377 replies to this topic

[Lack_of_Imagination]

Brady really pissed me off. I don't get the anger at the secondary -- you're starting 2 rookie safeties, you're gonna get burned. Your all-world QB is supposed to be better than what he showed -- just pathetic.



Yep, the hysteria here is ridiculous. I get being pissed, but the Pats are really good this year and so long as Lloyd is healthy better than last year. There will be bumps....there will be hysteria...there will be SJH proclaiming that the sky is falling. With all that, anyone who says the Pats aren't a clear favorite to win the AFC east is on drugs.

Ah yeah but who gives a FUCK. its about SBs, long overdue SBs, window fucking closing SBs. And watching the shit thats unfolded this year hard to think we're rasing another banner next year. Just dont have the horses in the seconday and offensively O - line? I just dont know but cannot close out the game either

[Ed Hillel]

They are 3-3, they are playing horseshit football, their secondary can't stop anyone, the play calling is atrocious. I wouldn't be shocked if they lose to the Jets next week.

It's one of the best offenses we've seen, and they just played in the most hostile atmosphere in football against one of the best defenses in football. You sound like a Jets fan.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 14 October 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[jsinger121]

The secondary has been shit for five years, and the only rookie in the secondary that started today was Wilson. At what point are we allowed to call out the secondary? Brady was average today, maybe even above if you consider the defense they were playing. The team has to be able to find a way to win when he doesn't play a great game.

They certainly deserve it and so does BB for putting this crap unit together. They need to pay for some better fucking players back there. I was pissed a few years ago when Eric Weddle was a free agent. He is someone who could have fucking helped this secondary big time.

[Ed Hillel]

Ah yeah but who gives a FUCK. its about SBs, long overdue SBs, window fucking closing SBs. And watching the shit thats unfolded this year hard to think we're rasing another banner next year. Just dont have the horses in the seconday and offensively O - line? I just dont know but cannot close out the game either

Wowza.

And the O-line? Really?

[Turrable]

Ah yeah but who gives a FUCK. its about SBs, long overdue SBs, window fucking closing SBs. And watching the shit thats unfolded this year hard to think we're rasing another banner next year. Just dont have the horses in the seconday and offensively O - line? I just dont know but cannot close out the game either

Considering how the Giants stumbled ass-backwards into it last year...

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

It's one of the best offenses we've seen, and they just played in the most hostile atmosphere in football against one of the best defenses in football. You sound like a Jets fan.

The play calling was awful today. You cannot honestly deny it.

Seattle's stadium advantage is horrendously overblown and I'm fucking tired of hearing about it. They're something like 52-30 over the last 5 or 6 years there. The Pats' record at home over the same time is much, much better.

Can any really argue the Pats have shown they're a good team this year? They have not.

[Ed Hillel]

They certainly deserve it and so does BB for putting this crap unit together. They need to pay for some better fucking players back there. I was pissed a few years ago when Eric Weddle was a free agent. He is someone who could have fucking helped this secondary big time.

Or even a guy like Landry. He was on a one-year contract, and we had the cap space. Overpay him by a couple million for a year.

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

It's one of the best offenses we've seen, and they just played in the most hostile atmosphere in football against one of the best defensesfootball. You sound like a Jets fan.

Blame Schotty!

No really there were not major issues with the play calling today. Maybe a handful cod have been different but that's true of every game. The offense moves the ball against a tough defense in poor conditions on the road. I don't get the people calling out the play calling when they were 1 of 2 Brady plays from winning.

[Mystic Merlin]

Ah yeah but who gives a FUCK. its about SBs, long overdue SBs, window fucking closing SBs. And watching the shit thats unfolded this year hard to think we're rasing another banner next year. Just dont have the horses in the seconday and offensively O - line? I just dont know but cannot close out the game either

It'd be great if people could tantrum outside of this subforum, like an adult. Make a topical point, or fuck off. This post is a stream-of-consciousness turd, and it makes it plenty easy for the morons who engage in drive-by attacks on this subforum to do so.

[Salva135]

They will have to do it a different way this time, almost certainly. We're 6 games in, and they effectively trail Baltimore by 3. Could trail Houston by 3 at the end of tonight. Top 2 seeds are likely gone.

