289 replies to this topic

[RedOctober3829]

Here's what I think the 53-man roster will look like.

QB(3)
Tom Brady
Ryan Mallett
Brian Hoyer

RB(5)
Steven Ridley
Shane Vereen
Danny Woodhead
Brandon Bolden
Jeff Demps

WR(5)
Brandon Lloyd
Wes Welker
Deion Branch
Julian Edelman
Matthew Slater

TE(3)
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Daniel Fells

OL(9)
Nate Solder
Logan Mankins
Dan Connolly
Brian Waters
Sebastian Vollmer
Marcus Cannon
Nick McDonald
Donald Thomas
Dan Koppen

DL(10)
Vince Wilfork
Kyle Love
Ron Brace
Brandon Deadrick
Chandler Jones
Rob Ninkovich
Jermaine Cunningham
Trevor Scott
Jake Bequette
Justin Francis

LB(6)
Jerod Mayo
Brandon Spikes
Dont'e Hightower
Bobby Carpenter
Jeff Tarpinian
Niko Koutivides

DB(9)
Devin McCourty
Kyle Arrington
Ras-I Dowling
Marquis Cole
Sterling Moore
Patrick Chung
Tavon Wilson
Steve Gregory
Nate Ebner

Specialists(3)
Stephen Gostowski
Zoltan Mesko
Danny Aiken

[epraz]

We'll know on Friday. It is what it is.

[fieldslikebuckner]

Good list. However I think Dennard makes it over a 10th DL. I could see Francis cut and signed to practice squad or if they are really happy with his development, Scott cut. Regardless, it seems Belichick likes to keep a couple spots fungible each week so whoever the last two or three guys on the roster will likely get shuffled around each week.

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I agree that you've got a pretty good list there. But man, they have left themselves thin at WR

WR(5)
Brandon Lloyd
Wes Welker
Deion Branch
Julian Edelman
Matthew Slater

The TEs mitigate this quite a bit, but unless you think Edelman is more then a slot receiver then we are one twisted ankle away from Matt Slate getting significant reps at WR. This makes me think there may be a hand shake deal with Gaffney to bring him back after week 1.

[Super Nomario]

I agree that you've got a pretty good list there. But man, they have left themselves thin at WR

The TEs mitigate this quite a bit, but unless you think Edelman is more then a slot receiver then we are one twisted ankle away from Matt Slate getting significant reps at WR. This makes me think there may be a hand shake deal with Gaffney to bring him back after week 1.

Edelman has played some wideout in the past, and I think he's a lot more likely to get snaps there than Slater is. The Pats didn't run many 3- or 4- WR sets last year, so there aren't a ton of snaps to go around anyway.

[Number45forever]

Exactly right...the Pats of last year essentially ran a two WR offense with those two TEs rarely leaving the field. Five WRs seems thin, but really that's all right with the versatility of the TEs and the pass catching ability of the RBs.

I really hope you're right about Waters coming back though, I'm legitimtely terrified of this offensive line based on how they've looked in preseason.

[tims4wins]

According to Reiss, Waters' locker is still there, so there is reason to be hopeful

[lexrageorge]

I think if Waters is going to come out of his "retirement", he would need to do that today. It's one thing to miss training camp; but the next week of practices are critical to establishing cohesion on the line. They can't move September 9th back a couple of days.

As for Dennard, it's more likely he ends up on IR than getting cut outright.

[tims4wins]

I think if Waters is going to come out of his "retirement", he would need to do that today. It's one thing to miss training camp; but the next week of practices are critical to establishing cohesion on the line. They can't move September 9th back a couple of days.

Disagree here. Last year, he signed on September 4, exactly 1 week before the first game. That was with zero prior experience in the Patriots system. He definitely won't sign before the final cut-downs tomorrow night. If he comes back, it will happen this weekend or on Monday.

Edited by tims4wins, 30 August 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[dynomite]

Exactly right...the Pats of last year essentially ran a two WR offense with those two TEs rarely leaving the field.

I would be shocked if least 1 of Gaffney/Stallworth didn't return at some point this season.

As for Gaffney and Stallworth, well, don’t rule out a return. Gaffney hadn’t practiced since injuring his hip (likely a tweaked muscle, based on the way he pulled up while running a route) two weeks ago. It’s conceivable Gaffney could return when he’s healthy enough to resume his on-field work. After all, he had a pretty good start to training camp, and Tom Brady has liked him for years. Stallworth was having a good camp, too, though he was still behind Deion Branch and Gaffney (before the injury) on the depth chart. It’s possible Stallworth could return later, as well.

http://www.bostonher...position=recent

[steveluck7]

Any word on Niko's injury from last night? If he's gone, do they add another LB or fill in somewhere else?

Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see Moore let go

[tims4wins]

Any word on Niko's injury from last night? If he's gone, do they add another LB or fill in somewhere else?

Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see Moore let go

http://espn.go.com/b...ame-locker-room

1. Linebacker Niko Koutouvides was in the locker room and did not appear to be showing any ill effects from an apparent wrist/arm injury that caused him to leave the game in the third quarter. Typically players who suffered any significant injuries are not spotted in postgame locker room periods, so this could be a positive sign for the veteran linebacker who could be in line for a roster spot.

[Mystic Merlin]

Waters is gonna come back. Consider:

1.) All sourced reports we've seen from local beat writers - well, from post-Super Bowl through mini-camps at least - has indicated he will play this year. It's been radio silence since then, and thus speculation, but I have not seen any sourced report/blurb to the contrary.
2.) He has missed every meeting/practice/walkthrough/scrimmage/game, but has not been fined by the Patriots.
3.) His locker remains intact.
4.) When contacted a few weeks ago, Waters told the reporter to ask Belichick any questions re. his status.
5.) Given last year's off-the-bus/on-the-field/to-the-Pro-Bowl transition, BB and Co. are likely unconcerned about his missing camp. They know he can do it.

I think it's been kept on the down-low largely because the team doesn't want to set a clear precedent that future veterans to point to (i.e., 'Why can't I get that?'). It's a special case.

[collings94]

I love Slater as a special teams player, but he isn't cut out to be a WR in the NFL. I would have to think that Gaffney or Stallworth, but probably Gaffney will be on the roster one way or another.

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Waters is gonna come back. Consider:

1.) All sourced reports we've seen from local beat writers - well, from post-Super Bowl through mini-camps at least - has indicated he will play this year. It's been radio silence since then, and thus speculation, but I have not seen any sourced report/blurb to the contrary.
2.) He has missed every meeting/practice/walkthrough/scrimmage/game, but has not been fined by the Patriots.
3.) His locker remains intact.
4.) When contacted a few weeks ago, Waters told the reporter to ask Belichick any questions re. his status.
5.) Given last year's off-the-bus/on-the-field/to-the-Pro-Bowl transition, BB and Co. are likely unconcerned about his missing camp. They know he can do it.

Bingo.

I will be shocked if Waters doesn't come back.

[Super Nomario]

When it comes to the backup spots, I think you have to look at special teams contributions:
http://espn.go.com/b...ial-teams-value
http://espn.go.com/b...n-special-teams

This might get Brandon Bolden a spot; he has to be making special teams contributions to make the team as a fourth or fifth RB. I think it bodes ill for Sterling Moore and Alfonzo Dennard; Malcolm Williams and Marquice Cole are much bigger special teams factors. Can the Pats afford to take a pure cover guy who makes no ST contribution over a guy like Ebner, Ihedigbo, or Sergio Brown who are good ST players? I think Tarpinian's contributions make him safe. I'm also intrigued by Jesse Holley playing on two ST units yesterday. If the Pats are going to take a fifth WR (not counting Slater), it'd likely be a guy making contributions on STs.

My predictions:
QB (3): Brady, Hoyer, Mallett
RB (4): Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen, Demps
WR (5): Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Edelman, Slater
TE (3): Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells
OT (3): Solder, Vollmer, Cannon
C/G (6): Mankins, Connolly, Waters, Koppen, Wendell, McDonald
DL (5): Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Brace, Francis
DE/OLB (5): Jones, Ninkovich, Scott, Cunningham, Bequette
LB (6): Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Carpenter, Tarpinian, White
CB (5): McCourty, Arrington, Dowling, Cole, Williams
S (5): Chung, Gregory, Wilson, Ebner, Brown
ST (3): Gostkowski, Mesko, Aiken

Toughest cuts: Branden Bolden, Donald Thomas, Sterling Moore, James Ihedigbo, Alfonzo Dennard, Niko Koutouvides

[mwonow]

Looks like there's a lot more agreement than not. Here's my guess:

