142 replies to this topic

[E5 Yaz]

Farrell wouldn't touch those questions with a ten-foot pole.

That's not the point, though. He should have been asked how he reconciles his apparently great relationship with Francona with going to work for the guys who did his friend so wrong.

[rembrat]

I think those moves still happen because they made financial sense. I think Farrell is smart enough to see that.

It's the other guys you wonder about - Albers, Youkilis, Shoppach who had a beef with Valentine. Not sure if Albers did but he seemed so giddy post trade...

[sachilles]

Two questions I'd like to have heard:

1. "How were you able to reconcile the organization's post-departure leaks regarding Francona's personal life (divorce, prescription drug allegations) and your strong relationships with baseball ops?"

2. "While you say Tito expressed his happiness for your getting this job, did anything related to his departure and those leaks up in your discussions and how were they addressed?"

Not because I want to revisit that tabloid crap, but I think there are valid issues of top-down involvement and leadership that still haven't been properly vetted.

I agree with you. We can only hope he asked those questions behind the scenes. Given his Tito like press handling skills, we can reasonably assume we would have avoided answering that question.

I am glad to have this style of media handling back. I hope the on field results are positive.

[normstalls]

This is just making me more and more angry that we had to endure a year of Bobby V. How in the world did he get the job and keep it for the entire year? How could he possibly have interviewed well enough to mask his horrible communication skills?

The obvious silver lining is that the BV fiasco and crapfest led to the Punto trade and the freeing up of a ton of money. All things considered, last year was a success and a step forward in my opinion. Those contracts would have held the team back for years... Now the Sox can begin the rebuilding process with a competent manager and payroll flexibility.

[TheoShmeo]

That's not the point, though. He should have been asked how he reconciles his apparently great relationship with Francona with going to work for the guys who did his friend so wrong.

It's interesting that Francona publicly suggested that the Sox hire Farrell, Hale and I think Bogar.

One has to assume that Terry did not call them and say "don't take the job; don't work for those guys; they F'd me; they'll F you too."

Maybe that should factor into whether Tito thinks the front office and ownership was behind SmearGate. Maybe it doesn't. But I know that if I thought my prior employer screwed me on the way out the door, I sure as hell would discourage guys I care about from working there unless they had no other viable options. Farrell and Hale have other options. And maybe Tito did and they ignored him. Though it would be odd for him to say that after telling the media that the Sox should approach those guys, as he did.

Unrelated: As someone who was upbeat after Bobby's press conference and preferred the other choices to Farrell, I have to say that I like what I'm gleaning from that press conference from this thread and I love what I've heard from the Sox players. I still have lots of reservations but it's hard not to be upbeat right now. Good!

Edited by TheoShmeo, 23 October 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[NickEsasky]

Did the press conference end with an awkward, contrived, and hokey "everyone get yours hands in Goooooo team!" type moment? If not then I already feel one million times better than I did after the BobbyV press conference

[BoSoxLady]

"Hit the ground running." - Drink!

Heard "Hit the ground running" a zillion times today. Can you say marketing slogan?

[Dick Pole Upside]

The fawning and shock in this thread over how impressive Farrell is as a speaker, and how great a communicator he appears to be, is surprising. It's like none of you ever listened to any of his interviews when he was pitching coach here. The guy had obvious command of the room and subject matter back then.

He's still at church lighting candles for Mike Aviles.

This.

This is right out of Propaganda 101... I mean, no offense to Farrell (he's obviously a good speaker), but none of this is an original thought or anything that any of us with an hour wouldn't have typed up as an assignment for class in answer to the question, "If you were named manager of the Boston Red Sox, what would you say about the job and opportunity during your introductory news conference."

This is all window dressing... for all the disastrous impact that BV had, there were several similar themes (as well as differences) last year.

Farrell mollified the masses... a good start...

Edited by Dick Pole Upside, 23 October 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

As someone who was upbeat after Bobby's press conference and preferred the other choices to Farrell, I have to say that I like what I'm gleaning from that press conference from this thread and I love what I've heard from the Sox players. I still have lots of reservations but it's hard not to be upbeat right now. Good!

