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Kevin Youkilis


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#1 alannathan

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

Apparently the White Sox have declined their 2013 option on Youk. I think the Red Sox should try to sign him to a 2-yr contract, perhaps with a 3rd yr. option. Plugs hole at 1B for the time being and is one less thing to worry about this offseason.

#2 Paul M


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

I'd rather a young LH option than Youkilis and prefer to move on. He's a candidate to fall off a cliff and the trend he's on now is not a good one. He'd be ok as a 300 AB guy facing all lefties and some RHs but I don't think Kevin Youkilis is up for that role. His numbers vs. RH are just not good enough to be a starter and at 34 this is probably his new baseline.

#3 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:33 PM

Eh, he can't hit righties anymore, trouble catching up to fastballs, and has had strange home / road splits for the past two years. I don't see how you could guarantee him more than a year at this point.

#4 Rasputin


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:42 PM

I don't know if he'd buy it, but I think there could be a role for him.

He could platoon at first with Morneau (you know, assuming we get him), back up third, and pinch hit every time Iglesias comes up in a remotely important spot.

#5 nvalvo


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:18 PM

I don't know if he'd buy it, but I think there could be a role for him.

He could platoon at first with Morneau (you know, assuming we get him), back up third, and pinch hit every time Iglesias comes up in a remotely important spot.


Also, while we all hope Ortiz will be healthy, he is not a lock for 700 PA. Having a legit bench bat around wouldn't be the worst idea, in case he needs to take a few games at DH here and there.

I'm not sure if that player should be Youkilis — but for the reasons Ras outlined, having that player be a corner infielder would make some sense.

#6 syoo8

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:27 PM

I remember seeing Youk cheering in the dugout during the '04 LCS… In my mind he is still a "young player." It is frightening how already in his age 33 season Youk has hit his "decline phase." Make me feel old.

He's basically a 1 win player at this point… wonder if he'd take 2/9 with a team option and buyout?

#7 Rasputin


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:46 PM

Between Ortiz, Sands, Youkilis, Morneau, and Ross, you could cover DH, first, left, and back up left, right, and third.

That would leave only eight other position spots. Two catchers leaves six to cover center, right, third, short, second, and backup middle infield.

In a completely unrelated note, anyone know what the record is for pinch hitting appearances by an AL team?

I don't know if you can really get by with platoons at two positions and a shortstop you'll need to pinch hit for often, but I rather suspect the Sox will have to enter the season with a sub optimal lineup. You'd be lacking in flexibility. With the current personnel, you would often be pinch hitting for Iglesias then using Ciriaco which would be woefully inefficient.

#8 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:52 PM

I'd rather a young LH option than Youkilis and prefer to move on.


Which young LH option would that be, though? I'd like a young LH option too. I'm just not sure I see one out there.

When I saw this thread title, I thought "ohmigod you goddabekiddinme." Then I remembered that the Sox are semi-desperate for a first baseman. Right now our candidates for 2012 are Jerry Sands, who has very limited ML experience and is by all accounts more of an OF, and Mauro Gomez, who has very limited ML experience and is by our own observation more of a DH.

Don't compare the current Youk to the old Youk; compare him to the current alternatives. And he comes out looking fairly good. His slash line for 2012 -- .235/.336/.409 in 509 PA -- is fine except for the AVG, which is a function of a career-low .268 BABIP. Now granted, that BABIP has been slipping steadily since 2009, so this isn't entirely fluky, but .268 is off the proverbial cliff, and it might be reasonable to wonder if it's really predictive.

The weird thing is that Youk's BABIP has declined even as his GB% has increased--and the GB% is increasing at the expense of FB, not LD to any significant degree. He had a LD% over 20 last year, as he nearly always does. Again, something is fishy here.

Giving Youk his old, less demanding 1B job back, for a couple of years at a moderate price (say 2/15), might be a smart out-of-the-box way to deal with a difficult roster situation. It would allow us to focus our trade resources on the corner OF hole and/or the starting rotation. He might not be thrilled about coming back after the way things went last year; OTOH, his nemesis is gone, and you wouldn't need to remind him of how much Fenway likes his swing (even last year, for all his early-season struggles with the Sox, he hit .289/.369/.489 here). Sands is always there as a backup option.

I'm having trouble convincing myself this is a bad idea.

#9 Rasputin


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:59 PM

I'm having trouble convincing myself this is a bad idea.


There are very few ideas that involve players who have some useful skills and a short term/low money contract that are terrible.

#10 ThatsMyPeskyPole

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:16 PM

Not a bad idea for one year. Is his bigger problem with FO or team mates.

#11 knucklecup


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:36 PM

What kind of a contract do you think he will command?

#12 Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:49 PM

Not a bad idea for one year. Is his bigger problem with FO or team mates.

Is there any real evidence that he had a problem with anyone other than the former Manager?

#13 Edelpeddle

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:00 PM

Is there any real evidence that he had a problem with anyone other than the former Manager?


