106 replies to this topic

[knucklecup]

I think this is thread worthy. I will always look back at the Jones III / Melo / Sullinger decision Danny made as a bizarre one, one that I feel we will eventually regret. Melo's ceiling is as a solid big man, but I think Jones III could have helped this season where Melo won't be an asset - nor will he need to be one with Collins, Wilcox, and Darco.

The argument can be made that Jones III and Green are redundant I suppose but I find that to be nitpicking.

Saw this article today:

The 6-foot-9 Durant has a ridiculous 7-foot-5 wingspan, which makes his jumper almost impossible to block for forwards of similar height. Facing Jones in practice offers a challenge in length that Durant rarely sees.
“He's a guy that can play multiple positions, and he can guard multiple players,” Brooks said. “And that's always a big asset to our team.”
How has Jones done defensively against Durant?
“I try the best that I can to use my length and just try to stay in front of him and just make it hard for him to make shots,” Jones said.
How many of Durant's shots has Jones blocked?
“I blocked one,” Jones said with a smile. “One out of like … 80.”

http://newsok.com/ok...3716653/?page=2

Do you guys feel the same? Are there any other articles people have found they would like to share? A lot of teams passe on him and I'm really curious to watch his progression.

[nighthob]

Yeah, actually I do. I like Sully and all, but PJ3 was a swing for the fences type move that could have paid real dividends. And I would have been less worried about the jackass factor with the Celtics given the strong vet presence.

[oumbi]

Yeah, actually I do. I like Sully and all, but PJ3 was a swing for the fences type move that could have paid real dividends. And I would have been less worried about the jackass factor with the Celtics given the strong vet presence.

He might turn out to be quite good. But has anyone heard any new news about his knees? Wasn't that the real concern about him?

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Perry Jones III reminds me way too much of Anthony Randolph to make me think that he's going to be a star in the NBA, or even a solid rotation guy. Nothing I saw out of him at Baylor led me to believe that he's going to pan out in the NBA. He couldn't bang in the post in the Big 12 and spent two years floating around the perimeter taking jump shots, which he didn't even do well, shooting 30% from 3. My guess is that he'll have a career similar to Anthony Randolph's; decent per 36 numbers and rate stats, but without the motor to be a regular contributor. He'll get a lot of chances in the league based on his potential alone, but I don't expect him to do much and think the Celtics made the right decision to avoid him.

[Marbleheader]

I was surprised by the Melo pick and generally think he's going to be useless.   At least he's a late round pick and not a Kedrick Brown type disaster. There wasn't anyone I was dying for Danny to take, like when he C's passed on Parker to draft Forte.

[repole]

^I think Randolph is considerably more talented than Jones to be honest. Randolph's got a pretty well defined and impressive skillset offensively and defensively, he just has no idea what he's doing when he's on the court. Jones doesn't really have much of a skillset at this point, but he at least looks like he knows where he should be when he's out there.

I don't really know how people decided Jones was meant for stardom, because frankly very little in his skillset makes me think that's possible. The athleticism is nice, and he has a great frame, which should lend itself to impact defense. He seems sort of like a more athletic/bigger/less skilled version of Jeff Green. I don't think his upside is much more than a guy who defends multiple positions well and is competent offensively.

I'd rather have him than Melo, but despite my hate for all things OSU, Sullinger seems like a much better pick.

Edited by repole, 08 October 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[nighthob]

He might turn out to be quite good. But has anyone heard any new news about his knees? Wasn't that the real concern about him?

Yeah, but we took the guy with the bad back. I think they're both ultimately bound to be roleplayers in the NBA, but Jones has a lot more upside.

[AMS25]

On the Thunder, Perry Jones III is slated to be competing for the minutes Nazr Mohammed, Daequan Cook, and Royal Ivey got last year. If he's lucky, he'll play 10-20 minutes as Durant's back-up as part of the second unit. No one in OKC sees him as much more than a cheap way to deepen the bench. But, who knows? Maybe he's got some real upside and will win more minutes. That's what happened to Harden; he began by playing 10-20 minutes as part of the second unit. Now, he leads the second unit and plays with the first unit part of the time.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Yeah, but we took the guy with the bad back. I think they're both ultimately bound to be roleplayers in the NBA, but Jones has a lot more upside.