What hurts is that this is a down year for Pitts, Indy has been torn to the ground, Den has not jelled, SD is SD, and this is the worst Baltimore defense I have seen in 15 years and Webb went down for the season today). Only Houston looks all around strong.

This is probably as weak an AFC since Brady and Manning were kids.

That's really my point. Maybe I should clarify further, this time is vulnerable to drop more unanticipated games this year than usual. Suggesting that the AFC East is competitive with all 4 teams at 3-3? Really? This board still thinks the Pats are going to close out every game against every weaker opponent.

[Tony C]

They are 3-3, they are playing horseshit football, their secondary can't stop anyone, the play calling is atrocious. I wouldn't be shocked if they lose to the Jets next week.

They are in big fucking trouble. It's beyond time people stop gilding the lily around here. They are playing awful football. Not a single aspect of the team today played well. Not a single aspect of the team seems to be getting better week to week.

Given your track record of proclaiming the Pats to be in big trouble and the Pats doing just fine, you'll forgive me if I ignore your wails.

The secondary has been shit for five years, and the only rookie in the secondary that started today was Wilson. At what point are we allowed to call out the secondary? Brady was average today, maybe even above if you consider the defense they were playing. The team has to be able to find a way to win when he doesn't play a great game.

Oh, don't get me wrong -- the secondary has issues. At what point are we allowed to call out the secondary is a silly statement -- they've been called out regularly and quite justly. I was just saying that this secondary starts as a weak link, the safeties in particular. When you lose your two starting safeties (Chung started but was injured) and replace them with rookies, getting burned isn't a surprise. Brady fucking up time and again, however, really pisses me off because we have a right to expect better.

I do think the point about him going to shit after the big hit has some truth. In that sense similar to the last Super Bowl.

[lexrageorge]

Brady really pissed me off. I don't get the anger at the secondary -- you're starting 2 rookie safeties, you're gonna get burned. Your all-world QB is supposed to be better than what he showed -- just pathetic.



Yep, the hysteria here is ridiculous. I get being pissed, but the Pats are really good this year and so long as Lloyd is healthy better than last year. There will be bumps....there will be hysteria...there will be SJH proclaiming that the sky is falling. With all that, anyone who says the Pats aren't a clear favorite to win the AFC east is on drugs.

Rookie safeties or not, there's no excuse for giving up the 46 yard bomb with less than 2 minutes to go.

[Lack_of_Imagination]

It'd be great if people could tantrum outside of this subforum, like an adult. Make a topical point, or fuck off. This post is a stream-of-consciousness turd, and it makes it plenty easy for the morons who engage in drive-by attacks on this subforum to do so.

Fair point et al. Moron? Hardly but post came off as such fucking off now

[Salva135]

Blame Schotty!

No really there were not major issues with the play calling today. Maybe a handful cod have been different but that's true of every game. The offense moves the ball against a tough defense in poor conditions on the road. I don't get the people calling out the play calling when they were 1 of 2 Brady plays from winning.

Do you really think McDaniels had a good game when it came to the redzone and clock management? They moved the ball extremely well until they saw the endzone and they shat all over themselves multiple times.


PS. I know this is all an overreaction thread, I would love to see someone break down the all-22 tape and figure out exactly what went wrong.

Edited by Salva135, 14 October 2012 - 07:37 PM.

[OldSaintJohn]

It's one of the best offenses we've seen, and they just played in the most hostile atmosphere in football against one of the best defenses in football. You sound like a Jets fan.

The play-calling itself isn't that bad obviously as they're still scoring points. It's the situational play-calling that is absolutely abysmal and pretty much has been since McDaniels v 2.0 has returned.

This current coaching staff has proven they do not have what it takes to win close games. What it stems from, who knows, but that's where they're at right now.

[Ed Hillel]

Oh, don't get me wrong -- the secondary has issues. At what point are we allowed to call out the secondary is a silly statement -- they've been called out regularly and quite justly. I was just saying that this secondary starts as a weak link, the safeties in particular. When you lose your two starting safeties (Chung started but was injured) and replace them with rookies, getting burned isn't a surprise. Brady fucking up time and again, however, really pisses me off because we have a right to expect better.