Grady Little got a standing ovation from the players in spring training when he was announced as manager. Sometimes the players think they're getting their coach/confidant back without realizing he's now the boss.

We all hope it works, but for starters I just hope it's better than Valentine

[TheoShmeo]

Grady Little got a standing ovation from the players in spring training when he was announced as manager. Sometimes the players think they're getting their coach/confidant back without realizing he's now the boss.

We all hope it works, but for starters I just hope it's better than Valentine

Great point re Grardy and the players.

Still, after having lived through a year of the Sox players, at best, mouthing words in defense of Bobby from time to time and other times effectively gritting their teeth, and understandably so, I still think it's a positive that the players seem so psyched about Farrell.

Late edit:

FWIW, apparently Schilling also thinks that the players are saying good things is itself a good thing.

“If you look at the comments from the players, how excited they are (about the Farrell hire), that’s an indicator No. 1 that you have something different,” Schilling said this morning on Boston sports radio station WEEI. “And I kept trying to think of why ... and the word that keeps coming back to me is presence. John Farrell has a presence and that’s a big deal. That’s got to be part of being a manager now.

http://espn.go.com/b...-has-a-presence

The points made by Dick and Dog are valid but a tad cynical for my tastes. I'll consider that Farrell is saying the right things in the right way to be a victory for now, especially against the backdrop of the last 13-14 months.

Edited by TheoShmeo, 23 October 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[The Boomer]

Dick Williams was a good baseball man and a very good manager in his time. But the changes in MLB culture over the past four+ decades are such that he could not succeed today. Hell, even back when he was in his prime as a manager he drove his players so hard that he burned them out after a few seasons. If he were to return today, my guess is that his tenure would be very much like the one year disaster that was the Bobby Valentine shitshow.

Romanticize the Impossible Dream Sox all you want, but I can't understand why anyone would wish for the second coming of Dick Williams.

I wouldn't assume this is true. Jim Leyland was successful both closer to the end of the Williams era and right now. A HOF manager, in part because of longevity, might be more adaptable than their contemporary managers and probably retain a certain flexibility to adjust to changing times. While Williams was a tough and no nonsense leader, he conceivably could succeed now just as he did in his day.

[Trlicek's Whip]

_{Lots of Kool Aid in this thread already.}

This just mitigates the Ausmus Kool Aid that raged unchecked like a CA forest fire in the managerial thread.

[mabrowndog]

The points made by Dick and Dog are valid but a tad cynical for my tastes. I'll consider that Farrell is saying the right things in the right way to be a victory for now, especially against the backdrop of the last 13-14 months.

Just to be clear, my cynicism was directed at posters in this thread, not at Farrell. I was just surprised at all the "Holy crap! Listen to this guy! He's so assertive and commanding and articulate and impressive!!" stuff, because unless a fan started following this team in 2010 it's unfathomable that they wouldn't have heard him speaking this way before. He gave countless interviews during his years here, whether post-game on NESN, in press conferences, or with individual TV reporters. He also did some of the in-game back-and-forth with Buck & McCarver during FOX broadcasts.

I loved most everything I heard from him today, but very little of it was unexpected.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Grady Little got a standing ovation from the players in spring training when he was announced as manager. Sometimes the players think they're getting their coach/confidant back without realizing he's now the boss.

We all hope it works, but for starters I just hope it's better than Valentine

Who was Grady replacing again? Keep that in mind when this anecdote gets tossed around.

[Marbleheader]

I think much of the commentary was based on how much of a departure he was from the ringmaster they just dumped, I doubt anyone here was dumbfounded that he spoke more articulately than Jimy. I would have been happy with any of the guys they interviewed. After Bobby, I'm sure most of us would have been.

[sachilles]

Opening with a joke was not what I expected from his previous stay here. Judging by the reaction of the press, I'm guessing they didn't expect it either. I can just see Tito counseling the attempt at humor.
I think many remember his interviews here, and most are not surprised with what they heard. After a season of Bobby V at the podium, Farrell sounds like angels singing.
I was surprised a bit by the "Bard is not injured" comment. Seemed to offer more info than what was really necessary for the situation.

I was of the opinion the team needed a fresh start. However, of the former Tito staff, I think Farrell's attitude is the best fit compared to Hale or even Bogar.

