. We came tonight with a little fire. That’s the way Doc’s team’s been built. We’ve got to get a fire under this team, an edge. We’ve got to get back to playing form basketball, and I thought tonight we were aggressive. We communicated. We had each other’s backs, and we’ve got to continue to do that.”
And they’ve got to continue to get production from these two guys, Pierce and Garnett. That, along with defense, was the early directive from above.
“I made a point of it,” said Rivers. “I reminded our guys that Paul was on our team and Kevin was on our team. That’s how it’s got to be every night.
“We had control of the game the entire game,” said Rajon Rondo [stats], who went for another double-double with 12 points and 12 assists. “When we had to get a stop, we did. And regardless of how we got the win, we got the win.”


http://news.bostonhe...elt#articleFull

#4 knucklecup


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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:47 PM

I agree with Rondo in the sense that they had control of the game the entire night. That said, it would have been nice to bury a team they're far superior than rather than let them hang around the entire game like they did. Improvement is improvement though.

#5 dolomite133


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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:17 PM

Is this the catch-all thread? If so, is there a place for Kenyon Martin on this team or what? Yes, roster is full, but we could probably find a way if need be.

#6 The Social Chair

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:14 PM

I missed this note from a few days ago, and I thought it was worth posting. KG is the best.

“When we came in the locker room, KG spoke,” Courtney Lee said. “What he said is that we’ve got to go into every battle like we’re the underdog, like we have nothing, like we’re scrapping. He used the hyena as an example. The hyena, when they go for the kill, they eat in packs. And that’s how we’ve got to do it. We’ve gotta go out there, have each other’s backs, play for each other, make the right plays and be on the same page.”

“Hyenas was the word I used,” said Garnett, who scored a team-high 15 points. “We eat in packs here, and we help each other. Since I’ve been here, we’ve built a cult of what great organizations have been built on in their history, and that’s been not individual but team. I just spoke upon that with everybody in here — without the coaches — and just letting all the new guys know what it means to be a C, re-innovating that and letting them understand the severity of putting this jersey on and everything that comes with that. I won’t go into that. It’s none of y’all business, but I had to re-innovate that, and I felt like tonight was the perfect night to do that.”



#7 Koufax

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:55 PM

I agree with Rondo in the sense that they had control of the game the entire night.


Rondo was nearly correct. However, when the opponent has a lead with under 3 minutes to play, I would not call that "control of the game". They had control until the final minutes, then they lost it.

#8 CJM

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:34 PM

Rondo guest taught a 9th grade Algebra class, apparently "without the help of any public relations personnel". The article's a bit of fluffery, but anytime you can get Rondo at the whiteboard breaking down in 9th grade terms the fusion drive on the rocketship that brought him to Earth, you have to take it:


Posted Image

That's right. The secret to his fusion drive is the number 14.

Edited by CJM, 07 November 2012 - 04:35 PM.


#9 dolomite133


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Posted 24 December 2012 - 02:03 PM

I guess this is the catchall C's thread?

Team announced they signed this guy from the D-league.

I feel like this is an obvious move. And, frankly, is something the Celtics should have been doing more often the last few seasons (signing D-league big men to reduce starters minutes when possible).

#10 Brickowski

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

I guess Kenyon Martin is too expensive.

#11 BannedbyNYYFans.com

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 03:21 PM

I guess Kenyon Martin is too expensive.


I saw Jackie Mac on CSNNE saying there is zero chance the Cs would ever go after him. She said the people she spoke with said Ainge hates Martin. I think she meant as a player but maybe there is more to it.

#12 Brickowski

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

Well, Varnado was the college DPOY. I wonder why he couldn't stick with the Heat.

#13 knucklecup


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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

Varnado is Tyrus Thomas without the awesome March Madness. Undersized but incredibly athletic.

He looked like JuJuan Johnson's identical twin today.

#14 DannyDarwinism

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:29 PM

I don't know the nature of the back issues that caused NBA docs to "red flag" Sullinger, but I really hope his health holds up because he's a fun guy to pull for- good motor and smarts, says all the right things, seems like a good teammate- and with his rebounding acumen and sweet shot, he's got some plus skills. During the draft it's easy to get enamored with the guys who can jump out of the gym, but there's value to be found in the highly productive college players with limited athleticism. More Sully, less Bass. Bass just has no feel for the game, it's painful to watch.