You're excusing the secondary for being bad because they're bad. I'm not sure what to make of that. Brady can't be great every week. Nobody can, especially when you're asked to throw sixty times in that environment against that defense. What we can reasonably expect is some improvement from a unit that has consistently been among the worst units in football for half a decade.

Chung was fucking awful when he was in the game, too, fwiw. He's not even average, unfortunately, and I had much higher expectations of him his rookie year.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

You're excusing the secondary for being bad because they're bad. I'm not sure what to make of that. Brady can't be great every week. Nobody can, especially when you're asked to throw sixty times in that environment against that defense. What we can reasonably expect is some improvement from a unit that has consistently been among the worst units in football for half a decade.

Chung was fucking awful when he was in the game, too, fwiw. He's not even average, unfortunately, and I had much higher expectations of him his rookie year.

Chung is yet another guy who's regressed after a promising rookie season. It's a long pattern here.

[Soxy Brown]

I'm beyond angry. I'm off to drink and cool down. Today was a fucking disaster.

Probably a good idea. As was stated up-thread, they've lost 3 games by a total of 4 points to teams that have a combined record of 13-5. You're completely overreacting to a frustrating loss.

Are they perfect? Hell no. Every team has flaws and this team is no different. But for a team that you think is playing "mediocre football," they would be 6-0 if you changed all of 3 plays. Hell, if Gostkowski doesn't go to shanktown against Arizona, they're 4-2 and in first place.

Now, the obvious retort is that those plays did happen and Gostkowski did miss that FG, but my point is that they've played well enough to win every single game that they've played. That would seem to imply that they are, in fact, a pretty good football team.

They'll probably be fine. Losing these games sucks and makes the margin for error finer going forward, but it's not like the AFC East is filled with world beaters. Beat the Jets next week, then go stomp the Rams in St. Louis, go into the bye week 5-3. The second half of the schedule is pretty favorable, with the two toughest games (Texans, 49ers) coming at home.

[twibnotes]

Beating Buffalo b y a bazillion points while puking over their shoes every time they're in a close game would do that.

I'm beyond angry. I'm off to drink and cool down. Today was a fucking disaster.

I share the anger. Just think defensive ineptitude, particularly the secondary, is the lone issue (albeit a big one). Brady and the offense should be allowed to have a so so game and still win once in a great while.

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Do you really think McDaniels had a good game when it came to the redzone and clock

management? They moved the ball extremely well until they saw the endzone and they shat all over themselves multiple times.

PS. I know this is all an overreaction thread, I would love to see someone break down the all-22 tape and figure out exactly what went wrong.

Complaining about NFL play calling is the laziest dumbest type of complaining you can do. There is so much about each play call that you will never know. Did Brady change a play at the line? Did the defense shift an change an option route into something less favorable? Was it a fantastic call and a defender made a ridiculous play? Did an OL trip and let a perfect play get blown up?

It's a waste of time. Now I'm not saying you should never comain about an OC. When things are obviously bad, like if they threw 50+ times against a dime package, then yes complain all you want.

When it's not obviously bad then just shut up, you'll soun like you don't know what you are talking about an look like an idiot. Like Jets fans that use to scream about Schotty.

Edited by ( . ) ( . ) and (_!_), 14 October 2012 - 07:44 PM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Probably a good idea. As was stated up-thread, they've lost 3 games by a total of 4 points to teams that have a combined record of 13-5. You're completely overreacting to a frustrating loss.

Are they perfect? Hell no. Every team has flaws and this team is no different. But for a team that you think is playing "mediocre football," they would be 6-0 if you changed all of 3 plays. Hell, if Gostkowski doesn't go to shanktown against Arizona, they're 4-2 and in first place.

Now, the obvious retort is that those plays did happen and Gostkowski did miss that FG, but my point is that they've played well enough to win every single game that they've played. That would seem to imply that they are, in fact, a pretty good football team.

They'll probably be fine. Losing these games sucks and makes the margin for error finer going forward, but it's not like the AFC East is filled with world beaters. Beat the Jets next week, then go stomp the Rams in St. Louis, go into the bye week 5-3. The second half of the schedule is pretty favorable, with the two toughest games (Texans, 49ers) coming at home.

We'll see. I'm not sure there's any game that we can point to and think it's going to be a piece of cake.

We've got a billion-page long thread laughing at the ineptitude of the Jets, but as of this moment the teams are tied. Not a promising sign.

