64 replies to this topic

[Lose Remerswaal]

http://www.boston.co...x_to_pay_1.html

The Red Sox announced Friday they will honor the 2004 World Series champion team and unveil an all-time Fenway Park team during the final two home games of the regular season against the Tampa Bay Rays on Tuesday, Sept. 25 and Wednesday, Sept. 26.

The all-time Fenway Park team was determined by fan voting, baseball historians, Red Sox staff, and team history consultants. Members of the all-Fenway team will be presented before the regular season home finale on Sept. 26.

I wonder if they are having trouble selling seats to those two games?

Bold move to have a big promotion on Yom Kippur.

[canderson]

Honor the 2004 team? I seriously doubt many of those guys come back for this.

Anything to continue the sell out sham, though.

[Remagellan]

I guess the HWL ownership group wanted to honor their finest moment before they sell the team. Otherwise, how does this make any sense to do this now?

[someoneanywhere]

Honor the 2004 team? I seriously doubt many of those guys come back for this.

Anything to continue the sell out sham, though.

They'll be there: first, because no ballplayer likes to fade away; second, because a sham sellout to some people is a real honor to others -- what better way to say it than to say this team is the greatest in the 100 years of the ballpark (the teams of the teens being dead); and third, because no ballplayer wants to fade away. A few guys like Saturn Nuts will be otherwise occupied. But the Leskanics of the world understand they are immortal for the moment, and they will enjoy their immortality.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Arroyo, Youkilis, Lowe, Manny, Roberts, and Damon won't be there. I'm sure guys like Millar, Wakefield, and Varitek will show, but those guys are always coming back. Would be more relevant to bring back members of other lousy Sox teams. How about a reunion of the 1992 team?

[Soxfan in Fla]

Undoubtedly Pedro will be there.

[scotian1]

I have little faith that the fans have selected a worthy All Fenway team. It will be heavily weighted to the present players and will have very little meaning. I hope I am wrong but doubt it.

[bankshot1]

http://www.boston.co...x_to_pay_1.html





I wonder if they are having trouble selling seats to those two games?

Bold move to have a big promotion on Yom Kippur.

These guys really are atonement deaf but to be consistent they are playing to the pink yarmulke crowd.

[Lose Remerswaal]

They are also honoring long time employees on the field before that game. Other than the Jewish ones, of course.

[YTF]

http://www.boston.co...x_to_pay_1.html





I wonder if they are having trouble selling seats to those two games?

Bold move to have a big promotion on Yom Kippur.

You think that might have anything to do with it? Personally I think it's brilliant, outside the box thinking to celebrate the 8th anniversary of the 2004 Championship season. Why wait for a 10 year celebration? Everybody does that shit and celebrations are what the Sox do better than anyone else. With any luck perhaps a few more former Sox will croak between now and then and we can squeeze in a few more feel good moments that will hopefully sell seats. How's Bob Mongomery's health these days?

[Philip Jeff Frye]

What the heck is an "All-Fenway" team? Other than a couple of guys who's names we recognize but otherwise barely remember like Tris Speaker and Smokey Joe Wood who only played a couple of years in Fenway, how is this list going to differ from an "All Red Sox" team?

[Hendu's Gait]

Are Frank Catalanotto and Dave Stewart going to make an appearance?


Are they firing Valentine by 7:16 Wednesday, right on the field perhaps?

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I guess the HWL ownership group wanted to honor their finest moment before they sell the team. Otherwise, how does this make any sense to do this now?

Because they're willing to try anything to keep interest in the team as high as possible as long as possible? They know they're likely not going to be a serious contender for the division next season, and at some point the sellout streak (sham or not) will end. They know revenue will be down for the next 12-24 months. They know that the brand has taken some pretty heavy hits in the last few years.

So why not throw a little party and remind everyone that 2004 was awesome? It's certainly not going to hurt any.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 15 September 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

They were running the All-Fenway team voting pretty much all season long, so it's not like the ceremony announcing the results wasn't already in the works for months. I think this was going to happen on September 26 whether the team was down by 20 games in the division or up by 10 at that point.

As for honoring the 2004 team, if you think this franchise, whether it's HWL or some other ownership group, isn't going to milk the shit out of the team that "broke the curse" for as long as The 25 are alive, you're delusional.

[scotian1]

I guess that there was more than just fan voting to establish the All Time team so maybe it will be legitimate after all. According to the Boston Globe; "The all-time Fenway Park team was determined by fan voting, baseball historians, Red Sox staff, and team history consultants. Members of the all-Fenway team will be presented before the regular season home finale on Sept. 26."

[sfip]

Even a 5-year anniversary celebration of the '07 team would have made more sense than this.