Jeff Green has had a pretty nice December. Maybe he's turning things around.

And meanwhile, in the D-League... Fab has struggled overall, but the other night he put up 15/16 with 14 blocks, which is a D-League record.

#15 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:21 PM

Green has played 26 games this years which is exactly as many games as he played on the year he got traded to the Celts.

He's put virtually the same numbers as he did then, with his FG being down by 6% and his 3pt % being exactly the same as well.

So as far as I see, despite the up and downs he's made no progress yet. May be he ll improve even more and perhaps he's valuable as it is, I dunno.

#16 Jed Zeppelin


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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:33 PM

His rate stats have pretty nuch been the same his entire career. Adequate role player, won't ever be a top player on a title contender.

#17 DannyDarwinism

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:27 AM

Green has played 26 games this years which is exactly as many games as he played on the year he got traded to the Celts.

He's put virtually the same numbers as he did then, with his FG being down by 6% and his 3pt % being exactly the same as well.

So as far as I see, despite the up and downs he's made no progress yet. May be he ll improve even more and perhaps he's valuable as it is, I dunno.


Instead of "pretty nice", I should've simply said that he has been better on both ends of the court than he was early on in the season. He was terrible in November and he hasn't shown himself to be much more than average during the rest of his career, but I'm looking at his December numbers in the context of his in-season progress- after all, the guy missed an entire year. If his December was in-line with his pre-heart condition numbers, I actually find that somewhat encouraging.

Edited by DannyDarwinism, 26 December 2012 - 10:07 AM.


#18 Brickowski

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:49 AM

I don't remember how good he was defensively pre-heart condition, but today Green's defense on Joe Johnson was decent. Progress is almost always a sine curve.

But I wish he could learn how to rebound the ball.

#19 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:53 AM

Instead of "pretty nice", I should've simply said that he has been better on both ends of the court than he was early on in the season. He was terrible in September and November and he hasn't shown himself to be much more than average during the rest of his career, but I'm looking at his December numbers in the context of his in-season progress- after all, the guy missed an entire year. If his December was in-line with his pre-heart condition numbers, I actually find that somewhat encouraging.


Yeah, but what I am thinking is that, while I cannot preclude the possibility that Green is indeed making progress, what has happened was simple statistical noise which obscured the fact that Green hasn't been worse or better than he ever was.

#20 DannyDarwinism

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:07 AM

Yeah, but what I am thinking is that, while I cannot preclude the possibility that Green is indeed making progress, what has happened was simple statistical noise which obscured the fact that Green hasn't been worse or better than he ever was.


Don't get me wrong, if anything he's been slightly worse than ever since he got here, which is probably why I'm straining hard to find positive signs. At this point, it's pretty clear that his sophmore year is the outlier, but if he could be that guy again- with 39% on 3s and 6.5 rebounds/36- he'd be useful. But he has regressed since then in nearly every catagory, (most dramtically from deep- he followed up the 39% with seasons of 33% and 30%) and if that's more in line with who he really is, he'll need to work hard to be replacement level.

Green has played 26 games this years which is exactly as many games as he played on the year he got traded to the Celts.

He's put virtually the same numbers as he did then, with his FG being down by 6% and his 3pt % being exactly the same as well.


Minor nitpick, but I'm seeing that he shot 29.6% from three and 48.5% overall from the floor last year, in his first 26 games as a Celtic, versus 34.7% and 43.4% this year. He's been at 40% and 46.3% in December, which underscores just how bad his November was. But with a total of 25 three-point attempts in the month, you're right to point out the statistical irrelevance, and my personal observation that he "looks" better should be taken with a large, green-tinted grain of salt

#21 Plantier's Fasciitis

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

I don't know the nature of the back issues that caused NBA docs to "red flag" Sullinger, but I really hope his health holds up because he's a fun guy to pull for- good motor and smarts, says all the right things, seems like a good teammate- and with his rebounding acumen and sweet shot, he's got some plus skills.


Back to Sullinger. I am ignorant regarding advanced stats for basketball. Is there anything like a +/- for rebounding while on the court? Finally getting a chance to watch some hoop this year, and I love seeing Sullinger blocking out so well. Someone else often comes in and gets credit for the rebound, but usually he is putting a body on an opponent when a shot goes up and backing him away from the basket. Coach's son, I believe.