[Janeyjane17]

I'm mixed on how much to fault McDaniels on this one. The team couldn't do shit on the ground today, no small surprise given that Seattle's defense is pretty fantastic. The gameplan warranted all that passing. I have little problem with throwing 58 passes (or going for it on 3rd and 1 at the end of the half) against this team.

Yet JMD's most glaring mistake imo was trying to run it with Ridley on second down (after getting stuffed on first) on the second to last drive of the game where we badly needed a first, burning two Seahawk timeouts but setting up a do or die 3rd and 8. At some point you have to play to your strengths and try to win with your offense. Seattle getting the ball back with 2 minutes on the clock needing 6 to win left this secondary pretty screwed regardless of how many timeouts Pete had available. This team seems to get conservative at the worst possible times, and if I had to fault McDaniels today, this is where he hurt us.

This. Play for the win, not to run out the clock. Particularly if the running game has made little progress all night, so running it two times is unlikely to gain the first down, or put you in favorable position on 3rd down. It's weird - sometimes the Patriots are uber-risky in their play calls to win (going for it on 4th downs to close out the game), but other times they lack the killer instinct. It's just weird to see such differing dynamics, but it probably can be boiled down to BB versus JMD making the playcalls. BB decides whether to go for it, but not what to call on 1st or 2nd down. I'd like to see more consistency between the two.

[twibnotes]

Chung is yet another guy who's regressed after a promising rookie season. It's a long pattern here.

So true about the pattern...Chung is horrendous back there in pass coverage.

[Ed Hillel]

This. Play for the win, not to run out the clock. Particularly if the running game has made little progress all night, so running it two times is unlikely to gain the first down, or put you in favorable position on 3rd down. It's weird - sometimes the Patriots are uber-risky in their play calls to win (going for it on 4th downs to close out the game), but other times they lack the killer instinct. It's just weird to see such differing dynamics, but it probably can be boiled down to BB versus JMD making the playcalls. BB decides whether to go for it, but not what to call on 1st or 2nd down. I'd like to see more consistency between the two.

Here's the thing. If the Pats don't run twice, and don't execute, people will bitch about them not running the ball, so if the players don't execute it's a catch-22.

The biggest issue I have with the offense is that it is painfully obvious when they are going to run and when they are going to pass. Now, I won't get too upset about it, because they have a juggernaut of an offense. But I do think that there are times where it would really serve them better to mix it up a bit more. I'm not sure I ever see a reason to be running five wide on a third and two, for instance.

So true about the pattern...Chung is horrendous back there in pass coverage.

Other than McCourty, who I think we can all agree performed unreasonably well his first year, and Chung, who was never really that great to begin with, there aren't many others, are there?

I still think McCourty is a pretty average corner, given all that he's asked to do. It would be nice to see him play with some competent help behind him. Dennard looks fine so far to me, as well. A positive of today's game was Arrington getting relegated to nickel. I think Dennard has "won" the position at this point.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 14 October 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[Soxy Brown]

We'll see. I'm not sure there's any game that we can point to and think it's going to be a piece of cake.

We've got a billion-page long thread laughing at the ineptitude of the Jets, but as of this moment the teams are tied. Not a promising sign.

Yeah, that's the depressing part. Pats should have a strangle-hold on this division, but they're keeping everyone else in it. Jets and Bills have been Jekylls and Hydes, so who knows what to expect from them going forward. The Dolphins might be the team to worry about. Two of their three losses were in OT, and the third was opening day in Houston. None of their wins are particularly impressive, though.

The season will probably hinge on the four week stretch from Weeks 12-15. Back-to-back road games against the Jets and Fins, then home games against Houston and the Niners. They really shouldn't lose any of the other games on the schedule.

[twibnotes]

Here's the thing. If the Pats don't run twice, and don't execute, people will bitch about them not running the ball, so if the players don't execute it's a catch-22.

The biggest issue I have with the offense is that it is painfully obvious when they are going to run and when they are going to pass. Now, I won't get too upset about it, because they have a juggernaut of an offense. But I do think that there are times where it would really serve them better to mix it up a bit more. I'm not sure I ever see a reason to be running five wide on a third and two, for instance.

Would be nice to see more playaction and screens.