[E5 Yaz]

Who was Grady replacing again? Keep that in mind when this anecdote gets tossed around.

Joe Kerrigan, whose time as manager was no one's idea of wonderful. The point is, a popular former coach was brought back and warmly received by the players who remembered him fondly.

The dynamic changes, though. The coach is now the manager and the roster is significantly changed.

[Rough Carrigan]

I wouldn't assume this is true. Jim Leyland was successful both closer to the end of the Williams era and right now. A HOF manager, in part because of longevity, might be more adaptable than their contemporary managers and probably retain a certain flexibility to adjust to changing times. While Williams was a tough and no nonsense leader, he conceivably could succeed now just as he did in his day.

I actually agree with this but I think it depends on whether we're talking about the younger Dick Williams or the older one. The younger Dick Williams who also managed the '72 and '73 A's was perfectly able to deal with a pretty wild clubhouse without going nutty.

[tonyandpals]

Best line was Ben to John - "Put this on your big melon..." handing him the hat.

[Al Zarilla]

"There were very obvious things with Lester watching him pitch that I want to talk about."

I thought I saw an obvious thing with Lester's delivery just from watching him on TV. At the top of the windup, he rocked back and spent too much time on his back foot to the point he looked like he could have collapsed under his own weight.

[YTF]

As awesome as this seems on the face of it, is it a good idea for the runner-up of a job interview process to go to work for the winner as a subordinate? Strong ties and all, but it's not hard to see that being a potentially touchy issue.

What are his options? Miami now has a managerial opening and perhaps one or two more positions open up, but if you want to manage in the bigs being one of the guys to help turn around a high profile franchaise ain't such a bad place to start. Farrell being a former pitching coach and Ausmus being what many term as a "smart catcher" along with a pitching coach that will surely be from the same school as Farrell could be a VERY good thing for a pitching staff with so many question marks. This could be a opportunity for Ausmus to get some great exposure and add to his resume while waiting for a managing gig with a quality franchise.

[geoduck no quahog]

Valntine could have been replaced by a deer tick and it would have been an improvement.

Listening to Farrell talk...it seems all expectations have been met or exceeded.

It's only one step, but man it looks like a good one.

[SoxLegacy]

I really like what I have heard. While it is true that what Farrell said was pretty much standard statements, I agree with those who have said that at least it appears that we have a direction to steer in and a capable captain at the helm.

[mauidano]

Blah, blah, blah. Standard press conference fare. Everybody's happy. Same talk last year. Let's get out and play. Farrell gets a fresh start, no sense rehashing anymore. Let's see how the team plays for themselves first.

[NHbeau]

Blah, blah, blah. Standard press conference fare. Everybody's happy. Same talk last year. Let's get out and play. Farrell gets a fresh start, no sense rehashing anymore. Let's see how the team plays for themselves first.

Really? The most telling part to me was admitting he ran his team into outs, and had a poor handle on the closer situation. Bobby V was perfect, just ask him. This isn't close to the same as last season's abortion of a hiring process. Love the cynicism though.

[Savin Hillbilly]

Really? The most telling part to me was admitting he ran his team into outs, and had a poor handle on the closer situation. Bobby V was perfect, just ask him. This isn't close to the same as last season's abortion of a hiring process. Love the cynicism though.

Right, I think we saw more accountability in a half-hour today from Farrell than we saw in a whole season from Bobby.

[shaft]

Just curious what folks think - if Farrell had been manager last year, do you think we'd still have Beckett, Crawford, etc. on the team? Was BV's presence the impetus for getting them out the door?

This is one theory I've always kept in the back of my mind, of which I couldn't ever hope to prove. I think the Bobby 5 Experience was an exercise to exorcise as many of the "bad elements" and bad contracts as they could, namely Beckett.

[Infield Infidel]

Since they gave Bobby V a 2 year deal, I think their intention all along was to marginally contend for two year until both BV and Farrell's contracts were up, and then sign Farrell. The disaster of 2012 made that outcome impossible, but when they saw a chance to move $$ they did.