QB (3): Brady, Hoyer, Mallett
RB (5): Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead, Bolden, Demps (with Bolden and Demps needing to show something during the first 1/4 of the season to stick around)
WR (5): Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Edelman, Slater (with Gaffney and maybe Stallworth coming back during the season)
TE (3): Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells
OT (3): Solder, Vollmer, Cannon
C/G (5): Mankins, Connolly, Thomas, Wendell, McDonald (with one of Thomas or McDonald maybe on shaky ground if Waters returns - though the league-wide paucity of OL talent might keep them all safe)
DL (4): Wilfork, Love, Brace, Francis (Deaderick is possible instead of Francis, but I'm rooting for the rook)
DE/OLB (5): Jones, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Scott, Bequette (with Scott a possible cut if they're really sold on Bequette - this is one more than they really need at DE, and someone will have to go if Waters returns)
LB (6): Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Carpenter, Tarpinian, Koutouvides
CB (6): McCourty, Arrington, Dowling, Moore, Cole, Williams (Dennard to IR)
S (5): Chung, Gregory, Wilson, Ebner, Ihedigbo
ST (3): Gostkowski, Mesko, Aiken

[5dice]

Other than keeping playbook trade secrets from competitive teams, is there any reason for Hoyer to remain on this team facing a roster crunch?
Has anything about his play versus that of improving urban redneck Ryan Mallett pointed to the necessity of keeping him?
As has been discussed, if Brady goes down with something serious at this point--all bets are off anyway--why not let Mallet get the experience?

[MainerInExile]

Here's what I think the 53-man roster will look like.
...

Good list, I think, but 9 OL is a lot. The Pats have often carried only 7. I think they'll carry an extra this year because of the injuries and such, but I would be surprised to see them carry two extra. I'd drop off Koppen and swap in Ihedigbo.

[phragle]

Has Gaffney worked out for any teams since? Stallworth has, but you'd think Gaffney would be a more desirable player.

For the record I think Lloyd, Welker, Branch, and Edelman is too thin.

[kenneycb]

My guess is he's still hurt or not at 100%.

[MainerInExile]

Has Gaffney worked out for any teams since? Stallworth has, but you'd think Gaffney would be a more desirable player.

For the record I think Lloyd, Welker, Branch, and Edelman is too thin.

Gaffney was hurt.

[lexrageorge]

Other than keeping playbook trade secrets from competitive teams, is there any reason for Hoyer to remain on this team facing a roster crunch?
Has anything about his play versus that of improving urban redneck Ryan Mallett pointed to the necessity of keeping him?
As has been discussed, if Brady goes down with something serious at this point--all bets are off anyway--why not let Mallet get the experience?

Hoyer is more familiar with the offense. If Brady were to miss 2 to 4 games (while that hasn't happened, it's always a possibility), my guess is that the team feels more comfortable with Hoyer as the short term sub than Mallett. If Brady were to go down with something serious, then they'll want the 2 backups anyway.

[phragle]

My guess is he's still hurt or not at 100%.

Gaffney was hurt.

Oh yeah, right.

[NortheasternPJ]

Am I the only one thinking that Bolden doesn't make the cut?

[ShaneTrot]

Am I the only one thinking that Bolden doesn't make the cut?

I was thinking this myself. He is a perfect candidate for the practice squad and if they cut him, running backs are a dime a dozen (unless you are Detroit).

[soxfan121]

Waters is gonna come back. Consider:

1.) All sourced reports we've seen from local beat writers - well, from post-Super Bowl through mini-camps at least - has indicated he will play this year. It's been radio silence since then, and thus speculation, but I have not seen any sourced report/blurb to the contrary.
2.) He has missed every meeting/practice/walkthrough/scrimmage/game, but has not been fined by the Patriots.
3.) His locker remains intact.
4.) When contacted a few weeks ago, Waters told the reporter to ask Belichick any questions re. his status.
5.) Given last year's off-the-bus/on-the-field/to-the-Pro-Bowl transition, BB and Co. are likely unconcerned about his missing camp. They know he can do it.

I think it's been kept on the down-low largely because the team doesn't want to set a clear precedent that future veterans to point to (i.e., 'Why can't I get that?'). It's a special case.

Agreed - and because he's going directly to Canton after he retires, he is the most special of cases - the late-career professional with enough All-Pro awards to dictate terms. Because he's an OL Waters isn't known as well as even the elite LT of the past 15-20 years but he's one of the starting Guards on the Team of the Decade.

[collings94]

Agreed - and because he's going directly to Canton after he retires, he is the most special of cases - the late-career professional with enough All-Pro awards to dictate terms. Because he's an OL Waters isn't known as well as even the elite LT of the past 15-20 years but he's one of the starting Guards on the Team of the Decade.

Waters is great, part of that amazing KC line during the 2000's. Faneca and Hutchinson probably have him beat for the starting spots though.

[RedOctober3829]

Bedard

While the Patriots would like Brian Waters back, I'm no longer quite as optimistic that will happen. Back to 50-50 for me.

https://twitter.com/...279538741530624

I used to be around 75-80% he would walk through the door. Not sure if it's decided by cutdown. I'll be taking him off my roster in interim

https://twitter.com/...280201177325568

I'm officially worried now about this offensive line if he doesn't come back.