[Salva135]

Complaining about NFL play calling is the laziest dumbest type of complaining you can do. There is so much about each play call that you will never know. Did Brady change a play at the line? Did the defense shift an change an option route into something less favorable? Was it a fantastic call and a defender made a ridiculous play? Did an OL trip and let a perfect play get blown up?

It's a waste of time. Now I'm not saying you should never comain about an OC. When things are obviously bad, like if they threw 50+ times against a dime package, then yes complain all you want.

When it's not obviously bad then just shut up, you'll soun like you don't know what you are talking about an look like an idiot. Like Jets fans that use to scream about Schotty.

Well, none of us knows who is in control in that crucial moment of the game. The OC has direct access to Brady's headset, he can call for a timeout whenever he wants. The Pats had one of the worst red zone trips I have seen in a long time, we all laugh at the Eagles or Chargers for that kind of fuck up. Blame Brady or McD, or both. Doesn't really matter.

[drleather2001]

I've resigned myself to the fact that they are going to probably go 10-6.

At the very least, if they are healthy come the playoffs, they will be that 4th/5th seed that nobody wants to draw.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yeah, that's the depressing part. Pats should have a strangle-hold on this division, but they're keeping everyone else in it. Jets and Bills have been Jekylls and Hydes, so who knows what to expect from them going forward. The Dolphins might be the team to worry about. Two of their three losses were in OT, and the third was opening day in Houston. None of their wins are particularly impressive, though.

The season will probably hinge on the four week stretch from Weeks 12-15. Back-to-back road games against the Jets and Fins, then home games against Houston and the Niners. They really shouldn't lose any of the other games on the schedule.

I think given the way the season is going, we have no real right to be saying this. They certainly appear to be capable of losing any game on the schedule. If the Arizona game didn't prove that point, today's game certainly did. Hell, even truly great teams like the 2004 Pats had a stinker (the Miami game), and this team is nowhere near the quality of that one.

[Mystic Merlin]

We'll see. I'm not sure there's any game that we can point to and think it's going to be a piece of cake.

We've got a billion-page long thread laughing at the ineptitude of the Jets, but as of this moment the teams are tied. Not a promising sign.

Well, that fact alone is not 'promising', no.

But I think your first sentence - rather than an indictment on the quality of the team - should be a reminder that 'piece of cake' games do not exist in the NFL. Ask Houston or Baltimore about it - BAL had a close call with the Browns, and the Texans with the Jets this past Monday. There are few truly shitty teams.

EDIT - People laugh at Belichick and Brady constantly harping on this, as if they're being disingenuous, but year-after-year and week-after-week we see it play out that way.

Edited by Mystic Merlin, 14 October 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[Ed Hillel]

Well, none of us knows who is in control in that crucial moment of the game. The OC has direct access to Brady's headset, he can call for a timeout whenever he wants. The Pats had one of the worst red zone trips I have seen in a long time, we all laugh at the Eagles or Chargers for that kind of fuck up. Blame Brady or McD, or both. Doesn't really matter.

Why on Earth would anyone blame McDaniels for the time mismanagement? Tom knew the situation and just fucked it up. I can't explain why he did or what he was doing, but he fucked it up. We really shouldn't fear leaving Seattle with twenty seconds, even with our defense. Tom knows that now, he knew it then, but he just didn't execute. Blaming McDaniels for that mess is really, really grasping at straws.

I think given the way the season is going, we have no real right to be saying this. They certainly appear to be capable of losing any game on the schedule. If the Arizona game didn't prove that point, today's game certainly did. Hell, even truly great teams like the 2004 Pats had a stinker (the Miami game), and this team is nowhere near the quality of that one.

Please don't compare the 2004 Miami Dolphins to the 2012 Seattle Seahawks.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 14 October 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Please don't compare the 2004 Miami Dolphins to the 2012 Seattle Seahawks.

The point was to shoot down the idea that the Pats "should" win a certain number of remaining games. We can't say that for certain at all given the way the team is playing and the way the season's gone. A far better team than this one gakked away a game against a worse opponent.

[riboflav]

Geez... the worse thing this franchise did was go 16-0 and then lose the Super Bowl. At least, if they had won the SB, I could put up with all the stupid drama over a team that admittedly is flawed but is still clearly among the upper echelon. They're 3-3 and may go 11-5, maybe 10-6. Is that really worth all this crying?