#22 DannyDarwinism

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:03 PM

Back to Sullinger. I am ignorant regarding advanced stats for basketball. Is there anything like a +/- for rebounding while on the court? Finally getting a chance to watch some hoop this year, and I love seeing Sullinger blocking out so well. Someone else often comes in and gets credit for the rebound, but usually he is putting a body on an opponent when a shot goes up and backing him away from the basket. Coach's son, I believe.


This says that the Celtics grab 25.7% of offensive rebounds while he's on the court, while they only get 20.3% when he's off. They grab 73.5% of defensive boards with him, and 71.3 without him.

#23 Plantier's Fasciitis

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:31 PM

This says that the Celtics grab 25.7% of offensive rebounds while he's on the court, while they only get 20.3% when he's off. They grab 73.5% of defensive boards with him, and 71.3 without him.

Thanks for that info and link. As someone who appreciates more advanced stats in baseball, but is somewhat cynical of same in basketball, can anyone recommend best places to read more? Best advanced stats for basketball?

#24 Jed Zeppelin


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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:49 PM

Fab's last two NBDL games have been interesting:
12/22: 15pts, 16reb (8off), 14blk, 7-14fg 1-2ft
12/26: 32pts, 9reb (6off), 9blk, 12-21fg 8-9ft

Obviously it's the D-League but nice to see anyway.

#25 bowiac


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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:14 PM

Thanks for that info and link. As someone who appreciates more advanced stats in baseball, but is somewhat cynical of same in basketball, can anyone recommend best places to read more? Best advanced stats for basketball?

There's really no centralized source. 82 games has probably the best data because you can analyze it yourself, but at the same time, lacks any kind of top line number. Wages of wins runs a blog about this, but I think they're kind of hacks. ESPN has some okay stuff sometimes (maybe less so with Hollinger gone). Grantland too. But it's a real diaspora out there.

#26 mikeot

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

From

Mark Vandeusen

@LucidSportsFan



Two reasons not to freak out about the Celtics

Posted Image1. Avery Bradley is back. No, this will not solve everything. Yes, many Boston fans (myself included) are probably putting way too much stock into this. But, there is very real evidence that suggests the C's are a much better team with him in the lineup. Since the start of last year the Celtics have played 96 regular season games. They are 19-28 when Bradley plays less than 10 minutes (or not at all), and 34-15 when he plays ten or more.


2. The same things all happened a year ago. In fact, it's so similar it's eerie. The Celts have just been blown out in 3 straight road games to fall to 14-16. Last season they suffered a 5 game skid that left them at 15-17. The final 3 losses of that streak were all by 15 or more, and all away from the Garden. But, from then on they went 24-10 to close out the season.

So as long as Boston can beat Memphis at home tomorrow in Bradley's return, everything will be fine. If not, then it's time to freak out.*

#27 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:16 AM

Can we admit something obvious and yet very painful?

One reason we suck this year is that we don't have Ray Allen. Looking at his stats this year, he's scoring 2 points less, but while playing 8 minutes less and shooting 2 FG less. Meanwhile, his 3 point FG is a godly 45.6% which is the highest percentage of his career. In this light, one understands why he chose to go to Miami. He's getting open shots he wouldn't have gotten in Boston. This means his numbers would probably wouldn't be as good here as they are there.

But all the same, while he didn't invite double teams, he did force one player to guard him in the wings which did open more lanes in the paint. So I am guessing that this has to do with our woes this year.

#28 nighthob

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:03 AM

Ray Allen would be having the same problem that the rest of the roleplayers have, no one on this squad commands a doubleteam anymore. Look how quickly defenders are closing out on Lee, Green, etc. when they're on the three point line. Two years ago you would never see that because defenses were paying too much attention to Pierce. Unfortunately for Boston that ship appears to have sailed. Pierce is their best offensive player and he's a secondary scorer.

#29 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:12 AM

Yeah, they re closing on people. But Ray at the corner had someone on him. That's one guy who's further away from the paint at the weak side. There's a difference, no?

#30 nighthob

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

Yeah, they re closing on people. But Ray at the corner had someone on him. That's one guy who's further away from the paint at the weak side. There's a difference, no?