[bankshot1]

While I admit I did not vote for the All-Fenway Park Team and it may be too late to add my two scents--it smells and leaves one more bad taste to this 100th season of Fenway--I hope John Kiley and Sherm Feller makes the All-Fenway Park Team.

Edited by bankshot1, 16 September 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[Remagellan]

If they really want fans to get excited about celebrating the eighth anniversary of 2004, when Francona is getting ready to come out they can announce that he is returning to manage the team next year.

Then this would make sense.

[Trautwein's Degree]

Even a 5-year anniversary celebration of the '07 team would have made more sense than this.

They could celebrate the 2004 team every night of the week and it would make perfect sense.

[FFCI]

Terrible, TERRIBLE timing.

The best analogy I can think of is if you have a case of vintage, premium wine, that's almost priceless - waiting for the best moment to uncork and enjoy it.

With no plans to use the wine, you have a barbeque which just goes terribly, bad weather, couples fighting, nobody having a good time. The place is a mess, your wine glasses dirty and everybody simply wants to leave and write the party off.

In order to try to keep some of the guests - you decide to open the good stuff. But really, nobody is going to really enjoy it.

I hope the players from the 2004 team say no to coming.

[BoSoxLady]

The "All Fenway" team was scheduled to be honored on the final day of the "regular season" to conclude the 100th anniversary of Fenway. Voting has been ongoing all season.

I wouldn't be surprised if the '04 team received the honor of the "Best Team Evah!" Award and is being honored as a group.

Other than the issue with holding the '04 team celebration on Yom Kippur, I don't see a problem with either of the celebrations.

I understand the conspiracy theories about selling tickets but as I wrote, the preparation for the final game has been in the works for months.

Should the Sox have cancelled their plans because the team sucks? Really?

[YTF]

Killjoy.

[FFCI]

The 8th anniversary of the 2004 team? Really, that was in the works for the 2nd to last game of the season - with members of the team still active in baseball that cannot and will not be there.

There's no way this isn't a last minute half-ass idea. Putting that team on the field at Fenway could be used as such a powerful and motivating event for current and future players. There's no benefit to this at all. No way was it planned.

If the idea isn't a last minute stunt, and it was planned - than it looks like worse planning than the Lackey and Crawford signings and so it will answer the question of who was to blame for those signings (Theo or the "ownership").


The Best Team Evah Award is exactly the kind of fabricated honor that quite frankly is embarrassing to the fans, the organization and to the 2004 team itself.

Heck, that team rallied behind a shot of Jack Daniels prior to the games - now a bud light can wouldn't be available for them after the game.

[FortyFive]

I just saw this in my email and it made me laugh. I get that the last game of the season has been in the works for some time, but this 2004 thing just REEKS of desperation. But it's working - I probably wouldn't have gone to that Tuesday night game and now I won't miss it, even just for the off-chance that Pedro shows up.

[Captaincoop]

Arroyo, Youkilis, Lowe, Manny, Roberts, and Damon won't be there. I'm sure guys like Millar, Wakefield, and Varitek will show, but those guys are always coming back. Would be more relevant to bring back members of other lousy Sox teams. How about a reunion of the 1992 team?

Phil Plantier and Zupcic sharing the Fenway outfield one more time...it would bring a tear to the eye of the most cynical Red Sox fan.

[Marbleheader]

Unless the 2004 team has found the foutain of youth and will be replacing the drek on the current roster, this does nothing for me. Hell, many of the 2004 team: Pedro, Timlin, Embree, Foulke, Tito, Millar, Varitek, Wakefield, Papi, Youkilis, etc were already here for the 100th anniversary game. They should have left this for 2014.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I don't think having members of the '04 team helps from a PR perspective either; it simply magnifies the current issues and makes everything seem shittier. There will be endless press comparing then and now, and where it all went wrong. Who is this good for?

[MentalDisabldLst]

If they really want fans to get excited about celebrating the eighth anniversary of 2004, when Francona is getting ready to come out they can announce that he is returning to manage the team next year.

Then this would make sense.

Are they getting Francona to show? I thought he had a routine of telling HWL to pound sand.

[YTF]

Are they getting Francona to show? I thought he had a routine of telling HWL to pound sand.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I would really hope Francona was selected as the manager of the All-Fenway team. They did have a vote on managers, right? Even if he's not coming for that ceremony or the 2004 thing (by his choice or ownership's), I would hope he's included in the All-Fenway team in some way.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Must have been quite a scene at Fenway tonight.

The players from 2004 who attended were: Keith Foulke, Nomar Garciaparra, Adam Hyzdu, Pedro Martinez, Dave McCarty, Kevin Millar, Joe Nelson, Trot Nixon, David Ortiz, Phil Seibel, Jason Shiell, Mike Timlin, Jason Varitek, Tim Wakefield, Alan Embree.

