Jump to content


Yo! You're not logged in. Why am I seeing this ad?

Photo

Gagne says 80% of Dodger Teammates used HGH


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
12 replies to this topic

#1 santadevil

  • 953 posts

Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:35 AM

I was surprised this wasn't being discussed on here, because I saw it last night when watching sports highlights.

Anyway, ESPN has the story.

This doesn't surprise me very much. I guess he doesn't name anyone, besides himself (not the first time he admitted it).

#2 abty

  • PipPip
  • 2,149 posts

Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

Can somebody tell me why HGH is not tested for during the season? Besides "We realize it would destroy our game so we pretend to care by enforcing it during spring training".

#3 maufman


  • SoSH Member


  • 13,012 posts

Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:25 PM

Can somebody tell me why HGH is not tested for during the season? Besides "We realize it would destroy our game so we pretend to care by enforcing it during spring training".


Because there's little evidence that HGH enhances performance. Even the anecdotal evidence mostly relates to HGH used in conjunction with steroids.

It is also difficult to detect. Technology to test for HGH become available only recently, and the lack of peer-reviewed science to support the testing methodology has led to great resistance, at least in sports where WADA lacks jurisdiction.

#4 PC Drunken Friar

  • 3,697 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:23 AM

Was Beltre serious when he commented on it and said that it was written in French?

That's just .... weird.

#5 wutang112878


  • SoSH Member


  • 5,671 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:00 AM

Beltre also suggested that Gagne 'name names' which seems even crazier to me, because I am sure if he were to be named he would say that Gagne shouldnt name people.

#6 Average Reds


  • SoSH Member


  • 10,700 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:39 AM

Was Beltre serious when he commented on it and said that it was written in French?

That's just .... weird.


Apparently it is written in French. (Which is Gagne's native language.) So yes, he was serious.

Beltre also suggested that Gagne 'name names' which seems even crazier to me, because I am sure if he were to be named he would say that Gagne shouldnt name people.


I think what Beltre was trying to say is something along the lines of "I'll believe that this is a serious allegation when I see him name names." Because without it, it's just another outlandish claim that most players are using [fill in PED of the moment.]

#7 Judge Mental13


  • designated driver


  • 4,885 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:14 AM

I dunno, generally when a guy admits to using steroids, and then implicates others, the accuser isn't just making it up for a laugh.

#8 Average Reds


  • SoSH Member


  • 10,700 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:53 AM

I dunno, generally when a guy admits to using steroids, and then implicates others, the accuser isn't just making it up for a laugh.


When people name specific players, I agree. But the evidence tends to show that when they make wild claims, they are exaggerating to sell books or because that's just what they do.

But to back up for a second, Gagne hasn't admitted to using steroids. He's talking about HGH. And he hasn't accused anybody - he's said that 80% of his teammates used HGH.

In isolation, this sounds a lot like Curt Schilling saying (back when he was with the Diamondbacks) that 50% of MLB players were using PEDs, and it was getting to the point where you couldn't pat players on the ass because that's where they injected themselves. Of course, when he was called to testify before congress, Schilling refused to back up these statements with anything specific. At the same hearings, Jose Canseco ended up backtracking on all the wild claims in his book and he refused to give any specific information to Congress. (Funny how the threat of perjury charges makes hyperbole disappear.)

Of course, all people really remember from that day was Rafael Palmeiro wagging a finger at the House panel saying that he never used steroids and Sammy Sosa pretenting that he didn't understand English, so Schilling and Canseco tend to get lost.

The sad reality is that when people make wild claims about virtually every player using any kind of PED, you are correct to note that there's usually more than a grain of truth to it. Unfortunately, there also tends to be a lot of exaggeration, which tends to discredit the person making the claim and I think that's where this is headed.

Edit: clarity

Edited by Average Reds, 27 September 2012 - 11:05 AM.


#9 Marciano490


  • Urological Expert


  • 8,903 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:59 AM

If Gagne's talking about 25 guys, I don't think it's too difficult to throw out a percentage. It's not like he's talking about 700-800 major leaguers and trying to hash out an estimate across the entire sport.

As someone pointed out, HGH is much harder to test for, and I believe it was only in the last few years that a half-way decent test was even implemented. Though, I'd disagree with the assertion that its benefits are uncertain.

I wonder what toll HGH takes on the body as opposed to steroids. Seeing dudes I know inject - limping around, 'prop peg-leg' style - I wondered how an athlete could use in season. I don't know any HGH users (that I know of), maybe the shots don't knock you on your ass, as it were, as much.

#10 WayBackVazquez


  • white knight against high school nookie


  • 5,418 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:11 PM

I wonder what toll HGH takes on the body as opposed to steroids. Seeing dudes I know inject - limping around, 'prop peg-leg' style - I wondered how an athlete could use in season. I don't know any HGH users (that I know of), maybe the shots don't knock you on your ass, as it were, as much.


Before testing, it's unlikely that most players would have been injecting short-acting esters like test-prop that require injections daily or every other day, and can cause the kind of soreness you mention. Especially because of the travel schedules, It's much more likely that they would have injected things like test enthanate which can be injected once a week, meaning they'd never need to inject in places like the thigh, and could get away with just alternating butt cheeks.

#11 Marciano490


  • Urological Expert


  • 8,903 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:26 PM

Before testing, it's unlikely that most players would have been injecting short-acting esters like test-prop that require injections daily or every other day, and can cause the kind of soreness you mention. Especially because of the travel schedules, It's much more likely that they would have injected things like test enthanate which can be injected once a week, meaning they'd never need to inject in places like the thigh, and could get away with just alternating butt cheeks.


I thought you'd still have to do test e twice a week, but I guess maybe you can superdose it and do it once a week? Still, I'd think high doses of test e would still cause some soreness, and it's not as though the glutes aren't very involved in running, sliding and crouching.

#12 threecy

  • 1,068 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:38 AM

In isolation, this sounds a lot like Curt Schilling saying (back when he was with the Diamondbacks) that 50% of MLB players were using PEDs, and it was getting to the point where you couldn't pat players on the ass because that's where they injected themselves. Of course, when he was called to testify before congress, Schilling refused to back up these statements with anything specific. At the same hearings, Jose Canseco ended up backtracking on all the wild claims in his book and he refused to give any specific information to Congress. (Funny how the threat of perjury charges makes hyperbole disappear.)


Why would they? Who knows what the MLBPA was telling them? What if they are then asked to name names and they refuse and get charged with obstruction of justice? And what happens if their claim of 50% ends up being more like 30% after a player to player witch hunt? Do they then get tried for perjury? The scenarios sound whacky, but after seeing them try Clemens twice, anything's possible.

#13 Average Reds


  • SoSH Member


  • 10,700 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:55 AM

Why would they? Who knows what the MLBPA was telling them? What if they are then asked to name names and they refuse and get charged with obstruction of justice? And what happens if their claim of 50% ends up being more like 30% after a player to player witch hunt? Do they then get tried for perjury? The scenarios sound whacky, but after seeing them try Clemens twice, anything's possible.


Or, you could just go with the most reasonable explanation, which is that players say things without thinking them through and exaggerate.