I don't see why people feel that Jones III has so much upside. What has he done, besides be athletic, to earn that? Despite his athleticism, he almost never got to the line at Baylor, he ranked dead last in the NCAA in point per possession on post ups, and was the 4th worst forward entered in the draft in terms of points per possession in ISO situations and on jump shots. He doesn't rebound particularly well, with a rate of 13.8% (vs. 19.2% for Sullinger) and though he's athletic, he rated as a below average defender. When I look at his game, I just don't see what it is that he does at an NBA level. He may, with time, develop an NBA level skill or two, but in the meantime he's going to seriously struggle to get on the floor. Sullinger at least offers an elite skill in his rebounding, and it's an elite skill that projects very well from college to the NBA.

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 08 October 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[Super Nomario]

On the Thunder, Perry Jones III is slated to be competing for the minutes Nazr Mohammed, Daequan Cook, and Royal Ivey got last year. If he's lucky, he'll play 10-20 minutes as Durant's back-up as part of the second unit. No one in OKC sees him as much more than a cheap way to deepen the bench. But, who knows? Maybe he's got some real upside and will win more minutes. That's what happened to Harden; he began by playing 10-20 minutes as part of the second unit. Now, he leads the second unit and plays with the first unit part of the time.

Harden was a top-five pick; he may have started out in a limited role, but clearly that wasn't the long-term plan.

[nighthob]

I don't see why people feel that Jones III has so much upside. What has he done, besides be athletic, to earn that? Despite his athleticism, he almost never got to the line at Baylor, he ranked dead last in the NCAA in point per possession on post ups, and was the 4th worst forward entered in the draft in terms of points per possession in ISO situations and on jump shots. He doesn't rebound particularly well, with a rate of 13.8% (vs. 19.2% for Sullinger) and though he's athletic, he rated as a below average defender. When I look at his game, I just don't see what it is that he does at an NBA level. He may, with time, develop an NBA level skill or two, but in the meantime he's going to seriously struggle to get on the floor. Sullinger at least offers an elite skill in his rebounding, and elite skill that projects very well from college to the NBA.

I think where we're disagreeing is that I actually haven't been impressed by Sullinger. He's struggled defensively with the speed of the European game, which makes me rather resigned to the fact that he won't be giving Boston a whole lot. And that his upside is as a slower Brandon Bass. He looks like an undersized post defender to me. Which is going to be really limiting here. Jones, at the very least, has the chance to be an impact defensive player if someone gets his head screwed on right (which is, admittedly, a huge if). So if I'm looking at two roleplayers, and one of them has the chance to be an impact defender as a swing forward, and the other a 6'9" center, I would rather gamble on the former.

[wutang112878]

I think Danny basically didnt like him as a player. There are a few reasons, not related to Jones, that I can think of that might have caused Danny to pass, but only the last one makes much sense:

• Sure Green and Jone3 could be redundant, but if that was the only problem and Danny really liked Jones he probably could have traded Green (before he signed him) for a 1st rounder in the 20s thus justifying the pick.
• Another theory could be that Danny was in GFIN mode and wanted to only draft immediate contributors, but the Melo pick demonstrates that wasnt the case
• Danny might have just wanted to make safe picks, but the Sully pick considering the back issue demonstrates that wasnt the case
• The one that makes the most sense to me, is that Danny might just be scared of wings with 'great potential' that drop in the draft and have question marks. The rolls of the dice on Giddens, Walker, and Green (Gerald that is) didnt produce much. Danny might just be hesitant to draft wings at this point as a result, but if Danny has demonstrated anything its that he is a risk taker

As for Perry specifically, I think some teams were concerned about the knee a little, but I think the major concern was the motor/desire issue. In that sense he reminds me of Green, all the talent in the world, its just unclear how much desire he has to cultivate it. So while this situation certainly should be monitored because of the what if factor, the best barometer of this is going to be what Perry does during the season as a whole. If he isnt getting much playing time, is still productive (and intersted) in the timehe gets and is putting in the effort during practice, then I am going to start thinking we should have taken him. Until then, we are basically just talking about a guy who has shown some flashes before the real games starter.