Edited by RedOctober3829, 30 August 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[tims4wins]

Again, he signed AFTER cut down day last year, I won't be worried until Monday afternoon.

[RedOctober3829]

Again, he signed AFTER cut down day last year, I won't be worried until Monday afternoon.

I understand that, but Bedard was the guy that was championing the "don't worry, he's coming back. Nothing to see here" talk.

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

I'm officially worried now about this offensive line if he doesn't come back.

What do they do if he doesn't come back? Koppen at Center and Connolly at Guard?

Edit - Bedard just answered the question. Said he thinks they split time at Center between Wendell/Koppen with Connolly playing Guard.

That takes away a ton of flexibility along with making them a weaker line. Come back Brian...

Edited by BannedbyNYYFans.com, 30 August 2012 - 04:15 PM.

[tims4wins]

Or Connolly at center and McDonald at guard

edit: or possibly a Wendell/Connolly combo

Edited by tims4wins, 30 August 2012 - 04:15 PM.

[RedOctober3829]

What do they do if he doesn't come back? Koppen at Center and Connolly at Guard?

That's what I think will happen. If Ryan Wendell makes the team, he's an option at center too.

[SoxScout]

The ESPN guys did their final guess.

I'm with Reiss, Dennard and Cole. The other two have Cole and Moore. He also went against the grain with Sergio Brown over Ihedigbo.

[gammoseditor]

Reiss makes a good point when saying why he thinks Brown over Ihedigbo.

The surprising emergence of Ebner as a viable defensive option opens up a special teams-only spot for Brown, whose strong effort on fourth down in the preseason finale caught the eye.

[soxfan121]

QB (2): Brady, Mallett - Hoyer traded for a conditional draft pick

RB (4): Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen, Demps

WR (6): Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Edelman, Slater, Holley (inactive and then cut after Week 1 to make room for Gaffney - signed to the PS)

TE (3): Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells

OL (9): Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Mankins, Connolly, Waters, Koppen, Wendell, McDonald

DL (5): Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Brace, Francis

DE/OLB (5): Jones, Ninkovich, Scott, Cunningham, Bequette

LB (5): Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Tarpinian, White

CB (6): McCourty, Arrington, Dowling, Cole, Williams, Dennard

S (5): Chung, Gregory, Wilson, Ebner, Brown

ST (3): Gostkowski, Mesko, Aiken

[bradmahn]

They held on to 10 DL last season, and I think they will this year, too. Four DEs is just too shallow, especially if they're expecting one of them (Cunningham) to line up as an interior rusher in passing situations. In the event of an injury, five might not be enough, either... so I think they're going to keep Wilfork, Love, Brace, Deaderick, Jones, Nink, Cunningham, Scott, Francis, and Bequette.

After the top group of DBs (I'd argue Arrington, Chung, Dowling, Gregory, McCourty, Wilson, and, given the STs ability/promise on defense/upside of a recent pick, Ebner), I'd give three spots to the group of Moore, Dennard, Cole, Sergio Brown, Ihedigbo, or Williams. I'm leaning toward Moore, Dennard, and Cole. ESPNBoston is giving spots to Brown or Ihedigbo for their ST play, and, in the case of Ihedigbo, his ability to play SS or dimeback. That ability is poor enough I don't think they keep him on. The starting cornerbacks are ST players, too, which might allow for Dennard to pave his way onto the roster even though he doesn't have much (if any) experience on fourth down.

[bradmahn]

QB (2): Brady, Mallett - Hoyer traded for a conditional draft pick

RB (4): Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen, Demps

WR (6): Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Edelman, Slater, Holley (inactive and then cut after Week 1 to make room for Gaffney - signed to the PS)

TE (3): Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells

OL (9): Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Mankins, Connolly, Waters, Koppen, Wendell, McDonald

DL (5): Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Brace, Francis

DE/OLB (5): Jones, Ninkovich, Scott, Cunningham, Bequette

LB (5): Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Tarpinian, White

CB (6): McCourty, Arrington, Dowling, Cole, Williams, Dennard

S (5): Chung, Gregory, Wilson, Ebner, Brown

ST (3): Gostkowski, Mesko, Aiken

I like your work, though I'd probably keep Hoyer, Bolden, and Carpenter, and nix Brown, White, and Koppen. I don't think I could designate seven spots to what appear to be strictly special teamers (Gost, Mesko, Aiken, Brown, White, Williams, and Slater).

[MainerInExile]

I was thinking this myself. He is a perfect candidate for the practice squad and if they cut him, running backs are a dime a dozen (unless you are Detroit).