[Noah]

Was Schilling too cool for this?

Also, Jason Shiell was not on that team.

Edited by Noah, 25 September 2012 - 09:35 PM.

[mabrowndog]

Also, Jason Shiell was not on that team.

He never played, but he was on the 40-man roster. Pitched (poorly) in spring training and was obviously hurt. By mid-March he'd been shut down with elbow tendinitis. Went on the 15-day DL when the team broke camp and tried to work through his issues in Fort Myers, but had Tommy John surgery in late May, missing all of '04 and '05.

It'd definitely ridiculous that he was asked back for this, and surprising he didn't feel awkward about accepting the invitation.

[E5 Yaz]

It'd definitely ridiculous that he was asked back for this, and surprising he didn't feel awkward about accepting the invitation.

Giving out the rings was one thing; but at times like these, it should just be the guys who were on the active roster in the postseason.

I mean, seeing Nomar there was beyond odd.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Was Schilling too cool for this?

Apparently he had ESPN obligations and couldn't make it.

Shiell, Seibel, and Hyzdu were all awkward choices for inclusion. At least Nomar was a superstar for the team before he departed.

Good to see Tito, Millsy, Papa Jack, and Dave Wallace, too.

[BoSox Rule]

Giving out the rings was one thing; but at times like these, it should just be the guys who were on the active roster in the postseason.

I mean, seeing Nomar there was beyond odd.

Which is why you don't do 8 year anniversaries to create buzz. This whole season sucks enough as is and they still managed to water down anniversaries for year 10, 15, etc.

[mabrowndog]

Sox and Dawgs posted clips of Millar & Pedro's visit to the NESN booth. I suggest watching them ASAP before the MLB copyright police intervene.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Apparently he had ESPN obligations and couldn't make it.

Shiell, Seibel, and Hyzdu were all awkward choices for inclusion. At least Nomar was a superstar for the team before he departed.

Good to see Tito, Millsy, Papa Jack, and Dave Wallace, too.

Lynn Jones as well.

[brs3]

They could celebrate the 2004 team every night of the week and it would make perfect sense.

This is my view, and I'm surprised people are so upset about an 8th anniversary celebration during the season long 100th anniversary of Fenway celebration. I'm even more surprised people think it's odd that Nomar, Shiell, Siebel, and Hyzdu were invited. Did you forget the 2004 parade, or the ring ceremony? They invited everybody ever, and gave rings to everybody. Only inviting key guys back wouldn't fit with the 2004 celebrations at all.

There's no such thing as milking the 2004 for as much as it is worth, because watching highlights of 2004 will never get old. They could start selling vintage jerseys of the '04 team and I'd consider buying one. It was the golden era of the Boston Red Sox, why would I want to see less of that?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

This is my view, and I'm surprised people are so upset about an 8th anniversary celebration during the season long 100th anniversary of Fenway celebration. I'm even more surprised people think it's odd that Nomar, Shiell, Siebel, and Hyzdu were invited. Did you forget the 2004 parade, or the ring ceremony? They invited everybody ever, and gave rings to everybody. Only inviting key guys back wouldn't fit with the 2004 celebrations at all.

There's no such thing as milking the 2004 for as much as it is worth, because watching highlights of 2004 will never get old. They could start selling vintage jerseys of the '04 team and I'd consider buying one. It was the golden era of the Boston Red Sox, why would I want to see less of that?

You make good points, but what I think strikes some as incongruous is that they are parading these celebrations out at the tail end of the worst, most depressing, and more embarrassing Red Sox season in 15 years. It might be considered cynical for the ownership to be doing this now, to attempt to distract fans from the utter cluster this season has become.

And does anyone think ownership will pass up the opportunity to celebrate these guys again in 2014, for the 10 year anniversary? Or 2019? 2024? Etc.

[SeanBerry]

15 years is kind SJH. 1997 wasn't as bad as this. Maybe the worst since 1994 because of the strike? If not, then 1992.

8 year anniversaries are stupid. It makes what could have been a celebration in a couple years that much more "less than". Why not wait the 2 years? Oh that's right... the team is a joke and no one cares anymore this year so they need any press they can muster.

The All Fenway Team that BSL talked about earlier makes sense. This is lame.

Edited by SeanBerry, 26 September 2012 - 08:55 AM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Well Berry, in 1997 you had Jimy giving Steve Avery a start near the end of the year over the GM's wishes in order to kick in a $3 million+ bonus. That was 2012-esque of them.

[brs3]

You make good points, but what I think strikes some as incongruous is that they are parading these celebrations out at the tail end of the worst, most depressing, and more embarrassing Red Sox season in 15 years. It might be considered cynical for the ownership to be doing this now, to attempt to distract fans from the utter cluster this season has become.