[wutang112878]

I think where we're disagreeing is that I actually haven't been impressed by Sullinger. He's struggled defensively with the speed of the European game, which makes me rather resigned to the fact that he won't be giving Boston a whole lot. And that his upside is as a slower Brandon Bass. He looks like an undersized post defender to me. Which is going to be really limiting here. Jones, at the very least, has the chance to be an impact defensive player if someone gets his head screwed on right (which is, admittedly, a huge if). So if I'm looking at two roleplayers, and one of them has the chance to be an impact defender as a swing forward, and the other a 6'9" center, I would rather gamble on the former.

I see Sully's value as being a guy that can provide production off the bench, and allow the starters to rest. Even if he is slow, if he can rebound and provide some down-low scoring off the bench, that would be huge (for this team). I see it as a cumulative effect, because the more minutes that our bench can be a +/- of zero the more our starters can rest, and then the more effective they will be over the course of the season an playoffs. So from a GFIN perspective, I think Sully fits in well here assuming he can score a bit and rebound. And I wouldnt worry too much about the slowness yet, BBD was very fast but he was effective in the NBA, guys can get by without great speed.

As for Perry, if his real impact is going to be as a defender, I think thats a skill that can generally be found in the FA market and isnt super expensive, and if thats all Danny passed on then he made the right call in my opinion.

Edited by wutang112878, 08 October 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[nighthob]

Davis was extremely quick, especially given his size. Sullinger, on the other hand, looks like a sea sponge migration on the defensive end.

[wutang112878]

I dont know why BBD was on my mind, I meant Carlos Boozer. Not lightning fast, but effective.

[ifmanis5]

On draft day I was pining for PJ3. In hindsight, after seeing Sully play w/the starting unit, I think his was a defensible pick and that he fits in well with the pieces the Celtics currently have. We won't be winning any footraces but he can rebound and score near the basket which is what they need. The Melo pick, on the other hand, made no sense to me and will most likely be a wasted pick. I also read the PJ3 is giving Kevin Durant a run for his money in practices article and just sighed. Would have been a great pick for Boston. Presti is smart.

[Jed Zeppelin]

That was a typical pre-season fluff article. If people really wanted him that's fine (as long as it was for your own reasons and not because Jay Bilas said so), but I can't feel any regret at this point for things that haven't happened yet, especially with Sully looking like a decent fit so far.

A lot of teams passed on PJIII. It doesn't help my case that one of the smartest teams ended up taking him, but I'll wait and see for myself what everyone else passed on before judging this as a mistake. Once upon a time, Justin Reed was the next Bruce Bowen, if those kinds of articles were to be trusted.

For the record, I liked the Sully pick and was ambivalent about the Melo pick. Wasn't crazy about it, but understood why it was made, so I'm willing to wait and see if Melo's natural physical gifts pan out on the court.

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 08 October 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[AMS25]

Harden was a top-five pick; he may have started out in a limited role, but clearly that wasn't the long-term plan.

Eh, the Thunder were panned for picking Harden in the top five. They were lucky to get PJ3. I don't think the Thunder have a long-term plan. Presti picks what he picks. If it works out, the Thunder will try to extend the player. If not, (Jeff Green), Presti trades the player for missing pieces. I think PJ3 will be given some time on the court to show what he can do. But, he's not regarded as someone to build around and he's not expected to be a break-out star. He is what he is, cheap depth with some promise.

[BigSoxFan]

What it came down to me is that I would have rather taken a shot on a guy like PJIII over a project like Melo. Neither player is likely to develop into anything more than bench depth so we probably won't be killing ourselves over it. Like others have indicated in this thread, I've watched PJIII multiple times looking to be impressed but never came away with that feeling - not even the "man, if he just puts it all together" lament that many people have with young players.

[Brickowski]

For the record, I liked the Sully pick and was ambivalent about the Melo pick. Wasn't crazy about it, but understood why it was made, so I'm willing to wait and see if Melo's natural physical gifts pan out on the court.

I wasn't crazy about the Melo pick either, but I would have taken Tony Wroten instead, not Perry Jones.

[Ed Hillel]

I think Danny didn't anticipate being able to end up with the bigman/center talent he did in free agency, saw it as the glaring weakness on the team at the time of the draft (thinking/knowing Green would be back), and just went with the best that was there at the position. I still think it was a fine pick, and worthy of the risk at that position. If you can get production from either of your two picks in the low twenties on a perennial contender, that's a success. Sullinger looks like he'll be an immediate impact, Melo we just don't know yet.