But the rest of them have defenders on top of them too. It's handy if that defender in the corner is being drawn away from a guy that needs a doubleteam. But that guy isn't there anymore. Pierce is, essentially, Ray Allen circa 2012. What the team is missing is Pierce circa 2011.

#31 slamminsammya

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:27 PM

This year, the Celtics are 20th in the NBA in offensive efficiency at 100 points/100 possessions. Last year they were 24th in the league at 98.9. If you're comparing this team to last year's version and trying to isolate what has changed that has made them so crappy, it ain't the offense and it ain't losing Allen.

People, its the DEFENSE. We have witnessed a top top defensive team (2nd in NBA 2011-2012) plummet to mediocrity. So what changed? I think its a stretch to say swapping Allen for Terry/Lee is causing the defense to struggle. Just from watching the games, they have zero rim protectors when KG leaves the game. Wilcox? Nice offensive player and rebounder, but you need to pair him with someone who knows what their doing defensively because he is a sieve. This team needs a big man who can protect the paint!

#32 ishmael

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

This year, the Celtics are 20th in the NBA in offensive efficiency at 100 points/100 possessions. Last year they were 24th in the league at 98.9. If you're comparing this team to last year's version and trying to isolate what has changed that has made them so crappy, it ain't the offense and it ain't losing Allen.

People, its the DEFENSE. We have witnessed a top top defensive team (2nd in NBA 2011-2012) plummet to mediocrity. So what changed? I think its a stretch to say swapping Allen for Terry/Lee is causing the defense to struggle. Just from watching the games, they have zero rim protectors when KG leaves the game. Wilcox? Nice offensive player and rebounder, but you need to pair him with someone who knows what their doing defensively because he is a sieve. This team needs a big man who can protect the paint!

Meanwhile Minnesota is 6th in the league in points allowed per game.

Coincidence?
Posted Image

#33 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:38 PM

No need to yell. I agree, the defense is a greater culprit. I ve never given thought to Ray's absence because I thought he was replaced, so I thought it was an underappreciated point.

#34 slamminsammya

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:44 PM

Stiemsma has some outrageous on/off numbers. This season:

TWolves Defensive efficiency:
On: 96.9
Off: 103.5

Offensive efficiency:
On: 96.7
Off: 106.3

#35 Sprowl


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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:44 PM

Stiemsma has some outrageous on/off numbers. This season:

TWolves Defensive efficiency:
On: 96.9
Off: 103.5

Offensive efficiency:
On: 96.7
Off: 106.3


That's funny. It looks like Rubio hasn't figured out how to take advantage of Stiemsma's mid-range face-up jumper. I guess Rondo has some real playmaking smarts.


edit: btw, the Celtics' defense before and after Bradley shouldn't be compared. Bradley can be a real difference-maker.

#36 TheWalthamKid

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:15 AM

31-20 tonight from Cousins. I don't care about this guys attitude, trade the house for him.

#37 Sprowl


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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

31-20 tonight from Cousins. I don't care about this guys attitude, trade the house for him.


Meh. Ainge had a brief chance last February when Cousins wore his welcome thin with the Kings, but went in a different direction. Cousins is fully priced now.

#38 TheWalthamKid

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:11 AM

Meh. Ainge had a brief chance last February when Cousins wore his welcome thin with the Kings, but went in a different direction. Cousins is fully priced now.


I agree, but the Kings are so confused on what they want to do with Cousins that you may be able to steal him if Danny plays his cards right.

Speaking of Danny, last years summer of FA's has so far been a pretty big bust. Darko evaporated back to Europe, Terry is really good at taking shots, not so good at the making part, Lee may have had expectaions that were a little too high and I'm starting to think that Green is never going to reach his potential, let alone fulfill that contract.

#39 Brickowski

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:03 AM

. Cousins is fully priced now.


Yep, Cousins dropped 31 last night with 20 boards. The Kings have won 4 out of 5 since Cousins' return from the suspension. Forget about him.

#40 nighthob

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

That's funny. It looks like Rubio hasn't figured out how to take advantage of Stiemsma's mid-range face-up jumper. I guess Rondo has some real playmaking smarts.


Truly, look at how much different his numbers were in Boston

Celtics' Defensive efficiency
On: 100.2
Off: 99.2

Offensive efficiency:
On: 96.7
Off: 104

On second thought, maybe he's just really bad at offense?

