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#2701 bsj


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:00 PM

One of the more surreal moments I can recall...review still ongoing, both teams and coaches doing the midfield walk, handshakes...

I am watching a lot of negativity toward the Pats on national tv right now. Yes, they struggled. But I thnk there is some value in finally winning one close after so many collapses.

Oh, and Tony, the Pats Lost in ugly fashion last week, the Jets won by 30. Most people who aren't talking heads knew this would be a game. Always is with these two.

Edited by bsj, 21 October 2012 - 09:01 PM.


#2702 Norm Siebern

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:06 PM

I agree with bsj.

I care more about the gigantic turds I shit out that rips the skin of my pie hole than I care about what the media, national or otherwise, say about the Patriots. A win today, win next week in Olde England, and then really start improving. I don't care what the Patriots do in the regular season anymore, as long as they make the playoffs. I'm tired of being the Manning Colts. Time to be on top in February, not October.

#2703 Harry Hooper


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:08 PM

Hey, Gronk made such an outrageous catch on that one TD that I figured I was dreaming.

#2704 bsj


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:10 PM

I agree with bsj.

I care more about the gigantic turds I shit out that rips the skin of my pie hole than I care about what the media, national or otherwise, say about the Patriots. A win today, win next week in Olde England, and then really start improving. I don't care what the Patriots do in the regular season anymore, as long as they make the playoffs. I'm tired of being the Manning Colts. Time to be on top in February, not October.

Agreed.

I am not pie in the sky. Lots today worries me. But to say its time to recalibrate expectations after a WIN is stupid. Last week I recalibrated. After the Cardinals game I recalibrated. Today, I exhaled.

#2705 E5 Yaz


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:13 PM

Agreed.

I am not pie in the sky. Lots today worries me. But to say its time to recalibrate expectations after a WIN is stupid. Last week I recalibrated. After the Cardinals game I recalibrated. Today, I exhaled.


Don Banks

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#2706 Mystic Merlin


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:16 PM

One of the more surreal moments I can recall...review still ongoing, both teams and coaches doing the midfield walk, handshakes...

I am watching a lot of negativity toward the Pats on national tv right now. Yes, they struggled. But I thnk there is some value in finally winning one close after so many collapses.

Oh, and Tony, the Pats Lost in ugly fashion last week, the Jets won by 30. Most people who aren't talking heads knew this would be a game. Always is with these two.


It follows the narrative, especially when in the next breath - with a different game - they'll talk about how X team (who fits X profile to them) won a 'tough divisional game', and, after all, those games are always tough. I didn't hear a word about the Giants almost losing to Washington, or how it revealed something about them - coming off their big win vs SF - that reflects on their team poorly or should result in an adjustment of expectations for them.

In other words, I couldn't give a shit what Tony Dungy says about the Patriots. And they will continue to not get credit for any close games they win, and destroyed for their 'lack of killer instinct' in close games they lose. Get used to it. Of course, their problems - and there are many - persist independent of the final outcome of these games, I would argue, but if you're going to beat a particular drum (the 'killer instinct'/do they get it done one), then be fair about it. Don't chalk up close wins as being the result of luck or complete ineptitude by the other side, and close losses as revealing horrible deficiencies and a lack of character or something, and expect to be taken seriously. Let's see some consistency. After all, if the Pats were like 6-1 (i.e., Ghost hit that kick and something broke their way vs SEA or BAL), would people feel all that much better about the current state of the team? No, I doubt it. Their problems would be the same, and close games will continue to be decided by a combination of luck and one team making 1-2 more timely plays than the other.

This was as far from a satisfying victory at it gets, but it was a division win. They held serve. No one's happy with how they're playing, to say the least, but I'm never going to feel badly about a divisional win in the NFL. And the hot air by the talking heads is just that - Dungy is an annoying motherfucker, but whatever, he bullshits for 20-30 minutes a week on TV. On a certain level, the league is about survival, especially at this point in the season. We all know that if multiple things don't improve (pass rush, CB/S play, 'explosion' (20+ yarders) plays allowed, red zone offense, the 4 minute drill on offense, time management), they will beat no one come January (because the contenders absolutely will improve in many areas by that point in time, you can't afford to stay in stasis or regress). But I'll be happy with 4-3 instead of 3-4, and I'll also be happy to give credit to a defense we all - myself included - shit on weekly for stoning an opponent to clinch a victory.

#2707 RedOctober3829


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

It follows the narrative, especially when in the next breath - with a different game - they'll talk about how X team (who fits X profile to them) won a 'tough divisional game', and, after all, those games are always tough. I didn't hear a word about the Giants almost losing to Washington, or how it revealed something about them - coming off their big win vs SF - that reflects on their team poorly or should result in an adjustment of expectations for them.