[ifmanis5]

Per RotoWorld..

Perry Jones is having a nice training camp and appears to have overtaken Daequan Cook for a spot in the rotation.
Jones, Cook and Lazar Hayward are all battling for the same back up minutes, but Jones appears to be the best of the bunch right now. Of course, playing behind Kevin Durant and James Harden isn't going to mean he sees enough minutes to make a big fantasy impact, but it does sound like he'll play 10-15 minutes per game as a rookie. Keep an eye on him.

[JakeRae]

I think Sullinger is likely to have a better season and career than PJ3, although his upside is definitely lower. Also, Green is a better player right now and going forward in the same role. So, drafting Sullinger instead of Jones made a ton of sense. I can understand taking the other position, but I think it is overvaluing athleticism and undervaluing skill.

Melo is a lottery ticket, much more so than Jones or Sullinger are. While I would not bet on Melo ever being a quality NBA player, he has tremendous upside if the Celtics can succeed in teaching him how to play basketball. Melo has the athletic ability to be a top tier center in the NBA. He also has absolutely no clue what he is doing as a basketball player. Normally, I'd be against this sort of pick since the odds of it working out are slim, but balanced against the other GFIN moves this offseason, including drafting Sullinger, drafting Melo makes a lot of sense. With KG, Boston is in as good a position as anyone to try to teach Melo how to make the most of his athletic gifts. And, they need to swing for the fences if they have any hope of fielding a competitive team after KG and Pierce retire in a few years. PJ3 turning into a solid rotation wing wouldn't help the Celtics now (Green is better) and he's not going to be good enough to make a difference in 3 years when they are rebuilding.

[knucklecup]

I don't see why people feel that Jones III has so much upside. What has he done, besides be athletic, to earn that? Despite his athleticism, he almost never got to the line at Baylor, he ranked dead last in the NCAA in point per possession on post ups, and was the 4th worst forward entered in the draft in terms of points per possession in ISO situations and on jump shots. He doesn't rebound particularly well, with a rate of 13.8% (vs. 19.2% for Sullinger) and though he's athletic, he rated as a below average defender. When I look at his game, I just don't see what it is that he does at an NBA level. He may, with time, develop an NBA level skill or two, but in the meantime he's going to seriously struggle to get on the floor. Sullinger at least offers an elite skill in his rebounding, and it's an elite skill that projects very well from college to the NBA.

There's this:

Daequan Cook entered this season with perhaps the most to gain from the departure of Derek Fisher. But after a week of training camp, it's beginning to sound like Cook's spot in the rotation isn't as secure as once projected — if not lost altogether due to the arrival of promising rookie Perry Jones III.

http://newsok.com/ok...article/3717049

(Green is better)

Do we really know with 100% certainty that Jeff Green is better than Perry Jones?

Edited by knucklecup, 09 October 2012 - 09:05 PM.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

There's this:



http://newsok.com/ok...article/3717049


Do we really know with 100% certainty that Jeff Green is better than Perry Jones?

So Perry Jones III's upside is evidenced by that fact that he may be the 10th man in the Thunder's rotation? He certainly has the physical tools, don't get me wrong, but before I go all crazy calling Sam Presti a genius for finding a steal and comparing Perry Jones III to Jeff Green, I'm gonna wait until he shows something other that mediocrity on the floor.

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 10 October 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[wutang112878]

Do we really know with 100% certainty that Jeff Green is better than Perry Jones?

With 100% certainty we know that Green has proven to be an NBA player, we dont know that with certainty with Jones.

I think we need to put this Jones report into perspective a bit because its just training camp. The true test for rookies is a few months into the season once they have been scouted and the book and strategy on them has been developed, if the rookies can still be effective/productive because they are so good or the modify/enhance their game. Right now we are talking about Jones having a few good weeks of practice, once he has a few good months of productivity during the regular season then we can really start estimating his potential.

[fairlee76]

So Perry Jones III's upside is evidenced by that fact that he may be the 10th man in the Thunder's rotation? He certainly has the physical tools, don't get me wrong, but before I go all crazy calling Sam Presti a genius for finding a steal and comparing Perry Jones III to Jeff Green, I'm gonna wait until he shows something other that mediocrity on the floor.