I disagree. They've tried him at FB, and he's been playing special teams. That shows they've been making an effort to carve out a role for him that keeps him on the roster.

[Shelterdog]

I don't think I could designate seven spots to what appear to be strictly special teamers (Gost, Mesko, Aiken, Brown, White, Williams, and Slater).

Maybe you couldn't but BB usually does.

[dcdrew10]

QB (2): Brady, Mallett - Hoyer traded for a conditional draft pick

RB (4): Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen, Demps

WR (6): Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Edelman, Slater, Holley (inactive and then cut after Week 1 to make room for Gaffney - signed to the PS)

TE (3): Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells

OL (9): Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Mankins, Connolly, Waters, Koppen, Wendell, McDonald

DL (5): Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Brace, Francis

DE/OLB (5): Jones, Ninkovich, Scott, Cunningham, Bequette

LB (5): Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Tarpinian, White

CB (6): McCourty, Arrington, Dowling, Cole, Williams, Dennard

S (5): Chung, Gregory, Wilson, Ebner, Brown

ST (3): Gostkowski, Mesko, Aiken

While I don't think they'll keep Koppen if Waters is back (Koppen isn't going to start over Connolly and therefore a luxury) my only real quibble with your list is cutting Carpenter. Carpenter is the first LB off the bench, especially since Fletcher is gone for the season.

[SidelineCameras]

All the talk of cutting/trading/not keeping Hoyer across a few threads is looney bananas. Mallet is nowhere near ready to take over the team in case of a Brady injury. The thinking that "If Brady goes, the season's done anyway" is total nonsense - of course their chances of winning playoff games plummets, but those chances remain much higher with Hoyer than Mallett in 2012.

And as someone pointed out in another thread, if Brady does go down, even if Mallet is the #2 you still need a backup at that point.

[bakahump]

Wasnt Cannon a G in college who "projected to be able to play Tackle"?

He obviously hasnt covered himself in glory at T thus far. What about him at guard....if he needs to move out to tackle (say an implausible injury to Vollmer...) then you bring in Koppen or Connolly to fill out the interior while he moves out to T. *shudder

I also think back to "potentially good young tackles" who have moved inside to G and had passable careers. (Hello Mr. Manderich)

Neither here nor there I guess....as we havent seen him at G in the preseason....but It at least seems plausible and adds some interior depth.

[Dernells Casket n Flagon]

Wasnt Cannon a G in college who "projected to be able to play Tackle"?

He obviously hasnt covered himself in glory at T thus far. What about him at guard....if he needs to move out to tackle (say an implausible injury to Vollmer...) then you bring in Koppen or Connolly to fill out the interior while he moves out to T. *shudder

I also think back to "potentially good young tackles" who have moved inside to G and had passable careers. (Hello Mr. Manderich)

Neither here nor there I guess....as we havent seen him at G in the preseason....but It at least seems plausible and adds some interior depth.

Why not take the 30 seconds to look this up before typing out something that has zero relevance when what you think is wrong?

http://en.wikipedia....i/Marcus_Cannon "Marcus Darell Cannon (born May 6, 1988) is an American footballoffensive tackle with the New England Patriots of the National Football League. Prior to the 2011 NFL Draft, Cannon was considered one of the top offensive guard prospects;^[1] the Patriots selected Cannon in the fifth round with the 138th pick. He played college football at Texas Christian University, where he played offensive tackle."

[RedOctober3829]

Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl
Teams are feverishly trying to trade low-end players on the roster before waiving/cutting them. That's why there are no announcements yet.

[steveluck7]

What are the odds that Bill cuts it down to 52 (or IRs one of the 53) then scoops someone up from another team?

Edited by steveluck7, 31 August 2012 - 09:01 AM.

[ShaneTrot]

Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl
Teams are feverishly trying to trade low-end players on the roster before waiving/cutting them. That's why there are no announcements yet.

I would be surprised if many trades happen. NE could not do it last year and virtually all of their final cuts were claimed by other teams. Why trade a pick if you are a lousy team when you may get the player for free on the waiver wire?

[RedOctober3829]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk
Note: Any player placed on IR today is not eligible for the new IR procedures where the player can return later in the season

Very interesting. They are trying to prevent someone stashing a player on IR at the last minute, but why would that be? The rule is there for that purpose I'd think.

[steveluck7]

Very interesting. They are trying to prevent someone stashing a player on IR at the last minute, but why would that be? The rule is there for that purpose I'd think.

it's probably their attempt to make it a legitimate injury relief situation as opposed to a de-facto 54th roster spot for 6+ weeks