And does anyone think ownership will pass up the opportunity to celebrate these guys again in 2014, for the 10 year anniversary? Or 2019? 2024? Etc.

Honestly, I look at them parading out the 2004 team as a mea culpa. They know the season sucked, we know the season sucked, so why don't we take a minute and remember what this ownership did before? Sure, we see Pedro, Millar, Tek, and Wake with regularity, but Foulke, Timlin, Embree? We'd kill for those guys again.

As far as how bad the team is, it harkens back to 2001 for me. Seems like we haven't seen as much bickering between the team/manager/management since then. 1997 was bad, but they didn't really have any expectations of success.

[SeanBerry]

Well Berry, in 1997 you had Jimy giving Steve Avery a start near the end of the year over the GM's wishes in order to kick in a $3 million+ bonus. That was 2012-esque of them.

But you also had Nomar and Mo hitting a shitton of home runs and it was fun to watch. And they were a much better team (anywhere from 2-9 wins more).

The 2001 comps make no sense to me. That team was entertaining and good until the end of July anyway. They just had an incredible shitty 2 months but even so, they still finished with a winning season.

If this 2012 team can't go 4-3, they will lose 9 games and unless you are 46 years or older, you have never seen that before. Fucking shame.

[Seabass177]

If I were Sandra Bullock, I would have slept with Pedro by now.

"Sandra Bullock" RT @realgregstrait#askpedro if you had 1 celebrity you had to pick to go on a boat cruise on, who would it be?

For context:

In 2001, the Boston Herald’s Jeff Horrigan conducted the following interview with Pedro Martinez for Sports Illustrated For Kids.
SI For Kids: What’s your favorite color?
Pedro Martinez: Green
SIFK: Who is your favorite movie star?
Pedro: Sandra Bullock.
SIFK: What is your secret life ambition?
Pedro: I would like to fuck Sandra Bullock.
Horrigan explained that likely wasn’t an appropriate response for a children’s magazine and asked the question again. Martinez dutifully amended his answer: “I would like to sleep with Sandra Bullock.”

God, I miss that man.

[Vinho Tinto]

I realize Manny Ramirez is a polarizing figure, but I'm pretty shocked he didn't make the team.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I realize Manny Ramirez is a polarizing figure, but I'm pretty shocked he didn't make the team.

They only named three players per position, and there were three Hall of Fame LF named ahead of him. Tough to argue against any of them being a poor choice. Maybe if he was on better terms, they might have named more than one DH in order to get him in. After all, they added the All-Fenway pinch runner to shoehorn Dave Roberts in...an exception could have been made for Manny if they wanted to do it.

Edited by Red(s)HawksFan, 26 September 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[mclusky]

I really can't believe people are complaining about this. Well, I guess I can believe it, but it still sucks.

Eight years is too soon? The hell it is. They should have a ceremony for these guys every year. As often as they'll come, at least.

[mabrowndog]

I realize Manny Ramirez is a polarizing figure, but I'm pretty shocked he didn't make the team.

To me, the most surprising omission was Tris Speaker.

Here's the full team per Sox PR release:

Starting Lineup
C: Carlton Fisk*
1B: Jimmie Foxx**
2B: Dustin Pedroia*
3B: Wade Boggs
SS: Nomar Garciaparra*
LF: Ted Williams**
CF: Fred Lynn*
RF: Dwight Evans*
RHP: Pedro Martinez*
LHP: Lefty Grove**
Closer: Jonathan Papelbon
DH: David Ortiz*
PR: Dave Roberts
PH: Bernie Carbo*
Manager: Terry Francona

First reserves
C: Jason Varitek*
1B: Mo Vaughn
2B: Bobby Doerr
3B: Mike Lowell
SS: Johnny Pesky**
LF: Carl Yastrzemski*
CF: Dom DiMaggio**
RF: Trot Nixon*
Pitcher: Roger Clemens*
Pitcher: Luis Tiant*
Pitcher: Tim Wakefield*
Pitcher: Dennis Eckersley*
Pitcher: Dick Radatz**
Manager: Joe Cronin**

Second reserves
C: Rich Gedman*
1B: George Scott
2B: Jerry Remy*
3B: Frank Malzone*
SS: Rico Petrocelli*
LF: Jim Rice*
CF: Reggie Smith*
RF: Tony Conigliaro**
Pitcher: Babe Ruth**
Pitcher: Smoky Joe Wood**
Pitcher: Curt Schilling
Pitcher: Bill Lee*
Pitcher: Jim Lonborg*
Manager: Dick Williams **

*Indicates players in attendance at Wednesday’s ceremony
**Indicates players who are deceased

Edited by mabrowndog, 26 September 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[One Red Seat]

I know he can't unseat Ted Williams but Yaz should have been named 1st team DH and moved Papi to 2nd team.