I agree with you in that I am not sure how "competing with Daequean Cook for a spot in the rotation" is evidence of Jones's upside. Jones is someone I watched closely in college and I could never shake the notion that he is never going to come close to realizing the potential people saw in him before he enrolled at Baylor. Watching him play alongside Acy was an interesting contrast of a guy who seemed to maximize his potential with a guy who seemed to not fully get it. Yes, I know that is extremely subjective.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I agree with you in that I am not sure how "competing with Daequean Cook for a spot in the rotation" is evidence of Jones's upside. Jones is someone I watched closely in college and I could never shake the notion that he is never going to come close to realizing the potential people saw in him before he enrolled at Baylor. Watching him play alongside Acy was an interesting contrast of a guy who seemed to maximize his potential with a guy who seemed to not fully get it. Yes, I know that is extremely subjective.

My opinion of him's pretty anecdotal too, but it's since been reaffirmed by the reading up I've done on him and the numbers he put up at Baylor. I distinctly remember hearing about how Baylor had a guy that was a lock to be a lottery pick, and then watching Baylor with a couple of friends and all of us guessing incorrectly as to which of their players was the lottery pick. He just never dominated games they way a lottery talent should.

[knucklecup]

With 100% certainty we know that Green has proven to be an NBA player, we dont know that with certainty with Jones.

I hate Hollinger but I agree with his opinion of the Green signing minus the hyperbole:

Can they amnesty Green yet, or do they have to wait until the games start? Maybe the Celtics are just trying to keep us on our toes and prove they're capable of screwing up, too. Here's what we know: Green was a fungible player before he missed last season with a heart problem; guaranteeing him four years (with a player option on the fourth!) at a rate far beyond any rational market level is something we might expect from a couple of the league's bumbling organizations, but certainly not this one. I can't stress this enough: Green is 26 and played four full seasons in the league, and after all that time there's no evidence he's actually any good and considerable evidence that he's a health risk. Yet he's being paid like a second-tier star. This was, without a doubt, the worst contract of the summer.

They were forced to sign this contract. It was either Jeff Green at this rate or nobody at all.

[wutang112878]

I respect Hollinger, but saying this 'without a doubt' was the worst contract of the summer is a joke. Is it possible Green is overpaid, sure but his salary is about $9M a year, thats a moveable deal. To say Greens contract is absolutely worse than Eric Gordon 4yrs/~$60M, Ryan Anderson 4yrs/$34M, Nicolas Batum 4yrs/$45M, thats going a bit far. Green has some question marks around his game, and health but I would argue that he has proven a bit more production wise than Anderson and Batum and they got virtually the same deal.

Also, Hollinger should be smart enough to realize that Green's value, for the Celts, is not only in his production but in his ability to allow KG and Pierce to play less minutes, its a cumulative effect. Maybe he only produces like a $6M or $7M player, but the remainder of the 'value' is found in the rest factor.

One thing Danny has proven is that he very rarely gives out bad contracts, Mark Blount is really probably the worst of the bunch he signed someone to and he was even able to move that deal. I think Hollinger is just overreacting on this one. Chances are this contract never looks like a coup for the Celts, but its not a ruin the franchise deal and has the chance to actually help the franchise win a title even if its an overpay. That Hollinger quote really has me fired up

[Jed Zeppelin]

Does Hollinger bother with anything outside the bounds of his statistical model? Green's impact on easing the burden of KG and Pierce isn't a factor. The Celtics' cap situation and lack of alternatives aren't factors. As far as I know all he looks at is production, of which Green provided none last season, and before that less than what Hollinger deems worthy of the contract he received.

[nighthob]

Does Hollinger bother with anything outside the bounds of his statistical model? Green's impact on easing the burden of KG and Pierce isn't a factor. The Celtics' cap situation and lack of alternatives aren't factors. As far as I know all he looks at is production, of which Green provided none last season, and before that less than what Hollinger deems worthy of the contract he received.