[Franklin Fanatic]

It is worth noting our three collapses happened against three rather strong defenses. That should be considered as well.

Unfortunately, there are good defenses once you get into the playoffs.

[Soxy Brown]

I think given the way the season is going, we have no real right to be saying this. They certainly appear to be capable of losing any game on the schedule. If the Arizona game didn't prove that point, today's game certainly did. Hell, even truly great teams like the 2004 Pats had a stinker (the Miami game), and this team is nowhere near the quality of that one.

Oh, absolutely. That's why I said "shouldn't." As in, they should win those other games. Doesn't mean that they will, obviously, but the only road games are against St. Louis and Jacksonville. The home games consist of the divisional foes and the Colts. There's no reason why the Pats can't win all of those games. I mean, if they keep losing games in which they're favored, then it won't really matter and you will be proven right. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

If they can go 3-1 during that tough four week stretch mentioned above, then they should be in good shape. That means they could drop one or two of the other games and still be 11-5 or 10-6, which should put them in playoff contention.

[Ed Hillel]

Unfortunately, there are good defenses once you get into the playoffs.

How many defenses in the AFC scare you right now? Houston is the best I can think of from potential playoff teams and they just lost their second or third best player for the year on that squad. I think Brady could put up 30 on them pretty easily, honestly.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

How many defenses in the AFC scare you right now? Houston is the best I can think of from potential playoff teams and they just lost their second or third best player for the year on that squad. I think Brady could put up 30 on them pretty easily, honestly.

New England's.

[Mystic Merlin]

Geez... the worse thing this franchise did was go 16-0 and then lose the Super Bowl. At least, if they had won the SB, I could put up with all the stupid drama over a team that admittedly is flawed but is still clearly among the upper echelon. They're 3-3 and may go 11-5, maybe 10-6. Is that really worth all this crying?

I'm not sure this is a productive post. I mean, no, we don't expect undefeated, record-setting seasons; but when the team consistently wins 12+ games, and usually with great situational play and a minimum of mental errors, then expectations will adjust accordingly. They've got an all-world QB, so we expect him to play like one; we have an all-world coach, so we expect the play of his teams to reflect that. When the damn team is 3-3 (albeit by a total of 4 points in the losses), it's not unreasonable to ask what the hell is happening. The team is erratic right now, and that would be the case even if they were 6-0, I maintain. It's the WAY they've played, not just the record, and we're looking at the landscape of the league and wondering what they need to do - and how - to put themselves in position to contend for the Lombardi. I don't think anyone's ready to jump off a cliff, so I think you're attacking ghosts a bit. I do think people are unsettled by their Jekyll and Hyde nature, as well as the fact they've lost three close games in three attempts.

If we're going to bash Norv Turner and the Bolts for it every year, then it's only fair to ask the same questions of Belichick and the Pats.

[jtn46]

In fairness to the offense, they're trying to fix it. McDaniels has done a nice job this season of building up the running game so they can run out a clock and tire out a defense when they need to. It's bad luck that in the midst of this effort they run into a fantastic run defense. I would have liked to have seen them let Woodhead run it late rather than just have him there as a check down option on passing plays.


With the defense, It's frustrating that they have an awesome run defense, they seem to have the personnel to scheme against short and intermediate passes, but can't reliably get to the QB and the safeties are so godawful in coverage that their strengths force teams to exploit their weaknesses where they have no answers. It would almost be better to be a little worse against the run so teams didn't give up on it.

Is this intentional? Is it a moneyball thing where run defenders are a more efficient investment than pass rushers and defensive backs? Is it just bad breaks where the pass rush and db personnel they have just haven't developed?

[riboflav]

I'm not sure this is a productive post. I mean, no, we don't expect undefeated, record-setting seasons; but when the team consistently wins 12+ games, and usually with great situational play and a minimum of mental errors, then expectations will adjust accordingly. They've got an all-world QB, so we expect him to play like one; we have an all-world coach, so we expect the play of his teams to reflect that. When the damn team is 3-3 (albeit by a total of 4 points in the losses), it's not unreasonable to ask what the hell is happening. The team is erratic right now, and that would be the case even if they were 6-0, I maintain. It's the WAY they've played, not just the record, and we're looking at the landscape of the league and wondering what they need to do - and how - to put themselves in position to contend for the Lombardi. I don't think anyone's ready to jump off a cliff, so I think you're attacking ghosts a bit. I do think people are unsettled by their Jekyll and Hyde nature, as well as the fact they've lost three close games in three attempts.

