98 replies to this topic

[norm from cheers]

A major league source confirmed multiple reports out of Japan that the Red Sox (who were represented by international scouting director Eddie Romero and Pacific Rim coordinator Jon Deeble) met with Japanese high school phenom Shohei Otani on Thursday. Otani has met with all 12 teams in the NPB and with at least a few major league teams while trying to decide whether to pursue pro ball in Japan or the US. The 18-year-old right-hander has been clocked at 100 mph (in this video, where the crowd erupts when he hits 159 kmph and then 160 kmph).
The Dodgers and Rangers have also met with Otani, according to multiple reports.

For some reason I was under the impression there was a "gentleman's agreement" to leave prospects alone that NPB teams had interest in.

http://www.weei.com/...se-phenom-otani

Edit: cleaned up my initial cut and paste..

Edited by norm from cheers, 11 October 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[soxhop411]

Seems like someone the sox should target.. Allthough someone throwing that hard at that young an age would have arm/elbow troubles down the line right?

Edited by soxhop411, 11 October 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[gammoseditor]

A major league source confirmed multiple reports out of Japan that the Red Sox (who were represented by international scouting director Eddie Romero and Pacific Rim coordinator Jon Deeble) met with Japanese high school phenom Shohei Otani on Thursday. Otani has met with all 12 teams in the NPB and with at least a few major league teams while trying to decide whether to pursue pro ball in Japan or the US. The 18-year-old right-hander has been clocked at 100 mph (in this video, where the crowd erupts when he hits 159 kmph and then 160 kmph).
The Dodgers and Rangers have also met with Otani, according to multiple reports.

For some reason I was under the impression there was a "gentleman's agreement" to leave prospects alone that NPB teams had interest in.

http://www.weei.com/...se-phenom-otani

Edit: cleaned up my initial cut and paste..

I'm confused by the bolded as well. Didn't another major league team try and sign a Japanese high schooler last year and had the deal void?

[soxhop411]

I'm confused by the bolded as well. Didn't another major league team try and sign a Japanese high schooler last year and had the deal void?

That was Baltimore, But I think that was a korean pitcher

Edit:
http://mlb.sbnation....t-seong-min-kim

Edited by soxhop411, 11 October 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Orel Miraculous]

For some reason I was under the impression there was a "gentleman's agreement" to leave prospects alone that NPB teams had interest in.

Apparently Bobby V isn't the only one who forgets about Junichi Tazawa.

[collings94]

Because you can't go wrong with Japanese pitchers.

[SydneySox]

Indeed.

Here's an article from 2008 about Tazawa.

http://www.nytimes.c...tcher.html?_r=1

That's from when it was happening. Wiki says there were changes made subsequently:

In September 2008, Tazawa announced his intention to skip the NPB draft in and to pursue a career with a Major League team.^[4] During the 2008 season, his manager Hideaki Okubo encouraged him to attempt a career in Major League Baseball without first playing with a Nippon Professional Baseball team. Had Tazawa joined a Japanese professional team, he would have had to either wait nine years to become a free agent, or to hope that his team auction the right to negotiate with him through the posting system.^[1]
To avoid conflict between Japanese and U.S. teams, Tazawa asked NPB teams not to select him in the October 30 draft, and the 12 teams complied with the request. However, the teams passed a rule requiring any amateur player who signs overseas to sit out two to three years before he can join a Japanese team; high school players would have to sit two years, while college and corporate players three years.

It's wiki and I can't see any links to that info but it's a good baseline.

[SouthernBoSox]

Seems like someone the sox should target.. Allthough someone throwing that hard at that young an age would have arm/elbow troubles down the line right?

the more I study baseball the more I realize that anyone thats throwing a baseball at a young age is probably going tochave problems down the line.

I mean TJ surgery is going to be a tune up in the future.

[bill]

Seems like someone the sox should target.. Allthough someone throwing that hard at that young an age would have arm/elbow troubles down the line right?

I have heard a saying from scouts that goes something like "If they're throwing 97 at 18, they will be throwing 87 at 21". Still, it is hard to watch that and not want to take your chances he can either stay healthy or recover like Tazawa did if there are problems.Bidding should go high if LA and TX are interested, probably higher than Tazawa. I was a little surprised Montas,also said to throw 100, had a 3.65 era in the GCL.