Like most magic formulae guys he believes only in the numbers in front of him. I may not like the deal, but I understood why Boston had to do it, the new CBA didn't give them any options. They couldn't sign & trade him because he wasn't on the roster last year, so their options were Green or another NBA minimum guy. And they weren't getting a competent NBA swing forward at vet min given their position.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I respect Hollinger, but saying this 'without a doubt' was the worst contract of the summer is a joke. Is it possible Green is overpaid, sure but his salary is about $9M a year, thats a moveable deal. To say Greens contract is absolutely worse than Eric Gordon 4yrs/~$60M, Ryan Anderson 4yrs/$34M, Nicolas Batum 4yrs/$45M, thats going a bit far. Green has some question marks around his game, and health but I would argue that he has proven a bit more production wise than Anderson and Batum and they got virtually the same deal.

Also, Hollinger should be smart enough to realize that Green's value, for the Celts, is not only in his production but in his ability to allow KG and Pierce to play less minutes, its a cumulative effect. Maybe he only produces like a $6M or $7M player, but the remainder of the 'value' is found in the rest factor.

One thing Danny has proven is that he very rarely gives out bad contracts, Mark Blount is really probably the worst of the bunch he signed someone to and he was even able to move that deal. I think Hollinger is just overreacting on this one. Chances are this contract never looks like a coup for the Celts, but its not a ruin the franchise deal and has the chance to actually help the franchise win a title even if its an overpay. That Hollinger quote really has me fired up

I think you might be underestimating what Batum and Anderson have done production wise. Just a quick and dirty look:

Career PER:
Anderson 18.4
Batum 15.4
Green 12.8

Career WS/48:
Anderson .179
Batum .133
Green .071

Green is also 2 years older than Anderson, and 3 years older than Batum. Additionally, they're both substantially better shooters than Green. I don't think it's a slam dunk that Green's deal ends up being the worst of the summer--Gerald Green's deal is big and long for a guy his age who relies so heavily on athleticism--but it looks like the worst to me at the moment, and if Green produces as he has over the first 4 years of his career, it probably will be.

Edit: Also, let's not rule out pretty much any of the multi-year deals the Knicks gave 40 year-olds this off season as the worst.

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 16 October 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[wutang112878]

I think you might be underestimating what Batum and Anderson have done production wise. Just a quick and dirty look:

Career PER:
Anderson 18.4
Batum 15.4
Green 12.8

Career WS/48:
Anderson .179
Batum .133
Green .071

Yuck. I immediately went to look at Green's splits in his small sample here post trade, thinking that might indicate that OKC's offense just wasnt a great fit for him, but the numbers are virtually the same as his OKC production. So number wise, I cant make a case for Green. I guess I am biased because I am a believer in Danny's evaluation of guys, egg on face!

As far as the Green contract goes, I do still believe that there is some 'value' that he will provide by giving KG and Pierce time to rest, but I was certainly off in my comparisons to Batum and Anderson. Hopefully my faith in Danny is well placed and with a full training camp Green will demonstrate that he is at least on par with these guys this year in terms of PER and WS, I hope!

[nighthob]

Randerson's a one trick pony that no longer gets to play off Superman. That deal is going to look the worst of any this summer when all's said and done.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Randerson's a one trick pony that no longer gets to play off Superman. That deal is going to look the worst of any this summer when all's said and done.

What's Jeff Green's trick? One trick > No tricks.

[JakeRae]

Yuck.  I immediately went to look at Green's splits in his small sample here post trade, thinking that might indicate that OKC's offense just wasnt a great fit for him, but the numbers are virtually the same as his OKC production.  So number wise, I cant make a case for Green.  I guess I am biased because I am a believer in Danny's evaluation of guys, egg on face!

As far as the Green contract goes, I do still believe that there is some 'value' that he will provide by giving KG and Pierce time to rest, but I was certainly off in my comparisons to Batum and Anderson.  Hopefully my faith in Danny is well placed and with a full training camp Green will demonstrate that he is at least on par with these guys this year in terms of PER and WS, I hope!

Why do we care what his PER is?

[wutang112878]

Why do we care what his PER is?

Because in this case it indicates that Anderson and Batum are more positive contributors to their team that Green has been. PER isnt a perfect formula, but is a decent barometer of a players worth in terms of net contributions (positives like points, rebounds, steals - negatives like turnovers and fouls). Or did I not understand the question?

[ifmanis5]

Also, Hollinger should be smart enough to realize that Green's value, for the Celts, is not only in his production but in his ability to allow KG and Pierce to play less minutes, its a cumulative effect. Maybe he only produces like a $6M or $7M player, but the remainder of the 'value' is found in the rest factor.