He called out Jacoby Ellsbury in the media and nearly got into a fist fight in the dugout in 2010.

#14 Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:12 PM

Who did he almost fight in 2010?

#15 Edelpeddle

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:13 PM

Who did he almost fight in 2010?


My bad, it was Manny in 2008.

http://boston.redsox...d=mlb&fext=.jsp

#16 brs3


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:17 PM

Do people think the only reason Youk was traded was because of Bobby V? I can't be the only one who expected to see Youk traded or not re-signed after 2012. He's been in decline since turning 30. I would be shocked if the Sox seriously considered bringing him back, only based on his on-field performance. I will always appreciate Youk's Sox tenure, but bringing him back makes zero sense.

#17 Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:22 PM

Do people think the only reason Youk was traded was because of Bobby V? I can't be the only one who expected to see Youk traded or not re-signed after 2012. He's been in decline since turning 30. I would be shocked if the Sox seriously considered bringing him back, only based on his on-field performance. I will always appreciate Youk's Sox tenure, but bringing him back makes zero sense.

Well, I think it was also because they wanted to play WMB at third and they were set at first with Adrian. Now they have an opening at first with no obvious fix.
I'm on the fence about this one and I'm trying not to let sentimentality get in the way, which is hard. But I think it makes more than zero sense, at the right price.

#18 Edelpeddle

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:22 PM

Do people think the only reason Youk was traded was because of Bobby V? I can't be the only one who expected to see Youk traded or not re-signed after 2012. He's been in decline since turning 30. I would be shocked if the Sox seriously considered bringing him back, only based on his on-field performance. I will always appreciate Youk's Sox tenure, but bringing him back makes zero sense.


No, I agree with you. I loved Kevin Youkilis, he was my favorite player for a long time. But there's been a definite downward trend in his offensive and defensive abilities the last two seasons. His strike out rates have gone up, his groundball rates have gone way up, his ISO has gone down, he's lost a couple steps and was struggling to stay healthy over a full season. I would consider his past issues with players and a manger, his declining performance and his inability to stay healthy enough reason to pass.

#19 brs3


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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:44 PM

Well, I think it was also because they wanted to play WMB at third and they were set at first with Adrian. Now they have an opening at first with no obvious fix.
I'm on the fence about this one and I'm trying not to let sentimentality get in the way, which is hard. But I think it makes more than zero sense, at the right price.


With a new manager, new coaches, and a FO probably looking to cultivate a new clubhouse, I'm not sure Youk fits. Youk might be beloved by teammates, or hated, or whatever..but considering more than 2 dozen players have left since the start of 2011, I don't think they're going to bring him back. There's not much to support whether he was a part of the problem or not, as we're going by almost exclusively dugout video and sportswriters opining.

The 1B free agent class isn't that great(Napoli?), but they might be worth a shot for their numbers and their fresh introduction to Boston.

edit: i know Youk obviously has a connection w/ the new manager, but the overall point still stands with the concept of clearing house.

Edited by brs3, 30 October 2012 - 11:45 PM.


#20 EP Sox Fan

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:57 PM

It's amazing to see how far Youks' star has fallen in three years. From a Gold Glove caliber 1B with good power and OBP skills to borderline starter / possible platoon player. To me he definite concern is the injury history. IMO a lot of the performance issues can be tied to that. Pursuing Fangraphs I found this article (http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/the-good-news-kevin-youkilis-is-ranked-at-first-base/)
which admittedly is written from a fantasy perspective but nevertheless provides a good context to his struggles the past two seasons. For me I think switch back to 1B which seems to me a less demanding physical position could do him some good. He's a known quantity that can get on base and grind out at bats, something that has been missing from this lineup and provide some decent defense. With the White Sox declining his option and his struggles the last few years, he may be a good candidate to come in on a 1 year contract with an option to see if he can build up his value for one last shot at a good contract. It's not like the other available options are all that fantastic.

#21 biollante


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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:17 AM

I would assume that Youk will sign elsewhere for more money than the Sox would pay him. His apparent decline is tough to absorb. He really should play first more.

#22 MHead81

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:59 AM

It's too bad that Youkilis probably won't want to accept a role as a platoon player and backup, because he'd be a nice platoon partner against LHP at 1B with Morneau. He'd also be the backup 3B and would be a nice bat off the bench. They could get him some PAs at DH occasionally to keep Ortiz fresh as well.

2012 Morneau vs. RHP: .290/.371/.531/.902
2012 Youkilis vs. LHP: .275/.386/.492/.878

#23 jacklamabe65


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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:22 AM

I think you leave this one up to Farrell. If he likes the idea and has a good relationship with Youkilis, why not for a year?

#24 SaveBooFerriss


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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:32 AM

Do people think the only reason Youk was traded was because of Bobby V?


No, the primary reason that Youk was traded was that the Sox had three other players that played the three positions that Youk could potentially occupy (3B, 1B, DH). Now, the Sox have any opening at 1B.