Edited by bill, 11 October 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[SoxScout]

Boston, (conflicting reports on Baltimore), Texas, LAA, or the draft. He will decide before the October 25 draft.

[Papelbon's Poutine]

What possible reason would there be to choose the draft?

[SoxScout]

Shohei Otani, his parents, and Hanamaki Higashi manager Hiroshi Sasaki meeting with the Boston Red Sox started at 6pm and lasted about an hour and a half. He is expected to sit down with his family his family sometime this week and could come to a final decision some time early next week.

I was able to ask about things outside of baseball, like language and food. My worries and my family's worries were addressed. I also heard about how in order to play for a long time, you need to think in the long-term and that involves going through the minor league system.
I cannot make this decision based on my own feelings alone. I am at fifty-fifty. I want to discuss this with my family, the manager, and others around me and make a decision as soon as possible since this can affect the draft and I do not want to create any problems for NPB teams.

There was talk about a personal interpreter, but the Boston scout told Otani that learning English was also part of turning pro. He was reportedly satisfied with the answer.

The Red Sox were represented by Eddie Romero (Director of International Scouting) and Jon Deeble (Scouting Coordinator for the Pacific Rim).

The Los Angeles Dodgers are considered the front-runners.

http://yakyubaka.com...y-as-next-week/

[Sprowl]

Seems like someone the sox should target.. Allthough someone throwing that hard at that young an age would have arm/elbow troubles down the line right?

Impressive velocity, and impressively generous strike zone. Did he throw a legitimate strike in that entire clip?

The catcher certainly thought his behind was impressive.

Regarding Tazawa: his velocity at the end of 2012 was higher than anything any of his scouting reports observed or predicted before he was signed. His fastball was pegged at good control with 93 max. It's better than that now.

Matsuzaka was 75% knackered when he arrived in 2007. Darvish is probably 50% knackered now. It's hard to knacker a pitcher properly at 18.




I hope.

[soxhop411]

http://yakyubaka.com...y-as-next-week/

Dodgers will be front runners for every player nowadays it seems.... I hope we put in a competitive bid if the sox find that Otani is someone they really want

[Bigpupp]

Shouldn't he fall under the international spending cap? That would answer the question as to why he would want to enter the draft.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Shouldn't he fall under the international spending cap? That would answer the question as to why he would want to enter the draft.

The new rules are a bit convoluted in some places, but I think you're right that this signing would count against the cap.

The other exemption involves players coming to MLB from foreign professional leagues. Players who are at least at least 23 and have played five years in a recognized professional league, such as Japan's Nippon Professional Baseball, will be exempt.

http://www.baseballa...12/2613345.html

Seeing as he is not 23 and has not played for 5 years in a professional baseball league, I see no reason why the exemption could apply to him and I found no mention of a delayed clock in implementing this system for Japanese players beyond last year's July 2nd cut off date.

That might be why he says he's 50/50 on whether to go to the US or stay in Japan. The difference in earnings may be minimal while being able to stay home or he might actually have a decent shot of making more money in Japan over the next 6-8 years than he would in the US. Plus, he'd go pro immediately there and start off as a minor leaguer here.

I'd love to see the Sox add a fireballing young pitcher to the minor league crop, but I'm not sure he's terribly likely to even come to America, never mind pick the Sox as the organization that's best suited for him and his development.

[bosox79]

Is it possible by draft he meant the nippon draft?

[soxhop411]

Is it possible by draft he meant the nippon draft?

yes thats what he is talking about.... Not the MLB draft

[Snodgrass'Muff]

There is no MLB draft for international players. The article I linked to above suggests that MLB would like to eventually have one, but the system cap on spending is in part due to the fact that there is no draft and any team can talk to any international free agent.

So when Otani talks about MLB or the draft, he means the NBP draft which would lock him into the Japanese system for 6-8 years most likely. If he pans out and is a dominant starter, he'll probably be posted by year 6 to maximize his value for what ever team has his rights.