I liked this point and let me bring it into the realm of this thread. Fab Melo is not helping KG or Pierce reduce their workload this year and most likely any year. Wasted pick. PJ3 would help this year and combined with Green, Sully and Darko would add quite a bit of quality front court depth right away and help extend rest for KG and Pierce in the dog days of March. Missed opportunity by Danny.

[JakeRae]

Because in this case it indicates that Anderson and Batum are more positive contributors to their team that Green has been.  PER isnt a perfect formula, but is a decent barometer of a players worth in terms of net contributions (positives like points, rebounds, steals - negatives like turnovers and fouls).  Or did I not understand the question?

PER measures the performance of NBA players about as well as wins measure the performance of MLB starters.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

PER measures the performance of NBA players about as well as wins measure the performance of MLB starters.

This seems overly hyperbolic. With the obvious caveat that PER ignores defense, it's a pretty decent tool for measuring a player's offensive value.

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 16 October 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[wutang112878]

I liked this point and let me bring it into the realm of this thread. Fab Melo is not helping KG or Pierce reduce their workload this year and most likely any year. Wasted pick. PJ3 would help this year and combined with Green, Sully and Darko would add quite a bit of quality front court depth right away and help extend rest for KG and Pierce in the dog days of March. Missed opportunity by Danny.

At first I thought PJ3 and Green are a little too similar to be on the same roster though because I see them both as 3/4 tweeners, so I couldnt see them both contributing at the same time. Then I just thought of a lineup I saw Doc try last night with Sully at the 5. So, a lineup of Sully, PJ3, Green, Lee and Terry which might be crazy enough to just work now that I think of it, really unorthodox lineup and almost reminds me of Nellie ball, but it might just work.

This seems overly hyperbolic. With the obvious caveat that PER ignores defense, it's a pretty decent tool for measuring a player's offensive value.

Seconded, PER is flawed like all mass evaluation formulas, but its a decent barometer, certainly not worthless.

[nighthob]

What's Jeff Green's trick? One trick > No tricks.

Green's a jackass of all trades. Can defend two positions on the floor, is a fairly decent transition player, and will be more effective now that his offensive role is moving towards "the other guy on the floor". Randerson's Matt Bonner. Neither contract is particularly good, but Randerson's only value was as Dwight's three point shooter. Now he's playing on a team where no forward commands a doubleteam.

[ifmanis5]

Preety sweet stat line tonight: 30min 8-10fg 4reb 5ast 1stl 1blk 0to 17pts.

[AMS25]

From Royce at the Daily Thunder:

Scott Brooks has to find minutes for Perry Jones. Whether it’s by stretching his rotation to 11 guys or it’s by cutting someone else out, he’s just got too much talent not to play. His 17 points in 30 minutes were impressive alone, but the guy makes plays. He had five assists, a block, a steal and three boards. Plus, he’s got crazy bounce. I don’t think it would be outlandish to say he’s the most athletic player on the team. And on this team, that’s saying something. I’m curious to see how Jones might play if he’s not getting 25 minutes but more just 5-15, but it’s obvious that he can make an impact this season. He played quite a bit of power forward tonight, kind of swapping the position at times with KD. Pretty interesting.

[ifmanis5]

The draft day rumor kibosh on his "injury" was such an obvious load of garbage. Passing on that much physical talent, especially late in the draft, is an epic fail.

[CreightonGubanich]

Regarding Jeff Green, while his contract was probably a slight overpay, the Celtics are gambling on his upside because it's really their only shot at acquiring a substantial piece of the post-KG-and-Pierce puzzle for the next couple seasons. I think Jeff Green's upside is a guy who could be the third banana on a contending team. He can shoot the three, make plays in transition, and defend two spots on the floor well. His production (if you look at PER) hasn't been there, but you have to like the tools. Add that he can spell both Pierce and Garnett, infuse some much needed athleticism, and guard LeBron James, and the contract was worth a shot.

[ifmanis5]

Yes, only the preseason, but against the Bulls, who can play defense, PJ3 had another nice little night for himself.

20min 7-14fg 4reb 1ast 14pts

[knucklecup]

I watched that entire game. He had lapses but he was faster, more athletic, and as good as Luol Deng.

[ifmanis5]

Sent down to the D-League today. He needs the reps, not much room for him in the current rotation.