If we're going to bash Norv Turner and the Bolts for it every year, then it's only fair to ask the same questions of Belichick and the Pats.

I agree questions should be asked as I'm sure that BB and his staff are undergoing a similar process right now. But, much of this thread is more about panic than analysis and strange conclusions like they're not a good football team. Whatever. Carry on.

[twibnotes]

In fairness to the offense, they're trying to fix it. McDaniels has done a nice job this season of building up the running game so they can run out a clock and tire out a defense when they need to. It's bad luck that in the midst of this effort they run into a fantastic run defense. I would have liked to have seen them let Woodhead run it late rather than just have him there as a check down option on passing plays.


With the defense, It's frustrating that they have an awesome run defense, they seem to have the personnel to scheme against short and intermediate passes, but can't reliably get to the QB and the safeties are so godawful in coverage that their strengths force teams to exploit their weaknesses where they have no answers. It would almost be better to be a little worse against the run so teams didn't give up on it.

Is this intentional? Is it a moneyball thing where run defenders are a more efficient investment than pass rushers and defensive backs? Is it just bad breaks where the pass rush and db personnel they have just haven't developed?

Occam's razor: they've drafted the wrong corners and safeties and haven't developed them well at all

[amarshal2]

They can't continue to play with their heads up their asses for long stretches of the game/4th quarter. It's maddening. Seems about as likely they finish 12-4 as 9-7. I can't figure this team out.

[gmogmo]

Or even a guy like Landry. He was on a one-year contract, and we had the cap space. Overpay him by a couple million for a year.

Is Landry even having a good year for the Jets?

[Stitch01]

Remaining road games are @ Miami, @ NYJ, @Jac, vs SL in London. Id still be shocked if they don't go at least 10-6, pretty surprised if they don't go 11-5.

[Franklin Fanatic]

How many defenses in the AFC scare you right now? Houston is the best I can think of from potential playoff teams and they just lost their second or third best player for the year on that squad. I think Brady could put up 30 on them pretty easily, honestly.

And Houston's offense could put up 40 against the Pats. Overall, too many breakdowns on both sides of the ball. The pick in the end zone was bad, but the decision making by Brady on the seam route to Branch was awful.

[Ed Hillel]

And Houston's offense could put up 40 against the Pats. Overall, too many breakdowns on both sides of the ball. The pick in the end zone was bad, but the decision making by Brady on the seam route to Branch was awful.

Ok, but that wasn't your point.

Is Landry even having a good year for the Jets?

Seems to be doing well to me, but it's not something that's easily measured. Still, if we're talking about Steven Gregory as an alternative?

Edited by Ed Hillel, 14 October 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[Janeyjane17]

Here's the thing. If the Pats don't run twice, and don't execute, people will bitch about them not running the ball, so if the players don't execute it's a catch-22.

Normally I'd agree. In this case, you are going up against a premier run defense and Ridley hadn't done anything. Running him doesn't seem like the smart call. If Bolden were available, I would have been cool with the call because he had made some positive gains. Likewise, Woodhead had had some success, plus it forces the defense to at least think about pass versus going all in on run because he's a legit pass catcher. But Ridley?

[ShaneTrot]

The big failure today that scares me is the long completions allowed. They have consistently made other teams earn points by long drives. Today that gave up huge chunks of yardage in single plays.

[bowiac]

I think people are underappreciating how difficult it is to defend the deep pass in the league these days. The Patriots are bad at it, but I don't get the sense their struggles are somehow otherworldly. The Giants just last year won the Super Bowl with a pretty incompetent pass defense, in particular vulnerable to the long completion.

That's modern football.

[Jack Sox]

The big failure today that scares me is the long completions allowed. They have consistently made other teams earn points by long drives. Today that gave up huge chunks of yardage in single plays.

@shalisemyoung: the #Patriots gave up 6 passes of 20+ yards today - all of them on #Seahawks scoring drives

That's really the crux of this loss.