[PaulinMyrBch]

100 mph from the stretch as an 18 year old kid? Wow

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

I heard about Otani a little while ago when he struck out something like18 batters in 8 innings over the course of consecutive games in Japan. The thing I like best about Otani is his build/frame he has the type of body that can really add muscle/bulk without sacrificing in the fast twitch department. I think he could even pick up more velocity as he fills out (or at least maintain velocity longer in games). He's definitely interesting and I'b put him in the same category as the two Cuban outfielders who just came out this past year as far as intrigue (even though Cespedes was much more accomplished). It wouldn't be like a Matsusaka or Darvish signing, but more of a project pick-up like Tasawa or Jorge Soler. If I remember correctly Otani is a decent hitter too, not that he'll be looked at as a position player it just shows the athleticism

Edited by Carl Everetts Therapist, 13 October 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[soxhop411]

any updates on his decision?

Edited by soxhop411, 17 October 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[SoxScout]

There was a super-long interview with him Sunday, but nothing since then in the Japanese media
----

NPB Tracker just posted a profile: http://www.npbtracke...s-shohei-otani/

I’ve only seen one Otani pitch one full game, his appearance in this spring’s Koshien Senbatsu tournament against fellow draft phenom Shintaro Fujinami. It was a frustrating game to watch, as the raw quality of Otani’s stuff was evident, but his command was non-existent. He featured a fastball ranging from about 145-152 km/h (90-95 mph), a slider around 132-136 km/h (82-84 mph) and curve around 125 km/h (77 mph). Everything had movement, and his wildness was of the effective variety until the 6th inning, when he and his defense faltered, before melting down (video) in the 7th. For the day, Otani struck out 11, walked 11 and gave up nine runs (five earned) while taking the loss. That looks bad, but Otani was facing a quality lineup with aluminum bats on a big stage, and his manager left him out for 173 pitches. The raw talent is there, but it was clearly just that in that game – raw.

Edited by SoxScout, 18 October 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[Tokyo Sox]

He has announced that he's going to MLB. (Article in Japanese).

[soxhop411]

He has announced that he's going to MLB. (Article in Japanese).

does that say when he will choose his team? (cant find it via translate)

Edited by soxhop411, 18 October 2012 - 06:33 PM.

[SydneySox]

Wow if only we had someone here who could translate it for us. If only.

[Tokyo Sox]

Sorry, I was busy watching the Yanks get eliminated. No it doesn't say which team.

The first two paragraphs basically say the same thing - Japanese teams told him they'd make him the #1 pick in the NPB draft later this month, but it was his dream from the time he entered high school to one day pitch in the majors. Says he has met with 3 teams: Sox, Dodgers, and Rangers, but the Dodgers are mentioned most heavily for whatever reason.

His H.S. coach had said he thought it was a low chance he'd go to the majors, and Ohtani himself was pretty mum on it. He was nervous about life in a foreign country/English etc, but those fears largely dissipated after he met with the Sox on October 11th. Doesn't say what was discussed but just that his uneasiness was extinguished and he thinks he could handle life in the States. He realizes he won't be in the bigs right away, and that the road is tough, but appreciates that will be part of his growth process and adjustment, etc.

yada yada

Now I have to get back to work.

By which I mean watching baseball and football.

Jerk.

[pjr]

Translated using Bing.