I wouldn't put Youk as my first choice for 1B, but under the right deal it may make sense.

#25 OnWisc

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:35 AM

It's too bad that Youkilis probably won't want to accept a role as a platoon player and backup, because he'd be a nice platoon partner against LHP at 1B with Morneau. He'd also be the backup 3B and would be a nice bat off the bench. They could get him some PAs at DH occasionally to keep Ortiz fresh as well.

2012 Morneau vs. RHP: .290/.371/.531/.902
2012 Youkilis vs. LHP: .275/.386/.492/.878


I agree with this. Despite the .874 & .854 Youkilis put up in July & August, I wouldn't want him back in an everyday role. I'd prefer to avoid a 2012 redux if Youkilis puts up the sub .700 OPS he produced in the other months of the season.

I do think Youks would work in a platoon role. And I think it's a role he'd accept with the Sox if it were all that was available. But I suspect that if he's offered a full time position anywhere, he's taking it.

#26 someoneanywhere

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:23 AM

I think you leave this one up to Farrell. If he likes the idea and has a good relationship with Youkilis, why not for a year?


For me the answer has less to do with production and everything to do with acceptance -- I'd want it clear that we're not putting the band back together, that the organization is looking for contributions that extend off the field and into the clubhouse and with the fanbase, that mentorship of young players (especially hitters and major-league approach) is a big part of the deal, and so on. I'd tell him that 200 or 250 ABs is really what we have in mind. And I would ensure myself on the organizational end by offering him something respectable, but something I could eat with no real disappointment if somehow things didn't go like this.

If Rolen is toast in Cincinnati, Youk may find that Jocketty wants him more than Ben does.

#27 bosockboy


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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:26 AM

If Rolen is toast in Cincinnati, Youk may find that Jocketty wants him more than Ben does.


Frazier is ready to roll there; my feeling is that AZ is a good match for him.

#28 dylanmarsh

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:36 PM

Frazier is ready to roll there; my feeling is that AZ is a good match for him.


If the money is right, sure. But, I think Towers will roll with a platoon of Johnson (Arb1) and Wheeler (rookie) with the hope that Wheeler produces in majors like he did in the minors.

I agree with you on Cincy. Cleveland, Baltimore, Houston, and even Oakland could be players for Youkilis. I don't see him coming back here or going to the NL, though.

#29 Beomoose


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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

I think you leave this one up to Farrell. If he likes the idea and has a good relationship with Youkilis, why not for a year?

This is where I am. If Youk is willing to and Farrell is willing to, give it a shot.

#30 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:00 PM

Given the presence of Tito and the fact that he's from Ohio, Cleveland makes too much sense.

#31 Dick Pole Upside

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

FWIW, I seem to recall WMB having complimentary things to say about Youk as a mentor; with the opening (platoon or otherwise) at first, Youk might be an option if he can't find a full-time gig somewhere else.

As for allegations that Youk was The Snitch? Well, Beckett's gone, Lester's a whiny baby that Farrell will grab by the ear, and Buchholz will sh!t his britches the first time Farrell digs into him. As for Lackey? I don't see Farrell taking any crap from him. In summary: the pitchers can go suck it... Youk could fill a nice short-term role.

P.S. Nobody sweats like Youk. Takes pitches, OBP, sweats... Moneyball!

Edited by Dick Pole Upside, 31 October 2012 - 07:49 PM.


#32 Toe Nash

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:17 PM

So the Sox don't have a first baseman. That is one of the better problems to have as it's one of the easiest positions to fill, if not the easiest. Since they're not necessarily expecting to contend this year, I'd much rather them try to find the next Carlos Pena, Chris Carter, or Edwin Encarnacion than waste playing time on a guy who is clearly on the decline. Heck, Adrian Gonzalez played for three teams before breaking through, right?

#33 YTF

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:33 PM

So the Sox don't have a first baseman. That is one of the better problems to have as it's one of the easiest positions to fill, if not the easiest. Since they're not necessarily expecting to contend this year, I'd much rather them try to find the next Carlos Pena, Chris Carter, or Edwin Encarnacion than waste playing time on a guy who is clearly on the decline. Heck, Adrian Gonzalez played for three teams before breaking through, right?


Not quite. Three organisations, played for two teams and barely played for the first.

#34 knucklecup


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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

Joe McDonald:

Before the trade to Chicago, Youkilis spent nine years with the Red Sox and was part of two World Series championships. He's a fan favorite and Red Sox Nation would certainly welcome him back.

"He was good player for a long time and always played hard," Cherington said. "We respect Kevin and Kevin's a free agent for the first time, so he'll have options. This is the first time in his career since he's been in college, and before that, he'll have a choice to make about where he plays.

"Guys who put in that time and have earned that right, that doesn't come along very often, so I think he's got more control of the situation than he's ever had before. We respect Kevin and the way he plays. On a personal level, certainly nothing happened that would -- there was no break in the relationship -- but he'll have choices and we'll have choices and we'll see where the offseason takes us."

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