In other words, I couldn't give a shit what Tony Dungy says about the Patriots. And they will continue to not get credit for any close games they win, and destroyed for their 'lack of killer instinct' in close games they lose. Get used to it. Of course, their problems - and there are many - persist independent of the final outcome of these games, I would argue, but if you're going to beat a particular drum (the 'killer instinct'/do they get it done one), then be fair about it. Don't chalk up close wins as being the result of luck or complete ineptitude by the other side, and close losses as revealing horrible deficiencies and a lack of character or something, and expect to be taken seriously. Let's see some consistency. After all, if the Pats were like 6-1 (i.e., Ghost hit that kick and something broke their way vs SEA or BAL), would people feel all that much better about the current state of the team? No, I doubt it. Their problems would be the same, and close games will continue to be decided by a combination of luck and one team making 1-2 more timely plays than the other.

This was as far from a satisfying victory at it gets, but it was a division win. They held serve. No one's happy with how they're playing, to say the least, but I'm never going to feel badly about a divisional win in the NFL. And the hot air by the talking heads is just that - Dungy is an annoying motherfucker, but whatever, he bullshits for 20-30 minutes a week on TV. On a certain level, the league is about survival, especially at this point in the season. We all know that if multiple things don't improve (pass rush, CB/S play, 'explosion' (20+ yarders) plays allowed, red zone offense, the 4 minute drill on offense, time management), they will beat no one come January (because the contenders absolutely will improve in many areas by that point in time, you can't afford to stay in stasis or regress). But I'll be happy with 4-3 instead of 3-4, and I'll also be happy to give credit to a defense we all - myself included - shit on weekly for stoning an opponent to clinch a victory.


I love this post. 2007 ruined it for Patriots fans. You aren't going to blow people out every week simply because you are the Patriots. Like I said in another thread, you NEVER apologize for a win in the NFL especially in the division. Take the win, move on, and try to get better. It's an insanely competitive league and there will be more close games than blowouts. The more close games they play the better it is for them building towards the playoffs.

#2708 bsj


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:50 PM

Patriots are 1 game out of a 1st round bye, and Baltimore is reeling.

There are man ways to look at their current standing, that being one of them

Edited by bsj, 21 October 2012 - 09:51 PM.


#2709 bosox188

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:52 PM

I love this post. 2007 ruined it for Patriots fans. You aren't going to blow people out every week simply because you are the Patriots. Like I said in another thread, you NEVER apologize for a win in the NFL especially in the division. Take the win, move on, and try to get better. It's an insanely competitive league and there will be more close games than blowouts. The more close games they play the better it is for them building towards the playoffs.


Tom Curran on CSN: "They didn't make any progress today, except in the win column."

#2710 Ferm Sheller

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:52 PM

Patriots are 1 game out of a 1st round bye, and Baltimore is reeling.


How do you figure? Pats are 4-3 and Houston is 6-1.

And they're effectively 2 games behind Baltimore.

Edited by Ferm Sheller, 21 October 2012 - 09:54 PM.


#2711 PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:53 PM

How do you figure? Pats are 4-2 and Houston is 6-1.


There are two first round byes...

#2712 Ed Hillel


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:55 PM

Tom Curran on CSN: "They didn't make any progress today, except in the win column."


If this was 2003, you can bet your bottom dollar this is a "gritty comeback win, where the Pats fought back even when it seemed all hope was lost." 2007 turned Patriots fans into bitter Yankees fans.

#2713 Ferm Sheller

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:55 PM

There are two first round byes...


Yeah, but they're effectively 2 games behind Baltimore.

Edited by Ferm Sheller, 21 October 2012 - 09:55 PM.


#2714 RedOctober3829


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:02 PM

How do you figure? Pats are 4-3 and Houston is 6-1.

And they're effectively 2 games behind Baltimore.


Baltimore is without 2 of their key defensive players for the season and got dumptrucked today. It's not inconceivable they play the next 9 games 2 games worse than

#2715 Phragle


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:04 PM

Yeah, but they're effectively 2 games behind Baltimore.


1.5

#2716 Ferm Sheller

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:05 PM

Baltimore is without 2 of their key defensive players for the season and got dumptrucked today. It's not inconceivable they play the next 9 games 2 games worse than


Right, but bsj said that the Pats are 1 game out of a first round bye. That's not true. But I do agree with the premise that Baltimore has been weakened.

#2717 Ferm Sheller

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:06 PM

1.5


Ha! OK, technically you're right, but it's highly unlikely either of those teams will tie.

#2718 Salva135


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:49 PM

I agree with bsj.

I care more about the gigantic turds I shit out that rips the skin of my pie hole than I care about what the media, national or otherwise, say about the Patriots. A win today, win next week in Olde England, and then really start improving. I don't care what the Patriots do in the regular season anymore, as long as they make the playoffs. I'm tired of being the Manning Colts. Time to be on top in February, not October.