Otani measure! In the end chose dreams


Career was promising major or national professional right arm, 160 km hanamaki Higashi (Iwate), 18, Otani Shohei pitchers (3 years) major challenge should be definitively revealed. Since professional aspiring notification be submitted to 9/19, 3, Dodgers MLB baseball team and an appointment with the Europeans lived. Highly respected as a candidate # 1 draft from Japan baseball team on the other hand, Otani piled up study in consultation with the parents and others. Also recommend from around the country had was dreams from the high school admission for. NPB respondents ranked Otani candidate Japan that will be forced for 25 draft Conference.
Otani chose the "dream". While receiving acclaimed as a candidate # 1 draft from Japan professional team, had received the invitation from the Dodgers, Rangers and major league baseball. Otani is major challenge hung from high school students to dream was recommended from around the country. 9/18 The U.S. has been worrying the way expressed the intention to proceed to any of you was talking about "5:05" and, to talk around and even then.
Still, strong feelings toward Otani dreams. Can be found in a matter of days in discussions with school officials from Yoshihiro Sasaki (38) final decision and Otani low could overturn major challenge decision. Is expected to express in his own words to the 20th or 21st.
Otani made an appointment directly 3 teams of the Dodgers, Rangers, Red Sox and so far. After the bodies are still growing but risks dealing with English and unfamiliar environment affects the baseball Red Sox interviewing 11 "I have had anxiety so part of baseball other than language and environment gave me resolve. I think ） （ life United States is okay "and talked about. In addition to "yourself speak words as much as possible, so that based on this, Pro said. I think we do yourself ", at least, determination seemed could sway any apprehension.
Otani have proven Japan baseball take the first step towards professional from the minor leagues. To measure elevation, in the fierce competition which must be. However, this development also take positive and. Meeting after major league baseball team and "easily on 上がれず, to exercise in the lower minor leagues, come up to the major I got to hear the story. There is also part of the coach and we are really in favor "and was talking about.
（ NPB ） Japan professional baseball draft Conference are nearing the 25th, each teams # 1 Otani was listed as a candidate is forced to respond. The Otani expressed major challenges also can picks the Otani. From but involves greater risk, won the right to negotiate mandatory to nomination to convince Otani Club that may come.

Wow if only we had someone here who could translate it for us. If only.

[Tokyo Sox]

Sorry just realized Soxhop's question was when, not which. No it doesn't say that either. It does say that NPB teams could still draft him, obviously taking a huge risk in the process that he doesn't sign, but if they did that they would have until March 31st to negotiate with him...domestically...so he would not be able to sign with an MLB team until April 1st...even though the Japanese rules wouldn't really apply to him in this case. So basically, it's unclear.

[SoxScout]

I think this says he is staying in japan: http://hochi.yomiuri...-OHT1T00102.htm

yep, conflicting reports: http://yakyubaka.com...play-in-the-us/

Edited by SoxScout, 18 October 2012 - 09:40 PM.

[norm from cheers]

I can just imagine the pressure this young man is getting to accept being drafted by the NPB to stay and play in Japan. The terrible google translation of the above article referenced by Scout (Hochi Sports) indicates he is promised to be the #1 draft pick and mentions the hardship of his parents following him in the minors. It also mentions he will not have the option to return to NPB until after 3 years if it doesn't work out in the US.

If he does in fact, sign with a MLB team, that has to create a major backlash from the NPB right? Tazawa was undrafted initially out of HS, and the NPB reacted to the Sox signing him from the Industrial League by banning amateurs who sign with MLB for 2 years and high school players 3 years. That was for a relative unknown Amateur signing..a number 1 draftee "designate" jumping ship to play in the USA has to be viewed as a dangerous precedent by the powers that be in the NPB.

[MrDaniel]

I was under the impression Tazawa was highly regarded and was only undrafted out of high school because he made his plans to come to MLB known. Is this not correct?

[TheShynessClinic]

http://sonsofsamhorn...junichi-tazawa/

That's the original Tazawa thread. He was drafted by Orix, and refused, choosing instead to go to the industrial league (which is a loosely affiliated minor league). From there, he signed directly with the Red Sox, after requesting teams from the NPB not draft him, as he would be going to MLB.

[SoxScout]

http://www.sanspo.co...5300000-n1.html

Decision coming on the 22nd, states again that the Sox really took away a lot of his anxiety about coming to the US.

Edited by SoxScout, 19 October 2012 - 04:29 PM.

[norm from cheers]

Interesting overview of the this situation by Patrick Newman over at NPB Tracker

"So Otani is a prospect, and an excellent one at that. If his command was better I might call him the best high school pitching prospect I’ve seen in the 12 years or so that I’ve been paying attention, but for now I think that distinction will remain with Hayato Terahara. My preferred print publications Shukan Baseball and Yakyu Kozoh have him at the top of this year’s draft class..."

http://www.npbtracke...-otani/#content

[SoxScout]

Supposed 4am ET news conference, Sponichi reporting he is coming to the US.