It would have been hard to predict that the Dodgers' new owners would go for a deal like this when BV was hired

[Rovin Romine]

This is one theory I've always kept in the back of my mind, of which I couldn't ever hope to prove. I think the Bobby 5 Experience was an exercise to exorcise as many of the "bad elements" and bad contracts as they could, namely Beckett.

I doubt they had that idea going into the season; all signs show that they wanted to contend but without spending more money. They took the opportunity to trade one horrible contract, one questionable contract, and one good contract (along with N.Punto) and get some prospects and room to maneuver. I very much doubt that opportunity would have come along with Farrell at the helm, but I'm actually glad it did. That's because I think the Farrell equation might have had us contending, but more likely would have had us treading water without the ability to restock.

[Average Reds]

This is one theory I've always kept in the back of my mind, of which I couldn't ever hope to prove. I think the Bobby 5 Experience was an exercise to exorcise as many of the "bad elements" and bad contracts as they could, namely Beckett.

That would be a hideously Machiavellian approach, but the reality is that whether they planned it or not, here we are.

For the record, I like what I hear from Farrell and am joyously happy that we got the man they wanted to get, and it's a man who (1) knows what the environment is like and (2) wants the job in any case.

[CaptainLaddie]

JOHN FARRELL: LEADER OF SPORTSMEN!

Is this a joke about the old "what does he know about being a Leader of Men" from the 07 season?

[The Allented Mr Ripley]

I prefer Ricky Roma's line, "Who ever told you that could work with men?", but Pumpsie takes second place.

Pumpsie was a Bobby V guy, so take that for what it's worth.

[Oil Can Dan]

Does it bother anyone else that Farrell bailed on Toronto with a year left on his deal? I consider standing by your commitments to be an honorable thing and he clearly didn't do that. Sure, Toronto worked out compensation and did the deal but it seems pretty clear to me that had Farrell come out initially and said something to the effect of "I've heard the rumors about Boston and I feel compelled to say that I appreciate the thought, but I'm under contract with a great organization and so that's that".

I've seen him call this his 'dream job' and all and that's super, but I'd be pretty pissed if a guy under the same circumstances jumped ship from the Red Sox to the Yankees, and I imagine a lot of people here would be too.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Does it bother anyone else that Farrell bailed on Toronto with a year left on his deal? I consider standing by your commitments to be an honorable thing and he clearly didn't do that. Sure, Toronto worked out compensation and did the deal but it seems pretty clear to me that had Farrell come out initially and said something to the effect of "I've heard the rumors about Boston and I feel compelled to say that I appreciate the thought, but I'm under contract with a great organization and so that's that".

I've seen him call this his 'dream job' and all and that's super, but I'd be pretty pissed if a guy under the same circumstances jumped ship from the Red Sox to the Yankees, and I imagine a lot of people here would be too.

He couldn't jump ship. Had Toronto told Boston to go pound sand, Farrell wasn't going anywhere.

Remember, Toronto also put in a policy last year preventing employees from leaving to take lateral positions elsewhere, a provision that did not exist when they hired Farrell in the first place. That's kinda moving the goalposts on their part too.

[tims4wins]

Does it bother anyone else that Farrell bailed on Toronto with a year left on his deal? I consider standing by your commitments to be an honorable thing and he clearly didn't do that. Sure, Toronto worked out compensation and did the deal but it seems pretty clear to me that had Farrell come out initially and said something to the effect of "I've heard the rumors about Boston and I feel compelled to say that I appreciate the thought, but I'm under contract with a great organization and so that's that".

I've seen him call this his 'dream job' and all and that's super, but I'd be pretty pissed if a guy under the same circumstances jumped ship from the Red Sox to the Yankees, and I imagine a lot of people here would be too.

If the Sox had a manager whose "dream job" was the Yankees, would you really want that guy managing the Red Sox? I sure as hell wouldn't.

[Oil Can Dan]

He couldn't jump ship. Had Toronto told Boston to go pound sand, Farrell wasn't going anywhere.

Remember, Toronto also put in a policy last year preventing employees from leaving to take lateral positions elsewhere, a provision that did not exist when they hired Farrell in the first place. That's kinda moving the goalposts on their part too.

I understand that ultimately it was Toronto's decision to make, but it's fairly obvious to me that he had the opportunity to decline interest in the Sox job, and once he didn't do that he telegraphed to Toronto that he would rather jump ship with a year left on his deal than to fulfill his commitment to them.