The Pats have been fellated by the media for years now, and it's led to nothing. I'm frankly pretty tired of getting our asses kissed while we fail to produce. I'd like some more media outlets to point out the ways in which we absolutely suck, it might be a good thing.

#2719 lars10

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:35 PM

The Pats have been fellated by the media for years now, and it's led to nothing. I'm frankly pretty tired of getting our asses kissed while we fail to produce. I'd like some more media outlets to point out the ways in which we absolutely suck, it might be a good thing.

Right..the boston media isn't negative enough!!

#2720 Andrew


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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:58 PM

I just want everyone to know that my family had a birthday dinner and cake for me tonight while we were watching the game and the cake came right after the Jets score from McCourty's fumble. As far as the "birthday candle wish" goes, lets just say I think this win was all me.

#2721 Stitch01


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 01:03 AM

The Pats have been fellated by the media for years now, and it's led to nothing. I'm frankly pretty tired of getting our asses kissed while we fail to produce. I'd like some more media outlets to point out the ways in which we absolutely suck, it might be a good thing.


Well, winning 29 games in two years and going to a Super Bowl will bring some occasional accolades.

#2722 Stitch01


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 01:18 AM

Also notice not a lot of posts tonight from stjohnmoron and that weatherman clown who coudnt properly predict the sun will rise tomorrow. Typical.

#2723 dcmissle


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

It follows the narrative, especially when in the next breath - with a different game - they'll talk about how X team (who fits X profile to them) won a 'tough divisional game', and, after all, those games are always tough. I didn't hear a word about the Giants almost losing to Washington, or how it revealed something about them - coming off their big win vs SF - that reflects on their team poorly or should result in an adjustment of expectations for them.


I think we sit in a pretty good spot, but the two games involving NY teams yesterday are apples and oranges.

Seven games into his NFL career, RGIII has a 70% completion percentage and presents a running threat equivalent to Vick in his prime. Despite losing two of their most important defenders, the Redskins are playing decent defensively -- though they have a secondary equivalent to the Pats'. The Reskins right now are better than the Jets, much better. RGIII is infinitely better than Sanchez already. And the Pats have no win of the quality of the Giants' road win at SF.

But if anyone wants to put the Pats and Giants in the same cubbyhole yesterday, more power to them. I'm sure it will make people feel better.

Edited by dcmissle, 22 October 2012 - 07:33 AM.


#2724 lostjumper

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:53 AM

It almost deserves it's own thread now, but Nantz is getting more and more obvious with his rooting against the Patriots. When McCourty fumbled, Nantz was gushing he was so excited. Then as the rest of the game went the Patriots way he became more stoic. On the last play of the game, it was an obvious fumble. The players and coaches from both teams knew right away, and even though it was under review they came out onto the field for the post game handshake. Nantz was so furious with the Jets for conceding defeat, and kept telling them to go back to their sideline because the play was going to get overturned. As he saw the replay he tried invoking the tuck rule repeatedly until Phil Simms told him it was one of the most obvious fumbles in the history of the game.

Nantz then began gushing about the "biggest underdog" and how the Jets had heroically fought the big bad patriots to an overtime and almost pulled out the most improbable win in the history of football. The slobberfest was funny because the Pats won, but its unusual for a national announcer to be so obvious in who he is rooting for.

#2725 FelixMantilla


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:27 AM

Glad to get the win. Pats are going to have to improve the defense a great deal in order to make any hay in the playoffs. So far they haven't shown much.

#2726 Andrew


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:59 AM

I didn't notice Nantz rooting at all. If anything, he was rooting for drama/the story, which makes sense for a national broadcaster.

#2727 Mystic Merlin


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:04 AM

I think we sit in a pretty good spot, but the two games involving NY teams yesterday are apples and oranges.

Seven games into his NFL career, RGIII has a 70% completion percentage and presents a running threat equivalent to Vick in his prime. Despite losing two of their most important defenders, the Redskins are playing decent defensively -- though they have a secondary equivalent to the Pats'. The Reskins right now are better than the Jets, much better. RGIII is infinitely better than Sanchez already. And the Pats have no win of the quality of the Giants' road win at SF.

But if anyone wants to put the Pats and Giants in the same cubbyhole yesterday, more power to them. I'm sure it will make people feel better.