Edited by nighthob, 05 January 2013 - 03:34 PM.


#41 DannyDarwinism

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:27 AM

For all the talk about how bad Bass has been, outside of FG%, he's pretty much the same guy on offense he's always been. He's shooting and getting to the line a bit less, but if he just makes 12 more shots over the course of the year- out of 245- he's at his career average of 49% instead of 44.5%. The problem is that a decent shooting touch is basically his only plus skill at PF. He's taking the same percentage of jumpers this year, he's just not making them as much. It's easier to overlook his deficiencies when he's knocking down the 17 footers.

Defensively he looks lost and lethargic. He's a frustrating guy to watch.

#42 slamminsammya

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

Truly, look at how much different his numbers were in Boston

Celtics' Defensive efficiency
On: 100.2
Off: 99.2

Offensive efficiency:
On: 96.7
Off: 104

On second thought, maybe he's just really bad at offense?


You need to be careful with the 82games.com numbers, since for some reason they were never fully updated last season after the Celtics started getting on their roll. Notice that the on/off data for the C's defense tells you that their total efficiency should have been around 100, but actually they finished the season with a defensive efficiency of 95.5. If you check you will see all sorts of anomalies like this. I don't know if this is also true with other teams.

#43 nighthob

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

You need to be careful with the 82games.com numbers, since for some reason they were never fully updated last season after the Celtics started getting on their roll. Notice that the on/off data for the C's defense tells you that their total efficiency should have been around 100, but actually they finished the season with a defensive efficiency of 95.5. If you check you will see all sorts of anomalies like this. I don't know if this is also true with other teams.


I'm not certain where you're getting the 95.5 number, but depending on how you calculate dPts/100 their number for 2012 was between 98-99, which is where 82 Games has them. You may be looking at the 2012-2013 numbers.

#44 The Legendary WOTR

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:50 PM

The Celtics waived Joseph and Varnado.
January 10th is the guaranteed contract cut-off day.
January 15th is when Green and Bass can finally be dealt.

Not that there's a great deal of interest in either of them,
but it's possible, the reason Bass is back in the starting lineup as
opposed to the more deserving Sullivan, is to showcase him,
with Bradley resurrecting the Celtics defense (Number One with
a bullet statistically since he's returned) Bass has a chance to
shine now or at least have some of his more inherent flaws be mitigated.

#45 slamminsammya

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:05 PM

I'm not certain where you're getting the 95.5 number, but depending on how you calculate dPts/100 their number for 2012 was between 98-99, which is where 82 Games has them. You may be looking at the 2012-2013 numbers.


Per hoopdata.com :
http://www.hoopdata....yr=2012&type=pg

However, basketball reference has them at 98.2 which is probably what 82games was working from. My bad, but I have no idea where the discrepancy is coming from, since they both claim to be using the same formula.

Edited by slamminsammya, 06 January 2013 - 07:06 PM.


#46 nighthob

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:23 PM

Actually, they don't. Hoopdata seems to have a slightly different way of calculating possessions which basically produces a lower number (essentially generating a slightly higher possessions number in the denominator). Basketball Reference uses the Dean Oliver method for calculation while 82 games uses a formula that is similar to, but slightly different than Oliver's which gives them a slightly higher number. As Hoopdata is ESPN I'm guessing that they're using a Hollinger formula for the calculation.

#47 radsoxfan


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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

Mildly surprised about the Joseph cut. Not that I had huge hopes or him or anything, but it seemed like he had done enough to secure a spot. Was hopeful he could perhaps turn into a useful bench piece at some point given his size and possible defensive ability.

Maybe there are a few other moves in the works....

#48 Corsi


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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:33 PM

A. Sherrod:

#Celticstalk: The #Celtics decision to waive Vernado AND Joseph, opens the door for what one league source says may be a "blockbuster" deal.

https://mobile.twitt...079450904604672

#49 RedOctober3829


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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:39 PM

@SherrodbCSN: #Celticstalk: The name that keeps coming up with everyone I speak with about the #Celtics and trades, is #Kings stud DeMarcus Cousins.

#50 scottyno

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:39 PM

and a followup tweet

A. Sherrod Blakely@SherrodbCSN
#Celticstalk: The name that keeps coming up with everyone I speak with about the #Celtics and trades, is #Kings stud DeMarcus Cousins.




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