[SoxScout]

it's official

"I had a tough time making up my mind, but I have decided to play in America. I will have to begin at the minor league level, but I want to improve myself in a difficult environment. There were some differences between my thoughts and those around me, but I ultimately went with what I wanted. I am still not sure which team I want to go to." http://yakyubaka.com...28Yakyu+Baka%29

and here is video

Edited by SoxScout, 21 October 2012 - 04:50 AM.

[Curll]

ESPN: http://espn.go.com/m...ller-opting-mlb

Get it done, Ben.

[SoxScout]

If a team drafts him on Thursday they have exclusive negotiations with him until March 31, so he wouldn't be able to shop himself until April.

If he goes undrafted he could sign with the Dodgers, Rangers, Red Sox within a few weeks. Dodgers have been on him the longest so it's assumed they are favorites.

source

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I might be naive for hoping this, but I can't help but hope the quote about his talk with Boston being a big part of him getting more comfortable with the idea of coming to America means the Sox might have the edge.

Guess we'll find out soon enough. Hopefully very soon if he isn't drafted.

[Corsi]

Japanese pitching prospect Shohei Otaniintends to pursue a career in MLB, and a number of teams are interested in the hard-throwing right-hander. The Red Sox and Rangers “have done the most work in this arena,” according to Olney.

http://www.mlbtrader..._medium=twitter

[SoxScout]

alexspeier: Cherington confirms Sox met w/Otani. Says only, 'He's a respected young pitching prospect in Japan.

[SoxScout]

The Nippon Ham Fighters held an organizational meeting at the Ni-gun facilities on Tuesday. During the meeting, they confirmed their plans to select Otani with their first pick.
"It is Otani-kun. I am planning to select the best player available. ... Otani-kun commented that he wanted to play for an MLB team, but our plan is to select the best player. We plan to select Otani-kun. ... We understand that Otani-kun has strong feelings for the majors. Even if we do get rights to negotiate with him, I am not confident [we can sign him]. However, we will not step down." said GM Masao Yamada.
Yamada also told reporters he decided to go public with the pick because he felt it might not be good to "surprise" him with the selection.

http://yakyubaka.com...ka (Yakyu Baka)

[Spacemans Bong]

I think he gets drafted by an NPB club, he would have to be posted. That's what Keith Law said.

I could see that being the best for everybody. Otani gets to go to MLB, MLB and NPB avoid a war, the club gets a nice whack of cash.

[Infield Infidel]

I don't think that would be the best for Otani; he'd get to go to MLB, but he wouldn't get to pick his team, and he wouldn't get teams bidding against each other for a contract.

[Hendu for Kutch]

Ya, that doesn't sound good for Otani at all. I'm not even sure how that can stand up, honestly. NPB doesn't just own him, no matter how much they'd like to think otherwise. If he signs on with them, sure, but they can't just declare that he belongs to them simply because they said so. How could that possibly hold up to legal challenge?

[gammoseditor]

I think he gets drafted by an NPB club, he would have to be posted. That's what Keith Law said.

I could see that being the best for everybody. Otani gets to go to MLB, MLB and NPB avoid a war, the club gets a nice whack of cash.

Not necessarily. This is what I thought too but post 7 of this thread has a good recap on the Tazawa situation. In Tazawa's case, no Japanese team drafted him because he let them know he wanted to play in the states, but if drafting him meant they could block him they certainly would have.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

The quote from the Nippon Ham Fighters says they are drafting him in the hopes that they can sign him which suggests he has the right to refuse and come to the states if he wants.

[gammoseditor]

If a team drafts him on Thursday they have exclusive negotiations with him until March 31, so he wouldn't be able to shop himself until April.

If he goes undrafted he could sign with the Dodgers, Rangers, Red Sox within a few weeks. Dodgers have been on him the longest so it's assumed they are favorites.

source

Based on this and the rumors that a team plans on drafting him, I wonder if he'd wait another three months after March 31 for teams international annual spending budgets to reset.

[Infield Infidel]

Based on this and the rumors that a team plans on drafting him, I wonder if he'd wait another three months after March 31 for teams international annual spending budgets to reset.

If he were to wait, could he sign with an independent league for those three months, or would that affect his status as an international free agent?