If you thought I was comparing the Giants and Patriots, then I did a horrible job communicating my point. I was speaking to the arbitrary narratives the talking heads draw on, which usually come from the same place as legendary BS like 'the Chargers have the most talent in the league!!!11'. I picked the Giants because they also had a narrow escape (in a game they were losing with under 2 minutes to play) against a divisional opponent many considered to be markedly inferior. Now, whether the Redskins are all that much better than the Jets (and glancing at FO, they're not) is immaterial to me - the comment wasn't meant to start a far-reaching conversation about the Giants vs. the Patriots. I would say, though, that boiling it down to Sanchez vs. RG3 is facile, especially when you consider that the Jets have a top special teams unit, which the Pats exploited at points, not to mention that Rex Ryan is pretty good at rallying his teams when they're under fire. This is a long way of saying that the 'Skins and Jets are comparable in that neither are likely playoff teams, but both are tough, well-coached units that don't make a habit of laying down to divisional rivals. That's why I find the incredible gulf in the narratives ('ELI-te gets it done again!!!111 Clutch!' vs. 'Deeply flawed Pats skate by, time to adjust expectations') stupid.

#2728 Koufax

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:04 AM

Perhaps you missed the announcement, as soon as the final turnover was confirmed, that the Jets had won the game. If that doesn't tell you something, . . . .

#2729 BigSoxFan


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:43 AM

I didn't notice Nantz rooting at all. If anything, he was rooting for drama/the story, which makes sense for a national broadcaster.


Maybe you were watching on mute? Nantz always roots against the Pats, especially when they're going up against a Manning and/or NY team. Just listen to how he calls the big plays for the Pats vs. their opponent.

#2730 lostjumper

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:49 AM

I didn't notice Nantz rooting at all. If anything, he was rooting for drama/the story, which makes sense for a national broadcaster.


Really? It got so bad that the word 'Nantzgasm" was coined in the gamethread to refer to the gushing that came from Nantz every time something went in the Jets favor.

#2731 Andrew


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 12:33 PM

Gamethreads aren't really rational, though.

#2732 Mystic Merlin


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 12:38 PM

If we can't attack broadcasters in game threads, then the terrorists have won.

#2733 RedOctober3829


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 01:45 PM

I love this post. 2007 ruined it for Patriots fans. You aren't going to blow people out every week simply because you are the Patriots. Like I said in another thread, you NEVER apologize for a win in the NFL especially in the division. Take the win, move on, and try to get better. It's an insanely competitive league and there will be more close games than blowouts. The more close games they play the better it is for them building towards the playoffs.


On Monday, Brady made his weekly appearance on Boston's WEEI to discuss the the team's struggles to put away opponents.

“Well, we're trying to do it," he said via the Boston Herald. "I don't think you just flip a switch. I wish it were that easy, and maybe there were times when it did look that easy. Maybe we just spoiled some people in the meantime because it's hard to win, man. It's hard to win."


http://www.cbssports...led-some-people

#2734 TheoShmeo


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:12 PM

If this was 2003, you can bet your bottom dollar this is a "gritty comeback win, where the Pats fought back even when it seemed all hope was lost." 2007 turned Patriots fans into bitter Yankees fans.

I dunno about that.

While I agree with the general sentiments expressed by MM and Red (and others), the fact of the matter is that there have been some warning signs in these games.

The Pats have been outscored in the last three 4th quarters by a score of 34-6. That's a dangerous way to play football.

We've also seen the Pats cough up 10 point leads and not get first downs or sustain drives in 4th quarters when doing so would have won games.

My view is that the Pats lost Super Bowl 46 in large part because the offense couldn't close the game out at the end, and when I see that trend continue in 2012, I get concerned. Feeling less positive than usual about this win in that light, and in light of what happened in Seattle and against Baltimore, hardly makes me or anyone else so inclined a spoiled fan.

#2735 PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:31 PM

There have been a few stories today about the Nantz "Jets win" end of game call.

Here is one:

http://www.sbnation....-jets-game-call

#2736 soxhop411


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

People are complaining that the clock stopped after the fumble on the kickoff.


Manish Mehta @MMehtaNYDN
NFL did examine clock operator issue on kickoff with 2:06 left in regulation of Jets-Pats +found there was no improper handling of clock

Edited by soxhop411, 22 October 2012 - 03:13 PM.


#2737 Turrable

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:29 PM

There was a whole thread on TGG complaining that Hernandez's fumble shouldn't have been overturned because BB threw the challenge flag when turnovers are automatic booth reviews. Pretty funny shit.

I don't think Nantz always roots against us. In a game with an underdog storming back like that, most national announcers would be creaming their jeans too.

#2738 Wilco's Last Fan

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:58 PM

There have been a few stories today about the Nantz "Jets win" end of game call.

Here is one:

http://www.sbnation....-jets-game-call


That whole "stunner" and "biggest underdog of the day" line was what really threw me. I get mixing up the team names (though it's a funny Freudian slip) but the whole stunning upset slant was really strange—like he was launching into an entirely different narrative than the one that actually transpired on the field.

#2739 bsj


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:16 PM

The line was fucking stupid anyway.

This team had just blown a game to goddamn Russell Wilson. The Jets won by 30 last week. The game was a 3 pointer, not a 9 pointer.