If the Sox had a manager whose "dream job" was the Yankees, would you really want that guy managing the Red Sox? I sure as hell wouldn't.

No, but it's semantics at best. My point is that he made a commitment to Toronto then when it was convenient for him to go elsewhere he did.

I don't think the guy should be drawn & quartered or anything, but I do think less of him for doing so and I think it speaks to his character on some level.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I understand that ultimately it was Toronto's decision to make, but it's fairly obvious to me that he had the opportunity to decline interest in the Sox job, and once he didn't do that he telegraphed to Toronto that he would rather jump ship with a year left on his deal than to fulfill his commitment to them.

Any manager in the last year of his deal is effectively lame duck anyway. I'm pretty sure Toronto was hardly shedding tears when Henry called Beeston to express interest in hiring Farrell.

Would you rather have had him be dishonest when asked? It was Toronto's call in every way. Had they wanted to keep hi, all they had to do was deny permission for Boston to talk to Farrell. And I'm sure Farrell would have tried his utmost to win in 2013 for Toronto despite all that.

[JimD]

I could be completely off-base here, but I really wonder if there was a less-than-optimal working relationship with Anthopoulos or something else going on in Toronto that soured Farrell. Sure, he had worked for the Red Sox organization for four years but in light of everything that happened a year ago to his good friend Terry Francona, why would he want to come back to Boston if he otherwise had a pretty good gig with the Jays?

[RingoOSU]

He probably could tell he wouldn't be the Jays manager in 2014.

[Rovin Romine]

Does it bother anyone else that Farrell bailed on Toronto with a year left on his deal? I consider standing by your commitments to be an honorable thing and he clearly didn't do that. Sure, Toronto worked out compensation and did the deal but it seems pretty clear to me that had Farrell come out initially and said something to the effect of "I've heard the rumors about Boston and I feel compelled to say that I appreciate the thought, but I'm under contract with a great organization and so that's that".

I've seen him call this his 'dream job' and all and that's super, but I'd be pretty pissed if a guy under the same circumstances jumped ship from the Red Sox to the Yankees, and I imagine a lot of people here would be too.

Well, he did exactly that around 10/12/2012.

“Well, I'm the manager of the Toronto Blue Jays. That's where I've been the last two years. That's where I currently am," said Farrell. "This speculation started to rear its head again, oh, probably the final two months of the season. I can tell you this -- in my conversations with Alex [Anthopoulos] it hasn't distracted me from my job and what the commitment there is. I'm extremely challenged, happy as manager of the Blue Jays. You know, but it's obvious that there's a vacancy to fill there and they're going about their interview process as it is with a couple of guys coming in there today and tomorrow, I guess. Nothing has been communicated directly to me. As far as if the Red Sox have contacted Alex, I'm unaware of that. So where it stands is what I said -- manager of the Blue Jays.”

[Red(s)HawksFan]

He probably could tell he wouldn't be the Jays manager in 2014.

I think it's most definitely this. Last winter, Anthopoulos aggressively blocked the Red Sox from talking to Farrell (not just saying no but instituting new policy), which despite any disappointment Farrell might have felt for the missed opportunity, it had to give him warm fuzzies that his GM wanted him to stay that badly.

Fast forward a year in which things did not go well for the team, Farrell is facing the final year of his deal and there apparently were no talks of an extension beyond 2013. The choice between being a lame duck or going with the team that wants him badly enough to part with a MLB player to get him seems a fairly easy one to make.

[Oil Can Dan]

Okay, I'm willing to believe that he may have figured he was a lame-duck and that there's likely many components to his status in Toronto that I'll never know about and that they likely played a part in it all. And, I hadn't seen that quote from 10/12.

Appreciate the thoughts and info.

[gammoseditor]

I think it's also worth pointing out that when Farrell signed his contract the Blue Jays they had a policy not to stop any current employees from interviewing for another job if they were interested. They then changed the policy to specifically prevent him from interviewing for another job he was interested in. It's crazy to me that now people in Toronto are questioning his character.

Edited by gammoseditor, 25 October 2012 - 03:09 PM.